[liveandlearn7]

I have a friend who is a good looking although short and skinny white kid. We are 24, and live in Queens. Girls used to like him back in the day, but he became introverted in high school. He prefers smoking weed with his boys and playing video games over macking it to shorties. His style is straight outdated, wearing Ecko tees and uptowns. I think he thinks changing it now will make people amused and laugh at him for trying to suddenly look good.(pretty dumb)

He's extremely shy when it comes to girls and will never do an approach. When we force him to come out with us the only thing he will do is piggy back on what you're talking about and quietly go along with what you're saying, never changing topics on his own. He's a non-factor really.

He's never bagged a girl before, and his only gf (she bagged him) played the shit out of him and ruined his life and confidence even further. He still hasn't gotten over her years later and has only fucked her I'm pretty sure.

He hasn't had a job in like 10 years and is content with being in college for the foreseeable future and living off a modest sum of money every week from his parents. He's just a herb, but I grew up with him and I've been through a lot with him. I can't just shed him yet, but I'm having less and less in common with him.

We've tried shaming him and cracking on him since he cares a lot about what we think of him, but it doesn't work and just makes him seclude himself even more. We tried being nice and forcing him to do approaches but he gives up after one or says things like "she's too hot." I tried linking him to Roosh, and helping him out with a OKC profile in order to gain some experience before doing real life approaches. Nothing works. I'm scared for his future mental health. I want him to be happy and I know he's not. He's just too scared to improve himself. We share our successes with him and let him watch us game but it doesn't spark anything in him. What can I do, other then give up on him and let him become a complete asexual loser. This kid has heart and I've seen him do some gangster shit. Help me RVF!

[Pyre]

You can't help anyone who doesn't want to help himself!

[liveandlearn7]

(09-16-2013 01:56 PM)Pyre Wrote:  

You can't help anyone who doesn't want to help himself!

That's what my friend tells me, but I think he wants to be helped. It's just so overwhelming for him, especially being so behind the average male in life experiences and exp with women. He needs to understand that its not scary, but I can't get through to him. Maybe I should bring him shopping first off to improve his confidence?

[tylerdurden1993]

Before being able to jump in and do approaches you're friend needs to work on his inner game i.e. confidence, self esteem etc. So things like getting some new clothes, different haircut or just things such as hanging around guy friends having a laugh could also help, that's if he wants to be helped.

If you want to know more about inner game there's a section on it in Bang which covers the topic briefly which should be a start.

[Beyond Borders]

Sounds like he needs to stop smoking bud to me.

[liveandlearn7]

(09-16-2013 02:32 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

Sounds like he needs to stop smoking bud to me.

Or only smoke at night before bed. It makes you content with doing nothing and fucks your game up and increases approach anxiety and clouds your mind. As long as he has smoking buddies, he won't feel like a complete loser because he still leaves his house. I agree. He's gotta hit rock bottom I feel.


And I gave him Bang, not sure if he read it or not though. As I said I linked him to Roosh, and discuss game and my successes (and failures) all the time. When I discuss tactics, he just nods his head like he already knows everything I'm saying.

[Sombro]

Chump don' want no help, chump don't get da help.

[Nascimento]

Give this a read: http://www.returnofkings.com/14403/helpi...a-bad-idea

[liveandlearn7]

(09-16-2013 03:58 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

Give this a read: http://www.returnofkings.com/14403/helpi...a-bad-idea

Very good article, fits my friend and past experiences with other guys to the tee.

[RonnieB]

When you lose all confidence like your friend you really care what people think of you. You especially care about what friends and family think of you. That is why the carrot is going to work better than the stick.

If you tell him he's a loser he will take it to heart and feel even less confident and continue his self sabotage as he will think he's a shit person. But if you point out his strengths and that he's a cool guy he will slowly gain confidence. He needs friends and family o give him that confidence boost and make him believe in himself.

It very hard to escape the pattern when you are telling yourself you are loser through bad self talk

[gandt]

I tried to help my friend. So I did and now he tries to wife every two-cent hoe he comes across. Smh...

[jariel]

Who your friends are says a lot about who you are.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(09-17-2013 01:44 PM)jariel Wrote:  

Who your friends are says a lot about who you are.

This.

