[KnjazMihailo]

All I think that needs to be said about programming is in these links:

https://mavericktraveler.com/silicon-valley/
https://mavericktraveler.com/6-reasons-w...ogrammers/
https://mavericktraveler.com/why-i-left-...oked-back/

Those are my reasons that I never intend to become a programmer. If i really had to do programming I would become a web developer and offer and charge my services to private clients while living abroad and geo-arbitraging my income with western money in a non-western country.

Basically this:

https://www.brettdev.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoZ_b54lGfI

[Valentine]

(03-22-2019 11:30 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  

All I think that needs to be said about programming is in these links:

https://mavericktraveler.com/silicon-valley/
https://mavericktraveler.com/6-reasons-w...ogrammers/
https://mavericktraveler.com/why-i-left-...oked-back/

Those are my reasons that I never intend to become a programmer. If i really had to do programming I would become a web developer and offer and charge my services to private clients while living abroad and geo-arbitraging my income with western money in a non-western country.

Basically this:

https://www.brettdev.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoZ_b54lGfI

The problem is most of his criticisms apply to every job, the only exception is marketing. Whilst I don't disagree with marketing being of supreme importance (though I may be biased because it was my only focus for years) he completely ignores how powerful programming is combined with marketing. It's not an either-or situation.

I've become very tech-oriented the past few years and because of my marketing background I can see many opportunities for products, but I was never able to execute on them because I lacked programming skills. I've hired programmers to get apps developed but they take ages to develop, it's expensive and without programming skills you can't tell if it's shitcode or not. You need the skills yourself or be lucky enough to land a dedicated technical co-founder in order to prototype rapidly and test the market viability of your ideas.

He also makes entrepreneurship sound way easier than it actually is - it's years of trying and failing throwing stuff at the wall to see what works. Even when you find something that works, your business model might be unsuited for the long-term or for scaling. I see he recommends affiliate marketing and dropshipping, both product types mean you give up control and it's all too common changes happen on the product creator side which end your business.

So take his advice with a pinch of salt and if you are entrepreneurship-inclined then I advise you to think deeply on the type of business you want to create. For me it became obvious that I'm strongly inclined towards software so gaining those skills just made sense, but if you haven't tried out a number of different business models then maybe you would benefit from testing other methods first. But still, don't be put off from combining the two skills by his posts as he's not making a fair comparison.

[KnjazMihailo]

(03-23-2019 03:17 AM)Valentine Wrote:  

(03-22-2019 11:30 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  

All I think that needs to be said about programming is in these links:

https://mavericktraveler.com/silicon-valley/
https://mavericktraveler.com/6-reasons-w...ogrammers/
https://mavericktraveler.com/why-i-left-...oked-back/

Those are my reasons that I never intend to become a programmer. If i really had to do programming I would become a web developer and offer and charge my services to private clients while living abroad and geo-arbitraging my income with western money in a non-western country.

Basically this:

https://www.brettdev.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoZ_b54lGfI

The problem is most of his criticisms apply to every job, the only exception is marketing. Whilst I don't disagree with marketing being of supreme importance (though I may be biased because it was my only focus for years) he completely ignores how powerful programming is combined with marketing. It's not an either-or situation.

I've become very tech-oriented the past few years and because of my marketing background I can see many opportunities for products, but I was never able to execute on them because I lacked programming skills. I've hired programmers to get apps developed but they take ages to develop, it's expensive and without programming skills you can't tell if it's shitcode or not. You need the skills yourself or be lucky enough to land a dedicated technical co-founder in order to prototype rapidly and test the market viability of your ideas.

He also makes entrepreneurship sound way easier than it actually is - it's years of trying and failing throwing stuff at the wall to see what works. Even when you find something that works, your business model might be unsuited for the long-term or for scaling. I see he recommends affiliate marketing and dropshipping, both product types mean you give up control and it's all too common changes happen on the product creator side which end your business.

