[germanico]

"Terrorist, terrorist, terrorist, terrorist terrorist terrorist. Terrorist terrorist.

Terrorist."

[TheRookie]

(08-29-2013 01:51 AM)LeBeau Wrote:  

(08-29-2013 12:43 AM)TheRookie Wrote:  

Surprisingly, Putin and Assad come across as rational and honorable statesmen in this conflict.

I understand the need for examining all different viewpoints, but lets not get carried away with the Western criticism to the point where we're calling guys like that "honorable".

The West has a lot of problems right now but there's nothing honorable about Assad in general, even if you were to disregard this current conflict and just look at how he ran Syria in the past.

Scorpion's post summed up a lot of my thinking, but at the same time, most of us posting here won a genetic lottery being able to be raised in countries where we at least had basic freedoms, even if some of them are currently eroding.

I read Zerohedge as well, but take their non-market commentary with a grain of salt, and keep in mind what kind of audience they're satisfying.

This is not a Zerohedge interview, it is a link to Syrian state media, which obviously should be taken with a grain of salt.

That said, Assad makes entirely reasonable points.

What we in the West have to understand is that Assad is trying to hold together a fractious group of people. Catholics, Christians, Alawites, Sunnis, Kurds and more. A small fraction of Wahhabi Sunnis have always hated Assad, and now they are being funded by the Saudis, Qatar, the US, and probably Israel, to try to bring down Assad with terrorist means.

Assad's efforts to try to protect his minority sect, the Alawites, as well as the Christians, Kurds, and moderate Sunnis from extermination strikes me as entirely reasonable and even honorable.

[TheRookie]

(08-31-2013 03:14 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Kosko Wrote:

As Scorpion has noted the USA has zero credibility. They are completely irrational and full of it.

Amen.

That said, I don't believe that this is being done for oil, or that even Libya or Iraq were. It's mostly about honest delusion, stupidity and the massive male hamster of the leaders of USA. I believe that Obama really believes in the ridiculous notion of having to intervene not because of lives lost but because of chemical weapons, or that oppression of women inspired more people to cheer war for Aghanistan than the removal of danger from terrorists did. If these people were motivated by anything concrete like oil, they would surely use more efficient means than attracting the hatred of the entire world to gain it. Instead, they're all behaving like Joker.

No, this is all about getting at Iran. Israel, the Saudis, and the U.S. military-industrial complex have marked Iran for destruction. Iran and Syria have a mutual defense pact. If the U.S. can provoke a response from Syria and Iran, they can use it as a pretext to bomb Iran into oblivion.

[TheRookie]

Suspicions of a false flag may be true. This is an early report and must be taken with a grain of salt. That said it rings true and makes more sense than Assad randomly gassing an outer suburb. This report basically states that the Saudis funneled sarin gas to rebels in the outskirts of Damascus. The rebels either mishandled the weapons and they blew up, or perhaps the Saudis planned to blow them up to create the false flag.

Here is the link. The reporters are an AP freelancer and a reporter on the ground in Syria. They interviewed Syrian rebels on the ground who were upset that the Saudis gave them weapons without telling them they were volatile and chemical in nature.

The report rings true but has not been independently verified.

[Quintus Curtius]

Syrian rebels in the Damascus suburb of Ghouta have admitted to Associated Press correspondent Dale Gavlak that they were responsible for last week’s chemical weapons incident which western powers have blamed on Bashar Al-Assad’s forces, revealing that the casualties were the result of an accident caused by rebels mishandling chemical weapons provided to them by Saudi Arabia.
Dale Gavlak’s credibility is very impressive. He has been a Middle East correspondent for the Associated Press for two decades and has also worked for National Public Radio (NPR) and written articles for BBC News.

So, this "incident" is the typical pretext used by the US and Israel to ensure its desired outcomes happen.
To really understand what has been going on in Syria for the past couple years, it's necessary to understand the motivations of the key players.

Syria before the revolution was a top-heavy, authoritarian system in desperate need of reform and modernization after decades of Soviet-style centralization. It had started to take steps (albeit small ones) in this direction, but the regional upheavals brought on by the US invasion of Iraq in 2003 and the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 2006 put reforms on the back burner. Certainly Asad shares some blame for the current rebellion. There was a serious drought in the country right before the rebellion and the average peasant received very little in help from the government. Corruption and incompetence from his government provided a fertile ground for resentments to take root.

