[WanderingSoul]

(08-20-2013 08:03 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

I don't think it is necessarily the FSU, but moreso the city you are in?

Definitely could be, but right now after Odessa, I don't think I could continue in Kiev without an intermission.

Keep in mind you have a wingman. In Ukraine, rolling solo to clubs is death. In Poland, for example, I could roll solo without difficulty.

I do agree that going out knowing you definitely won't get a ONS makes you not want to go out at all. Odessa nightlife has been disappointing.

I've never been to the FSU, but for me personally, living anywhere without a couple of good friends sucks.

In general, I have way more fun going out to eat, going to the movies, or just fucking off in general with a good buddy or two than I do with some chick.

Having a good social circle is important if you want to stay somewhere long term.

Bullshitting with us retards on the internet and banging some random chicks isn't a replacement for having a solid group of friends. At least not for me.

[Northern]

(08-20-2013 10:42 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

^^^there is not much too do in Ukraine except girls lol. Seriously I remind my wife of this everytime she mentions a visit.
Bad food
Bad service
Bad English ability
Bad techno, all techno is bad IMHO
Bad prices
Think yOu see where this is gOing.

Swimming, hiking, diving, (wind)surfing, rafting, camping. But yes, you need to step outside your apartment

[paninaro]

As a friend and I used to say (we both lived in FSU), if you take out the hot girls from the country, there's not much left going for it.

There are plenty of things to find fault with in the US, but I'd say life in the US is just plain easier and less stressful compared to FSU. Both simple and complex everyday tasks are easier to accomplish, and that contributes to a higher quality of life.

When I lived in FSU, I always found a 1-2 week trip back to the US was a great recharge, and I did that 2-3x a year. I'm sure seeing family on that trip contributed a lot to the recharging, but also just being able to get things done easily, while knowing the other person probably isn't trying to pull a fast one in the process.

[Giovonny]

(08-20-2013 03:21 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Do you guys get fatigued from staying in the FSU for 3 or more continuous months? I was ready to stay in Ukraine for maybe 6 months, but as I approach my third month in Odessa, I feel tired, and I can't exactly explain why.

Is it the constant labor for getting laid? The lack of ONS freebies where a girl just decides she wants to bang for the night? Learning Russian? Speaking Russian? Limited shopping opinions? Stoic and tight attitudes of the local populace? Horrible restaurant service?

I wonder if that's telling me all I need to know about whether Ukraine is a place I can live in long-term. Even though Odessa is no Kharkov, I'm aching for somewhere more in Central Europe, of a more "normal" place. I wonder if you need a specific personality to actually live here. I may not have it.

I'd definitely come back to Ukraine, but I just can't see myself doing more than short stints.

Very interesting post. Refreshingly honest.

Seems obvious that you should get the fuck out of there asap..

Trust your instinct.

The world is your oyster.

(08-20-2013 06:44 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

The stoicism Roosh mentions is not bad in itself, but inevitably raises the question "There's some reason that they are stoic.-- what is it? "

What made them stoic, you ask?

(08-20-2013 06:44 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

Ukraine has been traumatized all the way through the 20th century. Traumatizing someone does not make them nice. It makes them suspicious bullies when they see a chance.

I think you answered it.

(08-20-2013 06:44 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I've been the first to bitch about the narcissism of Americans, but after seeing the FSU alternative, I see there's a positive side to the pride of Americans.

Nice to see that get acknowledged. Narcissism is not always a bad thing. Its just a word. Real life is more complex and paradoxical.

Fascinating post iknowexactly.

[slubu]

Just like people go on vacation to reset from their daily lives, I think you need to do the same. Find a place that is vastly different from where you are now, go for a few weeks or however long, and then you can decide when you want to come back to Ukraine.

You are right that since I have a wing it's different, though I'd say for another reason moreso than going out at night. It's that my life in the FSU is mitigated by the fact that I have someone here I speak English with everyday, talk about home issues, generally a reminder of home is constantly here. Plus it's fun to bitch about how bad American women are together

Nonetheless after three months myself here I'm looking forward to going back to LA even. Just to recharge. I need that break. But I'm planning on coming back as soon as I can.

Here's what I would do, either:

1. Go back to America for a month again, and realize what some of your alternatives are. I'd try one of the big American cities, LA or NYC. You would get 1) a break from FSU realities, 2) comforts of America, 3) get some nightlife in. Personally I'd choose NYC over LA, for more ONS, better nightlife and pretty much everything else.

