[Huey]

(02-25-2018 12:45 PM)Kentemo Wrote:  

I know this is a bit of an impossible question, but which would be the best one to learn: Python or Ruby?
(concerning that it will be my first language, I can spend 4+ hours a day, and that I want to find a remote job with it),

Are there more Ruby jobs than Python?

Python is used everywhere. Ruby on the other hand is a pretty niche language - it's not used much outside of web development. So naturally there will be more Python jobs than Ruby jobs. Ruby is also declining in popularity (more and more bootcamps for example are dropping it for JavaScript and Node.js instead), but that doesn't mean there aren't any jobs for Rails developers. Rails as a framework has stood the test of time so I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon. People have been pronouncing the death of Rails since Node was first introduced and it's still strong as ever.

I wouldn't get hung up on which one to learn. Once you learn the fundamentals of programming, learning any programming language (and its frameworks) becomes easy. A Rails developer could probably learn Django in a week and vice versa.

However, if I were to choose one to start with, I'd probably go with JavaScript. I'm a bit biased since it's my favorite language but it has obvious advantages of the other two: 1) you can use it on both the backend and frontend, 2) you can use it to make mobile apps via frameworks like React Native, 3) you have to learn it anyways to write client-side code, so why not learn it first?

[Praetor Lupus]

(02-25-2018 01:52 PM)Huey Wrote:  

However, if I were to choose one to start with, I'd probably go with JavaScript. I'm a bit biased since it's my favorite language but it has obvious advantages of the other two: 1) you can use it on both the backend and frontend, 2) you can use it to make mobile apps via frameworks like React Native, 3) you have to learn it anyways to write client-side code, so why not learn it first?

I'd agree. I've been tallying terms used in job descriptions from a load of developer vacancies to see what I need to research in order to start applying for a position later this year. It doesn't matter what type of job I look at - web dev (obviously), general software dev, Python dev - JavaScript comes up more often than not.

[Blaster]

(02-25-2018 01:52 PM)Huey Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 12:45 PM)Kentemo Wrote:  

I know this is a bit of an impossible question, but which would be the best one to learn: Python or Ruby?
(concerning that it will be my first language, I can spend 4+ hours a day, and that I want to find a remote job with it),

Are there more Ruby jobs than Python?

Python is used everywhere. Ruby on the other hand is a pretty niche language - it's not used much outside of web development. So naturally there will be more Python jobs than Ruby jobs. Ruby is also declining in popularity (more and more bootcamps for example are dropping it for JavaScript and Node.js instead), but that doesn't mean there aren't any jobs for Rails developers. Rails as a framework has stood the test of time so I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon. People have been pronouncing the death of Rails since Node was first introduced and it's still strong as ever.

I wouldn't get hung up on which one to learn. Once you learn the fundamentals of programming, learning any programming language (and its frameworks) becomes easy. A Rails developer could probably learn Django in a week and vice versa.

However, if I were to choose one to start with, I'd probably go with JavaScript. I'm a bit biased since it's my favorite language but it has obvious advantages of the other two: 1) you can use it on both the backend and frontend, 2) you can use it to make mobile apps via frameworks like React Native, 3) you have to learn it anyways to write client-side code, so why not learn it first?

You have any thoughts on compile-to-javascript languages like coffeescript?

[Huey]

I think CoffeeScript (and compile-to-JS languages, with the exception of TypeScript) has outlived its usefulness. CoffeeScript was appealing because it had a lot of cool features that JS didn't while also being familiar to developers who come from a Python or Ruby background. Now, JavaScript, with the introduction of ES6, has those features too (e.g. string interpolation, 'classes', destructuring, splats/rest arguments, etc). So is there really any reason to use Coffeescript, aside from maintaining legacy code (a lot of older Rails projects still use CoffeeScript)? I don't think so, especially since JavaScript is getting better every year.

[redpillage]

Look guys, before thinking about which language to learn tell me what type of work you are interested in. If you want to work on actual crypto currency or blockchain related projects then you'll have to learn C/C++ and most definitely python. The latter is sufficient if you want to build a pertinent service, where you just need to access a feed or build a web interface. JavaScript is helpful but there are a ton of script kiddies out there and you'll be competing with them.

My advice would be to delve into the quant finance space that's now in the process of expanding into crypto currencies. Python is essential but if you want to get a job in the industry you probably want to be firm on Matlab or Mathematica. Good math skills are very helpful of course but you'd be surprised how much you can pick up if you attend a few online courses and study your ass off.

