[ChiPolo]

So I stumbled upon this forum about a year ago...and am kicking myself in the head for not finding it earlier--better late than never I guess.

Long time reader, first time posting

First of all, want to say that info on all of these forums and Roosh's articles and insights are worth their weight in gold, hands down. Not to mention the network of ambitious independent types...huge.

So it's this network that I want to tap into -- we'll get back to that.

Little about me in a nutshell -- 27 years old out of Chicago, gragitated in International Business, got a job, bla bla bla.

Being chained to a desk for someone else just to make a safe annual salary? No way, not anymore. Worked in International Logistics for a few years, then jumped into the family business of car sales and service.

So I've been scouring the forums trying to figure just how this traveling lifestyle is sustained and achieved. I want that. I need that. The whole location independent thing is great, setting up a website, selling wholesale, etc. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that combining what I know -- International Trade & Cars -- just might be the way to go.

U.S Automotive Exports

It's been done, nothing innovative, but its feasible.

Been doing my homework, opportunities are there -- but I'm running into a major roadblock: reliable, ambitious, trustworthy contacts at these destinations.

Major, major problem. I've noticed FEW people outside of the US have the "stop-at-nothing-attitude" 100% octane boost drive to succeed financially. Perhaps these aren't priorities in other cultures, or maybe I'm just completely missing something.

Whatever the case, I'm reaching out to the cats on this forum. If there's any interest, questions, comments, previous experience in this field, suggestions. Anything will help at this point (el mech? I'm lookin in your direction)

I've been trying to find contacts through US Consulates, Embassies, Commerce departments, etc -- with few legitimate results.

Currently doing research for importing into Paraguay & Honduras. Would like to get on the Central/South American tip this coming winter -- in terms of travelling and setting up trade routes.

For what it's worth -- I have a dealer license, mechanic services, body services, transport agents -- so it's 80% there. Just need a go to at destinations.

-Cheers

[polar]

The money might be in used cars, not new. (I don't know about it firsthand, but anecdotal evidence follows): an acquaintance of mine studying in the US from Kazakhstan received a handsome sum of money from relatives / their close friends in KZ to buy and send them three used Toyota Camrys...apparently, the dealerships over there are mad pricy in comparison to imported used cars. He bought them around Brighton Beach and organized the shipping via containers. He was skimpy on the details, but said that the cars would arrive in KZ a couple months later.

Going the used route does have its own issues, such as how do you sell the used cars to new customers - long lead time, deposits, variable quality, etc. If you're going to go that route, the best is probably to specialize in a particular brand, model, or body type. For example, 80% of cars in Afghanistan are Toyota Corollas because they're cheap, reliable, and their long prevalence means that parts are easy to find. (If I recall correctly, though, one of the only Toyota dealerships in Afghanistan is owned by Karzai's family - not an easy business to get into).

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Autos/Late...80014.aspx
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...04637.html

Your biggest stumbling blocks will probably be corruption and red tape. You might need to acquire some local contacts in shipping / customs to get things off the ground and make sure that your cars don't spend time waiting for legal roadblocks to clear. Some countries might have palms in need of greasing...

If you're looking for countries where importing cars might work, you might want to look at places where high recent economic growth has resulted in an increasingly large middle class, but dealerships are tangled in red tape or access to them is controlled by nepotism, corruption, etc.

[Parlay44]

From watching endless car shows I learned that there is a growing market for classic American muscle cars in Sweden. You may want to look into that.

[ChiPolo]

Polar -- Right on man, appreciate the feedback.

So a lot of good points, let me elaborate. Used cars? Absolutely, new car business is a whole different animal, but yea my family specializes in Volvo service and sales. It's an independent shop. But, access to wholesale dealer auctions helps, so any make/model available on the US market is fair game.

Kazakhstan might be out of my comfort zone at the moment, literally zero contacts, zero knowledge and haven't even thought about studying that market.

Corruption issue? Yea...without a doubt. My contact in Paraguay is favorable in this respect, but I still haven't shipped out a trial run. We'll see what happens.

Also, with the rising middle class countries, there seem to be tendencies to restrict used car imports completely, i.e -- Argentina, Colombia, Ecuador, Brazil just to name a few. I think the reason being that in the past, US/European businesses would literally dump old piece of shit cars/capital vehicles into these markets while there were no parts, repair shops, no resources for these products thereby creating massive overall losses and problems for the government.

