[thegmanifesto]

(06-30-2013 04:51 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

Ah, its just I read an article discussing her relationship with Kanye West, and it was going on about how he's a black American going out with a "white reality star", and how much stick he gets for it.

Before you say it, I know I shouldn't really be basing my findings on such a puerile article!

Edit: It was actually a review for KW's album: http://www.rapreviews.com/archive/2013_06F_yeezus.html

Quote:

You're talking about a walking, talking drama magnet with an id-entity crisis who is married to a white reality TV star - in North America, people flip the fuck out at interracial Cheerio's commercials, for goodness sake, can you imagine the shit he has to deal with?

It is actually a somewhat interesting topic of discussion.

I wonder if black people would consider her "white"?

I know white America would not consider her white at all.

[speakeasy]

(06-30-2013 05:00 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

It is actually a somewhat interesting topic of discussion.

I wonder if black people would consider her "white"?

They don't. I think she's seen the same way Jessica Alba or Rasheeda Jones would be seen. As someone who looks kinda sorta white but isn't.

I was at the Laugh Factory awhile back and a black comedian was joking about the issue of black men dating white women. He said, "Sistas, white women ain't the enemy for stealing your men anymore, black women have a new enemy, they're called The Kardashians."

Bet you anything Michael Jordan's new Cuban wife is considered non-white too, even though she's probably 100% Spaniard decent.



ps - Goddamned what an ugly outfit.

[Teedub]

It's really interesting, but really bizarre to everyone outside of America. For example, my Mum and her partner (sort of Step Dad, but I was 18 when they met, so not really) are both top academics and are going to Chile in October for six weeks for some research thing. Tell me about it, it's a fucking easy life.

Anyway, they had drinks a few weeks ago with colleagues from Mexico, and the FIRST thing I asked was whether they were white (because of this forum!) and my Mum said "Yeah, of course they were". Basically, my point is, is that middle class Europeans consider middle class Latin Americans who ARE white, to BE white, and not some other made-up ethnic group, if that makes sense.

Edit: That sounds incredibly prejudiced actually, against Mestizos. There is some background, as I have had discussions with her regarding the Latino/Mexican/Hispanic issue in the past, so she knew where I was coming from.

[Teedub]

(06-30-2013 05:08 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Bet you anything Michael Jordan's new Cuban wife is considered non-white too, even though she's probably 100% Spaniard decent.

Question, talking about Cubans, is the Tony Montana character considered white, considering he's played by Pacino...who I think is white, right??

[speakeasy]

(06-30-2013 05:18 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 05:08 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Bet you anything Michael Jordan's new Cuban wife is considered non-white too, even though she's probably 100% Spaniard decent.

Question, talking about Cubans, is the Tony Montana character considered white, considering he's played by Pacino...who I think is white, right??

Hell no that character wouldn't be seen as white. For white Americans, it's a cultural thing as much as it is racial. Americans are really caught up on blonde hair and blue eyes being the pinnacle of perfection. They are all into that Nordic stuff, going back to Barbies, Baywatch, obsession with buxom blondes, Playboy, Marilyn Monroe, Kate Upton, etc. Swarthy whites with funny accents aren't part of the white "in group". Hell, at one time Italians and Irish weren't even accepted as fellow whites in America. That's how neurotic race is in America. Irish in NYC were treated nearly as bad as blacks.

[Teedub]

Oh no, I understand all that, but I at least think Al Pacino is considered to be white, so doesn't it mess with their heads a little?

[Basil Ransom]

(06-30-2013 04:24 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Zinedine Zidane is a good example of a white Arab.

Zidane is a Berber, not an Arab.





I bought an old atlas a while back that had a section devoted to the different races of the world, their features, and their personalities. You used to have popular discussions of the great variety of peoples throughout the world. But now that's considered racist and baseless. Here's an example: http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/...Plates.htm

The old science is probably shaky, but they didn't have the tools that we do, what with genetics and genome sequencing.

Jason Mantzoukas, a super funny comedian, looks 200% Persian:



But according to Wikipedia, he's Greek. There's a lot of diversity in the Mediterranean countries, like Italy, Spain and Greece, partly because of North African and Arab admixture.

[thegmanifesto]

(06-30-2013 05:21 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 05:18 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 05:08 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Bet you anything Michael Jordan's new Cuban wife is considered non-white too, even though she's probably 100% Spaniard decent.

Question, talking about Cubans, is the Tony Montana character considered white, considering he's played by Pacino...who I think is white, right??

Hell no that character wouldn't be seen as white. For white Americans, it's a cultural thing as much as it is racial. Americans are really caught up on blonde hair and blue eyes being the pinnacle of perfection. They are all into that Nordic stuff, going back to Barbies, Baywatch, obsession with buxom blondes, Playboy, Marilyn Monroe, Kate Upton, etc. Swarthy whites with funny accents aren't part of the white "in group". Hell, at one time Italians and Irish weren't even accepted as fellow whites in America. That's how neurotic race is in America. Irish in NYC were treated nearly as bad as blacks.

