[Ironbound]

This is more of a rant, to be honest.


You guys ever have those instances where you feel like you took the sissy way out of a problem, despite everyone telling you "you did the right thing'?


To make a long story short, about a week ago on an NYC train, a man had approached me on the train station and began to say racist, deragatory things to me, literally no reason, just walked to my face and began shouting racist remarks. I simply looked at him and ignored him the whole ride.


Sounds rather dumb, but looking back, I feel like I should've swung at the guy, knocked him out clean. Something though was holding me back. Fear? I can't say. I mean, everyone is telling me that I took the right choice by not hitting him, but my mind is telling me I took the sissy/coward way out...What do you guys think?

At the end of the day, We all strive to be Real Men.

[Clash1e]

Brush it off, nothing to feel ashamed of.

You did the right thing. Important thing is you aren't harmed. Guy sounds nuts no telling what he'd be capable of.

Curious, did this guy happen to be homeless? I've seen them do a lot of crazy shit in nyc.

[Doc_J]

You did the right thing and probably the hardest. And managed to keep yourself clean. If it's not personal, brush it off.

[pitt]

No you didnt make the right choice. A guy calls you racist names for no reason, you should always react. If you didnt want to get physical with him, you could just verbally intimidate him with ''move away you idiot, who you talking to? i will punch you in the face", usually those type of guys dont really want to fight, its all talk.

Saying that, I completely understand the way you feel. Those situations make you feel like shit. i have backed down in similar situations before but it was because i was feeling physically weak and i knew my body was not ready to fight and it was actually against 3 guys that i knew i could take them all if my energy levels were normal, it kills me till today when i think that i backed down on that fight (Blame masturbation).

[bacan]

Did the right thing.

Try to imagine who would have gotten into a fight on that situation. Who do you visualize? A loser

It's macho to stand up for yourself in a case where a peer or your equal is disrespecting you but in this case all you really have to do is just say nothing, shake your head and think wow.. How sad and pathetic is that poor guy's life.

Only a loser who already gets shit on and disrespected by all other aspects of society would feel the urge to defend him or herself as if to say oh no, not you too..

[Mentavious]

That sucks bro but not physically fighting was the best thing. Who knows what he had on him.

[rudebwoy]

The obvious answer is "yes" you did the right thing BUT I would answer also no.

Another person came in your face talking crap and dis-respecting you without being provoked, in my book that has to be checked. My first reaction would be to look him dead cold in his eyes and then ask him if he would like to discuss this at the next stop. Trust me, the look I would give him would make him realize that I was not playing around and dead serious.

The second reaction, would be to say listen I just got out of jail and I am not in a hurry to go back so step back.

By checking him this will teach him a lesson and make him think twice about trying that crap to the next person.

What if you had been with your girl, what would you have done?

[samsamsam]

(07-26-2013 03:05 AM)Ironbound Wrote:  

At the end of the day, We all strive to be Real Men.

What you think a real man should be should be defined by you. I understand that you might be playing the scenario in your head over and over again, thinking about what you would do differently. But would it have been worth it? I play old scenarios in my head sometimes, my ego is clearly bruised from not handling them differently. But I could have also gotten my ass kicked, and made a mess of things. Instead I chose to use cost benefit analysis and realized no matter how much I would have liked to turn violent, it just wasn't worth it.

Keep in mind some people are just batshit crazy. And my number one rule is never argue with someone who has nothing to lose. Nothing restrains them. They may feel like life sucks so causing trouble doesn't scare them.

This might sound odd - but hop in your car go for a drive and scream your fucking head and say all the things you want to say to this knucklehead. Maybe you need to experience your experience.

[rudebwoy]

(07-26-2013 06:10 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 03:05 AM)Ironbound Wrote:  

At the end of the day, We all strive to be Real Men.

What you think a real man should be should be defined by you. I understand that you might be playing the scenario in your head over and over again, thinking about what you would do differently. But would it have been worth it? I play old scenarios in my head sometimes, my ego is clearly bruised from not handling them differently. But I could have also gotten my ass kicked, and made a mess of things. Instead I chose to use cost benefit analysis and realized no matter how much I would have liked to turn violent, it just wasn't worth it.

Keep in mind some people are just batshit crazy. And my number one rule is never argue with someone who has nothing to lose. Nothing restrains them. They may feel like life sucks so causing trouble doesn't scare them.

This might sound odd - but hop in your car go for a drive and scream your fucking head and say all the things you want to say to this knucklehead. Maybe you need to experience your experience.

What if he said crap about your moms?
What if you were with your girl?
Do you think she would still see you the same way after you took a verbal battering like that!
I am not advocating fighting, I am just asking.

[dk902]

You are your own man.

Don't feel the need to measure yourself by other peoples standards or what guys say 'they would have done' - despite the fact that if they were in that situation they probably would have acted differently.

Racism in that manner is not something an individual should have to tolerate, but so what if you acted the way you did? Who cares.

And on another level your restraint and calmness in the face of vile racism is an attribute to be commended. Men have lost their heads in less heated situations and ended up paying for it dearly.

As Rudyard Kipling says in his poem IF.