2. Fly to a non-EE European city. The beauty of where you are is that there are a lot of cities that are a short flight away, maybe with a transfer in Kiev. For example, go to Vienna. Everyone speaks English there. The girls are retardedly slutty - even my brother who knows how to talk to girls but has no idea what to do in bars or clubs got a ONS. I left with a girl after 30 minutes. They also hate their own men and love American men. It's a nice clean city. Plus, they are not that feminine which yes it sucks, but it will give you the mental break from the FSU girls.

This is just one city of many as you know. I'm just throwing out a city I was recently in that was the biggest contrast to the rest of my trip. You can go to Ireland for example where girls just walk around blowing you at concerts apparently. But seriously, I think you just need a mental break from the FSU life, in whatever form that comes.

[Marco]

Roosh, 2 tips from me:

Have you tried Kherson or another smaller city near Odessa?
It has much higher foreigner value and people are nicer and you can find some small clubs active in midweek, enough to get some action.
2nd- love.mail.ru (same as mamba.ru), was the best chance to hook up and bang in Odessa. my friend got his flag which later turns to his girlfriend from the site and we both have some nice dates with 7-8 from there.

[iknowexactly]

It's been pointed out to me I have my religious history wrong. Protestants apparently are supposed to believe in salvation throught faith alone; and supposedly the Catholics, as they sit in a Vatican full of solid gold statues, claim to believe in works and faith.

There is an article about protestant work ethic, which is actually philosophically different I think, even though the word "work" is used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic

I'm an atheist and don't subscribe to either, I was trying to find some cultural explanation why the mood in FSU is kind of dour.

I guess a better explanation is that Enlightenment thinking that the social contract would be a source of greater happiness than dog-eat-dog or divine right of kings makes for a happier society then the win-lose jungle law of FSU. And the protestant work ethic of the USA has penetrated deeply to positive effects, and negative.

[Apocalyptica]

I still cannot understand why people want to sacrifice on general quality of life just for pussy.

[Akula]

(08-20-2013 03:21 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Do you guys get fatigued from staying in the FSU for 3 or more continuous months? I was ready to stay in Ukraine for maybe 6 months, but as I approach my third month in Odessa, I feel tired, and I can't exactly explain why.

Is it the constant labor for getting laid? The lack of ONS freebies where a girl just decides she wants to bang for the night? Learning Russian? Speaking Russian? Limited shopping opinions? Stoic and tight attitudes of the local populace? Horrible restaurant service?

I wonder if that's telling me all I need to know about whether Ukraine is a place I can live in long-term. Even though Odessa is no Kharkov, I'm aching for somewhere more in Central Europe, of a more "normal" place. I wonder if you need a specific personality to actually live here. I may not have it.

I'd definitely come back to Ukraine, but I just can't see myself doing more than short stints.

Believe me after 4+ years here in Moscow it's starting to get old, even with all the women. It's a combination of the day to day grind in sh*tty surroundings, the poor service, aggressive attitudes/drivers, expensive cost of living, pollution/dirtiness, and above all the tough winters with only 4-5 hours of daylight that sucks. I usually get sick for at least a month in the winter. And the women, while great, still take a lot of work and effort here which does get tiring. I am not so into SNLs so that's not the deal, it's just I do a good bit of work over and over and over and the results aren't what I want ideally.

Keep in mind I'm working a lot so I'm a bit of a different animal, but I assume that every guy goes through this to a certain extent. It's not really 'homesickness' just a need for some kind of change to put things in perspective.

But you know what? All it typically takes is a week or two back home over the holidays, or a business trip to London and I'm usually recharged, refocused and ready to come back.

I sort of dread ever coming back home to the US to work though. I know I'd be incredibly bored just after a few weeks, it's just not very exciting living in the US for me anymore, even if it were NYC or Cali. The convenience factor is great but being surrounded by fat women and entitled people gets on my nerves reallly quickly.

[Chaos]

I think living in FSU is alright if you mix it with monthly hellraising vacations to SEA.
I've been only about 4 months in Russia and so far it's great, but the lack of decent male company really irritates me.

Hanging out and spending time with girls is great but a no girl in the world can replace decent male company.

[JohnQPublic]

(08-20-2013 08:20 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

- Nightlife is dead until the weekend
- Arkadia has lots of people, but snob factor can be off the charts. Mostly tourists (from other parts of Ukraine).
- Center bars have friendlier locals, but more hipsters. Poorer quality, horrible ratios

The last two times I went to Odessa, I went because it was ideal for a semi-vacation where I could get a cheap apartment, work or go to the beach during the day and go out at night and see the hottest babes you can find anywhere. But I was never there so long, so I hear what you're saying about the short-term burnout. I've had that in a city before, but as soon as you get one English speaking friend to hangout with, compare notes, etc, that should disappear.

