[FretDancer]

Hello gentlemen, it's been a while since I browsed and posted on this forum. I decided to come back starting a thread on my recent journey on Intermittent Fasting.

Prior to have started IF, I read the forum's Intermittent Fasting thread and read a lot of Martin Berkhan's blog Lean Gains.

Once I've read and understood many of the concepts that were involved, I decided to make the switch. So far I've been on IF for only 1 week, but I have gained 3 pounds and feel much better.

I am making this thread to post my progress, which will be mainly reflected with pictures.

Background
Age: 22
Height: ~1.75m - 5'7ft
Weight when started: 145lbs
Starting Date: Monday August 19 2013

Fasting Description
My fasting is very basic and simple. I fast at least 16 hours a day and have a feeding window of 8 hours. Sometimes I fast more depending on how busy I am and what time I go to the gym.

One thing however, is that I always train in a fasted state. Having ingested 10g of BCAA prior to this workout, as outlined in the Lean Gains guide.

This is a basic schedule:
11am: Wake up (Im on vacations): I have basically fasted all night from 12am - 11am
2pm: Ingest BCAA 5 mins prior to workout. Begin my workout fasted.
4:30pm: My first meal after workout. This where I break my fast and I eat alot, carbs, protein, and healthy fats.
6:30pm: My second meal.
8:30: A possible third meal. This meal I usually don't eat anything cooked, I just eat alot of carbs like bread, bananas, and some protein like eggs, cottage cheese and peanut butter.

Here are my first pictures after 1 week of Intermittent Fasting.

Current Weight: ~148lbs. A roughly +3 gain.

As you can see I still have some stubborn fat in my abdominal area which I am trying to burn. I believe that after 2 months of Intermittent Fasting I will achieve some notable progress.

Some thoughts

• My fasting sometimes exceeds the desired time (16 hours). This is because sometimes I go to the gym late for many reasons, thus I end up fasting 2 or 3 hours more than usual. This does not make me feel any weaker whatsoever, but makes me crave that 1st meal even more.
• I weight myself as soon as I get up in a completely fasted state. I drink a cup of green tea right after that.
  

Feel free to comment and ask questions.

[luggage]

Hey Fret

This may be a stupid question but can you go on a bulk while on intermittent fasting?

[thebassist]

(08-26-2013 03:13 PM)luggage Wrote:  

Hey Fret

This may be a stupid question but can you go on a bulk while on intermittent fasting?

That's what Martin Berkhan advocates, I believe. 'Lean gains' refers to gaining muscle without having to gain unnecessary amounts of fat, and thereby eliminating the need for more conventional bulk and cut cycles.

I have heard some warnings for adrenal fatigue if you keep this up over the longer term, I don't remember the specifics but it's worth looking into. What I can say is that adrenal fatigue is a massive drag.

[FretDancer]

I have a friend who's been on Intermittent Fasting for over two years and he says he is 'bulking' right now. Personally I find all that bulking - cutting - repeat thing annoying and I try to avoid it.

My only goal is to gain as much lean muscle with the least fat gain as possible, like thebassist said. I have decided to try Intermittent Fasting and see the results after two months. If the results are very very positive, it is very likely that this is going to be part of my lifestyle in the future, just like eating 3 times a day is a normal thing for most people.

thebassist: Can you elaborate more on what you've heard about adrenal fatigue? I want to make sure I do things right from the start.

[Checkmat]

I got shredded doing this last summer. Shit works.

[thebassist]

(08-26-2013 06:39 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

I have a friend who's been on Intermittent Fasting for over two years and he says he is 'bulking' right now. Personally I find all that bulking - cutting - repeat thing annoying and I try to avoid it.

My only goal is to gain as much lean muscle with the least fat gain as possible, like thebassist said. I have decided to try Intermittent Fasting and see the results after two months. If the results are very very positive, it is very likely that this is going to be part of my lifestyle in the future, just like eating 3 times a day is a normal thing for most people.

thebassist: Can you elaborate more on what you've heard about adrenal fatigue? I want to make sure I do things right from the start.

Just spent the last 40 minutes doing some google searches and checking it out in a bit more detail. My impression is that as long as you're leading a decent lifestyle (sleeping well every night, good diet- not too large of a calorie deficit, multivitamin supplementation, minimizing stress), then adrenal fatigue shouldn't be an issue. The primary cause of adrenal fatigue is long-term elevated cortisol levels, cortisol being released during periods of stress.

