[Moma]

(05-20-2014 02:51 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

I'm NOT really that familiar with Aloe Vera, either, so I am really NOT very certain about how it helps in the diet. I thought that it was in sun burn protection.... Accordingly, I am NOT sure about how well it contributes to a well balanced diet - and certainly, I get the sense with Moma, that he (and probably a lot of others reading this thread) have a dietary fat phobia. I believe that a lot of you guys really believe in your subconscious that eating fat makes you fat, so your minds are NOT ready for the concept to increase some of your good fats in your diet will probably help you to loose belly fat in your bodies. That is my working theory... he he he about the dietary fat phobia of society, RVF members included...

I am not really scared of dietary fat but I've been tweaking diet for a while so I know what works etc. Certain fats also slow me down and take my edge of mentally.

When I do take fats, I might gulp a couple of tablespoons of flaxseed oil or combine it with coconut oil. At times I do eat almonds (no salt), brazil nuts, walnuts or cashews.

I may also rotate avocados into my diet. My energy levels can be optimal and my mind sharp but I think with age, the stomach has come to stay and will be very reluctant to bolt.

Maybe 6 years ago, nothing could budge my abs, I was in the 13 percent range and flat all day.

Now, I am active, sweating all day, on my bike, going for runs, watching the calories like a hawk and only in the morning do I see a slight glimmer of low body fat on the stomach.

One lizard last week stroked my stomach critically and mentioned that it was a hard semi pot. This means I can flex the abs underneath the belly etc.

Yesterday's meal was EXACTLY the same as the meal the day before.

In about six servings throughout the day, I ate:

- Brown rice
- Chicken stew (seasoned with sea salt, two sticks of thyme, a dash of paprika, curry powder, black pepper, pimento, half a chopped onion, a crushed garlic lobe.
- Hunts Tomato paste to give the stew some body.
- Apples

Around 4:30pm, I blended half an apple, with some cinnamon powder and a thimble of Manuka Honey and some water and sipped that for an hour.

My gateway vice:

I ran out of the Ways Regular chips so I munched a few handfuls of Bite size Tortilla Chips from between 4pm-6pm.

THIS MORNING

This morning, as my brown rice boils on the stove, I opened up the day with half an apple, cinnamon and water blended together in the bullet.

[Saweeep]

I haven't read the thread but I have grown and lost a belly a few times in my life

Frankly, the only reason that it is ever still there is too many calories; anything else is just bullshit.

If it stops shrinking during dieting, restrict calories further.

Simple.

[JayJuanGee]

(05-20-2014 07:10 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

I haven't read the thread but I have grown and lost a belly a few times in my life

Frankly, the only reason that it is ever still there is too many calories; anything else is just bullshit.

If it stops shrinking during dieting, restrict calories further.

Simple.

I would suggest reading the thread before you attempt to simplify matters too specifically or to suggest that ideas other than your own are "bullshit." Surely quite a bit of mainstream dogma believes in this idea that all a guy needs to do is to exercise more and to eat less, but it is merely dogma that gets a lot of press as if it were the simple solution.

Yes, many of us here would likely concede that, a guy can get results from following the "cut calories" dogma, but he is likely doing other more specific things including cutting carbs and processed foods as well. And there can be problems with getting sufficient nutrients if a guy merely cuts calories... and does NOT concern himself with the kinds of calories.

Both of these myths about calories and exercise are debunked quite directly and specifically in a couple of Gary Taubes's books. One of his books on topic is called "Good calories and bad calories" and the other book is called "why we get fat and what to do about it." The second one is easier to read and a newer version of the first, though the first one has more science in it.

[Biz]

I'm a naturally skinny dude that's always been in decent shape. I became kinda skinny fat as I got into my mid-late 20's.

I quit drinking over 4 months ago. and recently I moved to a place where I walk everywhere. Within a month of walking I completely obliterated 80%+ of excess bodyfat.

My diet is still not in check however as I'm really busy, I'm def not eating enough.. Which has prob helped, but has slowed my muscle gains down.