Though not the first person to make this observation, Tim Ferriss may have put it best when he said:

“But you are the average of the five people you associate with most, so do not underestimate the effects of your pessimistic, unambitious, or disorganized friends. If someone isn't making you stronger, they're making you weaker.”

I'm a strong proponent of limiting if not cutting out people from your life who either bring you down or impede you in the process of becoming the man you are destined to be. You can bring people up only to the extent they want to rise with you. But beyond that you are being brought down by their presence.

Cut your losses. The sooner, the better. Your friends become fewer and fewer the older you get.

[Cyr]

(09-17-2013 01:11 PM)RonnieB Wrote:  

When you lose all confidence like your friend you really care what people think of you. You especially care about what friends and family think of you. That is why the carrot is going to work better than the stick.

If you tell him he's a loser he will take it to heart and feel even less confident and continue his self sabotage as he will think he's a shit person. But if you point out his strengths and that he's a cool guy he will slowly gain confidence. He needs friends and family o give him that confidence boost and make him believe in himself.

It very hard to escape the pattern when you are telling yourself you are loser through bad self talk

Exactly.
I have been in a position before where I had to help build one of my friends up after he got cheated on and dumped by a girlfriend he really liked. Whilst I wasn't really in a position to help him with game (mine was weak and his certainly wasn't any worse), I really encouraged him to lift weights with me. He'd gotten really out of shape whilst he'd had a girlfriend so I basically just showed him good exercises and said I could see he was making gains etc. To be honest I think that encouraging him to lift weights is the best place to start, as it will enhance his inner game/ confidence and improve his positivity.

[michelin]

Get him a copy of Bang as soon as possible.

[Beyond Borders]

(09-17-2013 03:56 PM)michelin Wrote:  

Get him a copy of Bang as soon as possible.

Maybe.

Some guys have been known to sabotage the very friends that are trying to help them when the idea of game is pushed on them too hard. Putting them on blast in front of other friends or even hot women at the bar. Whatever it takes to hold on to their own limited world view and cope with their growing insecurity.

Not only can this ruin a friendship but, unless OP has a very advanced frame, it could really fuck with his own head and shake up his progress. If you're going to try to pass him a copy of Bang, print it out and leave it somewhere nonchalantly and play dumb if it comes up.

Personally, I wouldn't do it at all.

Everyone above who said you can't help people who don't want to help themselves is right. This applies to anything having to do with self-improvement - whether it be finances, productivity, getting in shape, kicking addiction, whatever...

You can offer some general advice or words of inspiration here and there (and only if it's welcome), but other than that the best thing you can do is lead by example and be there to pass the torch if he decides he wants some of what you've got and comes to you for help.

Beyond that, leave it alone. You're grown-ups now and you've each got to live your own lives. Part of becoming an adult, and especially a man, is realizing that many of your friends will go different directions than you, but that's just life. Fighting it can make things worse; it can even hold you down.

There's a strong chance this guy will never aspire to be something more. If that's the case, you're probably better off moving forward without him.

Just gotta let go.

[durangotang]

(09-17-2013 03:56 PM)michelin Wrote:  

Get him a copy of Bang as soon as possible.

Better yet, sell him a copy of Bang. People don't necessarily value things they get for free. If you give him a copy of Bang for free he likely won't read it. If you get him interested in reading Bang at tell him you'll order it for him if he gives you $25 then he will probably read it.

[Christian McQueen]

Dead weight friends = dead weight for you on your path to success.

While it's admirable that you're trying to help him, you can't be his babysitter.

Decide what you want to be and garner friends who are already that. You'll rise up. The dead weight friends will say "You've changed!", and they'll be right; you'll have become better.

[JimNortonFan]

Cut off contact with him.

If he asks, tell him you're bust becoming the man you can be. If he wants to grow, he'll ask for help then.

Also, ask yourself why you want to help him. Do you want to help him or show off what you've become through the Manosphere/Game/RVF. If the latter, it's not genuine, so don't do it.

His doing "gangster shit" might just be bravado to hide a weak interior. He sounds a bit like I used to be so my advice is to dredge up any childhood stuff that did him in. Absent father, narcissistic mother, abuse etc. If he puts that past him he can proceed.

[liveandlearn7]

(09-17-2013 06:53 PM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  

Cut off contact with him.