I wasn't able to find a conclusive answer whether IF can be a direct cause of adrenal fatigue, but I'd recommend that you cover all your bases, especially if you consider doing it longer term.

If I remember correctly, Hades here on RooshV may have burned out on adrenal fatigue doing intermittent fasting, you should shoot him a pm and get his take on this.

Here are some of the links that I based my opinion on:

1
2
3 Check out number 8 on the list.
4

[RussianSoul]

Imo, IF makes sense for cutting but not for bulking. Eating enough food is a big enough problem for many guys. Why make it hard with an 8 hour feeding window? Furthermore, there's nothing magical about the fast. You still have to watch your calories and macros. The only advantage is you get to eat big meals even when your cutting....

[Kickb]

I tried intermentent fasting last year and dropped from 195 to 180 within about a week in a half. Didn't like it. Maybe I didn't do it correctly though? I'm pretty sure I ate a lot and took my protein. But anyways, it seems great for cutting weight rather than putting on muscle.

If you're already on the light side then I would eat like a mad man and cut fat once I reached my desired size.

[Cr33pin]

Not to hijack your thread but how import do you think the BCAAs you are taking before your workout are? An if you were eating a normal diet would the BCAAs before a workout still be worth while?

[FretDancer]

(08-27-2013 08:24 AM)RussianSoul Wrote:  

Imo, IF makes sense for cutting but not for bulking. Eating enough food is a big enough problem for many guys. Why make it hard with an 8 hour feeding window? Furthermore, there's nothing magical about the fast. You still have to watch your calories and macros. The only advantage is you get to eat big meals even when your cutting....

True. But the amount of food you can eat on that 8 hour window is alot, in my recent experience. In my first week I have eaten alot and its hard for me to get that full-stomach sensation when you eat a huge meal without fasting, its like you never get full. Mentally you are satisfied, but your stomach doesn't feel like it, maybe that is a good thing because it also allows me to eat more on the next meals.

(08-27-2013 08:59 AM)kickboxer Wrote:  

I tried intermentent fasting last year and dropped from 195 to 180 within about a week in a half. Didn't like it. Maybe I didn't do it correctly though? I'm pretty sure I ate a lot and took my protein. But anyways, it seems great for cutting weight rather than putting on muscle.

If you're already on the light side then I would eat like a mad man and cut fat once I reached my desired size.

Thats 15 pounds in a week and a half, sounds pretty crazy to me. How long were you fasting, how much where you eating? (Amount of calories). I've been on a little more than a week and I haven't lost a single pound, I've even gained ~2lbs.

Another important note is that, if you consume your necessary protein intake, there shouldn't be a reason for you to lose your muscle, if you train hard and eat well you should start building muscle mass. The only weight you should be losing is Body fat weight, which for me is not that high but still not low enough for abs to be clearly visible. This is why I am not concerned about weight loss. It's like, how much more weight can I lose?

(08-27-2013 12:09 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

Not to hijack your thread but how import do you think the BCAAs you are taking before your workout are? An if you were eating a normal diet would the BCAAs before a workout still be worth while?

Good question but I've never worked out fasting without the BCAA so I can't answer that question completely. I must say though that when I work out I feel very energetic, I am not tired and I don't feel hungry. If BCAA is the reason for this, then its clearly very important, but I can't confirm this.

My friend says he stopped taking the BCAA and noticed no difference. I still have alot of BCAA left so I am not willing to try that for now haha.

[La Familia]

I experimented with IF the entire summer, going for min of 16 hours fasting to upwards of 24 hours on some days. I've lost 20 lbs since Memorial Day weekend, and there's been a complete change in body composition. I was also taking an ephedrine-caffeine-yohimbine (ECY) stack that hastened my weight loss on low cardio, high strength training days. I've made slight strength gains while on IF--I think an individual can make significant strides by balancing Lean Gains/IF with Jim Wendler's 5-3-1 program. I say try IF for 3 months. At the minimum, you will learn how to differentiate between being hungry vs eating out of boredom, which is usually the main reason people gain weight.