So take his advice with a pinch of salt and if you are entrepreneurship-inclined then I advise you to think deeply on the type of business you want to create. For me it became obvious that I'm strongly inclined towards software so gaining those skills just made sense, but if you haven't tried out a number of different business models then maybe you would benefit from testing other methods first. But still, don't be put off from combining the two skills by his posts as he's not making a fair comparison.

Sure., there's some merit to your opinion. I still find his criticism reliable since he writes from his personal experience as a programmer.

Not to mention that you didn't even take a look at the 2nd guy who works as a Web Developer, anyway.

Frankly, I'm absolutely more inclined towards entrepreneurship and affiliate marketing.

I just think that these are all worthwhile perspectives to consider before permanently committing oneself to programming. I know i definitely won't commit myself to any form of programming or coding.

[croquet]

(03-22-2019 11:30 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  

All I think that needs to be said about programming is in these links:

https://mavericktraveler.com/silicon-valley/
https://mavericktraveler.com/6-reasons-w...ogrammers/
https://mavericktraveler.com/why-i-left-...oked-back/

Those are my reasons that I never intend to become a programmer. If i really had to do programming I would become a web developer and offer and charge my services to private clients while living abroad and geo-arbitraging my income with western money in a non-western country.

Basically this:

https://www.brettdev.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoZ_b54lGfI

Yeah ok LOL. You are listening to one guy who hated his time in the Valley but made more than enough cash to then go digital nomad.

Newsflash, Maverick has shit to sell you.

Brettdev? Wordpress? Even more LOLZ. Good luck competing with Indians on the online job sites for $5/hour.

Here's more news for you. Setting up wordpress blogs isn't web dev.

[KnjazMihailo]

(03-23-2019 05:35 AM)croquet Wrote:  

(03-22-2019 11:30 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  

All I think that needs to be said about programming is in these links:

https://mavericktraveler.com/silicon-valley/
https://mavericktraveler.com/6-reasons-w...ogrammers/
https://mavericktraveler.com/why-i-left-...oked-back/

Those are my reasons that I never intend to become a programmer. If i really had to do programming I would become a web developer and offer and charge my services to private clients while living abroad and geo-arbitraging my income with western money in a non-western country.

Basically this:

https://www.brettdev.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoZ_b54lGfI

Yeah ok LOL. You are listening to one guy who hated his time in the Valley but made more than enough cash to then go digital nomad.

Newsflash, Maverick has shit to sell you.

Brettdev? Wordpress? Even more LOLZ. Good luck competing with Indians on the online job sites for $5/hour.

Here's more news for you. Setting up wordpress blogs isn't web dev.

Honestly who doesn't have something to sell you in this world?

Good for him. The whole point is that programming can pay decent although not when you're competing with millions of Indians and other cheap laborers, but its mind numbing and monotonous work. Some people are cut out for it. Others are. I know i'm not.

Setting up WordPress blogs may not be web dev (It still is, as having a WordPress blog requires paying for WEBHOSTING), but it still earns good money since there's high demand for it. I know this as I am a client that wants and needs a WordPress blog setup for me. I am paying Irenicus to develop a landing page for a website for me. He can prove this for me since you're talking to me like i know nothing.

So cool bro. I literally said I'm not even going to work as a programmer. The LOLZ are on you.

You're literally not even worth taking seriously. Honestly, upon commenting in this thread I've stated these two guys who've made content and actually have worked in any form as programmers. Also I've stated I'm a client of Irenicus who's doing website design layout programming for me. In a different thread i've even mentioned that my Dad is a control systems engineer who's job involves programming.

Why should I even take your comment seriously at all?

You've literally done nothing but spout a bunch of cocky trash talk with absolutely no proof, logic, explanations or reasons of any kind at all. The onus is on you to prove why your comment is worth more than a piece of shit.

I have better things to do than deal with proud fools like you.