[Belize King]

I have a family friend who runs vehicles from US to Belize. Been doing it for 20 years. Taxes are crazy down there and there arent too many lots. Money is to be made and you are a mechanic so that lowers your overhead. Interested in this thread. Keep us updated.

[Parlay44]

Would it be better tax-wise to export junkers and fix them up at the destination country?

[Papi Rico]

You're on the right track.

IMO, you need to accept the extreme difficulty of starting in multiple places simultaneously. Pick one market, and focus all of your energies on making it work there.

If your focus is on Latin America, your venture is doomed to fail without solid local government or business contacts. Honduras may provide for an interesting operating environment, but with increased personal safety risks. You would likely be working through Puerto Cortes and distributing primarily in San Pedro Sula - you must have contacts in both places.

Paraguay may be Latin America's mecca of stolen automobiles, most of which derive from Brazil and Argentina and are funneled through customs-free Ciudad del Este (utter lack of government presence). When I visited, I saw either late model luxury makes (Mercedes, BMW, etc) or cars which looked like they were assembled with scrap metal at a nearby Guarani village - nothing in between. Keep this in consideration and be prepared to deal with some very shady types if you choose Paraguay.

I advise you to stay out of Russia-CIS pending the outcome of a WTO dispute which may dramatically change the car industries there.

[ChiPolo]

Again, thanks for the feedback fellas, a lot to think about:

Parlay -- Ive considered this, however, the issue would be obtaining parts, something that is taken for granted here in the US. I COULD export the parts along with the car, but I would need a location/shop at destination to do this -- something I'd like to avoid doing in the beginning to avoid start up costs. Great idea, in my opinion, something to consider down the road once the business has been proven. Also another catch 22 would be to see if there are any restrictions on title types (salvage or junk titles).

Tex -- I've considered Belize due to the lack of a language barrier. Just checked out the duties, up to 60% ... wow. Not sure how you're friend is swingin' it, but the market prices must be insanely inflated for him to put food on the table. Must be a loophole somewhere.

Rico -- Agreed on the location advice, but right now I'm researching, seeing where I should place my focus. Paraguay/Poland/Honduras is what I've narrowed it down to. The idea is for my involvement to end at destination port. If I'll need to get involved in distribution and marketing at destination...well I'd have to be pretty well versed in the language and the country's market trends, way of doing business, haggling, etc. I figure someone already there, in the business, and/or willing to be would make everything move a lot quicker.

Russia is out -- foggedabowdit.

I've been to Asuncion, and that's where I'd be sending 'em. I've heard the tales about Ciudad Del Este, and judging from what I've seen in Asuncion alone? I have zero doubt that you're right on point.

I also found out while I was there, the major trade lane for cars coming into Asuncion is from Japan via Chile. All those shitty Chinese car knockoffs you've heard about (Top Gear Episode anyone? Give me a silent nod here) are being sent from Japan, the right-side steering wheel drive is flipped onto the left side, and then blasted over to Paraguay. Crazy right? Sad part is, some of these cars have an expected life of two years given the derelict state of roads out there.

[Papi Rico]

Poland neighbors the world's 4th largest car-producing country, and don't forget Russia's growing production. Check Wiki's list of countries by vehicles per capita - it says a lot: 537 vehicles per 1000 people in Poland, compared with 95 per 1000 Hondurans and 54 per 1000 Paraguayans. Compare that with the countries' respective GDP/capita: Poland - 12,708; Paraguay - 4000; Honduras - 2200. I would bet that high number of cars per Pole has at least something to do with Poland's much broader and sophisticated market for automobiles. Don't forget, if you're exporting to Poland, you're exporting to the EU, whom are at the cutting-edge of red tape.

I would give serious consideration for Paraguay - just avoid the Dead Bat.

[Brodiaga]

The business used to be good back in the FSU back in the days when the dollar was cheaper (early-mid 2000's). I even considered doing it with my friend. Even back then it was only worth shipping used cars costing more than approx $40K in the US, but the competition was already fierce from the locals either visiting the US and looking for cars, or teaming up with US-based Russians.

