[AntiTrace]

Thats what Im thinking mech. Why would someone pay 25k in El Salvador for a 5k bus in the states? Granted you got to factor in the bribes and transportation costs.

And these are school buses. Typical one would right now would probably be a 02-03 International Bluebird diesel pushing 120k miles. They got a lot of life left in them, but 25K USD could put them in a 2010 model with very few miles. You would think whoever was buying these buses for the supposed 25k, would just do that instead of paying a huge markup.

[el mechanico]

(09-05-2013 12:16 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

Thats what Im thinking mech. Why would someone pay 25k in El Salvador for a 5k bus in the states? Granted you got to factor in the bribes and transportation costs.

And these are school buses. Typical one would right now would probably be a 02-03 International Bluebird diesel pushing 120k miles. They got a lot of life left in them, but 25K USD could put them in a 2010 model with very few miles. You would think whoever was buying these buses for the supposed 25k, would just do that instead of paying a huge markup.

This one sold on ebay..Those types of busses aren't 5k all day long
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004-BLUE...558wt_1010

[el mechanico]

I have to admit I see opportunity here and it seems like fun/adventure.

7/10 would get involved

[AntiTrace]

Well thats in MO. Down south the buses are more expensive because they don't have the rust issues we have from the salted roads in the winter up north. Its an 04, flat nose, with 80k miles. Cat 7.2 engine looks pristine. Good tires with no undercarriage or crossmember rust (its a southie bus for sure). 13k isn't a bad price for it.

They tend to drop in value fast once they reach 10+ years. I'm not sure if its because of export laws, but the 02 models are going for 5-6K while the 03 models are going for 8-10k.

edit - I see the opportunity too. And I had a job that lets me take time off for adventures like these. Kayak is showing me tickets to El Salvador for 450ish......

they also are not fans of flat nosed from what I hear. Makes sense cause its harder to work on the engine.

[patron]

Here is a website for car sales in the Dominican Republic. http://www.supercarros.com Cars here are very expensive.

If you want a $100,000 jeepeta, you are paying cash or financing with 50% down and 2% interest rates a month.

[ChiPolo]

I see the gears are startin to move here...yes

Mech, I was kind of hoping you'd latch onto this thread -- I just wanted to clarify that these cars would not be exported directly from auction. I would purchase, fix them up into tip top shape, then send em out. My Dads been doing it for years (not the exporting part) and i've been off and on for about 3 years. Internet's the way to go, and certain regions don't put a value on volvos as high as other (South Central US for example) so there's benefits to online.

Craigslist sales? Yea im doing that too, usually takes hella longer than a week to sell a car, but im trying to open up another outlet here, that's all.

Trace -- I thought you were talking about Coach Buses, we're talkin school buses? Dude, these are a dime a dozen on auction, not to mention government auctions. There are people that buy MASSIVELY in bulk, some have contracts before these buses even hit the market (can't verify though, just heresay).

Also, I'm assuming the local market price dictates the sales price. Mark ups or not, the entrepreneur that sees this and has the balls to do it, takes the cake. I feel like 90% of the people buying buses would rather stick to local purchases for warranties or avoiding all the hassles and potential problems along the way. They'd rather let the import bus specialists do it, thats why they exist.

[AntiTrace]

Chi - I know all about the prices on em, I've been researching my party bus for the past six months haha. You got any idea why they drop in value so suddenly once they hit the 10 year mark? The lot owner says the guys from El Salvador are only looking for 03 and up, so theres got to be some laws down there on that.

[ChiPolo]

(09-05-2013 01:21 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

Chi - I know all about the prices on em, I've been researching my party bus for the past six months haha. You got any idea why they drop in value so suddenly once they hit the 10 year mark? The lot owner says the guys from El Salvador are only looking for 03 and up, so theres got to be some laws down there on that.

No idea on the price plunge.

