[Kaizen]

he was 18.

thoughts?

[Kaizen]

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/0...oting.html

for more info...

[Basil Ransom]

No dog died. Odds of people caring --> small.

[Parlay44]

Canadians are getting trigger happy these days.
So much for sleeping with their doors unlocked.

[MrXY]

Can't see enough from the video to really make a judgment

Not sure what him being 18 has to do with anything though any more than Trayvon Martin being 17 mattered. A teenager can kill you, and many have killed. Who do you think commits a lot of the violent crime?

[NY Digital]

Aw come on. You can't even compare this to Trayvon Martin. This is a teenager who is surrounded by several police officers, all of whom have tasers and other weapons at their disposal.

NO comparison.

[Basil Ransom]

I was living in a house while one of the roommates went a little crazy and started wielding a knife at the other roommates. I was holed up in my room and asleep. The police came with a beanbag rifle to subdue him. (They actually raided a house full of girls next door first, after getting the address wrong).

Why did they not get a beanbag rifle? It doesn't look like the situation was escalating, and there was no shortage of cops around.

(07-28-2013 10:00 PM)NY Digital Wrote:  

Aw come on. You can't even compare this to Trayvon Martin. This is a teenager who is surrounded by several police officers, all of whom have tasers and other weapons at their disposal.

NO comparison.

Speaking of which, police routinely kill men on far shakier grounds than Zimmerman did Martin, especially considering that they are professionals and Zimmerman was not. The difference is that the media doesn't racialize police killings and fan them into Abominations Of Justice.

[Kabal]

Don't give up hope yet on a media-fueled brouhaha.

Quote:

The teen’s uncle, Mejad “Jim” Yatim, said his nephew had been adjusting to Canadian life after emigrating from Syria five years ago.

The kid was Syrian.

Now, if one or more of the police officers at the scene turns out to be white or "white hispanic," we could have a story here.

[Samseau]

Quote:

“Sammy seemed to be flourishing in Canada,” he wrote in an email to the Star. “I have to admit, he tried to fit in with his friends. He wore hoodies and wore his pants lower than his father would stomach.”

Yatim’s father has lived in Canada since 1968, but his wife and children lived in Syria until the parents divorced five years ago, according to the uncle. Sammy and his sister Sarah, now 16, moved to Toronto to live with their father.

From: http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/0...oting.html

It appears the facts of this case are the following.

- Divorced man gets his children from Syria due to escalating violence. For those who do not know, in Syria there is a raging war between Christians and Muslims.
- Sammy Yatim was a young Christian boy.
- Thus, Sammy was mostly raised by his mother. However, he did move in with his father at 16, so this should have helped.
- However, Sammy fell into favor with the wrong crowds (judging from the "he never pulled up his pants" comment) and got himself into a bad situation.
- For some reason the cops suspected him as part of a crime and blew him away.

I'd say this may have been a terrible police abuse. Looks like the cops got scared for some reason and destroyed him. The cops should be suspended and/or jailed for this.

[Last Parade]

I don't understand why they couldn't have just tased him? If they had line of sight to fire, they'd have line of sight to tase... I guess bullets are cheaper than taser cartridges...

Plus the streetcar's rear doors were wide open the entire time, and the kid's focus was clearly on all the cops pointing guns at him - nobody could've snuck up the back and gotten a clear, surprise, unobstructed taser shot? geez. I guess that's why I'm not part of the Toronto Police Service: I don't operate under a "path of least resistance" mentality.

SIU has no teeth so I don't expect anything to come from this, like always. Just seems so unnecessary and sad.

[babelfish669]

Quote:

When Yatim appears to move, officers fire three shots. After several seconds, officers fire six additional shots.

The teenager was rushed with a gunshot wound to St. Michael’s Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

Times Square NYPD execution from last year (knife). They clearly provoked a mentally deranged man in to attacking them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/20...uare-video

NYPD shooting with a bystander casualty rivaling mass shootings

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/nyregi...unded.html

Whoever is training the NYPD must be training the Toronto force as well. Stay away.

