[Roadrunner]

First time I heard about IF I admit I was skeptical. Fasting is against everything I knew about nutrition. But I was wrong and IF is solid. I think I had shared earlier on the board that I lost about 10% body fat from Paleo. Well I went on vacation and came back having gained 2% body fat, sitting on 20%. I started Paleo and got down to 18% again but I was unsatisfied with the speed of progress. I began IF and in the first 4 days itself I dropped 2 pounds. The results have stayed consistently great so far. I have increased my muscle size during IF as well. There is no issue with hunger and I take no supplements. What I do is I break my fast at 1, during school hours, and my feeding stops at around 9. I workout with calisthenics sometime during that time frame because with school I don't have the luxury of training fasted unless I want to get up at 5.
If you want to lose weight and gain muscle I highly suggest IF. Go onto lean gains and read up like I did, it pays off.

[WanderingSoul]

Panda, what does your meal plan look like? Here in BKK I have a pretty limited supply to choose from of stuff that isn't imported. Trying to get more ideas on what to eat for my meals besides grilled chicken breast, rice/potatoes/sweet potatoes/pasta, and salads/broccoli.

I bought a slow cooker for $50, and it's a big pile of shit. It boils shit like crazy even on the low setting. Fuckin Thai brands. So that pretty much fucked up my plans for slow cooked chicken, stews, chili, etc.

The imported ones all cost $150-$200 here. Gonna see if I can get some sort of fire resistant material to put between the bowl and the heating conduit and reduce the heat without burning my apartment down.

[Roadrunner]

(09-13-2013 08:39 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Panda, what does your meal plan look like? Here in BKK I have a pretty limited supply to choose from of stuff that isn't imported. Trying to get more ideas on what to eat for my meals besides grilled chicken breast, rice/potatoes/sweet potatoes/pasta, and salads/broccoli.

I bought a slow cooker for $50, and it's a big pile of shit. It boils shit like crazy even on the low setting. Fuckin Thai brands. So that pretty much fucked up my plans for slow cooked chicken, stews, chili, etc.

The imported ones all cost $150-$200 here. Gonna see if I can get some sort of fire resistant material to put between the bowl and the heating conduit and reduce the heat without burning my apartment down.

Man my meal plan is boring as hell. I wake up in the morning to make some scrambled eggs and sausage. I pack that along with an apple, some turkey breast and any other kind of cold meat that I have. I eat all of that during school hours at 1 o clock. I come home and have some chicken salad, the type you can get at harris teeter, with a little hot sauce to add zest. I don't eat anything else until 7:30 when I eat a couple servings of vegetables, like bittergourd or brinjal, with some form of meat. If at that point I don't feel as if I ate enough I usually have nuts.

Since you live in bangkok I would say you should get used to fish, avoid big fish due to mercury content but its just stuff like tuna and shark that you have to be worried about. Apart from fish you should be able to find stuff like mushrooms and nuts. Keep in mind that your diet is not going to represent that of most thai people, they take rice in the biggest quantities as it is the cheapest. Even though I am in a rice eating family and culture I avoid it because of the fact that it's just empty calories but if you are on a budget and want to hit your caloric need then you can eat brown rice, which is marginally better than white rice.

[FretDancer]

Hey guys, long time no update here. I see there's been some discussion going on, thats good.

I am 1 day from completing 1 month on Intermittent Fasting. However, since September 3rd I am having even more trouble since I now live in Taiwan. I live in a campus dorm so I can't cook, this makes me hard to intake my necessary daily protein, its been tough.

Sometimes I eat fish steaks for the protein or noodles with chicken, but I still fear its not enough. Counting calories is now more impossible than ever, since I don't buy the food from the supermarket, I always eat outside. I still try to eat as healthy as possible.

Regarding the fasting, I still fast more than 12 hours everyday, however its been hard to make it to 16 hours sometimes.

I have been taking progress pictures and I feel and see that I have lost some fat, specially on the abdominal area. I have no idea how much weight I've lost/gained but I will try to get the number very soon.

I'm excited on what the progress will be like after 2 more months!

On another note, I've been reading alot a website shared by RioNomad on this thread or another IF thread, its very very good and heavily recommended: http://rippedbody.jp/

Together with Lean Gains, it makes a great source of information and motivation.

