[Tail Gunner]

(10-30-2013 12:53 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

I cut out milk products in my life because I did not like the taste of milk. I ate cheese and that never gave me problems.

When I realized that I wasn't eating enough food for lifting, I started doing the GOMAD (gallon of milk a day) challenge. Realistically it was a gallon of whole milk every 3 days.

First things I noticed, was acne. Yeah I got a little bit of acne, but it cleared up pretty quickly. I got a lot of $hits and bloating, but I solved this by supplementing a probiotic into my diet ( yoghurt and OTA pills). Eventually, the bloating stopped and I started to feel more grounded. My lifts started getting better as well. Soon after I ran out of probiotic pills and just stuck with yoghurt. All of the initial problems I had went away.

I still drink whole milk on the reg and use it as the base for all of my protein shakes. Whole milk is a staple of my diet and is so high in calories that I can hit my marks with it daily.

That will catch up with you one day. I did the same thing in high school: I drank half a gallon of milk a day while lifting. In my 30's, I eventually became lactose intolerant because ingesting refined dairy products eventually depleted my body of the enzymes necessary to digest them.

Normally, I would say that everyone is different and that might not happen to you. But your temporary side-effects are classic symptoms of lactose intolerance, which I did not develop until many years later. You are obviously sensitive to dairy. If I were in your position, I would try to switch to another form of protein or eat only raw dairy products. Eating natural yogurt with live cultures is the minimum that you should do. Good luck.

[Basil Ransom]

I'm like a broken record here, but if you make shakes with whole milk, give heavy whipping cream with water or almond milk, 2:1 proportion a try. Add a scoop of whey per half cup of cream. Plus foods for health and taste like berries, vanilla extract, cinnamon, cacao powder, raw honey. 2-4 oz full fat yogurt for taste, texture and health, optional. If you're already eating a high fat diet, this will be easier on you. Can even add freshly crushed garlic, ginger and cayenne, for their associated libido benefits.

[AntiTrace]

I never had long stints of clear skin. I also drank milk like a champ, 3 glasses per meal usually. I also had some gas issues and phlegm issues.

Cut milk out of my diet and everything cleared up within a week.

After three months I added milk to my diet. Within a few days I started to get a few small zits.

That proved it to me, so I cut milk out again.

[Basil Ransom]

AntiTrace, do you have any other dairy in your diet?

I got some acne the morning after eating a couple slices of pizza a couple weeks back. I blame the wheat - I eliminated all wheat and the acne has been receding since, despite me touching my skin frequently. Dairy habits didn't change - for me it's more of a digestive/ body composition symptom.

[MidniteSpecial]

(10-30-2013 07:19 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

I never had long stints of clear skin. I also drank milk like a champ, 3 glasses per meal usually. I also had some gas issues and phlegm issues.

Cut milk out of my diet and everything cleared up within a week.

After three months I added milk to my diet. Within a few days I started to get a few small zits.

That proved it to me, so I cut milk out again.

I guarantee if you drank raw goats milk you wouldn't have any of those symptoms.

[AntiTrace]

@basil - yeah I still have some dairy in my diet. Cheese, yogurt, and milk for coffee for example.

@midnite, the expense of raw goats milk just isn't worth it

[Christian McQueen]

Yes.

Vitamin D milk + cheese.

Milk is great for bulking and I feel stronger. Put on mass quicker, plus feel hornier for some reason (raises T levels?).

Cheese I eat almost every day. One of my usual lunch spots, a tiny Italian joint in Beverly Hills has this ridiculous Greek salad with goat cheese in it, as well as a plate of pasta with Parmesan sprinkled liberally on top.

Never get phlegm or acne and haven't noticed any side affects so probably fine.

[MidniteSpecial]

(10-31-2013 05:37 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

@basil - yeah I still have some dairy in my diet. Cheese, yogurt, and milk for coffee for example.

@midnite, the expense of raw goats milk just isn't worth it

You're right. Lady charges me $25 a gallon! I'm actually looking into buying a goat from her instead now. Building a relationship first and going to try to get it in the cheap.

It is expensive but to me it's well worth it. Within a few days of drinking 4-6 pints a day people tell me I'm getting bigger and ask what I'm taking.

You can also mix it with raw carrots milk for a potent elixir.

[The Beast1]

(10-30-2013 01:19 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(10-30-2013 12:53 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

I cut out milk products in my life because I did not like the taste of milk. I ate cheese and that never gave me problems.

When I realized that I wasn't eating enough food for lifting, I started doing the GOMAD (gallon of milk a day) challenge. Realistically it was a gallon of whole milk every 3 days.

First things I noticed, was acne. Yeah I got a little bit of acne, but it cleared up pretty quickly. I got a lot of $hits and bloating, but I solved this by supplementing a probiotic into my diet ( yoghurt and OTA pills). Eventually, the bloating stopped and I started to feel more grounded. My lifts started getting better as well. Soon after I ran out of probiotic pills and just stuck with yoghurt. All of the initial problems I had went away.