Quote:

IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you

In our Western society where the victim often ends up the one being prosecuted because of our fucked up judicial system, having a cool head is good. Who's to say it would get pinned on you and he says you attacked him if it comes to court? A long legal dispute and change on lawyers because of your ego.

With hindsight everything can be different.

Try to recognise your own individual qualities for what they are and don't worry about other people.

[samsamsam]

(07-26-2013 06:16 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 06:10 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 03:05 AM)Ironbound Wrote:  

At the end of the day, We all strive to be Real Men.

What you think a real man should be should be defined by you. I understand that you might be playing the scenario in your head over and over again, thinking about what you would do differently. But would it have been worth it? I play old scenarios in my head sometimes, my ego is clearly bruised from not handling them differently. But I could have also gotten my ass kicked, and made a mess of things. Instead I chose to use cost benefit analysis and realized no matter how much I would have liked to turn violent, it just wasn't worth it.

Keep in mind some people are just batshit crazy. And my number one rule is never argue with someone who has nothing to lose. Nothing restrains them. They may feel like life sucks so causing trouble doesn't scare them.

This might sound odd - but hop in your car go for a drive and scream your fucking head and say all the things you want to say to this knucklehead. Maybe you need to experience your experience.

What if he said crap about your moms?
What if you were with your girl?
Do you think she would still see you the same way after you took a verbal battering like that!
I am not advocating fighting, I am just asking.

rudebwoy, I respect your questions.

To be honest, I have no idea. I know in some situations I have done something and others I have not. If the guy was 300lbs of muscle, I will probably let it slide. But what do you care about a random stranger says when you will never see them again?

If someone calls you a green frog, you gonna flip out? You are not a green frog are you?

If the guy is whacked out in the head - do I care what a crazy person thinks? Maybe some compassion is in order for the fucked up guy who thinks saying this stuff is ok? can you imagine the nightmare that is in his head?

Do you think your mom would want to visit you in the morgue because you got upset with a mom joke? I am all for self-control. If you let people push your buttons, you are no longer in control.

Now for some they might react differently. Things said may touch a deep rooted experience and all that pain surges to the surface. But maybe that person could spend some time working on that deep rooted painful experience and get some healing done.

My issue is that there are a lot of people counting on me and I have things I could lose if something goes bad. These are the two things that keep me in check. But, I rarely get into these altercations. It rarely happens to me, I don't go to clubs and places where a lot of idiots go to.

Bottom line, I don't know what I would do. But I will admit my post was all over the place. Work sucks, enough said.

[Beyond Borders]

(07-26-2013 03:05 AM)Ironbound Wrote:  

This is more of a rant, to be honest.

You guys ever have those instances where you feel like you took the sissy way out of a problem, despite everyone telling you "you did the right thing'?

To make a long story short, about a week ago on an NYC train, a man had approached me on the train station and began to say racist, deragatory things to me, literally no reason, just walked to my face and began shouting racist remarks. I simply looked at him and ignored him the whole ride.

Sounds rather dumb, but looking back, I feel like I should've swung at the guy, knocked him out clean. Something though was holding me back. Fear? I can't say. I mean, everyone is telling me that I took the right choice by not hitting him, but my mind is telling me I took the sissy/coward way out...What do you guys think?

At the end of the day, We all strive to be Real Men.

Ironbound, I feel as I'm especially qualified on this one as I have been in a lot of fights (most consisting of not much more than clobbering some asshole for being an asshole) - I don't even know how many anymore. All I can tell you is that one thing I've learned over the years is that you can't knock out every idiot in the world, and if you try, you run the risk of either ending up dead or in jail someday. You'll never run out of douchebags to put in their place if that's how you decide you want to approach your life.

I've not ended up either, fortunately, but neither can I think of too many physical altercations that improved my life or were worth it.

Perhaps you could have saved some kind of dignity? Maybe. But from who? How can an undignified person take your dignity? A violent response certainly wouldn't have cured the world of racism. What if instead of writing this post today you were waking up in jail? Or the hospital? Would it have been worth it then?

Now, I'm not going to say there's never a time for violence because I still believe that it is sometimes the answer. But I will say to be careful that you choose your battles very carefully.

I'll also say that sometimes you have an instinct that you aren't aware of. Sometimes you don't act in the face of a threat because something in your gut tells you that you're in over your head. Like maybe the guy was packing something or was especially crazy or abnormally capable fighter. This instinct has saved me a few times.

Don't beat yourself up about it. We've all got instances in our past where we felt we could have said things different or acted differently. But the past is in the past - leave it there. You have no way of knowing what a different reaction would have led to, so don't dwell on it.

It sounds horribly cliche, but sometimes being a real man in today's world truly is knowing when to walk away. Crazy, random strangers on subways are usually just not worth the risk unless they have gotten to the point of physically threatening or harming you or are harming another passenger.

Just my two cents.

[Acute Angle]

Ask yourself which is most important to you: your ego or your physical health?