If he asks, tell him you're bust becoming the man you can be. If he wants to grow, he'll ask for help then.

Also, ask yourself why you want to help him. Do you want to help him or show off what you've become through the Manosphere/Game/RVF. If the latter, it's not genuine, so don't do it.

His doing "gangster shit" might just be bravado to hide a weak interior. He sounds a bit like I used to be so my advice is to dredge up any childhood stuff that did him in. Absent father, narcissistic mother, abuse etc. If he puts that past him he can proceed.

I was never a herb like him. I already did very well before I discovered Roosh/Game 5-6 months ago. Lost my virginity at 14, and being almost 24 now, I had racked up about 30 notches before I discovered Game. This is with a few LTR's along the way as well. I've now racked up an additional 15 notches during this time period where I discovered game.

I got into game to do even better because I felt there was more I could do to improve myself, and I also wanted to fuck more higher quality women and reduce approach anxiety (I had relied on social circle and internet game mostly before game). I've been telling him stories about me fucking chicks and doing awesome things since we were teenagers. I used to think some guys had it, and some guys don't. But, when I discovered there are actual written methods and information, I figured he has no excuse to be a pussy anymore.

You're right about the weak interior thing though.

[CJ]

So, you want your friend to be more like you? Well, I guess it's only fair if I ask, OP, how many girls are you getting? I don't mean this as an insult, but it's important to know.

If you're "living the life" and having plenty of girls hang out with you, why don't you invite him and a couple of these girls over to your place.

I'd even consider hooking him up with a girl you're not banging, just to see if that breaks him out of his trance. I did this for a friend once, and it actually worked... for a little while, but I didn't follow up long enough, unfortunately. If you get to that point, let me know and I'll show you where I went wrong.

If he's smoking a lot of pot, try convincing him to smoke it with girls. I know plenty of girls that love smoking, and it's usually not a difficult transition to go from smoking and drinking to banging them.

In short, don't try to make your friend do a complete 180. Do: try to incorporate women into what he's already doing, and show him first hand how good your life is, then see if he decides to follow you the rest of the way over to this side.

[liveandlearn7]

(09-19-2013 06:02 PM)CJ Wrote:  

So, you want your friend to be more like you? Well, I guess it's only fair if I ask, OP, how many girls are you getting? I don't mean this as an insult, but it's important to know.

If you're "living the life" and having plenty of girls hang out with you, why don't you invite him and a couple of these girls over to your place.

I'd even consider hooking him up with a girl you're not banging, just to see if that breaks him out of his trance. I did this for a friend once, and it actually worked... for a little while, but I didn't follow up long enough, unfortunately. If you get to that point, let me know and I'll show you where I went wrong.

If he's smoking a lot of pot, try convincing him to smoke it with girls. I know plenty of girls that love smoking, and it's usually not a difficult transition to go from smoking and drinking to banging them.

In short, don't try to make your friend do a complete 180. Do: try to incorporate women into what he's already doing, and show him first hand how good your life is, then see if he decides to follow you the rest of the way over to this side.

I'm fucking 2-3 new girls every month, and almost always have at least one fuck buddy or a harem of 2-3 lizards on call. This is with minimal effort and hardly no daygame as I've been really busy lately as I start my career and just finished school finally. This is also with being pretty broke and living in my dads basement. He's been hearing stories of me fucking girls and confidently landing jobs, dates, gfs, and bangs since we were 14. The thing is I've brought him to kick it with girls so many times and he's just a non-entity. He won't fuck it up for you but he makes you look lame. He has no idea how to guide a convo or change topics, he can't flirt and is clueless about escalation. He doesn't take advantage of being around girls. he just doesn't know what to talk about and say other then "do you smoke?" Without me or one of the girls establishing a topic to talk about, he'll just be quiet and stand there awkward looking. He can be decent in conversing with women but he just talks to them like they are his boys, doesn't flirt whatsoever, and piggybacks off my conversation.