I still drink whole milk on the reg and use it as the base for all of my protein shakes. Whole milk is a staple of my diet and is so high in calories that I can hit my marks with it daily.

That will catch up with you one day. I did the same thing in high school: I drank half a gallon of milk a day while lifting. In my 30's, I eventually became lactose intolerant because ingesting refined dairy products eventually depleted my body of the enzymes necessary to digest them.

Normally, I would say that everyone is different and that might not happen to you. But your temporary side-effects are classic symptoms of lactose intolerance, which I did not develop until many years later. You are obviously sensitive to dairy. If I were in your position, I would try to switch to another form of protein or eat only raw dairy products. Eating natural yogurt with live cultures is the minimum that you should do. Good luck.

On my protein shakes, I realized that they've been adding the lactase enzyme to the mixture. Other protein shakes DESTROY my GI tract for a bit till I get used to it. This one has been nothing but a god send for me.

Looks like I should be getting some lactase supplements. I definitely do not want to cut out dairy from my diet.

Here is the protein shake I was referring to. Take a look under the nutritional info. "Digestive aids" http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/muscle...ombat.html

[JayJuanGee]

(10-29-2013 10:19 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

Manufacturing cream is garbage that's been spiked with stabilizers and thickeners. You want Heavy Whipping Cream, but goddamn you guys are going hardcore to be pounding that shit...I'll stick to whole milk.

I have been pondering over the idea in the above quote for weeks, and after pondering and further research I am really NOT sure whether there is a meaningful difference between manufacturing cream and heavy whipping cream in terms of the ingredients. Maybe it depends on the brand? The Alta Dena brand of Manufacturing Cream that I get in Smart and Final has the below ingredients – which seems nearly to be the same as various heavy whipping cream brands – except the heavy whipping cream brands seem to add skim milk to the list of the ingredients, presumably to lower the fat content.

CREAM (MILK), CARRAGEENAN, MONO- AND DIGLYCERIDES, POLYSORBATE 80

I then googled to figure out if I could see a difference between the definitions, and I came across the below website which shows the different fat levels that cause different definitions of which is which.
http://candy.about.com/od/candybasics/a/creamguide.htm

.

Quote:

• Half and half: half milk and half cream mixed together, with a fat content between 10-15%. It adds a richness milk does not, but is not thick enough to replace cream in recipes that call for cream. It will not whip like cream, either.
• Light cream: fat content between 18-30%, also known as coffee cream. Light cream will not whip.
• Whipping cream: made specifically for whipping, contains 30-36% milk fat. Often contains stabilizers and emulsifiers to ensure it keeps and holds its form when being whipped.
• Heavy cream: also called heavy whipping cream, has a fat content between 36-40%.
• Manufacturing cream: has a fat content over 40%, and is generally not available in retail stores. It is primarily used in professional food service.
• Aerosol cream: comes in aerosol cans and contains cream, emulsifiers, stabilizers, and nitrous oxide, the propellant used to squirt it out of the cans. Although it has its uses in dessert preparation, it is not used in

In sum, each of these products may have similar ingredients, but they differ in the basic sense, based on their fat content.

I think my earlier points in this thread was that I wanted to increase the fat content of any dairy product that I consume as much as I could, and even though I have a preference for raw and unprocessed, I am NOT willing to pay exorbitant prices for those products.

Also, I am willing to imbibe the higher fat content of processed dairy products because it is my sense (maybe partly bro-science and partly based on my other research into these kinds of matters) that probably the fat contained in the fuller fat products are good for us – better than low fat products in part because 1) the fat has nutritional value but also 2) because the fat content contained therein causes a lower glycemic impact when we consume those products.
Here’s where the bro-science comes in because I tend to believe that it may be o.k. to have a little bit of impurity in what we imbibe when we attempt to eat foods, as closely as possible in their whole form and original state – to the extent feasible. I want to get some nutritional value to make my body stronger to thereby be better able to fight off other impurities and toxicities in my environment NOT be scared away by some of the mainstream fat phobias that intertwine much mis-information that we are exposed to about various natural products.

Surely, I would rather that my dairy products only be raw or less processed – but I am very hesitant to pay exorbitant prices to achieve such state of perfection – given the misinformation campaign that is being spread by the dairy industry and being backed up by the FDA’s various laws against raw dairy products.
I was in nutritional store in Santa Monica last week (it was called Co-opportunity on Broadway), and there were a lot of vegetarian-looking products in there.. and a lot of the people in the store looked sickly and old… and I was kind of assuming a lot of them were vegetarians, but that may be an assumption .. because I did NOT do a survey about their diets and/or lifestyle or ask them if they are regulars to that store… Anyhow, the raw milk in that store was being sold mostly by the pint and quart, and the cheapest would add up to well over $30 a gallon (it was like $8 a quart). Seems like many of us are getting gouged and mislead in a lot of ways about our health and various products that are sold in these health stores, and part of my additional point, here, is that it seems that so many of the health conscious people are mixing in products into their diet in which they do NOT look very healthy from outside appearances but they are paying a lot of money.
In that regard, I continue to try to figure out a balance that works for me to eat/drink natural products in their whole state at a reasonable price, hopefully.