Yeah, Cubans aren't considered "white" at all.

My main girl is Cuban from Miami Beach, whiter than me, and she says when she leaves Miami, she is not really considered "white".

I can guarantee you that if a white Cuban girl from Miami Beach goes to Newport Beach, there is no way in hell she is considered "white".

Speak pretty much nailed it.

If you are brunette and have a Latin name (or hell, even if you speak fluent Spanish, or hell, if you know how to cook Arroz con Pollo even), you are not "white" by White America.

[Screwston]

The forum should talk about race a little more. It never really gets brought up around here.

[speakeasy]

From Basil's link, this is what's listed under Russian women:



Is this a biased sample or is this fairly representative of Russia at the street level? If the latter, FML...

[Teedub]

(06-30-2013 05:25 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

If you are brunette and have a Latin name (or hell, even if you speak fluent Spanish), you are not "white" by White America.

That may be true, but from what I see on this forum and on boxing forums that I lurk...A lot of the ignorance is also perpetuated by black Americans and also the Latin Americans themselves, confused as to what they 'are' if you know what I mean. I.E "I'm not white, I'm Puerto Rican" etc.

To be honest, I think some of it (as evidenced in the Jessica Alba on George Lopez clip) is that 'white' is seen as uncool and status-quo, so they want no part of it, hence Alba's reaction and the SWPL crowd's response in hearing the ungodly news that she is a white person.

The best one was Mariah Carey asking George Lopez where the 'Latino' section was on the DNA test. I'd laugh if it wasn't such a tragic display of utter stupidity.

[Teedub]

(06-30-2013 05:26 PM)houston Wrote:  

The forum should talk about race a little more. It never really gets brought up around here.

We're talking about Latino's and the fact it ISN'T a race.

[Basil Ransom]

(06-30-2013 05:32 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 05:25 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

If you are brunette and have a Latin name (or hell, even if you speak fluent Spanish), you are not "white" by White America.

That may be true, but from what I see on this forum and on boxing forums that I lurk...A lot of the ignorance is also perpetuated by black Americans and also the Latin Americans themselves, confused as to what they 'are' if you know what I mean. I.E "I'm not white, I'm Puerto Rican" etc.

To be honest, I think some of it (as evidenced in the Jessica Alba on George Lopez clip) is that 'white' is seen as uncool and status-quo, so they want no part of it, hence Alba's reaction and the SWPL crowd's response in hearing the ungodly news that she is a white person.

The best one was Mariah Carey asking George Lopez where the 'Latino' section was on the DNA test. I'd laugh if it wasn't such a tragic display of utter stupidity.

When I hear Mariah Carey blaring on about how having one drop of African blood makes you black, it doesn't really ring true. Is it a generational thing, or is she just attention whoring? Maybe in parts of the South that's the case, but not in the circles I travel in. Sure, people want to know what you are, but they're not running around saying "you're an octroon? You're as black as Manute Bol!"

As for Alba, her racial positioning may be strategic. If she goes white, she's contending with Taylor Swift and Britney Spears. She's never going to out-white Taylor Swift. But she's hotter than the Mestizo competition, so she can play the Latina card to the hilt, even though she's mostly European.

It's sort of like fat chicks looking at curvy Christine Hendricks, and thinking they look similar. You've got tons of ugly Mestizo broads looking at Alba and thinking they're the same. Nope.

Christina Hendricks


I've never been to Texas, but it seems like the Latinas there are hotter than the ones in SoCal.

[speakeasy]

(06-30-2013 05:45 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

I've never been to Texas, but it seems like the Latinas there are hotter than the ones in SoCal.

Good points overall. Texas may have better Latinas because they are are next to Nuevo Leon which has a lot of hot Mexican girls(whiter). Most the ones coming to California are from deep in the south of Mexico and more indigenous in looks.

[MidWest]

Its funny how it works. Sofia Vergara came from Colombia having naturally blonde hair and she did commercials in Colombia with her blonde hair. Once she came to America they made her dye her hair black because they have never heard of a blonde Latin girl. She talks about it on the George Lopez show of course, minute 3:10 to 5:00.

This is Sofia Vergara in Colombia:




This is her in the US:






Like one poster mentioned, if you have black hair and have a Spanish black name, you are not white in America. No wonder Hollywood got confused when a blonde Sofia Vergara showed up for auditioning.

[Basil Ransom]

(06-30-2013 06:29 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

Its funny how it works. Sofia Vergara came from Colombia having naturally blonde hair and she did commercials in Colombia with her blonde hair. Once she came to America they made her dye her hair black because they have never heard of a blonde Latin girl. She talks about it on the George Lopez show of course, minute 3:10 to 5:00.

Notice how there's almost no cheering from the audience there. Blondes are unheard of among Mexicans and their descendants in America, at least in Southern California.

(06-30-2013 06:29 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

Like one poster mentioned, if you have black hair and have a Spanish black name, you are not white in America. No wonder Hollywood got confused when a blonde Sofia Vergara showed up for auditioning.

or I can't decide.