There are a lot of guys in Odessa doing what you are doing, I've met them on every trip, but it was places totally along the beaten path like Ibiza Club, Capt Morgan's, Irish Pub. Then you can meet up with them whenever you want and you've got a wing (maybe not as solid as you like, but a wing) and maybe a native English speaker. I know you have your doubts about Capt Morgan, but I met two Western guys, there living in Odessa every summer who go just about every night, as well as groups of Russian girls who are staying the whole summer.

It's also good to do some work type things to expand your network and feel less like you are just burning time. If you go to the tourist information center and tell them you are a travel writer, you'll get the royal treatment. You may also get some contacts out of this that will start your network growing. There're a few interesting tourist things to do in Odessa which you can do to recharge and get off the sleep, drink, game circuit, plus since it's Ukraine you can just tell the girl in the Tourist Info center (there's more than one, so you can do all of them) that you need a nightlife guide and you want a girl to show you around (girl wing). It's probably not a tourist info service, but this service is available to the wife hunters and everybody has a friend. I tried this and got a proposal for one, but didn't use it, since my schedule ended up pretty full.

A guy I met told me there are theme parties at Arkadia during the week, so if you know which club, you find the people.

Sunday: Western
Monday (or Tuesday?): Secret

These are ladies nights so it's free entrance for girls and they are pretty full. I went to the one at secret and there was definitely stuff to do.

In Western bar there's not really the snob factor, it's mostly students, Ukraine guys and a few tourist guys who dont want to work it in Ibiza. I had a good success rate in there. The problem is that those student girls coming from Crimea or Belarus are on a really tight budget, not living in Arkadia Beach or the Center and don't go out there so much. So unless you can get something going quick, it's hard to arrange a follow up. They're usually staying in some cheaper beach area (Fontane 75 or something?). I would also check out those cheaper beaches if you find Arkadia too snobby.

For guys who mentioned Crimea. There's a massive festival there called Kazantip, that just ended last week. But for future reference, I know some guys who went there and they said it was epic. The description is basically, big two week long Ibiza like party on the beach, girls are all naked and you can't buy food anywhere.

[inostranec]

(08-21-2013 05:07 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

I think living in FSU is alright if you mix it with monthly hellraising vacations to SEA.
I've been only about 4 months in Russia and so far it's great, but the lack of decent male company really irritates me.

Hanging out and spending time with girls is great but a no girl in the world can replace decent male company.

This is what I have been thinking for a long time. I got used to the lifestyle, I have no problem with the language, I love the food BUT the lack of a good company that I can hang out with....

[jimukr104]

^^^odessan natives should avoided. But that's my opinion . Unless you want to feel like you are talking to an entitlement feminist of the fsu.
They are fine when. Met in kiev though.

[jimukr104]

@northern. Any guy who goes in any water in Ukraine is tempting becoming a mutant. Most pOlluted lakes and rivers probably in the world.
The black sea is also polluted up there. But why does someone need to go to Ukraine to camp? The forests there are nothing compared to America or probably Europe. Sorry you didn't come up with any thing different than people can do back home.
For example sea , really is good diving and golf and martial arts and food. Not just girls.
Anyway out of curiosity you should try the northern clubs. It's a resort area like Arcadia but I pretty much guarantee no foreignness. The minibuses go there. It's at the north end of the city.

[Arado]

Have just moved back to the US after living in Russia for two years. Have been having more success. The awful people and culture cannot be covered up by pretty girls with no personalities.

[rishboy77]

(08-20-2013 10:42 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

^^^there is not much too do in Ukraine except girls lol. Seriously I remind my wife of this everytime she mentions a visit.
Bad food
Bad service
Bad English ability
Bad techno, all techno is bad IMHO
Bad prices
Think yOu see where this is gOing.

If it were not for the fact I got a solid wingman and I've got a few other foreigner contacts to meet up with on my up coming Kiev trip ... this trip probably would not have happen. There is sometimes to much down time between girls and sex and even when a girl speaks decent English there is only so much you can talk so much since the girls don't have the same Western mindset especially when it comes to humor.
As Roosh mentioned rolling solo to clubs is the kiss of death in UA. I don't even bother trying to score some weed there as they all seem so tight as it does not seem like it's worth the hassle.

[Aliblahba]

Roosh have you thought about Greece? Take a break from the front lines and enjoy the culture there. They're big on cafes I think, it might fit you. Find a spot where tourist girls are still coming through, but just enjoy the sites. Just a thought.

[Eddie Morra]

(08-20-2013 03:21 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Do you guys get fatigued from staying in the FSU for 3 or more continuous months? I was ready to stay in Ukraine for maybe 6 months, but as I approach my third month in Odessa, I feel tired, and I can't exactly explain why.