[Basil Ransom]

Since it's the holidays, Costco sells heavy whipping cream - from Swiss, $4 a quart. Very good price and good taste too, compared to Knudsen and Alta Dena. Still ultra pasteurized and not pastured though. The Alta Dena manufacturing cream just tastes funky.

I had some jersey milk from Costco that had chunks of cream in it, and the cream tasted extremely good, better than heavy whipping cream. If I could I'd get that. I tried raw pastured cream and it tastes good, but its wildly expensive.

Milk solids in cream/butter can still be problematic for those who can't digest dairy, but most dairy problems arise from milk sugars and proteins, not the fat.

Jay I agree, fuck these sickly vegetarians. I started eating lots of pastured liver from ruminants to get my vitamins, instead of eating bushels of plants. Much simpler.

Jay do you know of any good butcher shops around there? Someone who knows their meats and also sells quality pastured meat. Whole Foods does not have real butchers. He carnicerias might but they don't have grassfed meats in my experience.

[JayJuanGee]

Definitely agree with the substantive points of your post, and I may have to look again at Costco for some of the changing dairy line. Usually, I go to the one in W. LA on Washington Blvd. or the one in Montebello or the one in Alhambra. I have also gone to a few other locations, and it is a funny thing with some of these chains that they change their product line for the seasons, and also sometimes certain locations will carry a product and other locations do NOT - even though I have noticed that places like Costco has a lot of similar products in its various locations.

(11-17-2013 06:40 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Jay I agree, fuck these sickly vegetarians. I started eating lots of pastured liver from ruminants to get my vitamins, instead of eating bushels of plants. Much simpler.

In recent years, I have become more and more convinced that vegetarians are being sold a bill of goods, and many of them have real good intentions.. so in some sense it is really sad about these many health ailments that vegetarians get (and these ailments may NOT come in the first few years of vegetarianism, but later in life after depriving oneself of some important nutrients). Surely, I get a sense that some vegetarian guys on this forum may take offense to our line of thinking in these regards b/c frequently vegetarians can be very passionate about their "correct" decision, which personally, i believe is a ball of propaganda of sorts that is cloaked in various aspects of misleading truth.

EDIT: Vegetarians will frequently begin to accuse, and say what makes you right, and then ask me to show science to prove my points about why I am right rather than them and to say all these studies that support their position and then to say that you can find a study to support anything. I'm o.k. with that to a certain extent - though, ultimately, each of us needs to make a choice that he feels comfortable with, even though in the long run, there are going to be various health outcomes that may make a difference of living 10 - 20 years longer or shorter.

Additional EDIT: Oh yeah, and your point about organ meats, it appears that guys get way more bang for the buck with nutrients from organ meats than from plants - and I am kind of of the inclination (and this gets into bro science) that it is better to eat some bad cuts of meat from industrial animals than it would be to expect to get some of the food nutrients from various plants and grains.

(11-17-2013 06:40 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Jay do you know of any good butcher shops around there? Someone who knows their meats and also sells quality pastured meat. Whole Foods does not have real butchers. He carnicerias might but they don't have grassfed meats in my experience.

If I was staying in Los Angeles longer (I'm planning to engage in world traveling, starting in February, though likely I am going to frequently be coming back to Los Angeles in the next few years), I probably would look into some of these kinds of matters for better quality beef, and maybe even try to figure out a way to get a few guys together to buy a slaughtered cow (maybe that's called beef). Anyhow, it would be good to have a quarter or 1/8 in the freezer.

I have NOT really priced these things or asked around. Even when I saw a guy at the Grand View, West LA, farmer's market on a Sunday, who was selling grass fed beef, I was a little bit skeptical that he was charging premium prices for his grass fed beef. I may have seen a price list that was there, and he had a crowd of people around him while he was on some sales pitch. I did NOT participate or question him about his prices or specifics. He was going on about how grassfed is better (which I agree), but it sounded like a way to get premium dollars out of W. LA shoppers. Personally, once you get the source for your beef, which may be better to find a way to go directly to some farmers (or ranchers in this case) then probably you could contract with almost any butcher to cut your purchased meat up for you in the way that you want it.

[Basil Ransom]

I forgot, the MDR Costco does NOT have the heavy whipping cream. Hawthorne does. Not sure about the others. This is subject to change.

I always say the eat more vegetables thing is bullshit. Not that vegetables are bad - they're great. But if your diet is shit, eating some broccoli florets and kale salads isn't going to make up for all the Arby's and Coca Cola in your diet. And if I don't eat enough meat and healthy fat, a brussel sprout isn't going to do shit for me. Currently when it comes to produce I'm focusing my money on things that are high in calories like avocado and potatoes, or cheap like onion, garlic, and ginger. Or if they make a big difference in taste, like fresh herbs.

