[Travelsick]

Kind of a shame. They would have made a cute couple. They look a bit like brother and sister in the picture though - I think that says it all.

I doubt she was repulsed by him physically, he's not unattracted per se, he's just a bit of a dweeb. His style needs a revamp.

Bottom line is there was no spark, and his game (and hers as well) - was lacking. Had he made her laugh and showed some edge he could have gone home with her.

Come on, she's thirty. She wants a husband.


As for resident physicians: it's a 60 hour week if you're effective at your job. There are a few specialities which have an easier workload and some like surgery that require more hours but a lot of those hours are spent hanging around, waiting for something to happen. I've one it both in CA and in Europe, there's no significant difference. Where I work now there's a low that caps at 60 hours for residency, I clock, when I'm over the max (mostly around 6:32 pm on a friday afternoon) I walk out. It's all on the chief or attending after that.

[Samseau]

(05-20-2013 08:59 PM)speeddemon Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 08:09 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 06:44 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 04:00 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 03:28 PM)Alpha Hunter Zero Wrote:  

What a shame. If this guy customized his wardrobe, exercised, and learned some game he could easily slay some quality poon.

And when is he supposed to do that inbetween his 6-work week shifts and 12 hour days? This dude is happy to get 8 hours of sleep per night, let alone learn game, hit the gym, and spend hours shopping.

Surgeons work 72+ hours a weeks easily. Infectious Diseases is not considered to be a demanding specialty, so I doubt he works this much.

Wrong. I actually know young doctors and talk to them. 100% of doctors in residency, regardless of the type of practice, work 80+ hours. They don't work less until they've moved up the food chain, which occur once they are in their late 30's (earliest) or 40's (more realistic). And while they are Med school, they already work sick hours and study around 6-8 hours per day. I know all of this because my old roommate was a doctor. Many doctors in med school get part-time jobs on top of school-load too. Talk about a hellish life.

They all have serious issues with burnout. But they have no choice. If they don't put in the crazy hours, they'll be replaced with the near endless stream of new doctors all chasing the paycheck.

In 2003, a law was passed that capped resident work hours to 80 hours per week averaged over 4 weeks. Basically, the max amount of hours that residency programs can make you work is 320 hours per month. Surgeons sometimes misreport their hours and work longer than that though.

The residents I know are in radiology (60 hours/week), internal medicine (55 hours/week), dermatology (50 hours/week) and ER (64 hours/week). You also have to spend around a few hours a week studying on your own, and some residents do time consuming research as well.

You are correct in saying that burnout can easily happen if you don't enjoy your field of medicine.

I know about that law because my Doctor friends have told me. Guess what? No one obeys that rule and everyone works 80 hours per week. Anyone who speaks up suddenly finds themselves not getting a job offer.

Strange how that works.

[speakeasy]

Being a doctor sounds hellish. I would never go into any career that requires 60hr work weeks. I value my sanity too much. Unless you truly have a passion deep down for medicine, I can't imagine incuring all the debt and valuable years of my youth lost to studying. I'm glad some are willing to do this as we need doctors.

[MikeCF]

(05-21-2013 12:45 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 08:59 PM)speeddemon Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 08:09 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 06:44 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 04:00 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

And when is he supposed to do that inbetween his 6-work week shifts and 12 hour days? This dude is happy to get 8 hours of sleep per night, let alone learn game, hit the gym, and spend hours shopping.

Surgeons work 72+ hours a weeks easily. Infectious Diseases is not considered to be a demanding specialty, so I doubt he works this much.

Wrong. I actually know young doctors and talk to them. 100% of doctors in residency, regardless of the type of practice, work 80+ hours. They don't work less until they've moved up the food chain, which occur once they are in their late 30's (earliest) or 40's (more realistic). And while they are Med school, they already work sick hours and study around 6-8 hours per day. I know all of this because my old roommate was a doctor. Many doctors in med school get part-time jobs on top of school-load too. Talk about a hellish life.

They all have serious issues with burnout. But they have no choice. If they don't put in the crazy hours, they'll be replaced with the near endless stream of new doctors all chasing the paycheck.

In 2003, a law was passed that capped resident work hours to 80 hours per week averaged over 4 weeks. Basically, the max amount of hours that residency programs can make you work is 320 hours per month. Surgeons sometimes misreport their hours and work longer than that though.

The residents I know are in radiology (60 hours/week), internal medicine (55 hours/week), dermatology (50 hours/week) and ER (64 hours/week). You also have to spend around a few hours a week studying on your own, and some residents do time consuming research as well.

You are correct in saying that burnout can easily happen if you don't enjoy your field of medicine.