[germanico]

Notice how the canadians have managed not to turn a police shooting into a racial debate?

[Donnington93]

(07-29-2013 01:34 AM)germanico Wrote:  

Notice how the canadians have managed not to turn a police shooting into a racial debate?

It's Toronto, there's a good chance the cops are of a non-white ethnic background as well (not being sarcastic, it's the truth).

[Samseau]

(07-29-2013 01:34 AM)germanico Wrote:  

Notice how the canadians have managed not to turn a police shooting into a racial debate?

That's because the guy who got shot wasn't black.

[Don]

This makes me sick..as does all other million stories of police abuse. They're nothing more than bullies with weapons. They got each-others backs and seems like no one can touch them. They can smash an 87 year olds face in the ground, arrest bystanders that dare recording them, kill a teen with a knife in cold blood, and MAYBE get "suspended", or some shmuck will come on TV and say that they're doing an 'internal investigation'. What the fuck..if i would take a revolver and shoot in cold blood 9 times someone in the middle of the fucking street what would happen to me..would i get suspended from work? Have to eat mcdonalds and watch TV for a week then 'back to work, gotta pretend to do my job and abuse some defenseless people'.
This is what happens when you take a bunch of uneducated psychopaths, give them a badge and gun, and what seems to be immunity from the most basic laws. I dare you to watch this video and tell me it doesn't make you feel angry and sick to your stomach.

[Beyond Borders]

(07-28-2013 09:44 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

No dog died. Odds of people caring --> small.

Hmmm......pessimistic, are we?

I think a lot of people care about this, actually.

[NY Digital]

If only stuff like this could happen more.

Except, in the US they'd probably just shoot you before you had the chance. Can't shoot everyone though.

[Suits]

An enhanced (close up, improved audio) video is available on this page, for anyone who is interested.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/0...oting.html

I'm usually pro-cop in these situations, but the killing seems less than necessary in this case. The guy didn't rush them.

Weren't there any less-than lethal weapons they could have tried first?

[Zak]

I've only been to the US once and thankfully I didn't have any run ins with their Police -I was we'll aware of their reputation in advance. I did notice however, the tendency of security officials and Police at airports etc. on occasion to low level, harangue and harass people that they had authority over. Their drill sergeant style pissed me off; but I knew how it would end up if I complained (on the floor in handcuffs no doubt).

There definitely seems to be a problem with the readiness of some members of the police to escalate and to use disproportionate violence. And it is nonsense to try and deny the racial issues at work here as well.

Ultimately, it is up to US citizens to stand up to abuse of power by the Police. They have to decide whether they want to live in a society where the Police continue to serve the state and the financial interests of the ruling elite (and acting like gangsters and thugs on occasion); as opposed to the Police genuinely serving the people and having real accountability for their actions.

[Samseau]

(07-29-2013 08:25 AM)Suits Wrote:  

An enhanced (close up, improved audio) video is available on this page, for anyone who is interested.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/0...oting.html

I'm usually pro-cop in these situations, but the killing seems less than necessary in this case. The guy didn't rush them.

Weren't there any less-than lethal weapons they could have tried first?

Watching the video shows the cops weren't entirely in the wrong. They ordered him to drop the knife and he did not.

What the fuck was that kid thinking? Did he not understand English? Always do what the cops say or you're a dead man.

Regardless I agree with those who say they could have used some kind of non-lethal weapon first, such as a taser, bean bag gun, etc.

But all in all the cops weren't not 100% in the wrong, more like just 70%. I'd say whatever the cops policy regarding knife situations are should probably be updated a little.

[DLZ]

I'm sure many Canadians remember this:

tl;dr: Polish immigrant doesn't speak English, RCMP tases him to death with no provocation or escalation on his part.

[Kaizen]

^ yeah that was particularly pathetic on the part of the RCMP...encountering an individual within the security area of an international airport and tasing him to death

the RCMP clowns then travelled to poland looking for evidence that he had a drinking problem, even though it had f all to do with his death.

amazingly one of the clown cops in this death was involved a short time later driving drunk and killed a man:

ttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/court-hears-claim-rcmp-officer-drank-vodka-to-beat-drunk-driving-charge/article535569/

beyond pathetic.