The best bang for your buck is getting FAT from the grassfed meats at the farmers market. It should cost $3-5 a pound and will have 3-4 times as many calories as muscle meat.

[InternationPlayboy]

There's no way I could live without cheese and I know milk has all sorts of fucked up stuff in it but I don't care, I love it. For the most part I try and eat healthy though, but there are certain things I won't sacrifice.

[Basil Ransom]

Playboy, you can try going without milk for a couple weeks and then resume. You might have an immediate adverse reaction. And when you do, you'll find it very easy to walk away from it.

It's sort of like a chick tolerating her man cheating when she suspects it - but once confronted with the hard evidence of his infidelity she dumps him.

[JayJuanGee]

(11-17-2013 08:53 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

I always say the eat more vegetables thing is bullshit. Not that vegetables are bad - they're great. But if your diet is shit, eating some broccoli florets and kale salads isn't going to make up for all the Arby's and Coca Cola in your diet.

BR: More or less I agree with you, even though you are expressing this concept in a way that is a little different from my thinking. I would say that the idea of eating more vegetables is bullshit as well, whether or NOT a guy is eating the other shitty foods of arbys and colas that you mentioned. Yes, the concept of eat more vegetables is a form of propaganda to suggest that as long as we add some vegetables to our diets, then we can eat some of those other shitty foods to make up for (or to balance) the empty calories of those other foods. Actually they may somewhat concede on the empty calories concept, and sometimes even concede that there are some outright harmful aspects of these imitation foods, yet the message remains mixed and confusing because no one wants to go directly against coca cola or against arbys or whatever other big profit center food item.

Actually, whether or NOT we eat the shitty foods, I question the nutritional value of vegetables – and that would include potatos in that questioning – surely, there may be some good micronutrients contained in some of the vegetables and the nightshades or whatever potatos are called, but us guys are NOT herbavores, and BR as you have been suggesting in various ways in your various posts, it seems likely that we would get much more bang for the buck by increasing our consumption of various meats (or at least to make sure that the nutritious meats are part of our staple food) and especially good bang for the buck if the meats come from animals that eat in line with their normal diets eg grass fed – or whatever is particular to that animal – for example, pigs are more omnivorish than cows, that’s for sure, and likely there are ways to get good nutrition out of pigs, too by feeding pigs greater variety than you would feed to a cow).

Anyhow regarding the vegetables and or non-meat foods, such as potatoes. Probably we can tolerate a certain level of those carbohydrate foods – and some people can tolerate more than others, and we may NOT be harmed by those natural forms of vegetables and potatos, if we keep them to a certain moderation – or only endulge upon them once in a while, rather than daily. Nonetheless, I question how much our bodies or phsyhology of eating really need those various non meat foods in order to survive… Maybe we each chose the amount of non-meats.. but maybe in the range of 10 to 30% of our diets may be o.k. with those kinds of foods --- yet I remain ambivalent on a personal level whether they are necessary at all – even though recently, I tend to stay in about a 10 to 40% range with these kinds of foods in my diet… and I do so, NOT by measuring or being anal but instead just by trying to have certain foods around me that fit the fat and meat categories. And, if I go to restaurants, I may deviate.. but I try to still enjoy and to fit in without overly abusing my body during those deviations.

(11-17-2013 08:53 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

And if I don't eat enough meat and healthy fat, a brussel sprout isn't going to do shit for me.

I think we are thinking the same here regarding the need to make sure to get the meat and healthy fat as the staple of our diets…. Actually, a guy’s body will absorb nutrients from various kinds of other foods better if he has good fats in his diet. And, if you overeat the various carbohydrates, your bodies receptors will be LESS able to absorb nutrients in foods.

(11-17-2013 08:53 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Currently when it comes to produce I'm focusing my money on things that are high in calories like avocado and potatoes, or cheap like onion, garlic, and ginger. Or if they make a big difference in taste, like fresh herbs.

Sometimes you are using this concept of “calorie” in a way that you seem to be giving it too much emphasis and I think that the concept of calories is also a very misleading concept about the nutitional value of food. Gary Taubes rebutts this calorie theory pretty thoroughly in his his book, Good Calories, Bad Calories. He also discusses the law of thermodynamics underlying the calorie theory in his newer book – Why We Get Fat And What To Do About It.
Anyhow, maybe BR, when you use the calorie idea, you are merely communicating a concept of nutrition that we get from food, yet you seem to be giving too much credibility to this concept of calorie, as if it were important in considering nutrition – which can sometimes lead us astray into mainstream gobledey gook thinking (NOT that you have mainstream gobledey gook thinking.. hehehehe…) but those two books by Gary Taubes are pretty decent reads, including talking about calories. The two books may tell you quite a few things that you already know; however, they will get a guy thinking about all the ways in which we are being mislead by mainstream science which will cause a guy to question nearly anything that mainstream is pushing regarding nutrition.. in the sense that if we see that they lied to us about X and to what lengths they went to lie, why is it that they are NOT also lying to us about Y.