Vergara came from a Latino country, with all the mannerisms and quirks to boot. She isn't some white bread chick with dark hair. You can find brunettes in Scandinavia. Telling someone else she's white mentally associates her with all the white people in the US, who she is very much unlike. To call her white is to fixate on merely her ancestors, and not her overall demeanor. It's easier just to say she's a Latina.

[Therapsid]

The response to Vergara just highlights how confused Americans are with regards to Latin America.

You'd think that Americans would have gotten the memo by now that Latino and Hispanic are cultural, not racial categories. The U.S. government does not even categorize them as races, nor do college applications as most people here well know.

Former Peruvian president Alberto Fujimori may well be considered Latino but he's also Japanese, just like Shakira is a Latina of Lebanese descent, and the current Pope Francis is the first Latin American pontiff, yet nevertheless of Italian ancestry.

[Timoteo]

There are really two different components that go into how you're perceived racially, at least for those that are fairer skinned with straighter hair. There are your looks, and how you were brought up culturally.

A Spanish woman I used to see out in California was a prime example of how your looks are perceived, and how it changes when other factors present themselves. She's a petite blond, with hazel/green eyes. When American women see her, they perceive her to be one of them. But the moment she speaks, they immediately react differently to her, because it becomes apparent that she ISN'T one of them. For this reason, most of her friends aren't Americans, and she largely still considers herself a Spaniard living in America, even though all three of her kids were born here.

[Hispanic_Reasoning]

(06-30-2013 05:59 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Good points overall. Texas may have better Latinas because they are are next to Nuevo Leon which has a lot of hot Mexican girls(whiter). Most the ones coming to California are from deep in the south of Mexico and more indigenous in looks.

most mexicans here in california are from central mexico......

[Hispanic_Reasoning]

(06-30-2013 09:51 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

She's a petite blond, with hazel/green eyes.....

dam, that's a fucking hot girl, especially being Iberian.

[Hispanic_Reasoning]

(06-30-2013 09:44 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  

The response to Vergara just highlights how confused Americans are with regards to Latin America.

You'd think that Americans would have gotten the memo by now that Latino and Hispanic are cultural, not racial categories.

don't you understand, americans are pompous retards who can't comprehend basic things. why else do you think roosh doesn't want to return to the US.

[Timoteo]

It does boil down to a lack of understanding of the world outside the US. To the ignorant, anyone speaking Spanish is thought to come from Mexico...hahaha! Part of it is actual ignorance, and part of it is simply not caring enough to distinguish one person from another. Not caring enough to learn about countries south of us. As a whole, most Americans don't travel much internationally, and if they do, it's cruises to the Caribbean, or resorts, where they don't see and experience much. They don't give a fuck about the difference between a Puerto Rican and a Colombian - they just know they speak Spanish.

[Hispanic_Reasoning]

(06-30-2013 10:04 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

It does boil down to a lack of understanding of the world outside the US. To the ignorant, anyone speaking Spanish is thought to come from Mexico...hahaha! Part of it is actual ignorance, and part of it is simply not caring enough to distinguish one person from another. Not caring enough to learn about countries south of us. As a whole, most Americans don't travel much internationally, and if they do, it's cruises to the Caribbean, or resorts, where they don't see and experience much. They don't give a fuck about the difference between a Puerto Rican and a Colombian - they just know they speak Spanish.

very true. too much provincial minded mentality of americans.

in a way, it's a good thing that americans don't travel much. just read speakeasy's thread of his trip to mexico and he commented he didn't see many americans in his travel. try to compare that in europe with drunk brits, desperate obnoxious italians and turks who fuck up everything they touch.

[Mekorig]

(06-30-2013 09:51 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

A Spanish woman I used to see out in California was a prime example of how your looks are perceived, and how it changes when other factors present themselves. She's a petite blond, with hazel/green eyes. When American women see her, they perceive her to be one of them. But the moment she speaks, they immediately react differently to her, because it becomes apparent that she ISN'T one of them. For this reason, most of her friends aren't Americans, and she largely still considers herself a Spaniard living in America, even though all three of her kids were born here.

I have been there. Some years ago i posted my photo on a hobby`s forum from the USA, and a lot of people could not belive i was from Argentina (the far distant Latin America for them).

[Timoteo]

(06-30-2013 10:43 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 09:51 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

A Spanish woman I used to see out in California was a prime example of how your looks are perceived, and how it changes when other factors present themselves. She's a petite blond, with hazel/green eyes. When American women see her, they perceive her to be one of them. But the moment she speaks, they immediately react differently to her, because it becomes apparent that she ISN'T one of them. For this reason, most of her friends aren't Americans, and she largely still considers herself a Spaniard living in America, even though all three of her kids were born here.

I have been there. Some years ago i posted my photo on a hobby`s forum from the USA, and a lot of people could not belive i was from Argentina (the far distant Latin America for them).

Yep, and they also wouldn't know how distinctly different Argentina is from the rest of South America, due to immigration from Europe, though Spanish is the national language. I occasionally chat with Argentinian women, and they're amazed that I'm familiar with some of the history. It's as if they don't expect an American to know that.