[DeuceOne]

(03-02-2018 01:29 PM)redpillage Wrote:  

Look guys, before thinking about which language to learn tell me what type of work you are interested in. If you want to work on actual crypto currency or blockchain related projects then you'll have to learn C/C++ and most definitely python. The latter is sufficient if you want to build a pertinent service, where you just need to access a feed or build a web interface. JavaScript is helpful but there are a ton of script kiddies out there and you'll be competing with them.

My advice would be to delve into the quant finance space that's now in the process of expanding into crypto currencies. Python is essential but if you want to get a job in the industry you probably want to be firm on Matlab or Mathematica. Good math skills are very helpful of course but you'd be surprised how much you can pick up if you attend a few online courses and study your ass off.

The quant finance space does seem like something I'd be interested in looking into. I came across a website who breaks down the self-study material needed in order to be considered for quant finance developer jobs, Pyhton, C++, SQL definitely seem to always come up.

Self-Study-Plan-for-Becoming-a-Quantitative-Developer

[Praetor Lupus]

I applied for my first two front end web development jobs this afternoon. Commercial experience isn't required, but I have some additional skills they can make use of.

I want to get some solid professional experience for a year while I work towards becoming a full stack developer.

[nzd]

what are the best cities for tech jobs? not only in the US but around the world

[RichieP]

(03-16-2018 03:18 PM)nzd Wrote:  

what are the best cities for tech jobs? not only in the US but around the world

Better brush up on your googling son! "global tech hubs" should do it

[heavy]

Following up on my previous post, I've been working through python (mostly with Colt's Udemy course...plus a few other sources).

Any thoughts on ByteAcademy's Remote class(http://byteacademy.co/remote/)?

I'm not quitting my job to go take a bootcamp, but I want to take something where I'll get career networking. Plus it might help to get a fire under my ass to really cram away.

Any thoughts?

[Praetor Lupus]

I'm doing Colt's web development course on Udemy at the moment and it's solid stuff. I've got a couple of his other courses in the queue ready to go once I've done that, as well as a load of others. I'll probably sign up to a monthly Lynda subscription once I've got some cash coming in again, too.

[Atom89]

For those pursuing this option.

You can learn and use projects from (C#, Java, JavaScript, Python, PHP, C++):

-Treehouse
-Pluralsight
-Lynda
-Udemy
-Udacity
-Codeadacemy
-Free code camp

Also there are nanodegree's in web, app, software development at Udacity,Treehouse, intensive courses at Codeacademy.

[Praetor Lupus]

From Lynda I'd recommend the Programming Foundations courses in Basics and Object Orientated Programming if you're relatively new to the subject. The OOP course in particular has now basically opened up whole new areas for me in the languages I'm studying. The way I was learning languages individually before wasn't giving me the understanding in basic OOP theory I needed.

The Lynda OOP course also goes into the diagrams you're likely to use as a professional, which adds another shit ton of value. Just a few hours on each and you should be ready to get to work putting the concepts to use in your chosen language - and of course Lynda has courses in them too.

I've still got my Udemy courses to do but Lynda is my favourite right now.

And as soon as I get some cash coming in I want to hit Udacity's full stack nanodegree.

[Gopnik]

Slightly off topic, but thought I'd share an old video and article from Maverick Traveler about his experiences in programming.

https://mavericktraveler.com/6-reasons-w...ogrammers/

He basically argues that programming fucks your social skills, forces you to compete against cheap labour from india and after only a few years most programmers move to a managerial role (it's meant to be a promotion I think, but he seems to mean this in a negative way which seems a bit contradictive).

I've actually come accross similar testimonies from different guys and while they make good points, I've noticed they all tend to have a few things in common.

It seems it's usually what Maverick calls the "natural" developers that end up getting burned out and eventually despise programming. The hardcore nerds that are completely dedicated to their craft for many years to the point of exhaustion.

While I understand you won't ncessarily get rich by programming, salaries in developed countries are still pretty decent and you also have the possibility of working remotely down the line, freelancing or using your coding skills to build your own web app. I understand there's some downsides to it, just like in any industry. People get burned out in finance, tech, law... you name it. I'd be happy to hear from other members' experiences on this.