(11-17-2013 08:53 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

The best bang for your buck is getting FAT from the grassfed meats at the farmers market. It should cost $3-5 a pound and will have 3-4 times as many calories as muscle meat.

I agree with your conclusion that grassfed is better than industrial meat; however, I believe that the nutrition of grassfed comes from the omega 3 in the grass and that the grass fed cows are NOT getting some of the other bad things that are in grains, including GMO aspect and some other negatives of their eating the kinds of foods that they would NOT eat in nature.
Ultimately, it may even be true that grassfed meat has fewere calories, is drier and less tasty than industrial meat because the grass fed meats tends to be less fatty than the grain fed meats… Nonetheless, what fat is there on the grass fed is better for a guy because the fat composition of grass fed has a better Omega 3 to omega 6 ratio and whatever benefitst that goes along with the fat that is produced from a more natural upbringing of the grass fed meat.
Actually, I think that some of the latest thinking about wild animals and naturally grazing animals is that paleo people may have focused on LARGELY eating the fatty portion (and of courst the organ meats) of those free range wild animals and then threw the rest of the animimal away or left the rest of the carcus for other animals to eat… because if paleo people were living on only meat then the portion of fat in a big animal would be incorrect (I mean, NOT fatty enough).

(11-17-2013 08:56 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

There's no way I could live without cheese and I know milk has all sorts of fucked up stuff in it but I don't care, I love it.

IP…
Yeah, maybe you are kind of bringing us back to the dairy topic. You can get away with eating all kinds of “fucked up” stuff when you are younger, but these fucked up things will likely catch up with you, and then it may be too late to reverse or even just difficult to reverse damage that you had caused. Surely, you may feel good and all that shit by doing what you want and giving into your cravings, but we should NOT be a slave to our tastes…. I love ice cream also, but in recent years, I have chosen to curb my consumption of ice cream, and accordingly, NOW, I crave ice cream much less than when I had been eating nearly a quart in a sitting… that’s just NOT good kinds of habits, even though I had liked it and even felt good, during and after eating such pales of ice cream….

I think that in this thread, we have already mentioned a variety of ways that guys can modify the fucked up aspects of dairy.. including maybe deciding to get the fuller versions rather than the skim.

(11-17-2013 08:56 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

For the most part I try and eat healthy though, but there are certain things I won't sacrifice.

Part of the point is that there are so many misleading ideas in mainstream regarding what is “healthy.”
A short time ago, I was in the hospital for some matter that was NOT directly related to my diet, and anyhow, my point is that the hospital serves various kinds of crap and unhealthy foods – unless you really insist.
I had to argue with several health care professionals before finally I got my way about what I was going to eat.. and at first they were saying things like they did NOT have what is was requesting..
I said bullshit, though I believe I said that in a fairly nice and acceptable way because I kept talking with various hospital staff. Actually, I had to get the main doctors to agree to deviate for me, which I also said was bullshit.. but I kept pushing until I got the nurse to call my doctor and to agree.
Mainly what I mean is that the “healthy” hospital menu was filled with sugar/carbohydrate products and low fat and not having butter and having low salt foods only. I said I did NOT want added sugars in my foods, and I wanted high fat products to be available, I want real butter and I wanted to have salt in my food or at least that I could add it to my liking.
Ultimately, the hospital caved in on all of my requested items, even though my choices were quasi “unhealthy” in some of their “standards of care” framing of what is healthy. My point is that even big business and “smart” hospitals are pressured into defining “healthy” in such a way that a large majority of regular people are mislead – even if subliminally.

[JayJuanGee]

(11-17-2013 03:02 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(10-29-2013 10:19 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

Manufacturing cream is garbage that's been spiked with stabilizers and thickeners. You want Heavy Whipping Cream, but goddamn you guys are going hardcore to be pounding that shit...I'll stick to whole milk.

I have been pondering over the idea in the above quote for weeks, and after pondering and further research I am really NOT sure whether there is a meaningful difference between manufacturing cream and heavy whipping cream in terms of the ingredients. Maybe it depends on the brand? The Alta Dena brand of Manufacturing Cream that I get in Smart and Final has the below ingredients – which seems nearly to be the same as various heavy whipping cream brands – except the heavy whipping cream brands seem to add skim milk to the list of the ingredients, presumably to lower the fat content.

CREAM (MILK), CARRAGEENAN, MONO- AND DIGLYCERIDES, POLYSORBATE 80

I then googled to figure out if I could see a difference between the definitions, and I came across the below website which shows the different fat levels that cause different definitions of which is which.
http://candy.about.com/od/candybasics/a/creamguide.htm

.

