[Gopnik]

@Frenchcorporation Thanks for the input! By the way, I remember reading your post about a friend of yours that got into programming more or less at the same time when you did:

(04-17-2016 07:47 AM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

I have a friend who i convinced to start programming, he quit is university degree halfway through, did some random bartending jobs for a while, now he's a full time programmer. Companies are desperate for junior developers, just get a portfolio of code together, and a company will give you a chance soon enough.

Is he also doing as well as you? This entire thread is very encouraging.

[Blaster]

(06-19-2018 05:15 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

^Great post.

Re: social skills -- I've never seen anyone lose social skills from deep introverted work. Unless you do it 24/7 and dont interact with humans for years. If you maintain even some semblance of a social life you will not somehow forget how to talk, laugh, joke around, flirt, etc.

What's definitely common is introverts with undeveloped social skills going into programming/STEM. In that case, it's hard to improve socially when your work is deep logical focus without interaction.

But the task itself doesn't destroy social skills lol.

For what it's worth, I definitely observed in myself a notable decline in social skills of all sorts after spending long periods of time doing technical work without any interaction with other people. It wasn't a permanent decline or anything. After 8 hours I might be more awkward than usual for 15-20 minutes, etc. But that's just what I actually observed in myself at the time (when I was in my early 20s)

[godzilla]

(04-04-2018 11:53 AM)Gopnik Wrote:  

Slightly off topic, but thought I'd share an old video and article from Maverick Traveler about his experiences in programming.

https://mavericktraveler.com/6-reasons-w...ogrammers/

He basically argues that programming fucks your social skills, forces you to compete against cheap labour from india and after only a few years most programmers move to a managerial role (it's meant to be a promotion I think, but he seems to mean this in a negative way which seems a bit contradictive).

I've actually come accross similar testimonies from different guys and while they make good points, I've noticed they all tend to have a few things in common.

It seems it's usually what Maverick calls the "natural" developers that end up getting burned out and eventually despise programming. The hardcore nerds that are completely dedicated to their craft for many years to the point of exhaustion.

While I understand you won't ncessarily get rich by programming, salaries in developed countries are still pretty decent and you also have the possibility of working remotely down the line, freelancing or using your coding skills to build your own web app. I understand there's some downsides to it, just like in any industry. People get burned out in finance, tech, law... you name it. I'd be happy to hear from other members' experiences on this.

Programming definitely gets you in a comfortable state where you feel you don't need to talk. As you know in Anglo countries, when you go on a date, it might be hard at first to yap for a few hours if you don't warm up a bit. I doubt you lose it entirely though.

[ts58]

I cosign everything frenchcorp said and FullThrottleTX is pretty spot on.

Couple of trends that are not obvious to people not in tech: containerization(Docker)
Onshoring. No India is not coming for you, India is coming here(H1B)
Javascript. Learn a server side language too(PHP, Python, Java) that interacts with a database, then learn how the JS version does it.
Frameworks. Almost nobody except niches code in pure PHP/JS/what have you. Build stuff in frameworks.
Blockchain. I get headhunted on the regular for Solidity experience.

Get 1-2 years experience and the world opens right up.

[ElSanto]

This thread motivated me to start learning webdev so i just bought a few udemy courses following a solid roadmap. I will be posting my progress on here.

[Atom89]

I know someone who has several web development projects and is on the Udacity nano degree full stack web dev course only one project in. He has managed to get himself a junior web developer interview (without a degree and no experience).

Once again, If you're struggling for projects, you can learn and use projects from various languages from:

1) Treehouse
2) Udemy
3) Lynda
4) Pluralsight
5) Udacity
6) Code Acadmy
7) Zenva
8) Free code camp

[Atom89]

I seen this great resource regarding PHP, web development etc, take a look it's great:

https://github.com/odan/learn-php

[frenchcorporation]

(06-23-2018 02:17 PM)Gopnik Wrote:  

@Frenchcorporation Thanks for the input! By the way, I remember reading your post about a friend of yours that got into programming more or less at the same time when you did:

(04-17-2016 07:47 AM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

I have a friend who i convinced to start programming, he quit is university degree halfway through, did some random bartending jobs for a while, now he's a full time programmer. Companies are desperate for junior developers, just get a portfolio of code together, and a company will give you a chance soon enough.

Is he also doing as well as you? This entire thread is very encouraging.

He's not doing well as me, but he's doing well, has a solid career & is never out of work

[flanders]

Not sure I've read the whole thread, but if you had to update the original post for 2018, what would you change?

[frenchcorporation]

(07-09-2018 03:18 PM)flanders Wrote:  

Not sure I've read the whole thread, but if you had to update the original post for 2018, what would you change?

Id probably add a little more emphasis on front-end js stuff (i.e lern react), as front-end js frameworks seems to be less of a constantly-shifting mess, but all the info in the original

and some of the links in the OP dont point to where they used to, but the steps are extrapolatable to any mainstream programming language & framework

[alphanomega]

(07-09-2018 04:10 PM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

(07-09-2018 03:18 PM)flanders Wrote:  

Not sure I've read the whole thread, but if you had to update the original post for 2018, what would you change?