"Eat Stop Eat" is also a great resource to explore the benefits of fasting and how modern eating patterns have destabilized the body's natural "Fast and Fed" dynamic. Highly recommended.

[Kickb]

Idk I looked sick.

I stopped doing the diet because I couldn't get used to going so many hours between meals. I thought I was going to die one day. I had broken the fast by eating sushi with spicy mayo and my stomach was cramped up all afternoon.

I nearly had to bail on my drinking plans that night!

[FretDancer]

(08-27-2013 02:21 PM)La Familia Wrote:  

I experimented with IF the entire summer, going for min of 16 hours fasting to upwards of 24 hours on some days. I've lost 20 lbs since Memorial Day weekend, and there's been a complete change in body composition. I was also taking an ephedrine-caffeine-yohimbine (ECY) stack that hastened my weight loss on low cardio, high strength training days. I've made slight strength gains while on IF--I think an individual can make significant strides by balancing Lean Gains/IF with Jim Wendler's 5-3-1 program. I say try IF for 3 months. At the minimum, you will learn how to differentiate between being hungry vs eating out of boredom, which is usually the main reason people gain weight.

"Eat Stop Eat" is also a great resource to explore the benefits of fasting and how modern eating patterns have destabilized the body's natural "Fast and Fed" dynamic. Highly recommended.

Good post. 2-3 months seems like a good time frame to check the results and decide if you want to keep doing it or not.

(08-27-2013 04:36 PM)kickboxer Wrote:  

Idk I looked sick.

I stopped doing the diet because I couldn't get used to going so many hours between meals. I thought I was going to die one day. I had broken the fast by eating sushi with spicy mayo and my stomach was cramped up all afternoon.

I nearly had to bail on my drinking plans that night!

Like many have said, including Martin, Intermittent Fasting is not for everyone. If you tried it and did not work, didn't get results, or couldn't keep up with it then thats alright, the important thing is that you tried.




On another note, here is an interesting article regarding the BCAA question, it was posted by Martin on his Twitter account. The article is not written by Martin however.

http://anymanfitness.com/2013/08/27/to-b...t-to-bcaa/

[tiggaling]

If you really want to lose weight, try juice fasting for 10-14 days. Intermittent fasting is a slow way to do it in comparison.

[Cruisen_Chubby]

(08-27-2013 08:24 AM)RussianSoul Wrote:  

Imo, IF makes sense for cutting but not for bulking. Eating enough food is a big enough problem for many guys. Why make it hard with an 8 hour feeding window? Furthermore, there's nothing magical about the fast. You still have to watch your calories and macros. The only advantage is you get to eat big meals even when your cutting....

IF is great for both cutting and bulking- if dedicated to a certain aspect. Moreover, you can reap the benefits of simultaneously doing both; what we call: Body Recomposition (Losing fat, gaining muscle). If anyone says this can't be done, they are a lazy moron.

Nothing magical about the fast? There may not be anything Disney-eque about the fast but what would you consider uninterrupted baseline insulin levels? How about glucose depletion? Stabilized blood sugar? Appetite control?

Go have a banana before cardio and tell me how many calories (from your stored fat) that you actually burned.

Watching calories and macros? Yes and no. You need to be cognizant of the calories you take in but you have insulin sensitivity/responsiveness working to your advantage while breaking the fast. This will also lead to better nutrient partitioning as well.

Macros? Just make sure to get enough protein (protein shake PWO and some meats thrown in there) and you will be good enough. You would have to blatantly/intentionally eat like shit for this to be an issue.

Only advantage is that you actually get to eat a man sized portion while cutting weight? I have an idea...Go back to eating 8x a day like a girl scout and tell us that eating large meals on a calorie deficient diet is only a small benefit. It's one of the major things that help people actually stick to this type of dieting.

(08-27-2013 12:09 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

Not to hijack your thread but how import do you think the BCAAs you are taking before your workout are? An if you were eating a normal diet would the BCAAs before a workout still be worth while?

They are worth it while both cutting/bulking. While cutting on a calorie deficit, the BCAA's act as a protective shield against muscle deterioration (your body will use the BCAA's as energy instead of trying to grab proteins from your muscle stores). While bulking, the BCAA's, namely Leucine, will change your body over from a catabolic (fat-burning) to an anabolic (muscle gaining) state. This is what we in the community call a toggle.