Regarding my training, I am making the switch to 3 Day Reverse Pyramid Training. I will focus heavily on Bench, Deadlifts, Squats, Pullups, and maybe Overhead Press too. Only training 3 days a week. I want to give this regimen a try for 1 month and see the results.

[Hades]

Resistance training and IF is a winning combination towards serious body recomp. Good luck.

The secret to burning fat all the time whether you're fasting or not is to keep your glycogen stores low. So basically, don't be afraid to take a protein-heavy "cheat-day" or even two or three cheat days to eat several pounds of beef, pork, or chicken if you can find it.
It helps break the monotony of intermittent fasting and can reduce the likelihood of potential adrenal fatigue issues you might get. If you eat enough protein and fast hard enough you might just drop into straight keto. I did a few times.
Nobody ever got fat from eating lots of protein (protein is muscle sparing, while carbs are muscle and fat-sparing) and the thermogenic and muscle-sparing quality of protein itself is going to ensure that your metabolic rate (and LBM) stay very high.

I also used to drink a small amount of heavily salted butter (about a tablespoon) in my morning coffee during my intermittent fast if I really felt like shit. Sometimes I think that bodyfat itself is resistant to being burned and a more available fat in the form of butter is going to keep the fat-burning hormones rolling but it will provide you with a more available form of energy.
My other guess is that dehydration occurs during the night, not enough water can impede lipolysis to the extent that your system is starving for fat but none can be released from your fatty tissues, so it responds by lowering your energy. It's like a hangover.

Keep this in mind as well, salt is your friend during fasting, it can help keep your energy up and weirdly enough I had almost no appetite to break a fast without it. Once I started eating the salt that I craved (and pissing gallons) I quit sleeping that miserable "always-tired" 11 or 12 hours a day and went right back to 7 or 8 and feeling more rested.

This is also going to sound like bullshit, but the reason you get "drunk munchies" during a night out is because alcohol destroys your glycogen stores. Low glycogen (or blood sugar, or whatever) causes hunger and activates the burning of fat.
You can take advantage of this phenomena by taking about two to five stiff drinks of clear liquor about two hours after a meal and right at the beginning of a fast to flush all the glycogen out of your body and burn fat almost immediately (once you're done processing the alcohol of course). Couple that with a little slightly tipsy bodyweight resistance training or a quick session of HIT and you're going to burn a stupid amount of fat. I did this a few times for a "crash fast" when I was just fucking around after a night out on a Wednesday (skipped the sandwich shop) but the hunger can be uncomfortable and that much liquor can disturb a good night's sleep.

[FretDancer]

Thanks for the advice Hades. Are you still doing IF? If so, how long have you been doing it so?

[Hades]

(09-17-2013 04:07 AM)FretDancer Wrote:  

Thanks for the advice Hades. Are you still doing IF? If so, how long have you been doing it so?

I quit for the last eight months or so, the reasons being outlined in these threads.

Must have lost the link to this one because I was going to reply to these guys, but yeah, in short, adrenal fatigue and what to watch out for --
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-20334.html

Here is another great tip on how to burn a little more fat. Drink buckets of ice-cold water, it's thermogenic; I did some math as well --
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-26671-...#pid506839

With fasting I went too hard, too quickly and ruined my hormones for a while due to lack of food.

I bust ass all day at a manual labor job and lift more weights now so fasting isn't for me at the moment. Leanness is not a huge immediate concern with winter coming anyway and I'm slowly getting leaner as it is.

[FretDancer]

Thanks for the links Hades. I haven't experienced any fatigue whatsoever since I started fasting. Actually I realized I can fast for a pretty long time without realizing it when its after 1pm or so.

Also it seems that the gym here in the campus doesn't have a flat bench rack, just an incline rack. There is a smith machine that I could do flat bench with but I've never liked smith machines. I saw some guys the other day putting a flat bench in the squat rack and doing flat bench press like that but I am not sure if I wanna try that. I guess I should call tough luck and stick with incline press?

[Therapsid]

(09-26-2013 12:42 AM)FretDancer Wrote:  

Thanks for the links Hades. I haven't experienced any fatigue whatsoever since I started fasting. Actually I realized I can fast for a pretty long time without realizing it when its after 1pm or so.

Also it seems that the gym here in the campus doesn't have a flat bench rack, just an incline rack. There is a smith machine that I could do flat bench with but I've never liked smith machines. I saw some guys the other day putting a flat bench in the squat rack and doing flat bench press like that but I am not sure if I wanna try that. I guess I should call tough luck and stick with incline press?