I know about that law because my Doctor friends have told me. Guess what? No one obeys that rule and everyone works 80 hours per week. Anyone who speaks up suddenly finds themselves not getting a job offer.

Strange how that works.

Next thing you know, you're going to start telling us that truckers lie in their log books and are actually on the road for more than 10 hours a day!

It still amazes me that people go on and on about the "red pill" yet accept all of society's bullshit about everything else.

[Exactaking]

(05-21-2013 01:55 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 12:45 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 08:59 PM)speeddemon Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 08:09 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 06:44 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

Surgeons work 72+ hours a weeks easily. Infectious Diseases is not considered to be a demanding specialty, so I doubt he works this much.

Wrong. I actually know young doctors and talk to them. 100% of doctors in residency, regardless of the type of practice, work 80+ hours. They don't work less until they've moved up the food chain, which occur once they are in their late 30's (earliest) or 40's (more realistic). And while they are Med school, they already work sick hours and study around 6-8 hours per day. I know all of this because my old roommate was a doctor. Many doctors in med school get part-time jobs on top of school-load too. Talk about a hellish life.

They all have serious issues with burnout. But they have no choice. If they don't put in the crazy hours, they'll be replaced with the near endless stream of new doctors all chasing the paycheck.

In 2003, a law was passed that capped resident work hours to 80 hours per week averaged over 4 weeks. Basically, the max amount of hours that residency programs can make you work is 320 hours per month. Surgeons sometimes misreport their hours and work longer than that though.

The residents I know are in radiology (60 hours/week), internal medicine (55 hours/week), dermatology (50 hours/week) and ER (64 hours/week). You also have to spend around a few hours a week studying on your own, and some residents do time consuming research as well.

You are correct in saying that burnout can easily happen if you don't enjoy your field of medicine.

I know about that law because my Doctor friends have told me. Guess what? No one obeys that rule and everyone works 80 hours per week. Anyone who speaks up suddenly finds themselves not getting a job offer.

Strange how that works.

Next thing you know, you're going to start telling us that truckers lie in their log books and are actually on the road for more than 10 hours a day!

It still amazes me that people go on and on about the "red pill" yet accept all of society's bullshit about everything else.

Amen to that. Its like how in public accounting, instead of lowering fees, firms make up fake times to charge the client. Everyone has to work 1.5x-2x the billable time, but if they are caught are fired. I guess law is the same thing, too chicken to enter a price war.

[NYJ]

(05-21-2013 01:55 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 12:45 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 08:59 PM)speeddemon Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 08:09 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 06:44 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

Surgeons work 72+ hours a weeks easily. Infectious Diseases is not considered to be a demanding specialty, so I doubt he works this much.

Wrong. I actually know young doctors and talk to them. 100% of doctors in residency, regardless of the type of practice, work 80+ hours. They don't work less until they've moved up the food chain, which occur once they are in their late 30's (earliest) or 40's (more realistic). And while they are Med school, they already work sick hours and study around 6-8 hours per day. I know all of this because my old roommate was a doctor. Many doctors in med school get part-time jobs on top of school-load too. Talk about a hellish life.

They all have serious issues with burnout. But they have no choice. If they don't put in the crazy hours, they'll be replaced with the near endless stream of new doctors all chasing the paycheck.

In 2003, a law was passed that capped resident work hours to 80 hours per week averaged over 4 weeks. Basically, the max amount of hours that residency programs can make you work is 320 hours per month. Surgeons sometimes misreport their hours and work longer than that though.

The residents I know are in radiology (60 hours/week), internal medicine (55 hours/week), dermatology (50 hours/week) and ER (64 hours/week). You also have to spend around a few hours a week studying on your own, and some residents do time consuming research as well.

You are correct in saying that burnout can easily happen if you don't enjoy your field of medicine.

I know about that law because my Doctor friends have told me. Guess what? No one obeys that rule and everyone works 80 hours per week. Anyone who speaks up suddenly finds themselves not getting a job offer.

Strange how that works.

Next thing you know, you're going to start telling us that truckers lie in their log books and are actually on the road for more than 10 hours a day!

It still amazes me that people go on and on about the "red pill" yet accept all of society's bullshit about everything else.

And next they're also going to tell us that star athletes are treated like everyone else on a college campus and they have no one doing their work for them. You can't swallow half the red pill.

[speeddemon]

(05-21-2013 12:45 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 08:59 PM)speeddemon Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 08:09 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 06:44 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 04:00 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

And when is he supposed to do that inbetween his 6-work week shifts and 12 hour days? This dude is happy to get 8 hours of sleep per night, let alone learn game, hit the gym, and spend hours shopping.

Surgeons work 72+ hours a weeks easily. Infectious Diseases is not considered to be a demanding specialty, so I doubt he works this much.