[croquet]

(03-23-2019 09:16 AM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  

Honestly who doesn't have something to sell you in this world?

Good for him. The whole point is that programming can pay decent although not when you're competing with millions of Indians and other cheap laborers, but its mind numbing and monotonous work. Some people are cut out for it. Others are. I know i'm not.

Coding might be mind numbing but it certainly isn't monotonous. The Indians quoting $5/hour are because they are shit. Good devs, Indians or otherwise get paid multiples of that, think >$50/hour.

You are not cut out for it, ok so why are you on this thread?

Setting up WordPress blogs may not be web dev (It still is, as having a WordPress blog requires paying for WEBHOSTING), but it still earns good money since there's high demand for it. I know this as I am a client that wants and needs a WordPress blog setup for me. I am paying Irenicus to develop a landing page for a website for me. He can prove this for me since you're talking to me like i know nothing.

Web dev does not equal web hosting. If you had the IQ capacity to google you would have found out web hosting is shit simple. You just need to buy a domain and hosting and point your domain to your hosting. Enjoy making your $50 per client.

You indeed do know nothing. That you are absolutely right about.

So cool bro. I literally said I'm not even going to work as a programmer. The LOLZ are on you.

Again, why are you in this thread? Insecure ego?

You're literally not even worth taking seriously. Honestly, upon commenting in this thread I've stated these two guys who've made content and actually have worked in any form as programmers. Also I've stated I'm a client of Irenicus who's doing website design layout programming for me. In a different thread i've even mentioned that my Dad is a control systems engineer who's job involves programming.

Oooohhh your dad! Maybe he should teach you some skills instead of you paying someone to do something a 15 year old using Wix.com could do. No disrespect to Irenicus for the page design.

Why should I even take your comment seriously at all?

You've literally done nothing but spout a bunch of cocky trash talk with absolutely no proof, logic, explanations or reasons of any kind at all. The onus is on you to prove why your comment is worth more than a piece of shit.

I have better things to do than deal with proud fools like you.

So why did you respond to me? Got your panties in a bunch?

I've bold highlighted all the parts that are you melting down. With my responses in italics and underlined, just in case you need to pay someone to read it to you.

Do you need some quiet time and warm milk now?

[KnjazMihailo]

(03-23-2019 10:41 AM)croquet Wrote:  

(03-23-2019 09:16 AM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  

Honestly who doesn't have something to sell you in this world?

Good for him. The whole point is that programming can pay decent although not when you're competing with millions of Indians and other cheap laborers, but its mind numbing and monotonous work. Some people are cut out for it. Others are. I know i'm not.

Coding might be mind numbing but it certainly isn't monotonous. The Indians quoting $5/hour are because they are shit. Good devs, Indians or otherwise get paid multiples of that, think >$50/hour.

You are not cut out for it, ok so why are you on this thread?

Setting up WordPress blogs may not be web dev (It still is, as having a WordPress blog requires paying for WEBHOSTING), but it still earns good money since there's high demand for it. I know this as I am a client that wants and needs a WordPress blog setup for me. I am paying Irenicus to develop a landing page for a website for me. He can prove this for me since you're talking to me like i know nothing.

Web dev does not equal web hosting. If you had the IQ capacity to google you would have found out web hosting is shit simple. You just need to buy a domain and hosting and point your domain to your hosting. Enjoy making your $50 per client.

You indeed do know nothing. That you are absolutely right about.

So cool bro. I literally said I'm not even going to work as a programmer. The LOLZ are on you.

Again, why are you in this thread? Insecure ego?

You're literally not even worth taking seriously. Honestly, upon commenting in this thread I've stated these two guys who've made content and actually have worked in any form as programmers. Also I've stated I'm a client of Irenicus who's doing website design layout programming for me. In a different thread i've even mentioned that my Dad is a control systems engineer who's job involves programming.

