Quote: (08-20-2013 03:21 PM)Roosh Wrote:
Do you guys get fatigued from staying in the FSU for 3 or more continuous months? I was ready to stay in Ukraine for maybe 6 months, but as I approach my third month in Odessa, I feel tired, and I can't exactly explain why.
Besides being assaulted by my landlord's whole family in Lviv so they could force me to move out in favor of a higher-paying tenant, I suffered from the same thing. I think it's a combination of factors, which vary in importance.
Of course if your youngish, have game, you get way more model-type chicks there.
BUT:
There are subtle things that we are probably only aware of subliminally, such what I saw as the pervasive mistrust there.
I never really realized how much the economy of 1st world countries depends on a basic level of trust between strangers. Of course there are pockets in ghettos where there is high crime, but--
I am in a very good university town-- so was Lviv. It's totally different here. I don't even know who my landlord is. It's a faceless corporation, but the guys who come and fix stuff that goes wrong are totally polite. The office workers where I sign my lease are college grads and also friendly and polite.
Everyone I deal with living in the building and in management seems actually pretty aware to quite a high degree of making their interactions with you pleasant and are quite attuned to your mood and how you react to their communications.
In Lviv, I met an older man who was a neighbor, an older man seemingly ravaged by alcohol teetering around and I said "Hi" to him.
He just glanced at me and made no response.
Everyone is suspect.
Most Ukraine shopkeepers, etc, are fairly calm and try to be helpful, but the level of carefully veiled suspicion (behind a stone face) is much higher, and friendliness much lower.
The stoicism Roosh mentions is not bad in itself, but inevitably raises the question "
There's some reason that they are stoic.-- what is it? "
I've been the first to bitch about the narcissism of Americans, but after seeing the FSU alternative, I see there's a positive side to the pride of Americans.
The value system of the USA is basically a liberal ( in the good sense, meaning wanting people to be able to get along even though they're different) Protestantism. In Protestantism, you are
"saved" by
works, by what you do for others. This contrasts to older forms of Christianity where you are saved by grace. It is a more real-world oriented form of Christianity. This is best seen in the Midwest. When I worked with the poor there, the Lutherans there built a temporary residence house--tradesmen donating skilled labor-- for runaways there that was like a 500K middle class home in California. It was nicer than any place I ever lived.
So the narcissism of Americans includes doing a good job and part of that is keeping the customer happy. It means having the basic psychological sophistication to realize win-win is a far more efficient and
better long term general means of getting along than ( I win- you lose)as shown by my illegal eviction by my landlord. they made $100 extra that month!! It seems bizarre to me they risked violent retribution for this.
Ukraine has been traumatized all the way through the 20th century. Traumatizing someone does not make them nice. It makes them suspicious bullies when they see a chance.
Yes the women are deferential out of necessity, but there is a basic and superior understanding of the benefits of cooperation in the USA. It's why -- despite the howling that we're circling the drain-- I'm still here-- and so are the vast majority of the howlers.
Actions speak louder than words.
First World countries are smarter than most other people in the world.
That's why they're a lot richer. Invent vaccines, the internet, airplanes, telephones, the internal combustion engine, the light bulb, before you disagree. It has had negative sequelae-- obesity, bitchy girls-- but smart people understand:
You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
And I believe--
Against stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain. (Goethe)
The only way to deal with stupid is to get away from it. And it's what a large part of the best Ukrainians have been doing for decades.
And all this has a feedback effect, at both ends of the immigration-emigration pathway. The girl who was in my apartment when I was assaulted was from a fine family--everyone a college graduate-the kind of people that leave Ukraine. Her sister already has. My charming, long-legged 19 year old Ukrainian tutor left for Canada- and says she is never going back. After I caused a distraction allowing me to flee my assaulters, my cute young friend stayed there and argued with the monkey family about their brutality. I kept calling to her to leave as I was afraid they would assault her.
Later I saw her post on Facebook a meme they pass around there: "Will the last person to leave Ukraine please turn the lights off ?"
Often, the finest, brightest people get out. And come here, or somewhere like it.
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