[Putin Closes]

The difference between 5'8-6' is quite neglible in terms of multiples amount of attraction. Online dating could be a challenge for those in the Anglosphere. I find those who are in the 6'2-6'3 range consistently do well if they have game, seems to be the ideal height.

The reverse applies if you are 5'6 and shorter, its just much harder. Perhaps move to Asia, like the Philippines where the guys here are like 5'5.

[Silva]

I'm around 5'8, and I've had bouts of insecurities about my height. My solution - I started to wear elevator shoes or insert height increasing insoles. This easily adds up to 4 inches to my height, boosting me from 5'8 to 6'0.

Girls wear 5 inch heels, push up bras, make up, fake hair, fake nails, fake skin...why shouldn't I boost my height also?

[Lime]

Men (and thus this forum) judge height linearly:

"Anecdotal, correlational, and experi-mental data indicate that when evaluating other men, particu-larly for positions of power and leadership, men operate on alinear principle: the taller-the-better (cf. Stogdill, 1948)."

Women don't judge height linearly:

"A man's height does make a dif-ference, but it was men of medium height whom the women per-ceived to be most attractive, most desirable as dates, most like-able, and to possess more positive qualities than either shorteror taller men (Graziano et al., 1978)."

Conclusion: a lot of men do project their linear height-thinking on women, while women don't see male height so linearly

Do people on here have more stories about 5'6 or 5'7 men that are killing it with the ladies? Please share these stories as they are a great help for shorter men.

[JuiceDC]

I'm 5' 7". Have definitely gotten passed over for taller guys but have also dated taller women. Social circle game and confidence are key. The times I did get a taller girl chemistry was on my side. One girlfriend I met at my homegirls house party. Everyone there was a friend of at least 10 years so social proof was high. I think cold approach, especially with people around, is going uphill but you won't know unless you try ;-)

[Balkan]

(07-12-2016 07:08 PM)Silva Wrote:  

I'm around 5'8, and I've had bouts of insecurities about my height. My solution - I started to wear elevator shoes or insert height increasing insoles. This easily adds up to 4 inches to my height, boosting me from 5'8 to 6'0.

Girls wear 5 inch heels, push up bras, make up, fake hair, fake nails, fake skin...why shouldn't I boost my height also?

Because it's a band aid solution to a deeper problem. Maybe it'll start with not clubbing without the elevator shoes, then it might transition into not being seen in public without the elevator shoes, and perhaps it'll reach its final form of not walking anywhere, even in private, without the elevator shoes. This crutch will become deeply intertwined with your ego. True confidence is grounded in acceptance. Most guys on here aren't models and we know our shortcomings. I reckon girls are more attracted to a guy shamelessly owning something (not wearing elevator shoes) vs a guy covering up his shortcomings. There's no acceptance wearing elevator shoes and although you might get more IOI's, there will always be a level of internal tension. It's a form of lying.

I'd feel like shit if I pulled a keeper and she noticed your real height later on, probably wasn't too bothered by it (post above-girls don't perceive height linearly) but since you deceived her, assuming she has some self-worth, she'll let you go. Good book that is relevant to this is Lying by Sam Harris.

Just to be a hypocrite. Of course wear boots out at night, but buying specific shoes that uncannily increase height (>2in) is a no go.

[Kapostatus13]

Height would only be a problem if your competitor's in the game are taller than you. If majority of men are taller than you, unfortunately your at a disadvantage. Women do the choosing in the game and height is one of the first thing they look at. You can compensate with self confidence, charima, success, fashion sense, hairstyle, bodybuilding and sexual technique/performance. Also women know with a taller man your probably gonna get a bigger dick as well. You can compensate that with a penis pump - google bathmate.

The truth is your probably going to keep dating shorter girls and maybe get women the same height as you. What will determine success with taller womenbis your location. Check the average height of men of countries with attractive women. Find one or a few you can compete in and learn the language. Look at south america, and South east asia.