[Saweeep]

(05-20-2014 11:35 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 07:10 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

I haven't read the thread but I have grown and lost a belly a few times in my life

Frankly, the only reason that it is ever still there is too many calories; anything else is just bullshit.

If it stops shrinking during dieting, restrict calories further.

Simple.

I would suggest reading the thread before you attempt to simplify matters too specifically or to suggest that ideas other than your own are "bullshit." Surely quite a bit of mainstream dogma believes in this idea that all a guy needs to do is to exercise more and to eat less, but it is merely dogma that gets a lot of press as if it were the simple solution.

Yes, many of us here would likely concede that, a guy can get results from following the "cut calories" dogma, but he is likely doing other more specific things including cutting carbs and processed foods as well. And there can be problems with getting sufficient nutrients if a guy merely cuts calories... and does NOT concern himself with the kinds of calories.

Both of these myths about calories and exercise are debunked quite directly and specifically in a couple of Gary Taubes's books. One of his books on topic is called "Good calories and bad calories" and the other book is called "why we get fat and what to do about it." The second one is easier to read and a newer version of the first, though the first one has more science in it.

Perhaps.

There are books on everything though, good sir.

Oddly enough, as a multi site gym business owner and employer of 100s of fitness instructors, I am yet to hear of a single person who has been unable to lose weight by following prescribed advice.

Perhaps we are just lucky and none of these guys immune to diet and exercise never come to us.

I will always take what I see in front of my eyes over stuff off the 'net.

I apologise if that offends you.

[Moma]

(05-20-2014 12:33 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

Perhaps.

There are books on everything though, good sir.

Oddly enough, as a multi site gym business owner and employer of 100s of fitness instructors, I am yet to hear of a single person who has been unable to lose weight by following prescribed advice.

Perhaps we are just lucky and none of these guys immune to diet and exercise never come to us.

I will always take what I see in front of my eyes over stuff off the 'net.

I apologise if that offends you.

It's not that simple, mate and there are other factors involved. The effects that certain foods have on the body can affect fat storage. We speaking from a North American perspective and there are a lot of GM foods here that claim a certain caloric value yet will affect the body in different ways.

To claim that, you just watched your diet and lost weight is too simplistic here. This thread is combining science as well as practical application to produce results.

[RexImperator]

People are not machines though. The endocrine system and brain play a role.

While nothing invalidates thermodynamics, "calories in, calories out" does nothing to address why people eat too much.

[Saweeep]

(05-20-2014 12:43 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 12:33 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

Perhaps.

There are books on everything though, good sir.

Oddly enough, as a multi site gym business owner and employer of 100s of fitness instructors, I am yet to hear of a single person who has been unable to lose weight by following prescribed advice.

Perhaps we are just lucky and none of these guys immune to diet and exercise never come to us.

I will always take what I see in front of my eyes over stuff off the 'net.

I apologise if that offends you.

It's not that simple, mate and there are other factors involved. The effects that certain foods have on the body can affect fat storage. We speaking from a North American perspective and there are a lot of GM foods here that claim a certain caloric value yet will affect the body in different ways.

To claim that, you just watched your diet and lost weight is too simplistic here. This thread is combining science as well as practical application to produce results.

OK, I'm gonna go away and read the whole thread now.

I may have something useful to add afterwards

Apologies for the inadvertent de-rail!

[Giovonny]

I think this thread is now officially OVER THINKING this problem.

People who have a belly -- Eat Too Much Bad Food.

It really is that simple.

People with flat, toned, stomachs -- Don't Eat Bad Food.

So, if you want to eliminate the belly, eliminate the bad food.

*****

6 weeks ago, I had a slight belly.

I read this thread. I got motivated.

I stopped eating out at restaurants, I stopped eating processed food, I stopped eating sugar and sweets, I stopped eating late at night.

My belly went away.

It was easy. It just takes discipline and meal planning/preparation.

[sportbilly]

@ Giovanny. Out of interest what does your diet consist of now v before? I think working out goes hand in hand with a good diet though.....is it me but I see lots of "skinny" girls (and guys).....with flabby bodies....if that makes any sense?