Wrong. I actually know young doctors and talk to them. 100% of doctors in residency, regardless of the type of practice, work 80+ hours. They don't work less until they've moved up the food chain, which occur once they are in their late 30's (earliest) or 40's (more realistic). And while they are Med school, they already work sick hours and study around 6-8 hours per day. I know all of this because my old roommate was a doctor. Many doctors in med school get part-time jobs on top of school-load too. Talk about a hellish life.

They all have serious issues with burnout. But they have no choice. If they don't put in the crazy hours, they'll be replaced with the near endless stream of new doctors all chasing the paycheck.

In 2003, a law was passed that capped resident work hours to 80 hours per week averaged over 4 weeks. Basically, the max amount of hours that residency programs can make you work is 320 hours per month. Surgeons sometimes misreport their hours and work longer than that though.

The residents I know are in radiology (60 hours/week), internal medicine (55 hours/week), dermatology (50 hours/week) and ER (64 hours/week). You also have to spend around a few hours a week studying on your own, and some residents do time consuming research as well.

You are correct in saying that burnout can easily happen if you don't enjoy your field of medicine.

I know about that law because my Doctor friends have told me. Guess what? No one obeys that rule and everyone works 80 hours per week. Anyone who speaks up suddenly finds themselves not getting a job offer.

Strange how that works.

We both know a few residents, and the people I know work less hours per week compared to the people you know. Travelsick has done a medical residency in the US, and he says it's a 60 hour a week job. I agree with you that the hours don't really get better in medicine for a long time after residency.

This has nothing to do with the red pill or blue pill. It has much more to do with which program you are training at. Some programs are really time consuming while others are much less time consuming.

[Samseau]

Quote:

We both know a few residents, and the people I know work less hours per week compared to the people you know. Travelsick has done a medical residency in the US, and he says it's a 60 hour a week job.

I think the residents you know are either lying or are in special circumstances.

For example, Travelsick is from the UK. He can cite the work law and walk out, because even if he pisses off his program director and doesn't get a job, he can go back to the UK and work for the system there.

Conversely, my doctor friend is from Greece, and definitely does not ever want to work in Greece, so he puts in the hours to make sure he's not one of the guys who doesn't get a good offer post-residency.

[Travelsick]

Uh, this has become a tad testy.

What I see, and what colleagues tell me, the hours can vary greatly depending on location and practice field on average, per week, from between 55 to 75 hours. I too have worked 65, 70 hours on occasion because a colleague was sick or someone left on short notice and the vacancy wasn't immediately filled.

I'm in Switzerland now and I'd say most of the workforce does 48-50 hour workweek. I don't clock out for lunches and breaks, because in truth I roughly get any, I'm at my job from 7 am to 7 pm. That's when I leave. Yes, if I was engaged in research and enjoyed doing elaborate write-ups I could easily be clocking 70 hours a week in my current position, which is a 4th year anaesthesiology resident. Do I have colleagues who do that? Yes. Do they have a life? No.

When I was at UCLA mc I was doing roughly the same hours, the same routine. I lived in westwood so I was nearby. Add a grueling 45 minute commute in traffic or public transport to your workday 60 hours a week indeed becomes quite unbearable. As it is, 60 hours is alrght for me. I'm not thrilled on Monday morning and hell yeah I want to go home now, but I'm not suffering. On average I work 2 weekend days a month and a nightshifts for a week about every 6 weeks.

It's all relative you see. If you're scandinavian or god forbid french, you're doing your 40 hour max week, or 36 respectively and indeed 60 or 65 hours must seem like torture. In contrast, my sister who was an associate lawyer in London with clifford chance before she made babies was regularly doing 80+ hours, to her 60 hours must have felt like a holiday.

Smart people mostly figure shit out for themselves over time. I'm finishing this and then I'll start doing private practice or go into research entirely, combine the two of I can. I'm cool with managing boob job patients or orthopaedic surgery patients for the rest of my time. Those who feel they've found their calling or have academic ambitions keep putting in the hours and do indeed end up earning quite well. Not that they have time to spend it.

Just another word on America: My residency, once finished is not recognised officially in America. I did a USMLE right after finishing university which allowed me to license and practice in US. If I go back to the US I will be able to work in a fellowship position but I will not be esteemed to be a qualified anaesthesiologist by the AMA or other societies. Other countries are way more flexible with this. Doctors can always find jobs if they're willing to relocate. Sometimes you just can't get exactly what you want where you want it is all.

I can't say anything about working conditions in the NHS as a resident, all I did were internships. The doctor training programs in the NHS look like a nightmare to me. My training once completed will have gone on for 10-11 years. In the NHS with the new system I'd be looking at 3+2+2+7=14 years.