[TonySandos]

(07-12-2016 07:08 PM)Silva Wrote:  

I'm around 5'8, and I've had bouts of insecurities about my height. My solution - I started to wear elevator shoes or insert height increasing insoles. This easily adds up to 4 inches to my height, boosting me from 5'8 to 6'0.

Girls wear 5 inch heels, push up bras, make up, fake hair, fake nails, fake skin...why shouldn't I boost my height also?

(07-23-2016 07:13 PM)Kapostatus13 Wrote:  

Also women know with a taller man your probably gonna get a bigger dick as well. You can compensate that with a penis pump - google bathmate.

The truth is your probably going to keep dating shorter girls and maybe get women the same height as you.

This poor topic that constantly comes up as a new thread. Your questions and defeats have been answered.

Anyway, I'm 5'4" and:

-the first woman I had a serious relationship with was 5'11"
-the most attractive woman I ever dated was 5'7"
-places I've pulled: clubs, online, classes, parties, traffic(not even while driving), convenience stores, shopping malls, (haven't tried grocery game yet)
-I had a lot of prospects at college. Women would hit on me
-the mother of my child is 3 inches taller than me
-I can get dates online
-I don't wear platform shoes, am not wealthy or particularly muscular most of the time(though this helps all of us)
-My social circle is always small and often non-existent
-

Your mindset, looks or personality are failing most of you.

And to address the scientific angle;
anthropologist know that people started to lose height when the agrarian civilizations started to dominate. There was no more need to chase prey. So all the self-defeatist Darwinian thinking about your genes being inferior to the ubermensch tall man and his world domination, guess what, it's just a cultural meme. Taller people are mostly better at running. They die of heart problems earlier and are the main demographic to suffer spontaneous pneumothoraxes. Shorter people hardly ever suffer height unique illnesses. So drop the silly Darwinian thinking.

[Kapostatus13]

Tony you would be an exception and what other short guys would aim for. I just provided a logical answer, and a just general guidelines for short guys. But in western countries when i walk down the streer I usually see a shorter woman with a tall man, when i see a couple.

Your success at your height is an exception and doesnt reflect all short guys living in western countries. You can be short and still be good looking, muscular, rich, successful, strong, confident, extraverted, social, charismatic, live in a great city, have a nice physique and great in bed. Alot of variables out there thst can determine the success of a short guy in the dating game.

I myself am 5 foot 10 and lost my virginity to a woman that was 6 foot tall. I also hooked up with a asian chick that was about 5 foot 11 and with high heels is about 6 foot 2. She would tower over me with heels. With that being said dating taller women is possible but on consistent basis is being idealistic and not pragmatic.

[Adrenaline]

Height is seriously overrated on here. One of the first things a girl looks for? Bullshit. I'm a big night game guy and 5'11 (Yes, I know it's not that short in general but there's more guys taller than me than shorter me where I live). I get eye fucked/approached before the hoards of 6'2, 6'3, 6'4 men every time. This is before I even open my mouth so personality/spoken game has nothing to do with it. Why? Because women care more about my face, body, dress style and general aura than a few extra inches of meaningless height.

[Silva]

(07-23-2016 06:27 PM)Balkan Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 07:08 PM)Silva Wrote:  

I'm around 5'8, and I've had bouts of insecurities about my height. My solution - I started to wear elevator shoes or insert height increasing insoles. This easily adds up to 4 inches to my height, boosting me from 5'8 to 6'0.

Girls wear 5 inch heels, push up bras, make up, fake hair, fake nails, fake skin...why shouldn't I boost my height also?

Because it's a band aid solution to a deeper problem. Maybe it'll start with not clubbing without the elevator shoes, then it might transition into not being seen in public without the elevator shoes, and perhaps it'll reach its final form of not walking anywhere, even in private, without the elevator shoes. This crutch will become deeply intertwined with your ego. True confidence is grounded in acceptance. Most guys on here aren't models and we know our shortcomings. I reckon girls are more attracted to a guy shamelessly owning something (not wearing elevator shoes) vs a guy covering up his shortcomings. There's no acceptance wearing elevator shoes and although you might get more IOI's, there will always be a level of internal tension. It's a form of lying.