Compilation of Foreign Motor Vehicle Import
Requirements

http://www.trade.gov/mas/manufacturing/o...003657.pdf

El Salvador is page 26

It's a 2011 source, things may have changed, just requires more digging.

[el mechanico]

Volvos are problematic here and european cars in general are harder/slower to sell and have expensive components that could screw your deal if you get them at the auction.

I have an 04 c70 convertible I bought the other day with trans problems under 90k mi and haven't fixed it yet because I'm dreading trying to sell it.

[Hencredible Casanova]

Man I totally forgot about this hustle but was exposed to at different points during my travels in Latin America. Occasionally I'd meet a couple driving down to Chile or Brazil from the US to sell their vehicles where they'd command a higher price than at home. These were folks who were just doing that as a way to help fund their one-time travels though, not as a lifestyle business.

[ChiPolo]

(09-05-2013 01:27 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Volvos are problematic here and european cars in general are harder/slower to sell and have expensive components that could screw your deal if you get them at the auction.

I have an 04 c70 convertible I bought the other day with trans problems under 90k mi and haven't fixed it yet because I'm dreading trying to sell it.

Usually a PNP switch ... if not that then hopefully a solenoid. But really? The markets that bad eh?

[Hotwheels]

(09-05-2013 11:56 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

If you're gonna go, go big...Excavators, garbage trucks etc. Shit people with real cash buy. My buddy exports them to Belize from here.

A year or three ago I heard that was the hot thing; Construction equipment exporting to China and the third world.

No idea if it's still hot.

[paninaro]

(09-05-2013 10:35 AM)ChiPolo Wrote:  

Now let's go back, I on the other hand, am on the complete opposite end of this spectrum, advantages in purchase in the domestic US market, wholesale access to cars, parts, labor, diagnostics, etc. But the downfall here is at destination, the sale is out of my control, which is the most critical part -- in order to do this either A) I set up a sale of the car, paperwork, get it ready at port of lading for export and get the money up to this phase of the transaction and the partner then takes it from there and his profits are the margins on the sale or B) The partner at destination works cooperatively all the way until the end and re reimburses the costs upon sale.

Option A is safer for me, but harder on the partner
Option B is high risk for me, but easier on the partner

Both options still need a very high level of trust. And it's this problem here that's jamming me up at this point...

OK I understand better now. I'd say just roll the dice and give it a go. Go down there, find some guys (local dealers) and tell them "I'll sell you car X for $Y FOB to your country, and then you can do with it as you please. " So to start off, they are in charge of selling it, and you just provide them with good product at a good price. Let them figure out their local market.

That will allow you to work out the logistics and see if there is really a market. After you get that worked out, you can start taking more of the pie on the local side through other arrangements.

At this point, I think you just need to see if the concept in general works. Worry about margins later -- first prove the concept.

[Cattle Rustler]

(09-05-2013 07:04 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 11:56 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

If you're gonna go, go big...Excavators, garbage trucks etc. Shit people with real cash buy. My buddy exports them to Belize from here.

A year or three ago I heard that was the hot thing; Construction equipment exporting to China and the third world.

No idea if it's still hot.

China has been slowing down due to increasing bank regulations (harder to get loans) and government intervention to stop building ghost towns.

Africa is the hotspot at the moment since it's growing like crazy. The thing is....most of it's commerce and loans are tied to China. So if China slows (and it is) then Africa slows down.

[Tytalus]

Chipolo have you considered importing cars into the US? I knew a guy (from a job I left 4 yrs ago) who imported 90's Japanese sports cars with the wheel on the left hand side, each car he said he made about $2k on.

[ChiPolo]

(09-06-2013 10:44 AM)Tytalus Wrote:  

Chipolo have you considered importing cars into the US? I knew a guy (from a job I left 4 yrs ago) who imported 90's Japanese sports cars with the wheel on the left hand side, each car he said he made about $2k on.

I have...

And it's a damn pain in the ass. Duties are high, EPA restrictions are terrible, you have to jump through a lot of hoops, paperwork is astronomical -- not worth the effort.