And then on top of this are the usual sectarian undertones. Syria is a living museum of sects and ethnicities, and the rising wealth of the country left each group feeling as if the others were getting more than they.
Worthy of mention here is that Syria voluntarily took in hundreds of thousands of Iraqi refugees after 2003. This, with not one cent of help from the UN or the other great powers, or anyone else who professes to "love" the Syrian people so much.
Regardless of Asad's incompetence, once this armed rebellion started, key regional players finally saw their opportunity to get rid of Asad. Each key player has something to gain:

1. Israel. The usual manipulator here, would like nothing more to see its only real enemy on its border descend into chaos and destruction. If Syria implodes, Israel can break up the Hizbollah-Syria-Iran alliance and isolate each for the knock-out punch. In this it will manipulate and blackmail the US into doing its fighting for it, as it always happens. This is done with the usual psychological campaigns in the media, the control of the US Congress by Israeli lobbying groups, and other similar agents in the US government. This is a golden opportunity to turn Syria into another Somalia.

2. Saudia Arabia. Is terrified of Iran and Syria because of its own restive Shiite population, which it won't be able to intimidate forever. Also has big business contracts with Turkey and would like to see an oil/gas pipeline run from the Gulf to Turkey and then Europe. Asad wasn't keen on the idea, of course. Saudi Arabia is also fanatical about supporting Sunni fundamentalists, who make up the majority of the "rebels" in Syria. Qatar follows the Saudi line.

3. Turkey. Sheltering and promoting rebel groups on its border, and ensuring the rebels in Aleppo (their last holdout) remain viable. Erdogan sees himself as something of a latter-day Sultan, and aspires to leadership of the region. Irascible, delusional, and clumsy, he's not as smart as he appears. Turkey's foreign policy of "no problems" with its neighbors is in tatters. It has big commercial dealings with Saudi Arabia, so both have an interest in regime change in Damascus.

4. Jordan. Does whatever the US and Israel tell it to do.
The US has been supporting the rebels from the beginning. They've had the funding go through local puppets like Saudi Arabia and Qatar to maintain deniability. The reason for the intervention now is that Asad has been winning. From the US/Israel perspective, they can't allow him to win. They've invested too much, and they've gone too far.

The whole thing is just pure cynical power politics, played to the death. This is not going to end well. But the US/Israel are determined to destroy any country in region that presents an independent voice. Iran will be next. So get ready. They're going to saturate us with lies, lies, and more lies to justify attacking them too.

[Hencredible Casanova]

Looks like Russia to the rescue. They are sending a parliamentary delegation to the US to speak with the Congress.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-...z2dks0Aqah

[Quintus Curtius]

(09-02-2013 12:03 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Looks like Russia to the rescue. They are sending a parliamentary delegation to the US to speak with the Congress.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-...z2dks0Aqah

Hope they'll be able to run some interference, but I'm afraid that the pro-Israel lobbying groups have more power, together with the usual warmongering thinktanks, hawks, and profiteers in DC. The Saudis have also spread a lot of money around to try to buy off everyone, as they do at the Arab League. Whole thing is pathetic...
In so many ways I wish the old Soviet Union was back. Back in the day, the Kremlin could act as a real deterrent to US warmongering. They could tell the US (like they did in the 1973 war): hands off the Middle East, or we land paratroops in Damascus and it's all out war.
That's the only language these warmongers understand.

[Damedius]

(09-02-2013 01:06 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Hope they'll be able to run some interference, but I'm afraid that the pro-Israel lobbying groups have more power, together with the usual warmongering thinktanks, hawks, and profiteers in DC. The Saudis have also spread a lot of money around to try to buy off everyone, as they do at the Arab League. Whole thing is pathetic...
In so many ways I wish the old Soviet Union was back. Back in the day, the Kremlin could act as a real deterrent to US warmongering. They could tell the US (like they did in the 1973 war): hands off the Middle East, or we land paratroops in Damascus and it's all out war.
That's the only language these warmongers understand.

Did you this SNL skit? Supposedly the ADL when apeshit and it never aired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjB2Lr3Mrco

[Quintus Curtius]

(09-02-2013 01:44 PM)Damedius Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 01:06 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Hope they'll be able to run some interference, but I'm afraid that the pro-Israel lobbying groups have more power, together with the usual warmongering thinktanks, hawks, and profiteers in DC. The Saudis have also spread a lot of money around to try to buy off everyone, as they do at the Arab League. Whole thing is pathetic...
In so many ways I wish the old Soviet Union was back. Back in the day, the Kremlin could act as a real deterrent to US warmongering. They could tell the US (like they did in the 1973 war): hands off the Middle East, or we land paratroops in Damascus and it's all out war.
That's the only language these warmongers understand.