[stranger]

I will start by saying I do not have any experience in this, take it as mere speculation, but I spent my early childhood in the Middle East.

I would think they do well in any country that idolizes the US. Sell them cars that they see in Hollywood movies, like Transformers or Fast and Furious. Popcorn action flicks are huge in these places. A lot of these countries currently also have dubbed versions of old syndicated tv shows like Miami Vice.

Find countries like that, combined with people who have money, like the Middle East. They may seem anti-west, but they really idolize them and want to emulate their style. SEA is the same.

I heard from someone that while they were in the Middle East, they used to buy Nissan sports models (forget which one) from Japan and sell them there. Again, don't know too much about how he did it, just throwing it out there in case anyone benefits.

[Cattle Rustler]

Go to places where gas is cheap and cars cost a lot....

in other words, Venezuela.

Gas is cheap and people want trucks, but they cost A LOT, like 40K or something. So what some guy did was buy used trucks from Texas for 14-16K, ship them via houston, and flip them for 20-25K in Venezuela. The startup costs were big (paid in cash, shipping, bribes) but he was making bank. My friend's dad did this too by selling to venezuela or driving cars to guatemala/honduras.

[paninaro]

Can you explain your business idea in a bit more detail? Is your plan to export used Volvos to Paraguay? Is it for buyers already waiting, or you'll set up a dealership?

I imported a car to Europe (for my own use) so I know the shipping and certification process first-hand. I also talked to the exporter in NJ (where most cars leave the US East Coast) who was making huge money sending cars to Eastern Europe, especially Ukraine and Belarus.

[ChiPolo]

Well -- Good question. Answer: It depends.

Currently my contact that I trust does not own a dealership. It would be consigned to a private party thus being a private party sale. So, here's the element of trust and reliability that's absolutely vital. Buyers waiting? I wish, but not impossible. That would require a few cars to move down there and get some word of mouth going, in that way I could set up a custom car import direct to consumer. Setting up a dealership? Yes, also possible. Not off the bat though.

I started a business a few years ago and it didn't work out (bus company)-- one of the lessons I took away from that? I was waayyy to rigid. Inflexibility can be poisonous. So my approach here is send out a trial, see what happens and adapt. So establishing a satellite dealership? Maybe, maybe not.

Volvos would be ideal, but again, not set in stone. The Volvo "branding" in central and south America is very different from the branding in North America. It's a bit tougher to sell down there as they are less common and perceived as high society.

So the detail right now I guess is to send it out, consign privately, sell, double check the numbers, take the next step.

I know Eastern Europe (Poland included) was a used car bonanza around 2008ish, I think that ship has sailed, but that doesn't mean there's still no opportunity.

Just curious, when did you send your car to Europe? Was it worth doing?

[RenewalMan]

A friend of mine imported classic American muscle cars into Sweden for years. He'd buy these beat up old cars sitting in people's front yards for ~1500-10000, fix em up and ship them over to a 100% trusted contact who would import/resell.
The profit margin was pretty good and I think they flipped around 300 or so cars over a number of years.. That was more of a side hustle though.

The market in Sweden for old American muscle is massive and very exploitable for profit.

As you said though the absolute MOST important aspect of this is having a 1000% trusted contact on the other side who you know will follow through.

[WestIndianArchie]

Like most business, it's very doable.
People in every country are already doing it.
You would be just joining a bunch of folks in their business.

This kind of business is not a hustle, it's not a sideline. It's not a hobby.
If you were fixing up muscle cars and reselling at auction - you could do that as a hobby. Buy a car a on craig's list, put it up on jackstands in the garage, and get to wrenching.

But going to the dealer's auction, requires that you do all the necessary paperwork to become a licensed auto dealer. Then you need to set up the banking and legal entities. Then you have to go to the auction and find good buys. And that's assuming that you've smoothed everything out at the other country and have enough money to grease some hands when the inevitable snafu happens.

It's something where you have to be working on from 9-5 - when the other people in your business are working.

It's not from 5 pm to 12 am like most bedroom/basement businesses like most things people here talk about - weed pipes and internet marketing.

WIA

[ChiPolo]

Dealer License, check.

Entity, check -- forwarding agents, check -- Bank accounts, check.