[JayJuanGee]

(05-20-2014 12:33 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 11:35 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 07:10 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

I haven't read the thread but I have grown and lost a belly a few times in my life

Frankly, the only reason that it is ever still there is too many calories; anything else is just bullshit.

If it stops shrinking during dieting, restrict calories further.

Simple.

I would suggest reading the thread before you attempt to simplify matters too specifically or to suggest that ideas other than your own are "bullshit." Surely quite a bit of mainstream dogma believes in this idea that all a guy needs to do is to exercise more and to eat less, but it is merely dogma that gets a lot of press as if it were the simple solution.

Yes, many of us here would likely concede that, a guy can get results from following the "cut calories" dogma, but he is likely doing other more specific things including cutting carbs and processed foods as well. And there can be problems with getting sufficient nutrients if a guy merely cuts calories... and does NOT concern himself with the kinds of calories.

Both of these myths about calories and exercise are debunked quite directly and specifically in a couple of Gary Taubes's books. One of his books on topic is called "Good calories and bad calories" and the other book is called "why we get fat and what to do about it." The second one is easier to read and a newer version of the first, though the first one has more science in it.

Perhaps.

There are books on everything though, good sir.

Oddly enough, as a multi site gym business owner and employer of 100s of fitness instructors, I am yet to hear of a single person who has been unable to lose weight by following prescribed advice.

Perhaps we are just lucky and none of these guys immune to diet and exercise never come to us.

I will always take what I see in front of my eyes over stuff off the 'net.

I apologise if that offends you.

I am NOT just recommending random books in order to argue my point. these books that I cited are very insightful to provide examples regarding how far mainstream dogma will go in order to convince us about some of these myths. Yes, a guy at a gym can make a lot of money off of the mainstream dogma and mainstream medicine and "health" consults make a lot of money off of giving bad information that causes people to continue to need their services.

In other words, some books and information is more genuine than other information and frequently, it can be easy to be fooled by the difference between the good and the NOT so good.

Additionally, the human body can take a lot of abuse, especially when we are younger; however, merely b/c some practices may have worked while younger with curves and muscles in the right places does NOT mean that it is good for an older body that may become more sensitive (more insulin resistant, more easily inflamed, more vulnerable to retain fat) because of prior unknown and /or unwitting abuses.

[Giovonny]

(05-20-2014 01:03 PM)sportbilly Wrote:  

@ Giovanny. Out of interest what does your diet consist of now v before?

Before:

I would eat out almost everyday...

Thai curry with white rice
Mexican food from the local taco shop
Cajun food from the local Creole place
Italian food from a restaurant.

All these places use butter, oils, and sauces that are not good for the belly.

Plus, I would eat:

Donuts
Cookies
Cake

----------

After:

I cook my own food:

Baked fish
Baked chicken
Chicken soup/stew

Fresh vegetables

Salads

Homemade beans

Yams

Smoothies (nuts, fruit, protein powder)

Eggs and avocados

*****

Restaurant food is often processed food.

Homemade food is almost always cleaner and better for the belly.

*****

I exercise everyday!

If you don't exercise, you must be even more careful with your diet.

[JayJuanGee]

(05-20-2014 01:11 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 01:03 PM)sportbilly Wrote:  

@ Giovanny. Out of interest what does your diet consist of now v before?

Before:

I would eat out almost everyday...

Thai curry with white rice
Mexican food from the local taco shop
Cajun food from the local Creole place
Italian food from a restaurant.

All these places use butter, oils, and sauces that are not good for the belly.

Plus, I would eat:

Donuts
Cookies
Cake

----------

After:

I cook my own food:

Baked fish
Baked chicken
Chicken soup/stew

Fresh vegetables

Homemade beans

Yams

Smoothies (nuts, fruit, protein powder)


*****

Restaurant food is often processed food.

Homemade food is almost always cleaner and better for the belly.

*****

I exercise everyday!

If you don't exercise, you must be even more careful with your diet.

Restaurants will also use cheap and good tasting products (transfats). They will NOT use butter, but instead they will use imitation butter.

They will use cheap oils such as corn oil hydrogenated oils or partially hydrogenated oils. They will add msg and sugar and high fructose corn syrup and other unknown and addictive ingredients.