[A War You Cannot Win]

I wasn't there so I'm not going to comment on whether or not the shooting was justified. However I think you have to take into consideration of the '21 foot' rule when it comes to a suspect equipped with a knife:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill

In short, a reasonably athletic male can close a distance of up to 21 feet in 1.5 seconds. This WILL be a lot quicker than the time required for an officer to assess the situation, draw his weapon, control his breathing, and fire a well-aimed shot. Even if the suspect is shot while closing the distance between him and the officer, shooting people isn't like in the movies where they spectacularly fall down or get pushed back by the concussive force of small-arms fire. Depending on the individual and where the shots hit, he may not have suffered enough damage to be incapacitated, and thus will continue his attack.

When your life may be on the line it's better to use too much firepower, than not enough. This is just my opinion. Keep in mind I didn't too hot on my last military mental health evaluation. If I was there and I ordered the kid to drop the knife and he didn't comply with my lawful order I would definitely without a doubt construe that as an intent to harm myself or a fellow officer.

[samsamsam]

It was a knife. There were a bunch of cops. The odds of him being able to seriously hurt a cop would be slim since they have vests on and I imagine all are trained at disarming a knife wielding individual. If he was charging maybe I would give cops more of the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he was on drugs, a whole bunch of factors.

They could have all just backed off since he wasn't coming out of the bus (it seems). This would allow them more time to react if he charged but just putting distance between them. No one else was on the bus so no one was at risk.

9 shots? Must be budget cutbacks or something and the cops are not getting time at the gun range. It seemed pretty excessive.

But my opinion is based on a video on a computer monitor. I have no idea what really happened. But it does seem like it might have been a slow night and the cops were bored- a lot of cops there.

[A War You Cannot Win]

(07-29-2013 10:20 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

It was a knife. There were a bunch of cops. The odds of him being able to seriously hurt a cop would be slim since they have vests on and I imagine all are trained at disarming a knife wielding individual. If he was charging maybe I would give cops more of the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he was on drugs, a whole bunch of factors.

They could have all just backed off since he wasn't coming out of the bus (it seems). This would allow them more time to react if he charged but just putting distance between them. No one else was on the bus so no one was at risk.

9 shots? Must be budget cutbacks or something and the cops are not getting time at the gun range. It seemed pretty excessive.

But my opinion is based on a video on a computer monitor. I have no idea what really happened. But it does seem like it might have been a slow night and the cops were bored- a lot of cops there.

You wouldn't want to take a chance trying to 'disarm' a knife welding individual. It's a knife. Why would you want enter the distance where it's most deadly? That's maximizing the risk to yourself. I'm sure there they have been trained here and there, but I guarantee it hasn't been drilled into muscle memory and maximum proficiency. Cops dont have time for that kind of drill training. I wouldnt risk if it if i had a gun. You need to do something like that a 1,000+ times. 'I don't fear the man who has practiced a 1,000 kicks once, I fear the man who has practiced 1 kick a thousand times' -Bruce Lee

I'm assuming the cops had 9MMs. 9 shots may seem excessive, but I've seen Haijis high on Quat take God knows how many 5.56 rounds before bleeding out and collapsing. If none of those shots hit center mass, the pelvic region, or the 'T' box region of the head it's not so far fetched he could still be a threat before his body goes into shock from blood loss. Shooting people in specific areas designed to do the most tissue damage and induce shock when your adrenaline is hammering through your body, you're nervous, sweats getting into your eyes, your breathing is tense is a lot harder than Call of Duty makes it out to be.

It's like those people who say Zimmerman could've just wounded Trayvon by shooting him in the leg. Never been in a fire fight in their life. It's dark out, your adrenaline isn't doing you any favors, your head has been smashed against the ground how many times, and they expect some barely trained civilian to make that kind of shot in the dark with a handgun? Fuck no. No one's making that shot unless they're a fucking Delta Force operator or something. You're always trained to aim for center mass because its a big target and full of organs.