Did you this SNL skit? Supposedly the ADL when apeshit and it never aired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjB2Lr3Mrco

Thanks, Damedius, for sharing that. We all know who the real powers behind the scenes are. Of course, we're not allowed to criticize or question them in any way. Certain people are raised and conditioned to believe that they're victims, and that the world is out to get them. I've seen it in other countries as well.
They want to control the region completely. As Chomsky's writings have demonstrated, any power that even MIGHT be a threat (Iran, Syria, Lebanon) has to be destroyed. It's a very sick mentality, and they have nothing to offer the people of the area. They actually thrive on living in a climate of hatred. They have nothing to offer but a neurotic, paranoid vision of their own superiority. They don't respect their neighbors, and never have.
If there was any doubt about it, I think it's beyond question that deterrence works. The weak (e.g., Syria, Lebanon, Iran) get picked on and destroyed. If I was an Iranian leader, to me the lesson would be clear: we'd better get something so that these people don't mess with us.

[Damedius]

(09-02-2013 02:08 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 01:44 PM)Damedius Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 01:06 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Hope they'll be able to run some interference, but I'm afraid that the pro-Israel lobbying groups have more power, together with the usual warmongering thinktanks, hawks, and profiteers in DC. The Saudis have also spread a lot of money around to try to buy off everyone, as they do at the Arab League. Whole thing is pathetic...
In so many ways I wish the old Soviet Union was back. Back in the day, the Kremlin could act as a real deterrent to US warmongering. They could tell the US (like they did in the 1973 war): hands off the Middle East, or we land paratroops in Damascus and it's all out war.
That's the only language these warmongers understand.

Did you this SNL skit? Supposedly the ADL when apeshit and it never aired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjB2Lr3Mrco

Thanks, Damedius, for sharing that. We all know who the real powers behind the scenes are. Of course, we're not allowed to criticize or question them in any way. Certain people are raised and conditioned to believe that they're victims, and that the world is out to get them. I've seen it in other countries as well.
They want to control the region completely. As Chomsky's writings have demonstrated, any power that even MIGHT be a threat (Iran, Syria, Lebanon) has to be destroyed. It's a very sick mentality, and they have nothing to offer the people of the area. They actually thrive on living in a climate of hatred. They have nothing to offer but a neurotic, paranoid vision of their own superiority. They don't respect their neighbors, and never have.
If there was any doubt about it, I think it's beyond question that deterrence works. The weak (e.g., Syria, Lebanon, Iran) get picked on and destroyed. If I was an Iranian leader, to me the lesson would be clear: we'd better get something so that these people don't mess with us.

It's really bad in Canada. CBC is our national channel. They ran a story on their website about Rome Dallaire pulling out of a speaking engagement. The story had few details but alluded to anti-semtism. I made a comment about the Jewish lobby and it managed to get through but it got pulled about 5 minutes later.

Later the CBC did a story about a conference in Quebec and controversy involving one of the scheduled speakers.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/s...elled.html

The comments were pretty bad. Lots of bigotry. Which I found odd. I tried two posts.

"Come on Canada. Lets stay classy. You can express your opinions without sounding like a bunch of intolerant bigots."


"Your comments shame Canada and your fellow canadians. It is the equivalent of saying every Christian is a radical terrorist because 1 or 2 bombed an abortion clinic. There are many muslims in our country, your fellow canadians, who are intelligent, thoughtful and respectful. You do a disservice to our country and them, when you lump all 2.2 billion muslims together. Just like you would if you lumped all 2.18 christians together. There are radicals of every religion, nationality and race. We are more than the color of our skin, the god we worship or the country we are born in."

Neither of them got through. It seemed like the moderator was only letting through certain types of comments.

[Belize King]

I love this board. If the facts were presented (rebels mishandled chemical weapons which were given to them by Saudi) to CNN and Fox would they run the story?

[Quintus Curtius]

Yeah, I know. The key thing is that you can't allow yourself to be consumed by hatred. I've seen where that road leads and know what the end result is.
It's not about ethnicity or religion, at a fundamental level. It's about power and control. All empires pass away in time. What matters is human culture and values. If you can keep your culture, values, and cohesion, you can weather any storm.
The truth is, international politics is a blood sport. It's all about power, control, and who has the bigger stick. Always has been, since the days of the Assyrians and Egyptians, and before them it was someone else. So, we have to put it all in perspective. I guess the only difference is that in the days of the Caesars, there was less hypocrisy than now. In those days, they just went in and smashed people with no apologies or appeals to "legality".
But it is disturbing to see all this play out in front of your eyes. I'm glad I can read the foreign press in the area, and get the unvarnished story from the people in the region. But I'm taking a break from the news for a while.