Quote:

• Half and half: half milk and half cream mixed together, with a fat content between 10-15%. It adds a richness milk does not, but is not thick enough to replace cream in recipes that call for cream. It will not whip like cream, either.
• Light cream: fat content between 18-30%, also known as coffee cream. Light cream will not whip.
• Whipping cream: made specifically for whipping, contains 30-36% milk fat. Often contains stabilizers and emulsifiers to ensure it keeps and holds its form when being whipped.
• Heavy cream: also called heavy whipping cream, has a fat content between 36-40%.
• Manufacturing cream: has a fat content over 40%, and is generally not available in retail stores. It is primarily used in professional food service.
• Aerosol cream: comes in aerosol cans and contains cream, emulsifiers, stabilizers, and nitrous oxide, the propellant used to squirt it out of the cans. Although it has its uses in dessert preparation, it is not used in

In sum, each of these products may have similar ingredients, but they differ in the basic sense, based on their fat content.

I think my earlier points in this thread was that I wanted to increase the fat content of any dairy product that I consume as much as I could, and even though I have a preference for raw and unprocessed, I am NOT willing to pay exorbitant prices for those products.

Also, I am willing to imbibe the higher fat content of processed dairy products because it is my sense (maybe partly bro-science and partly based on my other research into these kinds of matters) that probably the fat contained in the fuller fat products are good for us – better than low fat products in part because 1) the fat has nutritional value but also 2) because the fat content contained therein causes a lower glycemic impact when we consume those products.
Here’s where the bro-science comes in because I tend to believe that it may be o.k. to have a little bit of impurity in what we imbibe when we attempt to eat foods, as closely as possible in their whole form and original state – to the extent feasible. I want to get some nutritional value to make my body stronger to thereby be better able to fight off other impurities and toxicities in my environment NOT be scared away by some of the mainstream fat phobias that intertwine much mis-information that we are exposed to about various natural products.

Surely, I would rather that my dairy products only be raw or less processed – but I am very hesitant to pay exorbitant prices to achieve such state of perfection – given the misinformation campaign that is being spread by the dairy industry and being backed up by the FDA’s various laws against raw dairy products.
I was in nutritional store in Santa Monica last week (it was called Co-opportunity on Broadway), and there were a lot of vegetarian-looking products in there.. and a lot of the people in the store looked sickly and old… and I was kind of assuming a lot of them were vegetarians, but that may be an assumption .. because I did NOT do a survey about their diets and/or lifestyle or ask them if they are regulars to that store… Anyhow, the raw milk in that store was being sold mostly by the pint and quart, and the cheapest would add up to well over $30 a gallon (it was like $8 a quart). Seems like many of us are getting gouged and mislead in a lot of ways about our health and various products that are sold in these health stores, and part of my additional point, here, is that it seems that so many of the health conscious people are mixing in products into their diet in which they do NOT look very healthy from outside appearances but they are paying a lot of money.
In that regard, I continue to try to figure out a balance that works for me to eat/drink natural products in their whole state at a reasonable price, hopefully.

I read more about the Carrageenan, and YES, it seems that if we can find thick creamers whether whipping cream or manufacturer cream, without Carrogeenan, then that would be preferred.

I find chris kresser to be a good source for pointing out the various science - and he did a recent article on Carrogeenan.

http://chriskresser.com/harmful-or-harmless-carrageenan

He actually concluded with ambivalence and precautions against it, and he does provide some discussion of various important studies on the topic.

[K Galt]

Quote:

Anyhow regarding the vegetables and or non-meat foods, such as potatoes. Probably we can tolerate a certain level of those carbohydrate foods – and some people can tolerate more than others, and we may NOT be harmed by those natural forms of vegetables and potatos, if we keep them to a certain moderation – or only endulge upon them once in a while, rather than daily. Nonetheless, I question how much our bodies or phsyhology of eating really need those various non meat foods in order to survive…

Two things here: 1) vegetables are good for you, just not the be all, end all of a nutrient dense diet (of course). But I've come to the conclusion that the most important aspect of carbohydrate consumption, is the type of FATS you eat your carbohydrates with.

I.E. most common carbohydrates in the S.A.D. are made with industrially processed vegetable/grain oils (Soybean, Corn, Canola, etc.) that are imbalanced with way too much Omega 6 fatty acids and no Omega 3 fatty acids.

This promotes inflammation on a cellular level.

Of course, modern carbohydrate food sources contain the tri-fecta of poisonous feed products - most hamburger/hot dog buns, bread, tortilla shells, chips, crackers, cakes etc. are usually made with enriched wheat flour, soybean oil (both hydrogenated and regular) and usually contain crap like high fructose corn syrup. The ubiquitous amount of these three elements found in most carbohydrates in the Standard American Diet are what I believe combine to create the so-called obesity epidemic...not "carbohydrates" in and of themselves.

On the other hand, you CAN eat a carbohydrate heavy diet, as long as you eat them with a good fat content. In fact, starchy carbs sauteed/cooked in fats are a great way to up your intake of good fats.

I.e. eating a tablespoon of butter is gross. But melt it onto some steamed vegetables, rice etc., and it's positively delicious.