No, use the smith machine. If you're doing incline bench, it's good to do flat with a smith. If you're militantly opposed to that, you could always do dumbbell presses on a makeshift flat bench like an appropriately sized table. You can even do it on the floor for partial flat bench presses.

From there, you can move on to doing decline presses. Without a bench that can go decline, you can do decline presses with a smith machine and flat bench just by propping your legs up and holding your back up at a 45 degree angle, so long as you keep the weight at a moderate level.

[FretDancer]

Update

I am currently on my 6th week and almost 7th week of being in IF. I have taken many pictures on every month since I started (August 19th 2013) until now.

Since I moved to Taiwan stuff got a little complicated by I am slowly getting the hang of it and try to improve my progress, which might be a little slow. I weighted myself and my current weight is approximately 65.8kg which is roughly 146lbs, which is almost the same as my starting weight. I really have no idea how much my body weight has fluctuated (ignoring water retention) since I moved here.

I do feel I have lost some fat on my abdominal area and obliques. Also I feel my chest has grown a little bigger.

Regarding more concrete progress, here are some observations:

• My strength has increased in all 4 excercises (Deadlift, Pullups, Squats, Bench Press). This happens with more weight in some or more reps in others (with top weight)
• Deadlift form and Squat form (ass to grass) has improved alot. I have ripped 2 boxers from deadlifting and squatting so I made a switch to boxer briefs on my training days.
• Amount of pullups have increased alot and it feels I can do them with less effort. This is why I now do pullups with extra weight.
  

On another note, I have started measuring my progress differently now, according to this page. This means I now take my measurements in my limbs, chest, hips and stomach, I enter all this data measurements in a spreadsheet I am gonna be keeping from now on. I probably started doing this a little late but better late than never.

I am gonna post this spreadsheet after a few weeks until I have more data to share.

This is a progress picture for October:

Abs are coming out slowly, but I am confident in a few more weeks the results will be much better.

[vandrare]

Looks like you are on track! I myself did around 6 weeks of IF this spring. I stopped doing it over the summer because of too much travel but just restarted IF/ leangains. My usual schedule these days is to get up around 8 in the morning, and to work out around noon. What really made a difference for me was starting to ingest 5g BCAA directly after waking up, both for general well-being and to prevent falling into a catabolic state.

[PompeyChris]

Fret, any updates?

[FretDancer]

Wow, it's been almost a year since my last post here.

I am bumping this thread because I have a minor update, but mainly because I will be updating it more.

A brief explanation on what happened after the last post:
During this time, I fasted around 16 hours, some days I fasted even more. I managed to get around maybe 11-12% body fat. However I was not tracking my calories whatsoever. I would eat outside and I would always have a guess of how many calories and macros I was consuming. I was probably underestimating calories, so I never got any leaner. But I didn't gain any more weight/fat either, I stayed the same pretty much all this year until now.

I got used to this kind of eating, and like I said, I neither gained nor lost any more weight.

Fast Forward to September:
Fast forward to August, I came back from a trip to SEA which I might have lost 1 or 2 pounds, I came back and it's been almost 3 weeks since I have been tracking my calories and working out consistently 3 times a week, using RPT (Reverse Pyramid Training), Fasting from 16 - 20 hours.

I made September 02 2014 a new starting point. I probably calculated my maintenance calories too low and also my deficit was probably too low (~35%). But that is different starting from yesterday, but I will get to this later.

What I did in this 3 weeks period (Sept. 02 - Sept. 22):
So I calculated my maintenance calories and macros, and settled for a -35% deficit. Here's layed out:

Height: 5'7
Weight: 143lbs

Calories
Maintenance: 2079 calories
Workout Day Calories: 2079 calories
Rest Day Calories: 1330 calories
Deficit: 36%
Weekly Deficit: 2994 calories

Macros
Workout Day:

• Protein: 222g
• Carbs: 195g
• Fat: 32g
  

Rest Day:

• Protein: 183g
• Carbs: 62g
• Fat: 53g
  

As you can see my calories for my rest days are miserable, with such a high deficit. Although I didn't have a problem with that much. I would weigh myself every week and analyze my results after 3 weeks in order to make adjustments.

My weight fluctuated a lot during the weeks, as I expected. The problem was the fat loss was stalling (something I also knew it was likely to happen) and after 3 weeks (today) I still do not know how much fat loss occurred. With a -36% deficit there must be some fat loss right?