Regarding your earlier point about overthinking this thread, I do NOT think so.

Belly fat can be very complicated based on a lot of misinformation out there and belly fat can tie into a lot of lifestyle factors, and individual sensitivities that may or may NOT be reversible. Surely, there are more simple ways to express some ideas, and some simple changes may work for some guys.

On the other hand, some guys (myself NOT excluded) may NOT be ready, willing or able to process or to accept some kinds of information regarding lifestyle, diet or exercise b/c of our prior experiences (and or learning) that may be faulty and continuously misdirected.

[Giovonny]

(05-20-2014 01:23 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

Belly fat can be very complicated

I don't think it's "complicated" at all.

Belly fat = Too much bad food

Reduce bad food = reduce belly fat.

It's that simple.

[Moma]

JayJuanGee, can you recommend some very high fibrous foods? High fibre intake can also positively affect the growing paunch as it will cleanse out lingering toxins and undigested foods and deter snacking.

I used to eat a lot of garri which was working wonders and kept me beastlike in the gym etc but as of late, it has had me tired like a mother..so I've cut it out for about six months now..

[JayJuanGee]

(05-20-2014 01:28 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 01:23 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

Belly fat can be very complicated

I don't think it "complicated" at all.

Belly fat = Too much bad food

Reduce bad food = reduce belly fat.

It's that simple.

Actually, what you are saying regarding simplicity may work for a majority of people, and I agree that diet is very important.

Nonetheless, to boil down reducing belly fat to reducing "bad food" disregards the various specifics regarding which foods are good and which foods are bad.

I agree with your general prescription of eating whole foods rather than processed foods, and if you recommend for guys to eat what our grandparents ate, then I would agree with that, too. Westin price foundation talks about eating whole foods, and is a good source of information regarding that direction.

(05-20-2014 01:33 PM)Moma Wrote:  

JayJuanGee, can you recommend some very high fibrous foods? High fibre intake can also positively affect the growing paunch as it will cleanse out lingering toxins and undigested foods and deter snacking.

I used to eat a lot of garri which was working wonders and kept me beastlike in the gym etc but as of late, it has had me tired like a mother..so I've cut it out for about six months now..

I'm sorry to be a fud-dud, but I had read some articles a while back about fiber being overrated (especially when people supplement with fiber and when the fiber is gotten from breads and "whole" grains), and there remain questions about whether we should seek out to increase fiber in our diets. Probably if we eat a loto of carbs, then we need more fiber, but if we do NOT eat a lot of carbs, then what is the purpose of the fibre?

Surely there seems to be some credible ideas about fiber slowing down the absorption of sugars (glucose) in the food, and I agree with the idea of eating some foods in their whole form rather than breaking the foods down into juices or powders. I think that is part of the reason that I personally prefer blending over juicing.. b/c frequently, I prefer to make sure that I eat the whole food rather than just the juices or some broken down derivative.

In the end, I gather that you are of the belief that fiber benefits in the deterring of snacking; however, I really have my doubts about the satiation effect of fiber - because if your fibers are coming from grains, or starches, then you are likely overloading by combining them. IN other words, you may be getting more bad effects from the starch and grains than you are benefiting from the fibre contained therein. Garri seems to be mostly a starch, so it should be in the same category as rice and potato, and in essence to be eaten in moderation b/c it is mostly a starch. I am NOT very familiar with Garri, but I doubt that it has any major nutrient benefit that cannot be gotten from other food sources.

Maybe Garri worked while you were younger, but our bodies become more sensitive to the overloading of carbohydrates when we get older.

I think that part of the myth about fiber is the suggestion that a guy needs to get them from whole grains, and really that is misleading b/c grains tend to cause more problems than any benefits that they bring. Surely, we can feed a lot more people in the world b/c of grains, but the diets of these more people are NOT as good as if they were eating free ranged meats.

I think that environmental sustainability and all of that is all fine and dandy, but I think that here, we are talking about our individual health and NOT saving the world.