I'd feel like shit if I pulled a keeper and she noticed your real height later on, probably wasn't too bothered by it (post above-girls don't perceive height linearly) but since you deceived her, assuming she has some self-worth, she'll let you go. Good book that is relevant to this is Lying by Sam Harris.

Just to be a hypocrite. Of course wear boots out at night, but buying specific shoes that uncannily increase height (>2in) is a no go.

By the same logic, I could argue that dressing well, grooming, getting a stylish haircut, earning money, and any other means of increasing ones "value" could be classified as band aid solutions.

If true confidence is fully accepting yourself, why do you need to do any of the above? just go out as you are because you "accept yourself".

Now I do understand that altering height by a few inches is quite a big deception, but I've definitely noticed increased IOIs, easier time talking to girls etc. so I will take advantage of it.

[Lime]

(07-24-2016 01:51 AM)Adrenaline Wrote:  

Height is seriously overrated on here. One of the first things a girl looks for? Bullshit. I'm a big night game guy and 5'11 (Yes, I know it's not that short in general but there's more guys taller than me than shorter me where I live). I get eye fucked/approached before the hoards of 6'2, 6'3, 6'4 men every time. This is before I even open my mouth so personality/spoken game has nothing to do with it. Why? Because women care more about my face, body, dress style and general aura than a few extra inches of meaningless height.

Ya ok but 5'11 is moderate height and -contrastingly to what men think women think- maybe even just below perfect height and by no means short. So stories like this one make sense if you were 5'7 or maybe 5'8 barefoot at most. A couple of posts before I explained how men project linear height thinking on women, who on their term don't view height that linearly.

You are right in the notion that height is overrated here: it is not that you have to be tall, you just have to be not too short. But what is too short? Tony provides great inspiration with his 5'4 story.

[TonySandos]

Hey, I've been readily eye-balled in similar fashion as well. I have to wonder if some feel overlooked because they don't know what to look for in women checking them or ignoring them in the first place. Your facial response can determine how things go when people happen to glance at you. Tons of threads on this type of topic in detail too.

[ThundercockVeritas]

(10-22-2010 01:02 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(10-22-2010 04:27 AM)Richie Wrote:  

Don't bulk up dude! You will make it look like you have a short man complex. The more you try and make up for it in other ways the more you are making it obvious you have issues. You'll be riding around in a sports car next.

So it's better to be short and puny? Yeah, that's really going to help.

Yeah, he's offering some bad advice. I'm at the low end of the spectrum as far as height goes. Working out seriously for years (without steroids of course) has helped me in many ways which I won't bother to enumerate right now.

People that are tall have a tendency to assume automatically you have a complex about being short. In fact, I think it's just as likely to be the reverse. Tall people often have a PROBLEM with you being short, because the fact you exist makes them feel uncomfortable. I once knew a guy was 6'4 and told me how he'd use to get beat up by shorter guys in school all the time. I couldn't stay friends with him because he was a jackass. He's only had sex with one woman in his life, his wife, and she's a 4. After I went Red Pill and studied my social interactions in depth, I realized he was toxic to my progress.

[TonySandos]

Yes. I've seen this many times.

"I going to be team captain. I have years of experience on this and all you guys are all new"
'WHOA LIL MAN! WHY ARE YOU OVERCOMPENSATING!?'
"Are you slow?"

[CaliGuy]

Is there a certain way or time that short men should approach women? Day, night, direct, indirect etc?

Unfortunately I'm 5'5 and not exactly out going. Needless to say I've done very poorly with women. But that's why I'm here.

So far the tips I've read are

1. Lift
2. Nice clothes + hair
3. Wear shoes that make you taller

OK that's good baseline stuff. So how/when/where about pursuing women?

[John Michael Kane]

I'm 6'1", so short-guy game doesn't apply to me. That being said, I have several shorter friends that have no problem with women, or are in LTR/have wives and kids.

As a shorter guy, you have to understand that you're going to have to play a numbers game. Basically, you'll need a higher volume of attempts to get the same results as a taller guy. Its a numbers game, up your numbers!