You see, in periods of prolonged fasting, your body begins to feed off of stored fat (which is good). For most people, their bodies will go between burning stored fat and ingested calories for energy. Every time you eat, your body begins to utilize those nutrients as energy; therefore, fat-loss is shut off. Once those calories have been used, fat-loss will engage once again.

Significantly prolonged periods of fasting will put the human body in an extremely catabolic state. Because of this, your body feels the need to ingest more calories (it has a false sense of pending starvation). Once resistance training and calories are consumed (Leucine here being the biggy)- the pendulum will swing that much harder back to an anabolic state allowing said human to put on muscle (increase protein synthesis) at a faster rate that would be allowed without fasting. This is what we call...toggling.

[WanderingSoul]

(08-27-2013 10:02 PM)tiggaling Wrote:  

If you really want to lose weight, try juice fasting for 10-14 days. Intermittent fasting is a slow way to do it in comparison.

I don't think you understand the purpose of IF.

With a juice fast you are ingesting no protein, so you will lose a shit ton of muscle and strength a long with that fat.

With IF you lose fat slowly BUT you retain the majority of your muscle and strength. You can actually gain strength while cutting fat on IF.

If you just spent the last 3-6 months busting your ass in the gym to build some muscle and strength, you don't want to jump on a juice fast and lose it all.

[WanderingSoul]

(08-27-2013 08:59 AM)kickboxer Wrote:  

I tried intermentent fasting last year and dropped from 195 to 180 within about a week in a half. Didn't like it. Maybe I didn't do it correctly though? I'm pretty sure I ate a lot and took my protein. But anyways, it seems great for cutting weight rather than putting on muscle.

If you're already on the light side then I would eat like a mad man and cut fat once I reached my desired size.

You definitely didn't do it correctly.

How many calories were you eating each day? Or supposed to eat each day? If you don't know, then you didn't do it correctly.

Most IF proponents seem to aim for 1lb of loss per week or so. Which means you should have dropped 1-2lbs, not 15lbs. That is why you looked sick, not because you did IF.

Pretty good 4 month transformation here. Guy even added 110lbs to his total while doing it.
http://www.jcdfitness.com/2011/07/from-f...formation/

[Cr33pin]

(08-27-2013 06:25 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

On another note, here is an interesting article regarding the BCAA question, it was posted by Martin on his Twitter account. The article is not written by Martin however.
http://anymanfitness.com/2013/08/27/to-b...t-to-bcaa/

(09-02-2013 09:49 AM)Cruisen_Chubby Wrote:  

They are worth it while both cutting/bulking. While cutting on a calorie deficit, the BCAA's act as a protective shield against muscle deterioration (your body will use the BCAA's as energy instead of trying to grab proteins from your muscle stores). While bulking, the BCAA's, namely Leucine, will change your body over from a catabolic (fat-burning) to an anabolic (muscle gaining) state. This is what we in the community call a toggle.

You see, in periods of prolonged fasting, your body begins to feed off of stored fat (which is good). For most people, their bodies will go between burning stored fat and ingested calories for energy. Every time you eat, your body begins to utilize those nutrients as energy; therefore, fat-loss is shut off. Once those calories have been used, fat-loss will engage once again.

Significantly prolonged periods of fasting will put the human body in an extremely catabolic state. Because of this, your body feels the need to ingest more calories (it has a false sense of pending starvation). Once resistance training and calories are consumed (Leucine here being the biggy)- the pendulum will swing that much harder back to an anabolic state allowing said human to put on muscle (increase protein synthesis) at a faster rate that would be allowed without fasting. This is what we call...toggling.

Good info thanks for that! Im sold on BCAAs, gonna order some tomorrow or maybe get some from GNC

[Cr33pin]

(08-27-2013 06:25 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

On another note, here is an interesting article regarding the BCAA question, it was posted by Martin on his Twitter account. The article is not written by Martin however.
http://anymanfitness.com/2013/08/27/to-b...t-to-bcaa/

(09-02-2013 09:49 AM)Cruisen_Chubby Wrote:  

They are worth it while both cutting/bulking. While cutting on a calorie deficit, the BCAA's act as a protective shield against muscle deterioration (your body will use the BCAA's as energy instead of trying to grab proteins from your muscle stores). While bulking, the BCAA's, namely Leucine, will change your body over from a catabolic (fat-burning) to an anabolic (muscle gaining) state. This is what we in the community call a toggle.