[Hencredible Casanova]

[eradicator]

(09-01-2013 02:56 PM)TheRookie Wrote:  

Suspicions of a false flag may be true. This is an early report and must be taken with a grain of salt. That said it rings true and makes more sense than Assad randomly gassing an outer suburb. This report basically states that the Saudis funneled sarin gas to rebels in the outskirts of Damascus. The rebels either mishandled the weapons and they blew up, or perhaps the Saudis planned to blow them up to create the false flag.

Here is the link. The reporters are an AP freelancer and a reporter on the ground in Syria. They interviewed Syrian rebels on the ground who were upset that the Saudis gave them weapons without telling them they were volatile and chemical in nature.

The report rings true but has not been independently verified.

I read that as well. And of course Fox and msnbc will not report it. It would be just fucking typical if we invade Syria on the pretext of "they are gassing their own people, including the women and children!" when it was just an accidental chemical spill by the rebels that we are supposedly trying to save/help/avenge/whatever

[tylerdurden1993]

Im so relieved that here in the UK the house of commons (lower house of parliament) voted against military intervention in Syria, (even if it was only by 13 votes) there are forces involved in this conflict that no one understands and its scary considering normally huge wars usually start with a relatively small conflict that would not even be studied in history if it had been an isolated incident.

[tomtud]

They are only going to intervene because of its geopolitical situation. Countries like Rwanda and other smaller African countries nobody made a big fuss over. If Assad is toppled who s the predecessor? It might be another character like mursi from Egypt.

[Architekt]

My alarm goes off with enthusiasm, rousing me from my sleep

"Good morning, my child. It's 5 am on the 3rd of September, 2044. Time to get up and start your daily activities"

I take my daily dose of my iRise mix. Now I feel like I can really focus and get some work done, but first I need to get myself acquainted with the latest happenings of the United American Democracy. Life has been simply wonderful since all our sister countries finally merged with the USA. Now, we have formed a truly free world, without any of those horrible terrorists and rebels starting wars with our beloved country. According to the UAD news site, the only reliable source of news, China is finally making plans to become part of the great democracy! Ever since we thrust upon them the wonders of true democracy the Chinese lifestyle has been improving at an unprecedented rate. Before they were so horribly unhealthy and thin, with terrible skin - and so dumb too! How could anyone think of a way that's better than ours? At least now we have finally united every nation with a true vision of freedom!

After my allotted 13 minutes activity time for the day has elapsed, it's time for my remedial shower. It's a wonder these took so long to catch on and become mandatory, I feel so great after each shower! I accidentally spent an extra minute in the shower, so I'll have to stop and get takeaway McBucks instead of cooking it myself. Such a shame, I really do love the texture of adding a couple sticks of butter to the oil when I deep fry everything. McBucks should really do that, though, I mean, it's my privilege to receive whatever food I want whenever I want isn't it? Of course it is, I'm going to have to bring it up when I go there on my lunch break - there simply isn't time this morning.

I only grab a small breakfast as I have a 45th date this afternoon and we're eating together again. I think it's almost time to pop the question - I've dreamed of meeting my darling beautiful queen princess miskrilxluvrxxlolxx69x in person ever since I first laid eyes on her OKC profile. Her personality is just so.... strong! It really makes me feel like I'm a man when I talk to her! I do dread the actual meeting though - how do people normally interact in such a situation? Hopefully the UAD directory has some solid information on the subject.

As my soliPod on the train moves past the take-away printing station, it spits out my breakfast booster gas - ensuring I store as much of the breakfast energy as I can for when I really need it later on. 48 McNuggets and 4 McChicken globules with a large iced choc swirl caramelised créme coffee shake with choc chips, cream, caramel, added sugar, and choc sprinkles on top isn't going to get me through the day without a bit of help from the special gas. I am gracious for the care that the UAD takes of me and I am very glad to be one of its children. It must have been horrible being around before the UAD, never knowing what true freedom is like...

[eradicator]

(09-02-2013 01:44 PM)Damedius Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 01:06 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Hope they'll be able to run some interference, but I'm afraid that the pro-Israel lobbying groups have more power, together with the usual warmongering thinktanks, hawks, and profiteers in DC. The Saudis have also spread a lot of money around to try to buy off everyone, as they do at the Arab League. Whole thing is pathetic...
In so many ways I wish the old Soviet Union was back. Back in the day, the Kremlin could act as a real deterrent to US warmongering. They could tell the US (like they did in the 1973 war): hands off the Middle East, or we land paratroops in Damascus and it's all out war.
That's the only language these warmongers understand.