Some other advice that I've seen short guys do well with:

1. Dress with vertical patterns. Don't ever wear anything horizontal.
2. This guys for all men, but stand up straight! If you're shorter to begin with, use everything you already have. Don't handicap yourself but slouching. Great posture makes you look and feel more confident.
3. Feeling more confident comes from within, not from external validation from women. Get your own life in order, that way you can exude genuine confidence as a man. You're a man who happens to be short, not a Short Man.
4. Aim for women JUST SLIGHTLY SHORTER THAN YOU. I've noticed that really tall women avoid short men, makes them feel too manly, or they feel that they are going to emasculate a short guy. Super short women generally speaking prefer a really tall man. So super short and super tall women are out (mostly from what I've noticed). If you go for a woman just a few inches shorter than yourself, you're just a short couple and nobody will bat an eyelash. Girls on the far end of the height spectrum both prefer really tall guys more strongly than girls in the middle.
5. If you're aren't already, get fit. When you're short, being fat shows up even more so than when being tall. Get your butt to the gym and put in the time.
6. Don't fall into short-man syndrome. Being that angry short guy. Tall guys like myself also deal with rejection. The percentages may be different, but we all deal with it. Men of all heights have to sack up and realize we're not going to be 100% attractive to 100% of the women out there. Don't feel sorry for yourself. Short guys that do well are the same thing as tall guys that do well, we both put in the effort and we both get results.
7. I'm just going to repeat #6. Your INTERNAL FRAME MATTERS. It matters even more as a short guy than a tall guy. Many girls expect short guys to have short guy complex. Defy expectations by being jovial, happy, and interesting. If she doesn't pickup that you view your own height as a weakness, neither will she.

[dallasguy]

As long as you're the same height or taller, then no problem at all. I personally would not want a girl taller than me. Big girls aren't as easy to flip around in bed and they have a bigger pussy.

[Naughty By Nature]

It's all in your head, bro. I met a guy in NYC who claimed to have 100 lays (of course he could be lying but I suspect he was telling the truth) and he was the exact same height as you. I met another 5'5/5'6 guy in NYC who is extremely charismatic and he had no issue getting booty. Cajun is also another elite "PUA" who gets more booty than a toilet seat despite being 5'5 or 5'6.

I can find example after example after example.

[Naughty By Nature]

To the dudes wearing elevator shoes, lol...as soon as you pull and you take them off, the girl is going to react like...

[The_e_man]

(02-03-2017 10:56 PM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  

It's all in your head, bro. I met a guy in NYC who claimed to have 100 lays (of course he could be lying but I suspect he was telling the truth) and he was the exact same height as you. I met another 5'5/5'6 guy in NYC who is extremely charismatic and he had no issue getting booty. Cajun is also another elite "PUA" who gets more booty than a toilet seat despite being 5'5 or 5'6.

I can find example after example after example.

I'm 5'6" and 23 years old with over 100 lays (whether you want to believe me on that or not is a different story).
So that's one more to add to the list. Though it's important to keep in mind I'm not swimming in pussy by any means. I just go out A LOT, approach A LOT, and get rejected A LOT. That being said, we are 1 month in to 2017 and I already have 5 new lays, with 2 of those 5 being girls that I consider extremely attractive / upper percentile. Another thing to keep in mind though, is I haven't been able to retain either of those two as fuck-buddies or even see them a second time after we banged.
Part of me wants to blame that on my height ... but I'm sure I'll be looking back in a year and thinking differently.

[Naughty By Nature]

(02-03-2017 11:29 PM)The_e_man Wrote:  

(02-03-2017 10:56 PM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  

It's all in your head, bro. I met a guy in NYC who claimed to have 100 lays (of course he could be lying but I suspect he was telling the truth) and he was the exact same height as you. I met another 5'5/5'6 guy in NYC who is extremely charismatic and he had no issue getting booty. Cajun is also another elite "PUA" who gets more booty than a toilet seat despite being 5'5 or 5'6.