At this point I was not sure what to do, I knew water weight or something else was messing with me, and that was fine but I needed an accurate measure, since the idea is to make adjustments after every 3 weeks (if needed), the adjustment is key.

Take a look at the chart above. The key measurements here are every Tuesday, so that would be:

Sept. 02: 142.8 lbs
Sept. 09: 143.8 lbs
Sept. 16: 142.4 lbs
Sept. 23: 141.8 lbs (today)

So that means I only lost 1 pound of fat. It could be that the fat loss is still stalling and maybe a few days from now it will drop even more. I really do not know.

So, I started reading some great information from Lyle McDonald about high deficits, [2]. basically they can hurt your fat loss.

So I decided to make an adjustment, in this adjustment however I am raising my calories. It seems a little contradictory, and it might be. But after reading the data I linked, I really want to give it a try. Likewise, just 3 more weeks.

September 22 - Beyond
A forum member posted a link to this website on another thread. and I decided to check it out. I took a look at the IIFYM Calculator and examined my results. According to the calculator, my Maintenance calories are actually ~2205. That is 200+ calories from the previous calculation.

This time I wanted to settle for a more flexible caloric deficit, -15%. This is how my new macros look now:

Calories:
Maintenance: 2205 cals
Workout Day: 2205 cals
Rest Day: 1875 cals
Deficit %: 15%
Weekly Deficit: 1323 cals

Macros:
Workout Day:

• Protein: 214g
• Carbs: 240g
• Fat: 43g
  

Rest Day:

• Protein: 214.5g
• Carbs: 93g
• 72g
  

As you can see Protein is high on both days. And I consider it high because this is aprox. 1.5g of protein per pound of mass (not LBM).

Sometimes I cannot hit my macros exactly how they are layed out, sometimes I eat 10 more grams of fat or sometimes I don't hit the 93g of carbs on my rest day. But I always hit my Protein number.

Additionally, I now track my calories. And I do this in two ways:

1. Meal Plan Spreadsheet
I created an Excel spreadsheet where I put all the foods I find and that I want to include in my diet, with all it's macro-nutrient information, like this:

As you can see I have separate spaces for Rest Days and Workout Days, each with their own Total values. I can change the quantity number and the nutrition values will update according to the quantity I input. This way I can see the totals and try to match it according to the values I calculated and listed before.

Every time I encounter a new food, I add it's data and try to see if it works in my meal plan or not.

Some foods however (like the Chicken Breast and Tilapia) do not provide their nutritional information, so I have to base my values on data provided by Google, CalorieKing and similar websites.

2. Using MyFitnessPal
I use this pretty handy app to help me track my calories and macros as well. I simply create my foods in the app using the exact numbers in my spreadsheet, and add them to my daily diary according to their quantity.

At the end of the day, the total calories and macros that the app displays should be very similar to what the spreadsheet says:

With this app I can also track my daily/weekly weight. I weigh myself every end of the week, so on this day I will input my weight. The app will store all these entries and will create a chart that shows the weigh changes. This is the chart I showed before.

Result Pictures
Here are some pictures I took today (Measurement: 141.8 lbs)
See more pictures here.

Final Thoughts
I feel this time I can really get down to where I want. I really like my body, I'm not a big guy by any means and I don't really want to be, although I will most likely bulk once I hit my desired BF%.

It is just a matter of tracking results, and making adjustments based on them, and being very patient. I hope with this new adjustment things will go better even though the calories are higher. If not, I'll just end up lowering them again...

I'll try updating this thread with progress every 3 weeks. With new data and possibly pictures.

Meanwhile you guys can still ask me any questions you have.

[Al Sahab]

Nice one FretDancer.

I started Leangains about 3.5 weeks ago. I have similar stats to you and saw similar progress and am sticking to similar macros. Last week I weighed 67.2kg, going down from 67.8kg the previous week. My strength has gone up in all exercises except the overhead press (if you have any tips on how to improve on OHP let me know because I've been stuck for a while).

Fortunately my new job involves a fair amount of walking, so I'll be doing some low intensity cardios in the morning hours, and should be able to fit in a workout at around 2pm.

I was on a ketogenic diet for a couple of months before leangains, and as lyle mcdonald said the caloric deficit (easier to have when in ketosis) screwed with my fat loss. Since upping my caloric intake I've noticed increased fat loss. I think carb cycling + intermittent fasting is great for an endo-meso like me.