Id probably add a little more emphasis on front-end js stuff (i.e lern react), as front-end js frameworks seems to be less of a constantly-shifting mess, but all the info in the original

and some of the links in the OP dont point to where they used to, but the steps are extrapolatable to any mainstream programming language & framework

You have studied Python, but it was few years ago, do you think it is still the best option to become a junior developer? I work in software testing, but want to become a developer, would you still suggest python or js, ruby on rails or something else for today's market?

[frenchcorporation]

(07-10-2018 08:59 AM)alphanomega Wrote:  

You have studied Python, but it was few years ago, do you think it is still the best option to become a junior developer? I work in software testing, but want to become a developer, would you still suggest python or js, ruby on rails or something else for today's market?

js is a good shout, as you can write js on the frontend (react-js, angular, vue-js) & backend, and for mobile (react native). So it'll give you the best bang for your buck, so to speak

I learnt python, as it has good stats/maths libraries that allow you to go into a more stats/maths based roles faster

[Wutang]

To assuage a bit of the Indian outsourcing fears, two of the biggest Indian consulting companies (TCS and Infosys) have been making big strives in specifically hiring US citizens due to the policies of the Trump administration.

https://www.marketplace.org/2018/06/08/t...-heres-why

Quote:

Well, that's a big part of it. Just last year, Infosys announced that it's going to hire 10,000 U.S. workers in four American states. And it's for a couple of reasons. Partly, it's clearly in response to Trump's moves when it comes to restricting visas, his general hostility to immigration. But it's also because their clients want different things. Now they're looking for more of an intimate relationship with Infosys, and so they often want people who are based where the company is.

[inostranec]

@frenchcorporation Do you still have plans for getting into finance? How do you see the future there? Or maybe AI, ML stuff. I tried python lately and I immediately fell in love with that. I am a web developer but I like math as well. I am curious about your plans for the near future.
Thanks for the awesome goldmine of a thread.

[Architekt]

To any of you guys that have gotten junior dev positions:

What does your Github look like, and how much of a role did it play in getting you your job vs your resume?

I've been pushing a few WIP* projects to mine over the last couple weeks, so as to have some resume/portfolio pieces, but there's definitely some code in there that I probably wouldn't classify as being as 100% tidy as they could possibly be - some of the projects are hovering somewhere between the "proof of concept" and "half implemented" stage, and some are at the "I hacked this together and everything works and now it needs refining/more features" stage

Just wondering whether the minimal/hacky state of some of them will hurt me, or whether just having these projects there will be beneficial

My resume doesn't really include any software related experience, so I'm probably going to have to rely on my Github for potential dev-related employment

They show I can use Google and read documentation at least, I guess


*(These are mostly technically challenging projects involving low level/OpenGL/3D maths/assembly/etc type stuff)

[No Habit]

Quote:

What does your Github look like, and how much of a role did it play in getting you your job vs your resume?

I have a lot of small projects and some more complex projects in my Github account, some of them hacky, not finished or not refactored at all. Anyhow, my interviewers were mostly excited about all the coding I've done in my spare time. I actually got an advice in one of my first interviews to put some of my projects on to my resume. I chose what I thought were my best projects and put a short summary of them on paper.

Quote:

Just wondering whether the minimal/hacky state of some of them will hurt me, or whether just having these projects there will be beneficial.

Again, I think it will benefit you to have those projects, because it shows that you enjoy programming and that you're comfortable learning, researching and coding on your own.

[TheFinalEpic]

I've hired CS grads direct out of school and given them a trial period to see what they can do. It's a deep shame that most need 4 years experience to get a job out of university, when the world is moving so fast and the tech they learn today will likely be obscure in that time frame.

Any opinions on Go Lang? We are likely adding it to our stack.

[godzilla]

(08-13-2018 07:12 AM)Architekt Wrote:  

To any of you guys that have gotten junior dev positions:

What does your Github look like, and how much of a role did it play in getting you your job vs your resume?

I've been pushing a few WIP* projects to mine over the last couple weeks, so as to have some resume/portfolio pieces, but there's definitely some code in there that I probably wouldn't classify as being as 100% tidy as they could possibly be - some of the projects are hovering somewhere between the "proof of concept" and "half implemented" stage, and some are at the "I hacked this together and everything works and now it needs refining/more features" stage

Just wondering whether the minimal/hacky state of some of them will hurt me, or whether just having these projects there will be beneficial

My resume doesn't really include any software related experience, so I'm probably going to have to rely on my Github for potential dev-related employment

They show I can use Google and read documentation at least, I guess


*(These are mostly technically challenging projects involving low level/OpenGL/3D maths/assembly/etc type stuff)

My Github had a few small projects I did. Nothing crazy really. Two were simple games. One was a small travel website that never got hits and took me a month to build. A small four-page website and some Svgs I drew.

I also took an unpaid internship for 3 months which I believe really helped me actually get a job.

It took about a year (which was pretty long compared to my class, but I was looking in a different city than them) after a boot camp to find it and ended up finding work as a developer in an industry that I had previous experience in, which I think was the main factor.