Oooohhh your dad! Maybe he should teach you some skills instead of you paying someone to do something a 15 year old using Wix.com could do. No disrespect to Irenicus for the page design.

Why should I even take your comment seriously at all?

You've literally done nothing but spout a bunch of cocky trash talk with absolutely no proof, logic, explanations or reasons of any kind at all. The onus is on you to prove why your comment is worth more than a piece of shit.

I have better things to do than deal with proud fools like you.

So why did you respond to me? Got your panties in a bunch?

I've bold highlighted all the parts that are you melting down. With my responses in italics and underlined, just in case you need to pay someone to read it to you.

Do you need some quiet time and warm milk now?

I've done my best to make the most useful contributions I possibly could to this thread given what I know and my experiences. Some time ago in my life, i was seriously becoming a programmer.

What have you done? Talk a bunch of hot shit.

Again, you haven't proven why you're even worth taking seriously at all.

[croquet]

(03-23-2019 07:39 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  

I've done my best to make the most useful contributions I possibly could to this thread given what I know and my experiences. Some time ago in my life, i was seriously becoming a programmer.

What have you done? Talk a bunch of hot shit.

Again, you haven't proven why you're even worth taking seriously at all.

Put simply, your contributions have been shit. Read the thread title again.

How has anything you have wrote on this thread helps someone to become a software dev? It hasn't.

You have never been a dev, nor took steps towards it. Did you really think you sharing a worthless opinion would get you mass respect?

[The Grey]

Please find something better to do than destroying a good thread @KnjazMihailo @croquet.

[KnjazMihailo]

(03-24-2019 01:26 AM)croquet Wrote:  

(03-23-2019 07:39 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  

I've done my best to make the most useful contributions I possibly could to this thread given what I know and my experiences. Some time ago in my life, i was seriously becoming a programmer.

What have you done? Talk a bunch of hot shit.

Again, you haven't proven why you're even worth taking seriously at all.

Put simply, your contributions have been shit. Read the thread title again.

How has anything you have wrote on this thread helps someone to become a software dev? It hasn't.

You have never been a dev, nor took steps towards it. Did you really think you sharing a worthless opinion would get you mass respect?

You're still trying to impose your frame on me by spewing random shit without even explaining why you're worth taking seriously and why anything you've said is worth taking seriously.

Pathetic.

[croquet]

(03-24-2019 02:29 AM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  

You're still trying to impose your frame on me by spewing random shit without even explaining why you're worth taking seriously and why anything you've said is worth taking seriously.

Pathetic.

Impose my frame? LOLZ. You're not gaming a girl here kid. If you love Roosh and "game" so much I suggest you buy a pair of kneepads.

Apparently you can't/don't read either. Or just in denial of your ass raping.

I have to prove my worth? You are completely insecure and you continue to prove my point exactly by continuing to respond to me.

Pathetic does describe you. That much you are right on.

[Atom89]

How do web dev companies make a lot of money? There's a dozen web dev companies in my city centre and they literally earn tons of money.

They surely cannot earn more than $£600 a month with 5 clients a month.

I wonder if it's all maintenance work that keeps them afloat? And they also have to pay their employees well.

[flanders]

(03-23-2019 05:27 AM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  

(03-23-2019 03:17 AM)Valentine Wrote:  

(03-22-2019 11:30 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  

All I think that needs to be said about programming is in these links:

https://mavericktraveler.com/silicon-valley/
https://mavericktraveler.com/6-reasons-w...ogrammers/
https://mavericktraveler.com/why-i-left-...oked-back/

Those are my reasons that I never intend to become a programmer. If i really had to do programming I would become a web developer and offer and charge my services to private clients while living abroad and geo-arbitraging my income with western money in a non-western country.

Basically this:

https://www.brettdev.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoZ_b54lGfI

The problem is most of his criticisms apply to every job, the only exception is marketing. Whilst I don't disagree with marketing being of supreme importance (though I may be biased because it was my only focus for years) he completely ignores how powerful programming is combined with marketing. It's not an either-or situation.