Unless you're doing imports for pre-purchased baller cars that owners need help with the import part -- kind of like import trouble shooting, more as a service thing though.

Otherwise...not worth it.

[ChiPolo]

(09-05-2013 10:44 PM)paninaro Wrote:  

OK I understand better now. I'd say just roll the dice and give it a go. Go down there, find some guys (local dealers) and tell them "I'll sell you car X for $Y FOB to your country, and then you can do with it as you please. " So to start off, they are in charge of selling it, and you just provide them with good product at a good price. Let them figure out their local market.

That will allow you to work out the logistics and see if there is really a market. After you get that worked out, you can start taking more of the pie on the local side through other arrangements.

At this point, I think you just need to see if the concept in general works. Worry about margins later -- first prove the concept.

Pan -- The 'ole shit-or-get-off-the-pot argument i see...

You're right, only hesitation is trusting a crooked used car salesmen in a foreign country.

Hate to play off occupational stereotypes, but depending on the region and mentality, I've seen some awful things being done to cars prior to sale. For example, in Chicago? The difference between buying a car on the Northside and Southside is night and day. It's a concrete jungle on the southside -- in more ways than one. Won't go into details.

That's why I was kind of hoping I'd get some interest on this forum. More inclined to trust someone that wants a constant revenue stream and sees the benefits long term rather than a car salesman in a corrupt country that can take the money and run -- and the truth is, I wouldn't be able to do a damn thing about it.

[ChiPolo]

(09-05-2013 10:44 PM)paninaro Wrote:  

OK I understand better now. I'd say just roll the dice and give it a go. Go down there, find some guys (local dealers) and tell them "I'll sell you car X for $Y FOB to your country, and then you can do with it as you please. " So to start off, they are in charge of selling it, and you just provide them with good product at a good price. Let them figure out their local market.

That will allow you to work out the logistics and see if there is really a market. After you get that worked out, you can start taking more of the pie on the local side through other arrangements.

At this point, I think you just need to see if the concept in general works. Worry about margins later -- first prove the concept.

But again, you're right. But why should they trust me? I guess I'll have to try and see.

Also thinking there might be people on this forum that have automotive contacts that can ask around, be a middle man, and take a cut. That would help tremendously...

[paninaro]

(09-06-2013 12:05 PM)ChiPolo Wrote:  

Pan -- The 'ole shit-or-get-off-the-pot argument i see...

You're right, only hesitation is trusting a crooked used car salesmen in a foreign country.

...

That's why I was kind of hoping I'd get some interest on this forum. More inclined to trust someone that wants a constant revenue stream and sees the benefits long term rather than a car salesman in a corrupt country that can take the money and run -- and the truth is, I wouldn't be able to do a damn thing about it.

That's just risk, and it's why you get a reward (profit) if it works out. Same as any other business. Spend $$ to build a widget (risk) and hope people buy it (reward).

I'm assuming you already do a brisk business in the US, so taking the risk that some dealer in a foreign country rips you off will just be an annoyance vs. losing your house. That's why I'm saying just give it a go and see what happens.

If you want to reduce the dealer risk, just go down there and find a few of them and work with all of them -- they can't all be crooked, or if they are, maybe not all crooked at the same time

[AntiTrace]

Talked to the bus guys again. He gave me a bit more of rundown on the hustle. He basically said to just start advertising buses online, regardless of if you have them or not. He said out of 100 people that contact you, only two-three of those will be dependable guys worthy of going into business with man. He hasn't even met that majority of guys he does regular business with. They negotiate the prices and the buyer sends middlemen up to drive them down. He liked my idea of flying down to El Salvador to find some contacts.

He also said they load up the buses with a bunch of shit while they are up here. $200 flat screen TVs, dirt bikes, smartphones, etc. The biggest risk in that is a dirty customs guy or a cartel stopping you and taking all this shit, he said he has heard of that happening only once though.