Trump's economic policies are probably helping a bit as well.

It's honestly hard to come up with small projects to do that haven't been done a million times before, so I feel your pain up there. I think its fine to leave have finished shit up there but I wouldn't pin them in front maybe.

[frenchcorporation]

(08-11-2018 10:35 AM)inostranec Wrote:  

@frenchcorporation Do you still have plans for getting into finance? How do you see the future there? Or maybe AI, ML stuff. I tried python lately and I immediately fell in love with that. I am a web developer but I like math as well. I am curious about your plans for the near future.
Thanks for the awesome goldmine of a thread.

I'm not as focused on getting into finance, I was initally geared towards that, as i believed that was the best place to make money, but now im not so sure. I've been doing crypto work for a while, and I've decided to stay in this area, I think theres a lot of room for growth in this industry

[forgottenowl]

dumb 18 year old here, any opinions on what's the best language to learn to start doing contract work ASAP?

Main goal is to travel so I don't want to be a full time programmer working 50 weeks a year with 2 weeks off. I think working contracts and travelling in between is preferable to travelling while freelancing or working remotely.

Any recommendations?

[xoho]

I'm at the stage where I have my fundamentals down with the MERN stack, but I need practice before I would feel comfortable pitching my developer services. Has anyone here contributed to OSS projects on GitHub as a way of building their skills / portfolio?

[flanders]

(10-30-2018 08:50 PM)forgottenowl Wrote:  

dumb 18 year old here, any opinions on what's the best language to learn to start doing contract work ASAP?

Main goal is to travel so I don't want to be a full time programmer working 50 weeks a year with 2 weeks off. I think working contracts and travelling in between is preferable to travelling while freelancing or working remotely.

Any recommendations?

Google is your friend here. I see contract work all the time available on internet jobs sites (indeed, monster, craigslist is pretty good). They'll say something like "10-15k for 10 weeks of work, potential offer to direct hire" or something similar. So you'll need to find a way to get this. You can always sign up for email notifications on all these sites.

Just look at their 'preferred candidate' and try to make a resume that's what they ask for and no more. If they say five years of experience and you have eight, you might as well just list five, since hiring managers aren't too bright.

Add a link to a portfolio of code work. For software developers, a portfolio of code work is (as far as I can see) a website that has good projects you've done that are updated on a somewhat regular basis, along with clients who have testimonials if possible. Again, google.

I haven't gone for contract work personally and am working on a code portfolio (slowly), but from reading various reddit posts this is what most people who approach a career unconventionally end up doing.

[WannaBang]

I've had a lot of fun reading this entire thread and now I have a pretty decent idea about what resources a complete newbie can visit to gain some programming skills.

I still feel a strong mental block though as in wondering if I am smart enough or cut out enough to do programming bearing in mind I have never done any computer science related work before and have just turned 30.

I don't know how many of you work a job you are trying to replace or escape from and if your idea is to get into programming as a means to be location independent as well as stay in the employment prospects game for the long haul. I am guessing a lot.

I'm thinking about learning and getting shit hot at a couple of high bang for buck programming languages so I will eventually be able to make 25k post tax/year, being location independent and working <30 hours a week. Do you think this is doable if one invests 6-12 months learning for example python and javascript?

My understanding from reading this thread is you learn your chosen languages, how ever long that takes, do a few projects for your programming C.V. and then work freelance for a 'day rate' once you are competent enough with a track record of solving various problems for a variety of projects.

I don't intend to make this my primary job - rather in combination with one or a couple of other completely unrelated jobs (working offshore at sea being one of them which I do foresee becoming far less of a prospect in upcoming years) in order to maximise long term security. So its not like I am aiming to make a fortune from programming alone. Yet it looks like you still need to be very competent at at least a couple of mainstream, heavily utilised programming languages to have any kind of success.

[tugofpeace]

I've been contemplating getting into tech for years now.

I'm an electrical engineer (power focus) that works in the oil/gas industry. Have 7 years of oil/gas experience. I manage a consulting division (basically I handle all the proposals, reports, communication with my many clients, QA/QC, technical work, invoicing/budgets/schedule, etc).

I'm wanting to spend 6-8 months heavily programming and learning core CS concepts and building up a github and then applying to software engineering roles. Is that possible without experience? Or is junior developer my only option?

I work in a major city and make $96k all in, working 20-30 hrs/week.. hoping to at least hit $85k with a new gig.

[EEnomad]

Some thoughts on the above ^: Commit or don't. No I work 2 jobs stuff. This won't work in tech. For the newbies it's not how do I get proficient on a language, it's how do I problem solve?

Reality is, most do 3-5 years locally, then convince their team/company to let them work remote. Those right out of the gate working remotely via Elance, Upwork etc have to compete for scraps and work their way up. You are a small business owner at that point and I guarantee you working >40 hrs at that point related to your "gig".

Most career switches will start at the bottom, your past experience will be considered for soft skills, but unless you killed it contributing to heavily publicized open source projects(and so Google is calling), you will start at the bottom.