Probably you can get as much fiber as necessary from eating a few leafy greens. But you may NOT need very much fiber at all if you are NOT eating so many carbs. I think that the benefits of some of the vegetables comes from the assistance with digestive enzymes, and yes, I am becoming more inclined to believe that having 20% or so of various carbs and/or starches can be good for our bodies' maintenance of good gut flora.. and probably sufficient fiber will come from eating many foods in their whole forms rather than getting them processed.

[Moma]

JayJuanGee, I always follow what works for me. Some say do not workout on a full stomach..but my workouts are at a detriment if I go to the gym with an empty stomach.

Some may say fiber doesn't work and it isn't bro science but one cannot argue with the mirror. I'm still not a fan of the mostly vegetables as they do not fill me. I tried the green veg with olive oil and fish, chicken for a week..eating pretty much only that and I was cranky, ill tempered and constantly hungry for the entire week. I pretty much only eat veg because they are good for you, not because of the way they make me feel.

There has to be an optimal compromise regarding this intake thing.

[Giovonny]

(05-20-2014 01:33 PM)Moma Wrote:  

cleanse out lingering toxins and undigested foods and deter snacking.

Cleaning out toxins and undigested food..?

1) Fresh Vegetables
2) Fresh Fruit
3) Vegetable Juice

4) Water with lemon

5) Fasting

(05-20-2014 02:23 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

I agree that diet is very important.

Of course. Diet is the most important thing!

Fat people are fat because of their diet.

JayJuanGee,

If you are participating in this thread, I will assume that you have a belly or recently had a belly..

You seem to be suggesting that your belly was created by something other than "bad food".

My question is simple..

What caused your belly?

For most people, the answer is easy.. Too much bad food..

You seem unsatisfied with that answer..

What is your answer?

What caused your belly?

I'm genuinely curious now..

[Monty Brown]

Cutting carbs/calories, eating clean, no meals within four hours of sleeping, green tea, avc, and lifting weights; that is all great, but I think the most important thing one needs to do to get rid of their belly, is to increase their metabolism. Thiat can be done pretty easily with a HIIT routine a few days a week.

So no more running two or three miles or running non stop for an hour.4 or 5 sets of all out sprinting for 30 seconds and the just walk for a minute or two. Do that twice a day three or four days a week and I guarantee your belly goes away. (As long as you watch your diet and all the other stuff.)

Just look at the bodies of 100 meter sprinters compared to distance runners.

My bad if that advice has already been given here.

[Chaos]

(05-20-2014 01:28 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 01:23 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

Belly fat can be very complicated

I don't think it's "complicated" at all.

Belly fat = Too much bad food

Reduce bad food = reduce belly fat.

It's that simple.

Gio. Let me tell you a little story.

Reduce bad food= reduce belly fat.
In theory yes. It's obviously caused by too much bad food at some point in life.
But to get rid of belly fat is easier said than done for many people.

I cut all the junk food out of my life for 5-6 years ago. Only time I cheat is on my travels. I exercise 5 days a weeks and I still have a layer of fat that is unreal stubborn to get rid off. Honestly I don't know if it's worth thr effort and time to take it to the next level to get rid of it.

BUT, my point it that I have friends who are ripped as fuck with very low body fat, they are not super muscular, but still look athletic.

Guess what. These guys eat what the fuck they want
and doesn't work out at all. I see them drink beer, eat chips, ice cream , soda all other shit you can think of and they won't gain a single gram. They still look the same! Actually these guys come from the same family so I don't know what is running in their veins.

These guys use to say " well, I move around in work a lot so that's why I'm fit".
What a bunch of crap. And these guys really believes in this! Because they don't know anything better!

They are unaware of the fact that a lot of guys who are in much worse shape than them are working out several times a week and keeping a strict diet. And they are still struggeling hard to get to the same level as them.

Without being a "working out denialist" I have to say that some guys are just blessed with an amazing metabolism. And some guys not.
I belong to the guys who have to fight and diet for every single gram of fat loss.

Guys blessed with a good metabolism often don't realise how lucky they are.

[sheesh]

(05-20-2014 07:10 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

I haven't read the thread but I have grown and lost a belly a few times in my life

Frankly, the only reason that it is ever still there is too many calories; anything else is just bullshit.