Dealer auctions are done online now -- don't even have to be on location anymore. 9-5pm? Yuup. Probably even more whack hours if its goin global. More of a permanent oncall status, but which jobs/careers aren't anymore? People are checking emails 24/7. I'm sure Roosh is no exception to this with his website and books and promotions and e-mail letters and hot broads and...

But I disagree -- all business is a hustle...unless you're the guy without any skin in the game. Then you're punching the clock, hustle element is removed from the equation. Hobby? It is for me...at least for now, I'm sure it will get old, but it certainly hasn't yet and the international aspect seems like it's going to be the best part.

But I hear ya West -- a little different than the online marketing shtick, no doubt.

[paninaro]

I know a guy who ran a business in Eastern Europe where he'd only import cars he had already sold. In his case, his main market was importing new Ford Mustangs and Ford F-150s, since both were not available in Europe. He'd do all the modifications and certifications and hand them the keys to a brand new vehicle with EU registration tags on it.

He made his money in volume, like doing the shipping in bulk (stuffing a few cars per container), had a mechanic on staff for modifications, etc. It scaled I guess you could say.

It sounds like you want to start smaller than that, and with less up-front risk. I guess at this point -- what's holding you back from doing it? Might as well give it a try and see what happens.

[LowerCaseG]

I am not an expert, but I am under the impression it is cheaper to buy an automobile new or used in the US than virtually anywhere else on the planet. I would be specifically intrigued with West Africa. I was told you could pretty much double your money on any 4 or 5k used car in Ghana, and I dated a girl who's brother imported cars into Namibia. Seemed like they were looking more for older used luxury cars that could be picked up cheap, and were cosmetically in good shape. It sounded like getting the product through customs is the entire business model. And of course getting paid, because you would be fronting the money to buy the cars.

[RenewalMan]

If you buy cars specifically for export you can circumvent paying sales tax on them (I'm sure you already knew that). Not sure about South America, but in Europe one of the hardest things about importing new cars is keeping up with the different emission/operating standards. It's quite a bit stricter and "greener" in Europe. It can get expensive quickly to modify 15-20 different things.

Older vehicles don't have that issue as they are grandfathered in to most places. I'm talking about older as in "antiques" or 25+ years old.

These cars are fairly abundant in America and if your in the right spot (dry warm environment) they're fairly well preserved. They're quite desirable in Scandanavia and they don't have to be perfect since there's a huge culture here for fixing up old American cars (so long as it runs and rust isn't an issue). In fact, if the car has beat up original interior chances are its worth more to them here than if you reupholstered, etc.

Anyways sounds like you've got your heart set more on central/south America but if your interested in importing to EU and have more questions shoot me a pm. Like I said I have a buddy who did it successfully for years.

[AntiTrace]

I just talked to a used bus exporter two days ago. He says hes gets guys that come in from El Salvador with a wad a cash, buy up a couple 5-6k buses, drive them down there and sell them for around 25k.

He also said theres a guy who does a lot of biz exporting them to Africa, where apparently they sell for upwards of 40k.

I am seriously considering flying down to El Salvador to check the area out and find a buyer

[ChiPolo]

Guys...I'm lovin the info here -- glad to see there's people interested.

Few things:

@ Pani -- So the Issue is essentially finding a solid contact at destination, so just for the sake of argument, let's flip the script and put ourselves in your Eastern European buddy's shoes...let's call him Mr.Brown.

Mr.Brown has a huge huge HUGE leg up in the sense that he's importing into his own country. Anyone in the world can purchase cars on US Online markets, let's say ebay. Mr.Brown looks at a few listings on Ebay, finds a few that he likes, calls up the contacts, asks a few questions, if everything checks out (vin #s, car history, not stolen), the overall integrity of the US online market dictates that he's pretty safe in purchasing the car if done accordingly with the proper paperwork and bank involvement. All Mr.Brown needs is a willing seller to go through the process with. At this point, Mr.Brown fronts the cash, has a freight forwarding agent (9 time out of 10) at Belarus (lets say) that he goes to. This forwarding agent has a network in the US that he uses, gives a quote to Mr.Brown, and handles, EVERYTHING from pick up to Customs Clearance and delivery in Belarus. So in this scenario, Brown's got almost complete control over the process, especially the most important part, which is knowledge of the sales market in Belarus, language, cultural understanding, prices -- and control over the profit and money upon sale. And the most critical part, the sale, is something that he himself is supervising.