I eat a wide variety of vegetables and starchy carbs...but always with a high quality fat like coconut oil, virgin olive oil, butter, lard etc.

The other thing to remember is that many vitamins and minerals found in other plant foods are much more bio-available/soluble when consumed with fat...which is really the original impetus for condiments like salad dressing.

[JayJuanGee]

(11-20-2013 09:41 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

Quote:

Anyhow regarding the vegetables and or non-meat foods, such as potatoes. Probably we can tolerate a certain level of those carbohydrate foods – and some people can tolerate more than others, and we may NOT be harmed by those natural forms of vegetables and potatos, if we keep them to a certain moderation – or only endulge upon them once in a while, rather than daily. Nonetheless, I question how much our bodies or phsyhology of eating really need those various non meat foods in order to survive…

Two things here: 1) vegetables are good for you, just not the be all, end all of a nutrient dense diet (of course). But I've come to the conclusion that the most important aspect of carbohydrate consumption, is the type of FATS you eat your carbohydrates with.

I.E. most common carbohydrates in the S.A.D. are made with industrially processed vegetable/grain oils (Soybean, Corn, Canola, etc.) that are imbalanced with way too much Omega 6 fatty acids and no Omega 3 fatty acids.

This promotes inflammation on a cellular level.

Of course, modern carbohydrate food sources contain the tri-fecta of poisonous feed products - most hamburger/hot dog buns, bread, tortilla shells, chips, crackers, cakes etc. are usually made with enriched wheat flour, soybean oil (both hydrogenated and regular) and usually contain crap like high fructose corn syrup. The ubiquitous amount of these three elements found in most carbohydrates in the Standard American Diet are what I believe combine to create the so-called obesity epidemic...not "carbohydrates" in and of themselves.

On the other hand, you CAN eat a carbohydrate heavy diet, as long as you eat them with a good fat content. In fact, starchy carbs sauteed/cooked in fats are a great way to up your intake of good fats.

I.e. eating a tablespoon of butter is gross. But melt it onto some steamed vegetables, rice etc., and it's positively delicious.

I eat a wide variety of vegetables and starchy carbs...but always with a high quality fat like coconut oil, virgin olive oil, butter, lard etc.

The other thing to remember is that many vitamins and minerals found in other plant foods are much more bio-available/soluble when consumed with fat...which is really the original impetus for condiments like salad dressing.

KGalt,

I largely agree with what you say about the importance of eating quality fats, and also that quality fats make nutrients in food more bio-available; however, i question how much nutrient value there are in the ingestion of various carbs, including in some vegetables. The point that B_Ransom and I had been making were our differently stated opinions that vegetables are overrated by mainstream propaganda .. and maybe even in order to shirk blame off of other carbohydrates and also to move the general population off of the consumption of meats and products that may be more nutritious....

We all have a pretty good sense that there is a lot of propaganda about food that diverts many of us away from healthy living based on profits... and likely the solution that is proposed is for us to eat our veggies.. it seems like a kind of distraction... to the real problem of the many processed foods, including milk..

It does seem that we did kind of get off onto a tangent a bit b/c this thread was supposed to be about milk.. and we ended up talking about vegetables.. I guess that is the point that you are wanting to rebutt some points that B_Ransom and I had been making in which we were denigrating the value of veggies, yet it it is almost like this portion of the conversation should be in the paleo thread. hehe he..

Nonetheless, i recognize that it remains difficult to focus a talk on any narrow aspect of nutrition without touching upon a lot of aspects of diet, health and well being and even getting into the politics of it all - because many of these other topics are going to affect, even what we believe about the consumption of dairy and whether we practice it in our daily/weekly/monthly consumption. On the ACV thread, Nemencine said that the only way he can take ACV is to take it with milk.. he he he.


http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-7518-p...#pid558726

[K Galt]

Quote:

We all have a pretty good sense that there is a lot of propaganda about food that diverts many of us away from healthy living based on profits... and likely the solution that is proposed is for us to eat our veggies.. it seems like a kind of distraction... to the real problem of the many processed foods, including milk..

Absolutely. A few years ago, there was a huge mass media campaign to promote "A Plant Based Diet."

Quote:

It does seem that we did kind of get off onto a tangent a bit b/c this thread was supposed to be about milk.. and we ended up talking about vegetables.. I guess that is the point that you are wanting to rebutt some points that B_Ransom and I had been making in which we were denigrating the value of veggies, yet it it is almost like this portion of the conversation should be in the paleo thread. hehe he..

Nonetheless, i recognize that it remains difficult to focus a talk on any narrow aspect of nutrition without touching upon a lot of aspects of diet, health and well being and even getting into the politics of it all

Yeah, it's almost impossible.

Control the Food, you control the Sheeple.

[JayJuanGee]

(11-20-2013 11:38 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

Quote:

We all have a pretty good sense that there is a lot of propaganda about food that diverts many of us away from healthy living based on profits... and likely the solution that is proposed is for us to eat our veggies.. it seems like a kind of distraction... to the real problem of the many processed foods, including milk..