Is it the constant labor for getting laid? The lack of ONS freebies where a girl just decides she wants to bang for the night? Learning Russian? Speaking Russian? Limited shopping opinions? Stoic and tight attitudes of the local populace? Horrible restaurant service?

I wonder if that's telling me all I need to know about whether Ukraine is a place I can live in long-term. Even though Odessa is no Kharkov, I'm aching for somewhere more in Central Europe, of a more "normal" place. I wonder if you need a specific personality to actually live here. I may not have it.

I'd definitely come back to Ukraine, but I just can't see myself doing more than short stints.

Hey Roosh,
As someone who is going on his 15th year in the place, you've reached the same conclusion I have. Actually, I try to leave at least 3-4 times a year. It's almost become like a safety valve for me. It has kept me sane enough to stay long term. The only reason I stay here now (I'm in Kiev, though spent one year in Donetsk) is because of work and money. I'm saving my cash and trying to build up some kind of income through the internet, but its far from being there.

Personally, I don't see why you picked Odesa, I can't stand the place for many reasons. I think for long term living, Central Europe may be more ideal. This place (Ukraine) is only going to get worse before it gets better. In fact you had mentioned in one post a while back that Central Europe may be the best for ONS because women weren't rich enough to feel entitled yet not poor enough to use their sexuality as a way up or out of their current living standards/situation.

Anyway, just a few thoughts. Let me know if you have any questions and I'll try to address them.

Good luck!

[Hispanic_Reasoning]

(08-20-2013 03:21 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Do you guys get fatigued from staying in the FSU for 3 or more continuous months? I was ready to stay in Ukraine for maybe 6 months, but as I approach my third month in Odessa, I feel tired, and I can't exactly explain why.

Is it the constant labor for getting laid? The lack of ONS freebies where a girl just decides she wants to bang for the night? Learning Russian? Speaking Russian? Limited shopping opinions? Stoic and tight attitudes of the local populace? Horrible restaurant service?

I wonder if that's telling me all I need to know about whether Ukraine is a place I can live in long-term. Even though Odessa is no Kharkov, I'm aching for somewhere more in Central Europe, of a more "normal" place. I wonder if you need a specific personality to actually live here. I may not have it.

I'd definitely come back to Ukraine, but I just can't see myself doing more than short stints.

"going for the women alone is a recipe for disaster."

^that. you can look at winston wu from HA as an example of why not go to places just for the women.

[Sp5]

I recommend a quick trip to Germany and one of the small-city Oktoberfests over a long weekend. Quick, cheap and different.

http://www.veranstaltungen-in-deutschland.de/

[Roosh]

I don't understand why men on this forum continue to judge another man's choices. This seems quite prevalent in FSU and SEA threads.

IF I wanted to come to Ukraine only for pussy, why does it bother people? In fact, I came to study Russian and enjoy a summer resort environment. Women are definitely part of my trip, but do I spent all day chasing girls? No. Most of my time is spent working, but when I do pursue women, I want it to be enjoyable and moderately easy. My question is if the overall FSU setting is tiring for men over long periods, not whether the women are worth it or not.

[el mechanico]

Roosh, if you're not banging 1 girl in the 7 area per week pack it up go to Athens and get an apartment in Glyfada you won't get bored there. Delicious food at every corner and beaches all down the coast, a short bus or cab ride to the port for island hopping. Like I said before there's plenty of Russian girls there anyway..

edit. Didn't see your last post

[Aliblahba]

(08-21-2013 01:13 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I don't understand why men on this forum continue to judge another man's choices. This seems quite prevalent in FSU and SEA threads.

IF I wanted to come to Ukraine only for pussy, why does it bother people? In fact, I came to study Russian and enjoy a summer resort environment. Women are definitely part of my trip, but do I spent all day chasing girls? No. Most of my time is spent working, but when I do pursue women, I want it to be enjoyable and moderately easy. My question is if the overall FSU setting is tiring for men over long periods, not whether the women are worth it or not.

The month I spent in Estonia was enough to know it wasn't a long term place for me, no matter how hot the pussy was. There was nothing to do and the walls of old town closed in quick. It must be a leftover Soviet mentality the people have. I fit in better where people are more open and lively.

Are the people less "frigid" in Romania and Poland? Frigid for lack of a better adjective.

[el mechanico]

The reason you never get bored in Greece is because there's an endless supply of people who want to argue with you. If Roosh enlightens them to some more flaws about America they aren't aware of there's a possibility they may erect a statue in his honor near the seaport.

[Greek kamaki]

FSU is excellent because there is nothing better.Of course it fits the cowboy style guys who prefer the wild East and despise the infrastructure. In general the decadence view the debauchery etc.It is not for those who like comfort.