I can find example after example after example.

I'm 5'6" and 23 years old with over 100 lays (whether you want to believe me on that or not is a different story).
So that's one more to add to the list. Though it's important to keep in mind I'm not swimming in pussy by any means. I just go out A LOT, approach A LOT, and get rejected A LOT. That being said, we are 1 month in to 2017 and I already have 5 new lays, with 2 of those 5 being girls that I consider extremely attractive / upper percentile. Another thing to keep in mind though, is I haven't been able to retain either of those two as fuck-buddies or even see them a second time after we banged.
Part of me wants to blame that on my height ... but I'm sure I'll be looking back in a year and thinking differently.

Bro, that is insane. I do believe ya. 5 lays in 1 month...holy hell! Are you in NYC/Chicago or something?

[ThundercockVeritas]

Guys, you're not truly disadvantaged until you're under 5'4 (the average height of a woman). If you work harder and smarter, you will have results. I am under 5'4. I don't have unlimited notches, but I've managed to have a girlfriends most of my life. Before that, the only thing that was holding me back was ME.

Abundance mentality is great, but if some girl is flawed and fixable, try fixing her first before nexting her. I tend to use techniques that are very similar to training my dog because they work. You can't next every flawed girl as a short guy. They're giving you a chance, so give them one. If you next every flawed girl you probably won't have anything to work with, making it rather impossible to maintain a realistic abundance mentality.

I often sense jealousy from other men; not because my girlfriends are gorgeous, but because they are usually somewhat above average and it's
annoying to them that a short guy like me managed to be with them. You have to acknowledge your height realistically to diminish the impact but don't think about it day to day. Like your skin color it's something you can't change. Just follow JMK's advice. I would add one more though: 8. Dump any friends that tease you about your height. They are losers in life and and in game, and it will just cause you think about height more in a paranoid way, something you don't want or need.

[CaliGuy]

(02-03-2017 11:29 PM)The_e_man Wrote:  

I'm 5'6" and 23 years old with over 100 lays (whether you want to believe me on that or not is a different story).
So that's one more to add to the list. Though it's important to keep in mind I'm not swimming in pussy by any means. I just go out A LOT, approach A LOT, and get rejected A LOT. That being said, we are 1 month in to 2017 and I already have 5 new lays, with 2 of those 5 being girls that I consider extremely attractive / upper percentile. Another thing to keep in mind though, is I haven't been able to retain either of those two as fuck-buddies or even see them a second time after we banged.
Part of me wants to blame that on my height ... but I'm sure I'll be looking back in a year and thinking differently.

Damn dude, that's amazing.

How did you achieve that? Where/when do you meet women? What's your style of gaming them?

I'm 5'5, 35 years old and my history with women can only be summed up as pathetic. I just haven't figured out how to make women into anything more than friends.

[ThundercockVeritas]

I don't think being short has much to do with whether a girl friend zones you or not. They friend zone you based on your frame. As long as you're direct about it, they'll either stick around or ghost, they won't try to place in you FS hell. Of course, it goes without saying, that if a girl does that to you, cut off contact with her. Girls are incapable of being friends with men. You can be friends with a girl you're having sex with, but not friends with a girl you've never had sex with.

[CaliGuy]

(02-05-2017 01:53 PM)ThundercockVeritas Wrote:  

I don't think being short has much to do with whether a girl friend zones you or not. They friend zone you based on your frame. As long as you're direct about it, they'll either stick around or ghost, they won't try to place in you FS hell. Of course, it goes without saying, that if a girl does that to you, cut off contact with her. Girls are incapable of being friends with men. You can be friends with a girl you're having sex with, but not friends with a girl you've never had sex with.

Friendzone is something a man does to himself. And no, it's not something I've allowed to happen to me in several years.

Being short though does affect a woman's attraction to you, almost always decreasing that attraction. Some men are able to counteract that attraction decrease through their "game." I don't have anything to counteract being short, so women aren't attracted to me and hence only offer me friendship. Then it's my choice to accept that or not.