[Giacomo Casanova]

Yeah I would say that the plus that programming is bringing (having the possibility to be location indipendent, creativity, developing your own business, being above the average salary in the country the programmer is working, etc.) is way higher than usual jobs in finance, law, etc. Just think that most admin jobs in numerous industries eventually will be done by robots and who is able to program and maintain such robots will always make the market.

[flanders]

FYI: I haven't gotten very good at Python yet and am still working on a Udemy class.

That being said, there's a very interesting website that popped up while googling on how to get a coding job.

https://teachyourselfcs.com/

One of my friends at work is getting his computer science degree (completed) in a month or two and was surprised at my optimism regarding "just learning python" and getting a coding job. He said there's a glut of idiots with the same idea and it would be smart to learn some computer science, and I ended up at this page.

Why Should You Learn CompSci? Wrote:

Why learn computer science?

There are 2 types of software engineer: those who understand computer science well enough to do challenging, innovative work, and those who just get by because they’re familiar with a few high level tools.

Both call themselves software engineers, and both tend to earn similar salaries in their early careers. But Type 1 engineers grow in to more fullfilling and well-remunerated work over time, whether that’s valuable commercial work or breakthrough open-source projects, technical leadership or high-quality individual contributions.

Type 1 engineers find ways to learn computer science in depth, whether through conventional means or by relentlessly learning throughout their careers. Type 2 engineers typically stay at the surface, learning specific tools and technologies rather than their underlying foundations, only picking up new skills when the winds of technical fashion change.

Currently, the number of people entering the industry is rapidly increasing, while the number of CS grads is essentially static. This oversupply of Type 2 engineers is starting to reduce their employment opportunities and keep them out of the industry’s more fulfilling work. Whether you’re striving to become a Type 1 engineer or simply looking for more job security, learning computer science is the only reliable path.

On site, there's 10 resources with one alternate resource apiece, each with a suggested study time of 100-200 hours. Worth checking out.

[RichieP]

^They are Comp Sci instructors. No surprise they're suggesting everyone learn 1-2k hours of Comp Sci.

[ts58]

Guys, a little bit of career advice for those going into dev from a dev. You don't need a formal education, but if you are going the self study route you had better be able to show projects you have worked on. All the self study online courses are only meant to bring you up to speed. They alone will not get you a job, knowing people is crucial.

Pound for pound, a company will take the CS grad over a bootcamp grad. Interview and social skills aside, the differentiator is what have you built?

[Atom89]

I agree partially to what ts58 has stated, you don't need a degree/be a graduate to get a junior developer job, self studying with solid projects will do the deal.

If you're struggling for projects, you can learn and use projects from various languages from:

1) Treehouse
2) Udemy
3) Lynda
4) Pluralsight
5) Udacity
6) Code Acadmy
7) Zenva
8) Free code camp

[TheFinalEpic]

One of my partners is a CS grad, full software engineer and what I'd call a wizard. It's tough for even him to get a job, hence why he joined the team to have something on his resume (although if all pans out he'll never have to work elsewhere).

Having a list of previous software or tools you have built is important. Everyday people will be blown away by something as simple as a password manager.

Why python? I'm partial to python, as it's where I fell in love with programming. Ruby is super niche as stated above. Python is general purpose in that there are libraries for almost anything you can think of. Data science, web development, finance, a lot of linux apps, and as of late, machine learning, are all heavily invested in the python world. It's easy to start, and you can get the jest in an afternoon, but the lifetime study and ability to create minimal code is paramount.

[TheFinalEpic]

(03-16-2018 03:34 PM)RichieP Wrote:  

(03-16-2018 03:18 PM)nzd Wrote:  

what are the best cities for tech jobs? not only in the US but around the world

Better brush up on your googling son! "global tech hubs" should do it

Googling is 85% of being a good programmer. You're behind the 8-ball there nzd.

[frenchcorporation]

(04-04-2018 11:53 AM)Gopnik Wrote:  

He basically argues that programming fucks your social skills

I wrote the OP, in my flat in a shit part of manchester, where i mas making £1400 a month after tax.

Now, I make more than £10,000 after tax, which has allowed me to pick up multiple non-programming skills at a rapid pace that has seriously boosted my sociability.

For example, about a month ago me and my friend had a chance encounter In london with two foreigners , and because I happened to speak their (very uncommon) language, we partied with them & they invited me and my friend to party with them in their expensive-as-fuck country. We accepted the invite and flew out about ten days later ....& now i have a whole new social circle in a country that I can visit at will, & this isnt the first time this has happened to me either

None of the above (being able to connect with them quickly + being able to afford to head out there whenever) would have been possible without the money from programming. Anybody whose social skills is ruined by programming only has themselves & their lack of imagination to blame.