So, about the weed thing, that's still the only venue change/let's go hang out move he has and the only escalation move he uses. The thing is, while being a pothead as a teen looked cool and bad boyish and got him to hang out with a few girls here and there in the past...now he just looks like a loser at 24. He just lacks social skills, and is downright sad to look at when there are girls around. I told him to do approaches alone to start improving his game without risk of feeling embarrassed in front of us but he doesn't do it. I've given him every tip and self-improvement advice in the book. I honestly think he's just incredibly scared about this transition from shy loser to confident adult. I've told him many times that his situation with women won't improve until he improves himself in other aspects. This is the stage we are on, and he's still having trouble. I think his ex playing him years ago just sapped his soul.

[bojangles]

(09-17-2013 02:32 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 01:44 PM)jariel Wrote:  

Who your friends are says a lot about who you are.

This.

Though not the first person to make this observation, Tim Ferriss may have put it best when he said:

“But you are the average of the five people you associate with most, so do not underestimate the effects of your pessimistic, unambitious, or disorganized friends. If someone isn't making you stronger, they're making you weaker.”

I'm a strong proponent of limiting if not cutting out people from your life who either bring you down or impede you in the process of becoming the man you are destined to be. You can bring people up only to the extent they want to rise with you. But beyond that you are being brought down by their presence.

Cut your losses. The sooner, the better. Your friends become fewer and fewer the older you get.

totally agree with this, hence why i have the bromigos

[Samseau]

You don't need to cut your friend out of your life. I have many beta friends that I genuinely care about.

However, game is not for everyone. Just tell your friend,

"Listen bro, you know you are my bro and I always have your back. But I find it strange that you don't want more pussy? I know you would be much happier with more pussy. But you don't seem to really care for it? I don't know. But look man. If you EVER need help getting women or figuring out women, you can always ask me for help. There's no shame in asking help from me, because I'm your friend and I will always help you.

But if you're fine with your life and where it's at right now, then it's cool. I promise this will be the last time I talk to you about this stuff. But if you ever need help, I'll be here."

And that's all you do. Remember, not everyone is ready for game at the same time. I myself did not lose my virginity until later in life, and it simply was because I was not emotionally ready to handle women until then. Your friend may not be ready yet either.

But eventually, loneliness, or horniness, will get to him, and when he needs help he'll come to you.

Don't stop being a good friend, it's a great quality to have. You can still hang out with him and have fun. But you can't forget about numero uno.

[liveandlearn7]

(09-20-2013 11:16 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

You don't need to cut your friend out of your life. I have many beta friends that I genuinely care about.

However, game is not for everyone. Just tell your friend,

"Listen bro, you know you are my bro and I always have your back. But I find it strange that you don't want more pussy? I know you would be much happier with more pussy. But you don't seem to really care for it? I don't know. But look man. If you EVER need help getting women or figuring out women, you can always ask me for help. There's no shame in asking help from me, because I'm your friend and I will always help you.

But if you're fine with your life and where it's at right now, then it's cool. I promise this will be the last time I talk to you about this stuff. But if you ever need help, I'll be here."

And that's all you do. Remember, not everyone is ready for game at the same time. I myself did not lose my virginity until later in life, and it simply was because I was not emotionally ready to handle women until then. Your friend may not be ready yet either.

But eventually, loneliness, or horniness, will get to him, and when he needs help he'll come to you.

Don't stop being a good friend, it's a great quality to have. You can still hang out with him and have fun. But you can't forget about numero uno.

That was a great post.

I do care about the kid a lot, but this isn't even about him just being lame with girls. He hasn't held a job in over 10 years, and never really had a real one to begin with now that I think about it. He thinks when he finally graduates college that a career and a wife will fall into his lap, even though his resume has a gap bigger then the space between Madonna's teeth. He has no idea that he doesn't know how to even function on a job interview, and has no experience working with other people, or talking with superiors or anything. If you can't game a girl, you can't game a job recruiter or interviewer. Especially when they're likely to be female these days. Imagine trying to negotiate a raise or a higher salary? Imagine him trying to pitch something?

I've been trying to tell him that studying game will help him improve in ALL aspects in life. He wasn't always so introverted but hanging with the wrong people and making the wrong choices in life has turned him into a social retard.

His parents also don't help, as his father is just like him. He thinks that if his father was able to get married even though he is an introvert who doesn't wear the pants in the family, that he will get lucky too. He doesn't realize we live in different times, and his father would never succeed today in a world where you need much more then a stable job and decent looks. There are much more requirements today.