I've become very tech-oriented the past few years and because of my marketing background I can see many opportunities for products, but I was never able to execute on them because I lacked programming skills. I've hired programmers to get apps developed but they take ages to develop, it's expensive and without programming skills you can't tell if it's shitcode or not. You need the skills yourself or be lucky enough to land a dedicated technical co-founder in order to prototype rapidly and test the market viability of your ideas.

He also makes entrepreneurship sound way easier than it actually is - it's years of trying and failing throwing stuff at the wall to see what works. Even when you find something that works, your business model might be unsuited for the long-term or for scaling. I see he recommends affiliate marketing and dropshipping, both product types mean you give up control and it's all too common changes happen on the product creator side which end your business.

So take his advice with a pinch of salt and if you are entrepreneurship-inclined then I advise you to think deeply on the type of business you want to create. For me it became obvious that I'm strongly inclined towards software so gaining those skills just made sense, but if you haven't tried out a number of different business models then maybe you would benefit from testing other methods first. But still, don't be put off from combining the two skills by his posts as he's not making a fair comparison.

Sure., there's some merit to your opinion. I still find his criticism reliable since he writes from his personal experience as a programmer.

Not to mention that you didn't even take a look at the 2nd guy who works as a Web Developer, anyway.

Frankly, I'm absolutely more inclined towards entrepreneurship and affiliate marketing.

I just think that these are all worthwhile perspectives to consider before permanently committing oneself to programming. I know i definitely won't commit myself to any form of programming or coding.

So you find some links where some guy has some moderately bad things to say about how programming affected him negatively and with no background in programming yourself assume it's true? There were options for that guy if he didn't want to stay in his particular job. With a software background, you can get into the sales side and deal with humans more than code.

re: your post - Literally everybody on the internet is an affiliate marketer or online marketer. There's 500k+ members of 'affiliate marketers' on some online forums **(where the guys running the forum and collecting monthly dues are making the real money). Not to mention that at any given time, several million bored housewives are googling "how to make money on the internet" and what do you think keeps popping up?

If you want to compete with those guys but think programming is a waste of your time or beneath you then I have bad news.

Some of us actually want to earn a dollar from our sweat equity, and even in fields where your employment situation is 'precarious' (programmers are routinely hired and fired) the sheer demand means you'll never really be out of a job.

I wrote "python" on my linkedin and have been getting hit up by robo-recruiters for no reason and I'm not even very good at programming. I write them back and inside of a week a human being writes me back with specific questions.

Affiliate marketing has even more competition and and an even lower barrier to entry than programming and arguably provides less value. At least programmers are creating some kind of product. You still need sweat equity to break into programming, and the employers who hire programmers are (at the very least) not just handing out jobs to any asshole.

[tugofpeace]

There is so much opportunity with a programming background. Dude above posting links trashing the field is naive.

Programming can lead to sales, startups, managment consulting, technical consulting, IT, product management, bleeding edge tech jobs, jobs in healthcare, armed forces, pharma, pretty much any scientific field out there, etc..

Its just a foundation. But that foundation opens up the door to pretty much anything. Its why I’m learning despite making $100k as an EE. The opportunities are endless..

[Captain Gh]

Instead of starting a new thread, I decided to simply add this to this thread. Never ever buy an UdeMy course on a Saturday evening! Never! They Jack the prices up to $200, instead of the regular $24.99(used to be $12.99... so let that sink in to figure out where the economy is going!) Granted very good course on UdeMy should be that price... but with the Uberfication of our economy... it's either you don't make money at all... or you take your cut from the $12.99 that WE decide to sell it for... take it or leave it! Since I'm pretty sure the content creators are not seeing a dime from that $200, I'm passing up! I would honestly buy a course from Colt Steele or Jonas Schmedtmann at that price! Both these mofos are just so Good!