Did you this SNL skit? Supposedly the ADL when apeshit and it never aired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjB2Lr3Mrco

It looks like your link has been yanked

try this one

[Damedius]

(09-03-2013 08:51 AM)master_thespian Wrote:  

It looks like your link has been yanked

try this one

Sweet. I appreciate that.

[germanico]

(09-02-2013 04:13 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

[scorpion]

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-ballis...28639.html

Quote:

JERUSALEM/MOSCOW (Reuters) - Israel tested a U.S.-backed missile system in the Mediterranean on Tuesday but did not announce the launch in advance, prompting a disclosure by Russia that kept the world on edge as the United States weighed an attack on Syria.

The morning launch was first reported by Moscow media that quoted Russian defense officials as saying two ballistic "objects" had been fired eastward from the center of the sea - roughly in the direction of Syria.

They're really going out of their way at this point to make sure this thing blows up well beyond Syria. Pure insanity.

Also, it looks like the Republican Congressional leadership is supporting a Syrian attack. The spineless Democrats will go along with whatever Obama wants, so the only hope is that there are enough Tea Party style Republicans who will go against their leadership and vote no.

Of course, the administration has already said that the vote is "non-binding" and that Obama might strike anyway even if it doesn't pass. Incredible, right? This whole thing is a farce.

I ask: if they aren't intentionally trying to blow this thing up into a regional or even global war...then what the fuck are they doing? Is it really possible that they could be this reckless through sheer stupidity and ineptitude? I just don't see how. This is deliberate. There are some very powerful interests who for one reason or another want to destabilize the Middle East.

The strike on Syria will be throwing a burning match into a powder keg.

[Samseau]

Pelosi supports the war:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2...syria.html

[Quintus Curtius]

(09-03-2013 11:57 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-ballis...28639.html

Quote:

JERUSALEM/MOSCOW (Reuters) - Israel tested a U.S.-backed missile system in the Mediterranean on Tuesday but did not announce the launch in advance, prompting a disclosure by Russia that kept the world on edge as the United States weighed an attack on Syria.

The morning launch was first reported by Moscow media that quoted Russian defense officials as saying two ballistic "objects" had been fired eastward from the center of the sea - roughly in the direction of Syria.

They're really going out of their way at this point to make sure this thing blows up well beyond Syria. Pure insanity.

Also, it looks like the Republican Congressional leadership is supporting a Syrian attack. The spineless Democrats will go along with whatever Obama wants, so the only hope is that there are enough Tea Party style Republicans who will go against their leadership and vote no.

Of course, the administration has already said that the vote is "non-binding" and that Obama might strike anyway even if it doesn't pass. Incredible, right? This whole thing is a farce.

I ask: if they aren't intentionally trying to blow this thing up into a regional or even global war...then what the fuck are they doing? Is it really possible that they could be this reckless through sheer stupidity and ineptitude? I just don't see how. This is deliberate. There are some very powerful interests who for one reason or another want to destabilize the Middle East.

The strike on Syria will be throwing a burning match into a powder keg.

You're right on all counts, Scorp. To fully understand the apparent irrationality, it's necessary to remember that America doesn't really have an "independent" policy in the Middle East. It's been that way for decades. America's hands have been tied by numerous memoranda of understanding, special protocols, and informal treaties.
Essentially we do whatever Israel tells us to do. An entire phalanx of lobbying groups, media outlets, pundits, politicians, etc., are in place to make sure no one deviates from the script. Any president that tries to stand up to them is accused of the usual things.
As a secondary matter, we also prop up numerous reactionary, brutal, venal dictatorships like Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, as well as Egypt. The purpose is to keep the people of the region under control and to make sure that the resources of the region flow to America and Europe, and are not used to better the lives of the people there. It's been going on for decades.
And it's not going to change, because the electorate in the US is so ignorant, smug, and stupid that the cliques in power know they can get away with whatever they want.

QC

[renotime]

[The Beast1]

Obama as the commander in chief can direct the force of the military anywhere around the world at any time for up to i believe 90 days.

After that congress has to sign off on it. Either way he doesn't need to ask congress for permission he can strike at will.

Not that i'm defending Obama. It's a PR move and most in congress will sign off on it.

This is the time to hand write a letter to your congressmen. Don't email! Write!