I probably read the same resources as you, but here's something that was quite useful for me: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fdpfgq3csty0gv...ngains.pdf

- from an ex Berkhan client. The macros seemed a little off for me; carb intake seemed a little high so I cut down. Hope it helps and thanks for the info.

[FretDancer]

(09-23-2014 05:17 PM)Al Sahab Wrote:  

Nice one FretDancer.

I started Leangains about 3.5 weeks ago. I have similar stats to you and saw similar progress and am sticking to similar macros. Last week I weighed 67.2kg, going down from 67.8kg the previous week. My strength has gone up in all exercises except the overhead press (if you have any tips on how to improve on OHP let me know because I've been stuck for a while).

Al Sahab nice to see that you are experiencing progress. I too have plateauing problems with Flat Bench Press and Overhead Press so I think I'm not really qualified to help you there.

(09-23-2014 05:17 PM)Al Sahab Wrote:  

I was on a ketogenic diet for a couple of months before leangains, and as lyle mcdonald said the caloric deficit (easier to have when in ketosis) screwed with my fat loss. Since upping my caloric intake I've noticed increased fat loss. I think carb cycling + intermittent fasting is great for an endo-meso like me.

Yes, it's crazy. The body is really an interesting thing. According to Lyle, and what I understand, it has something to do with Cortisol levels raising due to stress. And since we are already giving the body stress by fasting (and training fasted), I guess it contributes more to this weird phenomenon.

(09-23-2014 05:17 PM)Al Sahab Wrote:  

I probably read the same resources as you, but here's something that was quite useful for me: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fdpfgq3csty0gv...ngains.pdf

- from an ex Berkhan client. The macros seemed a little off for me; carb intake seemed a little high so I cut down. Hope it helps and thanks for the info.

Al, this is exactly the same resource I have been using these past weeks since I came back from SEA. Funny thing is, it was shared to me by another forum member ages ago! And it was not until recent that I really read it carefully and slowly.

However, my first macro and caloric calculation I shared on this post was based on this resource. How? Doing like he said, I calculated my weight percentage compared to his (143lbs and 200lbs), this was around 73%. So I took 73% of all his macros.

Now, the reason why I had a huge deficit on that calculation (~ -36%) has some explanation. As you know, 31minutes says he has a weekly deficit of ~4000 calories, that is more than the ~3600 calories to burn 1 pound of fat statement. I wanted to do the same, but my maintenance calories were already kind of low. The only way for me to even reach ~3500 was with a deficit as high as the one I said before. This is because I ate at maintenance on the workout days.

Now I think not having a weekly caloric deficit of ~3600 cals or more is not bad. Fat loss should still occur even on a moderate deficit (like -15%). The fat loss might be less and slower, or it might be faster (Remember the effect Lyle talks about). I guess I will find out in these new 3 weeks.

On another note, I got another measurement for today. And it is actually a decrease in weight. All my previous fluctuations were increase in weight, so I guess this must be a legit one.

As of today: 140.4 lbs

This indicates a 2.4lbs loss. Like I said in my previous post, it is possible that this was due to my first -35% deficit, and now that I have raised my calories, the fat loss is started to manifest (Like Lyle explained). It might be possible than in this week I might wake up and actually look leaner.

We will see.

[samsamsam]

(09-23-2014 09:23 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 05:17 PM)Al Sahab Wrote:  

I was on a ketogenic diet for a couple of months before leangains, and as lyle mcdonald said the caloric deficit (easier to have when in ketosis) screwed with my fat loss. Since upping my caloric intake I've noticed increased fat loss. I think carb cycling + intermittent fasting is great for an endo-meso like me.

Yes, it's crazy. The body is really an interesting thing. According to Lyle, and what I understand, it has something to do with Cortisol levels raising due to stress. And since we are already giving the body stress by fasting (and training fasted), I guess it contributes more to this weird phenomenon.

So I do IF. And just eat what I like but don't try to go crazy on eating. If I read what you guys are saying, cutting calories while on IF while actually not help with fat loss? May I trouble you for a specific link where I might read more about this? It just seems like you guys know exactly where this info might be. Thanks.