[cardguy]

You did the right thing. Always walk away...

http://captaincapitalism.blogspot.co.uk/...-jail.html

[Zeus]

A while back, i got into an fender bender. A car turned into my lane and i swiped him. The lane was an odd one where it was one but was wide enough to be two. I was on the right driving straight while basically everyone else was in the left turning left.

Technically i shouldn't have been driving there but it was the norm.

In the insurance world, it was 100% his fault. He drove into my lane. No question.

We exchanged info and i made it sound like it was my fault. I just wanted out of there and on my way.

I spoke to him on the phone later that day and said I'm not paying anything. He asked why i implied I was at fault at the scene. I said because i didn't know who he was or what his temper was like.

His response. "well, i am a black belt in (can't remember)


So, you did right. You never fucking know.

You're not Alpha or a man lying on the street.

[WestCoast]

^

Best post on here.

People who get into physical fights have nothing to lose.

If you have your life 100% in tact, firing on all gears, no point in fighting a random stranger on a bus.

When I got my first job, my roomate was 5 years older than me, cool black dude.

He got tons of racism, it was a bit out of control. The funniest was when we walked into an all Asian club and people ran out of his way .

He always kept cool though as he said "I work at xyz, I have everything to lose. There is no point."

Dude had strong game too.

[jakester318]

I personally subscribe to the idea that mere incendiary words coming out of someone's mouth does not obligate you to use your fists. To be a REAL MAN, a man should be able to control himself in a situation that does not require action. I actually think that your response was beautiful because you said nothing. You didn't engage the man in his folly. All too often I see/hear people react to the words of other people, appearing just as foolish as the person who said the stupid thing. You cannot reason with a fool, your words will only escalate the situation or just cause you and him to have a war of words and what would be the point?

His words are only his words. He's a fool. You don't have to own his words and let them anger you because you have to consider the source. This situation is a lot like game, I think. A girl can say silly shit to you and do you knock her out? If you approach a girl and she calls you an asshole or a douchebag, do you slap her? They are just words and though they can incite anger and rage, you don't have to let it do that to you. It's about self-control.

Plus, odds are that the dude was on some kind of shit or he may have been a schizophrenic. I've seen guys berate people like you described and everybody knew that the guy was "touched." So you really have to consider that the man was not in his right mind because rational and prudent people do not behave like that.

[samsamsam]

You controlled your frame and then controlled the situation because you didn't buy his argument. So you won. He couldn't bait you into his nonsense.

Random thought - A college professor said this to my friend once. "Your lips are moving but no words are coming out." Made me laugh. She was talking though. You could have said that but would have just made him more crazy.

[WestIndianArchie]

Lotta people in the penitentiary and graveyard cause they didn't want to get punked.

Your ego's hurt, but you living and breathing in the free world.

WIA

[Sp5]

Obviously did the right thing. Guy was mentally ill.

[Chrysalis]

There was a Louis CK episode where he's on a date, some punk punks him out, Louis does the right thing avoiding conflict, the date loses respect for him.

Was it the right thing to do? Depends on who was watching.

[Acute Angle]

(07-30-2013 01:25 AM)Chrysalis Wrote:  

There was a Louis CK episode where he's on a date, some punk punks him out, Louis does the right thing avoiding conflict, the date loses respect for him.

Was it the right thing to do? Depends on who was watching.

Change the datee. Any woman who loses respect because I refuse to endanger my life with a lunatic just to look good in her all-evaluating eye has no place in my world.

[Chrysalis]

(07-30-2013 04:24 AM)Acute Angle Wrote:  

(07-30-2013 01:25 AM)Chrysalis Wrote:  

There was a Louis CK episode where he's on a date, some punk punks him out, Louis does the right thing avoiding conflict, the date loses respect for him.

Was it the right thing to do? Depends on who was watching.

Change the datee. Any woman who loses respect because I refuse to endanger my life with a lunatic just to look good in her all-evaluating eye has no place in my world.

That would be every woman ever.

[Seadog]

I don't even understand why your ego would be hurt. Some random guy, started talking shit to you in front of some random people. I guarantee people are saying worse things on the net. Does that bother you? Are you worried about your reputation to those strangers? Or that the guy talking shit is out bragging to his friends about how he dominated you? The best advice is that which your mom gave you as child. Ignore it. If he gets a rise out of you, then you've given him power. The power to control your emotions. *If* you respond, your prove nothing more than you're insecure and have something to prove. Even if you kick his ass, you've only proven that you're stronger than him, but also were so insecure that you needed to physically dominate him.

Picture me ranting in front of Bill Gates' house about how stupid and poor he is. Telling all the passer-bys that. Would he respond? He almost certainly wouldn't come out front and try and start shit. Because what I'm saying is so ridiculous that it's not even worth his time to acknowledge. That's why agree and amplify is a good solution in these sorts of situations. He's trying to get a rise, you're clearly not having it, you agree with him so he can't argue, and if he's unsuccessful at bothering you, it may in turn frustrate him giving you the power. But even still, dealing with something like this, an unprovoked verbal shit storm, I'd probably just try to quietly end/get out of the situation as quickly as possible. He could be unstable, he could be crazy, you never know. From some of the posts here it sounds like people think it's not possible to lose a fight.