Now let's go back, I on the other hand, am on the complete opposite end of this spectrum, advantages in purchase in the domestic US market, wholesale access to cars, parts, labor, diagnostics, etc. But the downfall here is at destination, the sale is out of my control, which is the most critical part -- in order to do this either A) I set up a sale of the car, paperwork, get it ready at port of lading for export and get the money up to this phase of the transaction and the partner then takes it from there and his profits are the margins on the sale or B) The partner at destination works cooperatively all the way until the end and re reimburses the costs upon sale.

Option A is safer for me, but harder on the partner
Option B is high risk for me, but easier on the partner

Both options still need a very high level of trust. And it's this problem here that's jamming me up at this point...

@ LowerCase -- Japan and the US are massive used car markets. I'm not sure if you watch Wheeler Dealers? But they make some solid points about the Japanese markets, its very unique with high volume (go figure, a country the size of Japan?). The US is great too because of the overall condition of the infrastructure and consumer responsibility in general is pretty good.

Renewal -- All this talk about Scandinavian markets has me thinkin...

Antitrace -- El Salvador was another top candidate, except I only have one contact down there who is just a lazy clown...completely undependable. Keep me posted on that, maybe we can help eachother or atleast brainstorm.

[el mechanico]

I could do this but...

If you have a car for sale you could also just put it on Criagslist and it will be gone in a week with cash in your hand. Now I understand bigger profit but also if one deal fucks up you just lost what you've gained so just turn more units locally that takes less time and effort..

Busses are tricky. One fuel injection pump failure on the highway in Mexico and your deal is fucked, remember you're buying old busses. I can find 50 of them a month if you want though..Dudes here buy them and scrap them after they sell the engine/trans.

At auction: The dudes exporting are from the places they export to and usually have very trusted family members on the other end. They also know all the dumb shit like which color cars are taboo and how to keep the import wheels greased on that end.

Why would you do this? For pussy! A reason to be in that country.

Online auctions: Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! you need to look and know what you're buying. If you can't tell you need to bring an Ace with you or you'll end up with a pile of junk, also watch titles, rebuilt, salvage etc. Some you can't export but also some countries it's cheaper to export wrecked cars to turn more $$$$



The Swedes: Very reliable but don't have the buying power they used to, I've sold them boats, muscle cars and every single 4 bolt main 350 chevy in the local junkyards here. I literally would drill a hole in the oil pan to make sure it was 4 bolts. They used my property as a staging area but haven't been here in a couple years. They're crying broke.

Chicago: expensive to ship from? Rusty cars, sharks/bottom feeders at the auctions. I would choose another place.

I know a faster, better way to do this and make money but it's borderline shady.

Another thing about busses..Why send them empty? Fill them up with portable cheap welders from harbor freight or whatever else you can make cash on.

[AntiTrace]

Mech theres a bus lot up here that has a group come in once a month or so and moves 5-6 buses a time all the way from New England to central/latin america.

From what I understand they are cheaper up north due to rust issues. A brand new bus will only last 6-7 years up here before the schools wont take it anymore. I'm guessing the inspection standards are a bit more lax outside of the US haha.

If I could find a trustworthy buyer, I'd be moving buses all year.

[el mechanico]

(09-05-2013 11:50 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

Mech theres a bus lot up here that has a group come in once a month or so and moves 5-6 buses a time all the way from New England to central/latin america.

From what I understand they are cheaper up north due to rust issues. A brand new bus will only last 6-7 years up here before the schools wont take it anymore. I'm guessing the inspection standards are a bit more lax outside of the US haha.

If I could find a trustworthy buyer, I'd be moving buses all year.

I don't believe they sell for that much. It's like an urban legend I've been hearing about my entire life. Who there has cash?

Are they school busses or all busses?

Video break to add some life to this thread...

If you're gonna go, go big...Excavators, garbage trucks etc. Shit people with real cash buy. My buddy exports them to Belize from here.

Edit: maybe...
http://www.encuentra24.com/el-salvador-e...ruck-bus.2

Completed listings on ebay for school busses

http://motors.completed.shop.ebay.com/i....=1&guest=1