[FretDancer]

(09-23-2014 09:32 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 09:23 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 05:17 PM)Al Sahab Wrote:  

I was on a ketogenic diet for a couple of months before leangains, and as lyle mcdonald said the caloric deficit (easier to have when in ketosis) screwed with my fat loss. Since upping my caloric intake I've noticed increased fat loss. I think carb cycling + intermittent fasting is great for an endo-meso like me.

Yes, it's crazy. The body is really an interesting thing. According to Lyle, and what I understand, it has something to do with Cortisol levels raising due to stress. And since we are already giving the body stress by fasting (and training fasted), I guess it contributes more to this weird phenomenon.

So I do IF. And just eat what I like but don't try to go crazy on eating. If I read what you guys are saying, cutting calories while on IF while actually not help with fat loss?

samsamsam:

It depends. First of all, we are all clear that there must be a significant caloric deficit present in order for fat loss to occur.

So when you say "If I read what you guys are saying, cutting calories while on IF while actually not help with fat loss?" it is incorrect, since cutting calories is the only way to fat loss.

Now, the catch here is how many calories you cut, in other words, how aggressive your deficit is (Take my first one for example, -36% cals). It is sometimes in these cases that fat loss can be exaggeratedly stalled.

This might be due to the increase of Cortisol due to stress of dieting, a way too aggressive deficit, and probably (but not necessarily) fasting as well. Like we all know, not all bodies react the same way.

Quote:

May I trouble you for a specific link where I might read more about this? It just seems like you guys know exactly where this info might be. Thanks.

Check out these two articles by Lyle McDonald. Very informative:

• Why Big Caloric Deficits and Lots of Activity Can Hurt Fat Loss
• The LTDFLE
  

[Al Sahab]

(09-23-2014 09:23 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

Now I think not having a weekly caloric deficit of ~3600 cals or more is not bad. Fat loss should still occur even on a moderate deficit (like -15%). The fat loss might be less and slower, or it might be faster (Remember the effect Lyle talks about). I guess I will find out in these new 3 weeks.

Yup. I'm more reluctant to have a large deficit than I am a small one because I have experienced the adverse effects first hand.

I am going to figure out maintenance calories through trial and error. I've made my target maintenance intake 2100kcal and target rest day intake 1600kcal. This should give me a nice 24% deficit on rest days and a 2000kcal deficit over the course of a week.

I'll stick with it and see what happens. I'll either tinker up or down but the important thing is to track progress.

It's cool that someone else here is approaching this with the same mindset as I am. At first I was reluctant to track myself but it's actually very interesting to think of your body as a scientific experiment. Also it will hopefully give me a definitive personal answer to the conundrum of fat loss and muscle maintenance/gain.

[FretDancer]

(09-24-2014 02:46 PM)Al Sahab Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 09:23 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

Now I think not having a weekly caloric deficit of ~3600 cals or more is not bad. Fat loss should still occur even on a moderate deficit (like -15%). The fat loss might be less and slower, or it might be faster (Remember the effect Lyle talks about). I guess I will find out in these new 3 weeks.

Yup. I'm more reluctant to have a large deficit than I am a small one because I have experienced the adverse effects first hand.

I am going to figure out maintenance calories through trial and error. I've made my target maintenance intake 2100kcal and target rest day intake 1600kcal. This should give me a nice 24% deficit on rest days and a 2000kcal deficit over the course of a week.

I'll stick with it and see what happens. I'll either tinker up or down but the important thing is to track progress.

It's cool that someone else here is approaching this with the same mindset as I am. At first I was reluctant to track myself but it's actually very interesting to think of your body as a scientific experiment. Also it will hopefully give me a definitive personal answer to the conundrum of fat loss and muscle maintenance/gain.

Yes, the adjustment is key, probably the most important thing. Everybody wants to nail it down on the first try, and that's where I think many people go wrong and then give up.

What you could try is using many of the calculators found online, enter your data and see what results come out, and finally base your calculation based on the data you think it's best.

During those weeks (3 weeks is what's recommended) you should also track how you are feeling about it in general, how you feel about the deficit. If you feel like shit then that is a very good hint that you should relax your deficit a bit.

Good look man and keep us updated with your progress.

[kosko]

For those living abroad whom are having trouble with food intake minus supplements like protein look into milk powder. It isn't protein packed like whey with only 15 grams of protein per serving but it offers some factor of ease as something you can have at breakfast/dinner very easily. Also you will have to broaden the pallet. Unless your in India then some type of flesh/protein will be a staple. For those in SE Asia this is likely fish and you should be able to track down a type you like. My buddy lived off whitefish, ground pork, and fish balls for protein since he (by choice) couldn't ditch his staples when he came back from a exchange in Asia.