You see, in periods of prolonged fasting, your body begins to feed off of stored fat (which is good). For most people, their bodies will go between burning stored fat and ingested calories for energy. Every time you eat, your body begins to utilize those nutrients as energy; therefore, fat-loss is shut off. Once those calories have been used, fat-loss will engage once again.

Significantly prolonged periods of fasting will put the human body in an extremely catabolic state. Because of this, your body feels the need to ingest more calories (it has a false sense of pending starvation). Once resistance training and calories are consumed (Leucine here being the biggy)- the pendulum will swing that much harder back to an anabolic state allowing said human to put on muscle (increase protein synthesis) at a faster rate that would be allowed without fasting. This is what we call...toggling.

Good info thanks for that! Im sold on BCAAs, gonna order some tomorrow or maybe get some from GNC

[kosko]

(08-27-2013 08:59 AM)kickboxer Wrote:  

I tried intermentent fasting last year and dropped from 195 to 180 within about a week in a half. Didn't like it. Maybe I didn't do it correctly though? I'm pretty sure I ate a lot and took my protein. But anyways, it seems great for cutting weight rather than putting on muscle.

If you're already on the light side then I would eat like a mad man and cut fat once I reached my desired size.

That was water weight you lost. IF drains your water weight quickly and you will notice the difference in your skin and face. This dies down and your body adjust after the 3rd/4th week and losses slow down to normal levels of about 1-2 pounds per week.

The first month is the hardest and most critical because your body needs to adjust how it sources it's energy. Hunger pains are always the worst the first few weeks then they pretty much stop all together. In my IF prime I simply wasn't hungry during my fasts, only after the gym did I crave meals.

[WanderingSoul]

Kosko, how were your energy levels throughout the day once you adjusted?

[kosko]

(09-02-2013 10:49 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Kosko, how were your energy levels throughout the day once you adjusted?

After the body adjustment I was fine. If anything I had more energy as your body is constant feuling itself of its fat. The first real month after the transition faze I was wired all the time and eveb had trouble sleeping some nights.

Energy was not an issue. The body is smart and it finds what it needs too keep you going. It was just important that I hit my calorie targets when I was eating just to make sure my body would be well nurioushed for the next day.

The energy rush is intense though. It's not like the fake caffine buzz. Your locked in, heart is pounding, eyes are focused, and you just want to keep moving doing something. It's a real primal feeling that's not as intense as adrenaline rushes but real close.

My theory is your body needs the activity to burn the fat and get more energy, but also that your body plays a trick that by doing your days activities it gets you closer to meal time.

[Cruisen_Chubby]

If you are experiencing hunger pains you should look at your food choices the day before. For example:

Lean chicken breast/tuna takes about 32 hours to be fully absorbed and digested in the human body, meaning, that for 32 hours the amino acids from the ingested proteins will be released for energy use.

If you eat garbage like Doritos or slop from McDonalds that will back your system up, you will be short changing yourself in the long haul.

A simple google search will show you which foods have the longest digestion periods...They are as you think: lean proteins, legumes, etc.

I would also suggest some Casein protein prior to going to sleep. This is the slow release protein for those who don't know.

If you don't want to buy a juicer, you can do a modified IF juice fast... It's great for staying lean and optimizing hormone levels. Example:

-16-20 hours fast
-BCAA's/Caffeine/Ephedrine Pre-workout
-Lift like a mother F'er
-Protein shake PWO
-Low sodium V8 hour later
-wait a couple more hours for uninterrupted digestion... Then eat whole meals that will benefit you in the post workout environment.
-Wait until hungry again...then eat meals that will benefit you the next day during the fast (see above).

[BoiBoi]

I just started something similar and had my first almost fasted workout today. No BCAAs, just a banana and some nuts before. I felt great and hit all of my lifts. Let's see if this shit works.

[AsiaBaller]

Why not eat zero calorie foods instead of fasting? Much easier and probably better for keeping you focused on work without being excessively hungry and also helps with digestion.

Broccoli and cauliflower for example are zero calorie to my knowledge, as well as Konjac noodles (commonly known as Shirataki noodles, which are available in some supermarkets and on the internet).