Absolutely. A few years ago, there was a huge mass media campaign to promote "A Plant Based Diet."

Quote:

It does seem that we did kind of get off onto a tangent a bit b/c this thread was supposed to be about milk.. and we ended up talking about vegetables.. I guess that is the point that you are wanting to rebutt some points that B_Ransom and I had been making in which we were denigrating the value of veggies, yet it it is almost like this portion of the conversation should be in the paleo thread. hehe he..

Nonetheless, i recognize that it remains difficult to focus a talk on any narrow aspect of nutrition without touching upon a lot of aspects of diet, health and well being and even getting into the politics of it all

Yeah, it's almost impossible.

Control the Food, you control the Sheeple.

Looks like you have a lot of material on that blog going back to 2007, and several articles that are very informative on a broad array of topics, including nutrition, politics, etc. Your nutrition threads and links look pretty solid...

I recall that we butted heads about politics a little while back, yet from glancing at your blog, it appears that it would take me years and years and thousands of hours to catch up to you in any kind of an attempt to pick holes in some of the ideas contained therein .. and that's if you took a break from posting he hehe. Well, in the end, maybe if i read all your articles, you would convince me to change my political thinking framework.. he he he?

[K Galt]

I recall that we butted heads about politics a little while back, yet from glancing at your blog, it appears that it would take me years and years and thousands of hours to catch up to you in any kind of an attempt to pick holes in some of the ideas contained therein...

Yeah, well I myself often wonder how I've stuck with the blogging thing for all these years now.

I'll give the TL;DR breakdown - read enough of my blog archives and you'll either find yourself agreeing with much of my world view or denouncing me as a whackjob conspiracy theorist.

I don't view politics as a means of effecting change in the world - i.e. it's not something you or I or anyone who involves themselves in "Participatory Democracy" has any control over whatsoever. Western politics is a charade that plays two sides against each other to divide and conquer the masses so that the 1% who rule can maintain and expand the scope of their power and control. That includes socially engineering attitudes and behaviors regarding diet, nutrition, finance, economics, and interpersonal relationships.

My idea of "taking the red pill" is seeing the big picture - not just one or two areas like feminism or game.

[Tail Gunner]

(11-21-2013 02:05 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

My idea of "taking the red pill" is seeing the big picture - not just one or two areas like feminism or game.

That is an excellent point. I see that problem so many times in this forum. So many men believe that they have "taken the red pill" simply because they know the truth about one aspect of their life (i.e., game and feminism). Yet they remain blissfully ignorant about most other aspects of their lives. As blue pill thinkers, too many forum members mindlessly attack the messenger rather than trying to engage in honest debate regarding a topic. It is really sad. Forum members should strive to improve themselves by questioning all preconceived notions.

That topic is probably worthy of a separate thread. I do not want to take this thread off topic.

[Maciano]

I eat quite a bit of dairy, but I'm lactose tolerant. Most people in Northern Europe are. If you're not you shouldn't take any.

Lactose tolerance is possible by a gene(-complex) that keeps functioning after baby-stage. That's the only difference between those who are and who aren't lactose tolerant. If you're getting older, say, late 40s/50s even lactose tolerant people probably should stop drinking milk -- yoghurt/cheese is fine -- because the enzyme making the tolerance possible starts working less effective. You could get some trouble with stomach aches and head aches.

Milk is also full of IgF. It's a great source for muscle growth, but the flipside of IgF is also higher risk of cancer proliferation.

[JayJuanGee]

(11-22-2013 06:10 AM)Maciano Wrote:  

I eat quite a bit of dairy, but I'm lactose tolerant. Most people in Northern Europe are. If you're not you shouldn't take any.

Lactose tolerance is possible by a gene(-complex) that keeps functioning after baby-stage. That's the only difference between those who are and who aren't lactose tolerant. If you're getting older, say, late 40s/50s even lactose tolerant people probably should stop drinking milk -- yoghurt/cheese is fine -- because the enzyme making the tolerance possible starts working less effective. You could get some trouble with stomach aches and head aches.

Milk is also full of IgF. It's a great source for muscle growth, but the flipside of IgF is also higher risk of cancer proliferation.

Maciano:

Overall, I agree with the content of your post, and accordingly, I presume that you are referring to processed dairy (homogenized and/or pasteurized).

So in that regard, does your comment take into account that if guys with dairy intolerance issues were to ingest raw dairy, it is likely that a large majority of those same guys would be able to tolerate such raw dairy. Also, how about the fat concentration in the dairy. My understanding is that the higher the fat content in the dairy, the better the tolerance.

Yes, i continue to ingest some dairy, yet my current reservations in consuming dairy remain both in the direction of "just saying no" to low fat, and i would prefer to drink raw dairy, if those kinds of products were NOT so outrageously priced (like $8 a quart or 30 per gallon, is just NOT worth it in my thinking of nutritional benefits).