[FretDancer]

Update

November 11 2014

It's been a while since my last update. I don't have much to report other than that my fat loss is going steady, slow, but steady.

Yesterday I drank loads of water, in order to obtain the most accurate scale measurement I could today:

Today's Measurement: 139.2lbs

I am losing around 0.5 - 1lbs of fat per week, probably somewhere in the middle of that. It's a small amount, but this way I feel I am not losing any muscle.

Training
Training wise I have not lost any strength, some of my lifts are even going up like my Squat, Leg Press, Overhead Press, and Barbell Curls.

Diet
Diet wise I am now eating at ~1600 calories per day on both Rest & Workout days (unlike before, which I ate at maintenance on workout days). Despite of this, I still haven't experience any strength loses.

Additionally, starting this week (yesterday) I am now going low-carb even on workout days. Before I would eat more carbs on workout days to help me recover. However now I am going full low-carb for a few days (maybe 4 or 5) in order to stay low-insulin, and target my stubborn body fat which I still have on my abdominal region.

Supplements
The only supplement I am taking is fish oil. I take 6 capsules of 1g each everyday, that makes it 6g of fish oil per day. I am not taking any whey protein.

Pictures
Here are some pictures I took today. Sadly the lightning where I have a mirror is not so good.

See more pictures here.

Other Thoughts:
Even though I am losing fat, I want to add that my diet is not 100% strict. On weekends I tend to eat whatever I want to eat. Sometimes protein requirements are not met, or maybe fat or carbohydrates requirements are exceeded. You could call it a frequent diet break if you will.

[WanderingSoul]

Starting to get pretty lean. Do you plan to bulk soon?

[FretDancer]

(11-11-2014 10:38 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Starting to get pretty lean. Do you plan to bulk soon?

My plan is once I can get rid of my abdominal fat, I will eat at maintenance for a few weeks, maybe 2 or 3. This is just to see what happens during these weeks while eating at maintenance (or close to), if I regain fat, or whatever.

If after this period I am still as lean as before starting it. I will begin to bulk, really slowly. Trying to not gain fat as much as I can.

This will probably only allow me to gain around 0.5lbs of lean muscle mass per week, at most and if done right...

The problem with bulking in such a low amount is that I do not know how to track this progress. How to know if the added weight is not fat, or part of a chunk of water weight? I am still a bit clueless about it. I don't wanna "bulk" and end up with more fat again when it took me so much trouble to get rid of it in the first place.

Wish me luck.

[FretDancer]

Had to fix some settings where I stored my progress pictures. You can now view the progress pictures here.

Also, check out my latest post about the most common mistakes and misconceptions when doing Intermittent Fasting:

Top 5 Mistakes & Misconceptions When Doing Intermittent Fasting

[FretDancer]

Update

It's been a while since my last update in this thread.

I stopped dieting not much after posting those updates. I stopped counting calories and probably only did so like 2 or 3 times a week (usually on training days). Reason is because I got tired of cooking, and I got tired of eating the same food all the time that allowed me to track my calories and macros.

Since I live in campus and there are a few nice good restaurants here, I would frequent those instead.

I would still always try to cycle my fat and carbs between training and rest days and "try" to eat at a deficit or at least maintenance, but otherwise I wasn't really counting calories.

After about 3 weeks I decided to take some pictures again to see what happened. Here are a few:

See more pictures here.

As you can see there is barely any difference between last update's photos.

What I want to point out here is that even after a relatively long period of taking a break (aprox. 3 weeks, maybe more) I still managed to stay relatively lean.

Sure, it is possible some small fat gain occurred, but overall is not really noticeable from last time.

Since I have been dieting for too long I have decided to stop and I am now preparing to slow bulk.

However I am gonna keep a few things in mind:
- Stay in a caloric deficit on rest days.
- Caloric surplus on training days. A surplus of about 20% calories, maximum.

This is basically the protocol that Martin suggests in LeanGains. I am still confident that I can build muscle even when on a caloric deficit on rest days only.

I expect to put on around 0.5lbs of lean muscle per week, best case scenario, but im not counting on this.

Still, I am not gonna focus on how much muscle I am putting on a weekly basis. Just eat, and stay on your caloric range with the right macros, and lift.