If it stops shrinking during dieting, restrict calories further.

Simple.

Agreed, intake of calories must be lower than what you burn, anything else is BS.

[sheesh]

(05-20-2014 06:27 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 01:33 PM)Moma Wrote:  

cleanse out lingering toxins and undigested foods and deter snacking.

Cleaning out toxins and undigested food..?

1) Fresh Vegetables
2) Fresh Fruit
3) Vegetable Juice

4) Water with lemon

5) Fasting

(05-20-2014 02:23 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

I agree that diet is very important.

Of course. Diet is the most important thing!

Fat people are fat because of their diet.

JayJuanGee,

If you are participating in this thread, I will assume that you have a belly or recently had a belly..

You seem to be suggesting that your belly was created by something other than "bad food".

My question is simple..

What caused your belly?

For most people, the answer is easy.. Too much bad food..

You seem unsatisfied with that answer..

What is your answer?

What caused your belly?

I'm genuinely curious now..

You can also get a belly by eating too much "good food", whatever that is. In the end, it's all about calories. Fruits can have lots of calories as well so some juicing like crazy and eating 10 apples a day might have a higher calory intake than someone eating at McD regularly !

[kosko]

Aloe Vera is a hydrator and one of the best things you can take take internally to body to help absorb more nutrients. Aloe forces the body to extract and absorb more micro-nutrients and thus you will be less hungry and eat less (inflammatory and acidic forming) foods (which contribute to the prevalence of a gut). Aloe is part of diet of many different cultures whom use it to aid in overall vitality and body functions.

[Giovonny]

(05-21-2014 02:35 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

But to get rid of belly fat is easier said than done for many people.

It can be extremely difficult for some people. Genetics are a huge factor!

(05-21-2014 02:35 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

I cut all the junk food out of my life for 5-6 years ago.

I still have a layer of fat that is unreal stubborn to get rid off.

The last 10-15% is the most difficult.

Removing it requires a very strict diet and extreme focus and discipline.

(05-21-2014 02:35 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

I don't know if it's worth the effort and time to take it to the next level to get rid of it.

It's probably not worth it.

You probably don't lose any girls or money because of it..

(05-21-2014 02:35 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

some guys are just blessed with an amazing metabolism. And some guys not.

Yes.

Genetics are very important.

We can never hide from our genetics!

I just wanted to make the point that for 99% of people, belly fat is caused by an excess of unhealthy food.

(05-21-2014 03:52 AM)sheesh Wrote:  

You can also get a belly by eating too much "good food"

Eating too many fruits and vegetables can cause a belly?

I have never experienced or seen that..

In my experience.. People that have a belly, have it because of too much unhealthy food.

I have never seen anyone that had a belly because of too much healthy food.

(05-21-2014 03:52 AM)sheesh Wrote:  

Fruits can have lots of calories as well

Calories from fruit are not likely to become belly fat, generally speaking.

Calories from alcohol, sugar, flour, sweets, low quality fats, etc. will certainly become belly fat.

Not all calories are the same.

(05-21-2014 03:52 AM)sheesh Wrote:  

juicing like crazy and eating 10 apples a day might have a higher calory intake than someone eating at McD regularly !

Fruit vs Mcdonalds..?

Which one will help your belly and which one will hurt your belly???

The answer is obvious!

McDonalds is garbage!

Fruit is life!

*****

Again, I think this thread is OVER-THINKING this issue.

The simple fact is that -- 99% of the time, belly fat is caused by an Excess in Unhealthy Food.

[Bill]

Here in Turkey there is health guru. She says fruits are toxic because it´s pure sugar and sugar is toxic.

I think the reason why the last 10-15% is so difficult is that there are no much benefits. As a fat guy one is always somehow confronted with people who find it bad looking or one oneself feels unfit etc.

But at 15-18% there is no much reason to invest energy to do it because you see many other topics where it is more relevant to make a change.

So it´s like gaming 6 chicks and change to game 7-8 chicks. You have to invest energy from other fields in it like working to make money.