(04-04-2018 11:53 AM)Gopnik Wrote:  

forces you to compete against cheap labour from india

I've been hearing about this threat for the last 5 years and it still hasnt happened. if you have native english & live in a first-world country, you are at a massive advantage. Though most indian competition seems to go the United States, & I work in the UK, so I may be avoiding the brunt of this

(04-04-2018 11:53 AM)Gopnik Wrote:  

after only a few years most programmers move to a managerial role (it's meant to be a promotion I think, but he seems to mean this in a negative way which seems a bit contradictive).

I think it is negative, most managers are usually perm staff, whereas if you stay as a contractor you usually end up making more than your managers. Less money plus more responsiiblity makes it a no for me, and most of my contractor mates. The contractors i know that are managers love it though.

[RichieP]

^Great post.

Re: social skills -- I've never seen anyone lose social skills from deep introverted work. Unless you do it 24/7 and dont interact with humans for years. If you maintain even some semblance of a social life you will not somehow forget how to talk, laugh, joke around, flirt, etc.

What's definitely common is introverts with undeveloped social skills going into programming/STEM. In that case, it's hard to improve socially when your work is deep logical focus without interaction.

But the task itself doesn't destroy social skills lol.

[No Habit]

Hey guys, I haven't been in this forum for two years, because of becoming insane, which back then, resulted in some posts of which I am not proud of.

Anyway, here's what I did:

1. I started learning everything about Java and web development at Treehouse and also completed a Techdegree there.
2. I analyzed a whole bunch of job advertisements to get to grips with what employers were looking for and then started learning in that direction.
3. After having built a portfolio of projects, I started to apply for jobs, got invited most of the time and went to a few interviews which resulted in a job as a web developer.
   

Right now I am improving my math skills to get into the deeper layers of computer science.

I actually came here to thank you all for this thread. Two years ago french inspired me to become a developer and this dream has become a reality.

[FullThrottleTX]

(06-19-2018 05:15 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

^Great post.

Re: social skills -- I've never seen anyone lose social skills from deep introverted work. Unless you do it 24/7 and dont interact with humans for years. If you maintain even some semblance of a social life you will not somehow forget how to talk, laugh, joke around, flirt, etc.

What's definitely common is introverts with undeveloped social skills going into programming/STEM. In that case, it's hard to improve socially when your work is deep logical focus without interaction.

But the task itself doesn't destroy social skills lol.

Web Developer/Software Engineer here:
I'll weigh in on the social stuff...

I think it's really hard to find guys in this space that have game. I find it a lonely place for someone with my worldview. A lot of devs are pretty humorless and they tend to spend their free time doing things like video games instead of boozing and womanizing. Programming in general takes nearly total intellectual commitment. Kinda hard to put it aside when you're not at work. For me, it's a matter of finding the right balance between knowing my shit and being a social human.

I would definitely not discourage people from becoming engineers though, it's a great place to make some decent buckage and have bright job prospects. There is a difference between being an engineer (a creative person who comes up with solutions with code/tech) and a programmer (someone given a requirement). I am not the latter person, and I enjoy what I do, enjoy a lot of creativity. It's not true at all that programming jobs are being outsourced to India (cost is not the only concern in hiring someone), maybe in a few circumstances (like Java, it's a legacy language, nobody wants to build anything new with it other than android apps - so you just need a programmer to fix things). After a year or two of experience, it's kind of incredible how many job opportunities there are.

If you're starting out, you don't want to do Python. It's a legacy language older than even Java, it's enjoyed a good deal of growth because of AI and data science and it's being taught in CS programs but that's a harder field to bust into without a degree. Stick to web stuff, like JavaScript, Node JS, and frontend stuff like React or Angular (I'm a React dev). Node JS basically can replace Python in almost any scenario and out perform it.

Python is almost never well suited for a new project because it's slow. It enjoys some popularity because it's easy to learn and can be used almost everywhere, but unfortunately while it can be used for anything, it's almost never the best language for any one thing. If that makes any sense...

Better than being a web developer is doing DevOps stuff like managing deployments of software to AWS/Azure, those folks make a lot of money. If you can learn Docker, Kubernetes, ect - that's a great way to be secure in your future job prospects, easily make 6 figures...