Claims the cartels are the only threat to the idea. Said you gotta bring a good amount of bribe cash with you and hire an armed escort or two once you cross the border. Said the cartels know the game, they want some cash and will normally send you on your way with no other problems, they want you to keep coming back and if they straight up rob you blind it probably wont happen.

Id think the best course of action in that hustle would be to setup the deal with a buyer and hire a driver to move the bus after you load it up with shit. Meanwhile, you be at the destination with a house rented out to store all the shit you loaded up. The driver goes to your place, unloads everything, then delivers to the dealer while you work on hustling off all the goods. That removes you from the most stressful and dangerous part of moving the bus.

[dirt]

RE: El Salvador and other central american countries...
Many central americans with a work permit or visiting the states will buy an Isuzu "cabover" mid size truck and a couple of small import pickups (actually old, small diesel pickups which are rare here too) and load one on the truck and tow the other down there. Not sure about profit margins but I've seen it done a lot.

[ChiPolo]

(09-07-2013 08:58 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

Talked to the bus guys again. He gave me a bit more of rundown on the hustle. He basically said to just start advertising buses online, regardless of if you have them or not. He said out of 100 people that contact you, only two-three of those will be dependable guys worthy of going into business with man. He hasn't even met that majority of guys he does regular business with. They negotiate the prices and the buyer sends middlemen up to drive them down. He liked my idea of flying down to El Salvador to find some contacts.

He also said they load up the buses with a bunch of shit while they are up here. $200 flat screen TVs, dirt bikes, smartphones, etc. The biggest risk in that is a dirty customs guy or a cartel stopping you and taking all this shit, he said he has heard of that happening only once though.

Claims the cartels are the only threat to the idea. Said you gotta bring a good amount of bribe cash with you and hire an armed escort or two once you cross the border. Said the cartels know the game, they want some cash and will normally send you on your way with no other problems, they want you to keep coming back and if they straight up rob you blind it probably wont happen.

Id think the best course of action in that hustle would be to setup the deal with a buyer and hire a driver to move the bus after you load it up with shit. Meanwhile, you be at the destination with a house rented out to store all the shit you loaded up. The driver goes to your place, unloads everything, then delivers to the dealer while you work on hustling off all the goods. That removes you from the most stressful and dangerous part of moving the bus.

Customs would be all over the additional items inside the bus -- now Im not familiar Mexican or Guatemalan Customs, but are you paying duties on all the gadgets?

Im sure any bumps along the road look very different with few gringos drivin.

Still sounds interesting though...

[BoneDaddy]

Hey CP,

Interesting thread, thanks for sharing.

Is your family biz a new car dealership, or independent used car sales and service?

I've had a longstanding interest in the buy-here pay-here model. I see some very prosperous looking buy here/pay here lots in my travels around.

[ChiPolo]

(09-09-2013 11:16 AM)BoneDaddy Wrote:  

Hey CP,

Interesting thread, thanks for sharing.

Is your family biz a new car dealership, or independent used car sales and service?

I've had a longstanding interest in the buy-here pay-here model. I see some very prosperous looking buy here/pay here lots in my travels around.

Small, Independent, Volvo Specialist, service/sales -- are you currently traveling?

[BoneDaddy]

(09-09-2013 03:30 PM)ChiPolo Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 11:16 AM)BoneDaddy Wrote:  

Hey CP,

Interesting thread, thanks for sharing.

Is your family biz a new car dealership, or independent used car sales and service?

I've had a longstanding interest in the buy-here pay-here model. I see some very prosperous looking buy here/pay here lots in my travels around.

Small, Independent, Volvo Specialist, service/sales -- are you currently traveling?

Other than the occasional brief trip abroad, I'm in the US. I do travel, but its mostly back and forth between TN and FL. I'm a corporate slave, although on a long leash between HQ in TN and an operation down in Tampa which has become my second home for about one week out of each month.