Quote: (08-16-2018 01:00 PM)General Stalin Wrote:
Thanks for the links. I'm not as concerned with extreme fireproofing or bells-and-whistles features as I am plain-old theft deterrent. I'd like something with no frills that has 7ga. - 1/4" plate steel all the way around, with minimal door gap. Haven't really factored in budget as I've been convinced that no expense should be spared for keeping your precious valuables safe and secure. I guess I'm willing to pay what I have to.
If all you want is a steel box, hard to beat Sturdy Safe. Cheesy name and even cheesier website but they make an inexpensive steel box in CA that you can customize in a myriad of different ways. Thicker steel, stainless panels to thwart torches, etc. https://www.sturdysafe.com/ . If you want some fire protection, or if you want a better container for your guns that has technology from real safes I would go with an AMSEC BF HD series which feature a concrete fire barrier sandwiched between two layers (4 ga inner/12 ga outer) of steel with a 1/2" plate steel door. http://www.amsecusa.com/
Mini gunsafe data sheet to follow, this is quite a big can of worms with a lot of smoke and mirrors by the industry.
Classifications
One thing to consider for the UL certification is that there are rigorous time limits to preventing entry that must be met in order for the design to achieve certification. 5, 15, or 30 minutes. So let me set the scene for you guys: The UL team gets a safe and brings it in the clean, organized and air conditioned lab. They have every tool imaginable with an endless supply of bits and blades. They consult the blueprints, chuck up their tools and get to work. The clock is only running when the tools are touching the safe. Techs stop to change a blade or bit? Clock stops. Techs get some water or check their Tinder profiles? Clock stops. Techs want to consult the blueprints for the safe? You get the idea.
As someone with multiple safes buy as much steel as you can afford or your house can support and get a bigger safe than you think you need because things have a way of ending up inside.
The most common and inexpensive gun "safe" on the market that has any type of standard is the RSC. If you have a small-modest collection and wish to protect against your typical smash and grab types this is a good category to look at.
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RSC- Residential Security Container
U.L. Label — Residential Security Container:
Signifies a combination-locked safe designed to offer a limited degree of protection against attack by common mechanical and electrical hand tools and any combination of these means.
Construction Requirements
* U.L. listed Group II combination lock or Type 1 electronic lock.
* Door material equivalent to at least 3/16″ open hearth steel.
* Body walls of material equivalent to at least 12 gauge open hearth steel.
Performance Requirements
The door successfully resist entry for a net working time of 5 minutes when attacked against rigorous prying, drilling, punching, chiseling, and tampering attacks by UL technicians.
Graffunder and Brown would fall under this classification. It's a fine high end product with superb construction and materials. If you have a collection with a higher value or other pilfer-able items this might be a good fit.
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Construction Rating
Classification
B
B-Classification / Good Protection
The “B” burglary resistive classification is an industry construction and performance rating. This type of construction rating was established by the insurance industry to develop a standard that will indicate the degree of protection a safe will provide against an attempted burglary attack.
Construction Specifications
Steel doors less than 1″ thick and steel body less than 1/2″ thick.
To my knowledge AMSEC is the only company that makes a TL-15 gun safe.
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Tool-Resistant for 15 min TL-15
U.L. Label — Burglary Classification TL-15: Best Protection:
Signifies a combination-locked safe designed to offer a maximum door protection against attack by common mechanical and electrical hand tools and any combination of these means.
Construction Requirements
• U.L. listed Group 2M, 1, 1R combination lock or Type 1 electronic lock
• 750 lbs. minimum or comes with instructions for anchoring in a larger safe, concrete blocks or on the premises where used.
• Body walls of material equivalent to at least 1″ open hearth steel with a minimum tensile strength of 50,000 P.S.I.
• Walls fastened in a manner equivalent to continuous ¼” penetration weld of open hearth steel with minimum tensile strength of 50,000 P.S.I.
• One hole ¼” or less, to accommodate electrical conductors arranged to have no direct view of the door or locking mechanism.
Performance Requirements
The door successfully resist entry* for a net working time of 15 minutes when attacked with common hand tools, picking tools, mechanical or portable electric tools, grinding points, carbide drills and pressure applying devices or mechanisms.
* Entry means for: Opening the door or making a 6 square inch opening entirely through the door or front face
Now we're talking about a real safe. These products are massive pieces of concrete filled steel that will take a seasoned team substantial time to get into. TL-30 only applies to the door, though there exists a TL-30x6 which extends that rating to all sides of the safe. Also not mentioned are TRTL which are Tool and Torch resistant safes, but these are extremely expensive and too heavy for most residential construction. These safes are usually not gun safes per se but just TL rated commercial safes with a gun safe interior. They weight 2500 lbs + so need to be put on a slab. The weight is due to them being filled with high tensile strength concrete with security enhancements to resist drilling. These enhancements are proprietary in nature but can include nuggets of hard metal, steel cables, and baffles.
If you have jewelry, cash, or high value firearms like NFA items or other rare collectibles this may be a good fit for you.
If you'll forgive the suspenseful music here is a somewhat classic video of a Meilink TL-30 safe passing the UL test.
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Tool-Resistant for 30 min TL-30
U.L. Label — Burglary Classification TL-30: Superior Protection
Signifies a combination-locked safe designed to offer a maximum door protection against attack by common mechanical and electrical hand tools and any combination of these means.
Construction Requirements
U.L. listed Group 2M, 1, 1R combination lock or Type 1 electronic lock
750 lbs. minimum or comes with instructions for anchoring in a larger safe, concrete blocks or on the premises where used.
Body walls of material equivalent to at least 1″ open hearth steel with a minimum tensile strength of 50,000 P.S.I.
Walls fastened in a manner equivalent to continuous ¼” penetration weld of open hearth steel with minimum tensile strength of 50,000 P.S.I.
One hole ¼” or less, to accommodate electrical conductors arranged to have no direct view of the door or locking mechanism.
* Entry means for: Opening the door or making a 6 square inch opening entirely through the door or front face
Signifies a combination-locked safe designed to offer a maximum door protection against attack by common mechanical and electrical hand tools and any combination of these means.
Construction Requirements
• U.L. listed Group 2M, 1, 1R combination lock or Type 1 electronic lock
• 750 lbs. minimum or comes with instructions for anchoring in a larger safe, concrete blocks or on the premises where used.
• Body walls of material equivalent to at least 1″ open hearth steel with a minimum tensile strength of 50,000 P.S.I.
• Walls fastened in a manner equivalent to continuous ¼” penetration weld of open hearth steel with minimum tensile strength of 50,000 P.S.I.
• One hole ¼” or less, to accommodate electrical conductors arranged to have no direct view of the door or locking mechanism.
Performance Requirements
The door successfully resist entry* for a net working time of 30 minutes when attacked with common hand tools, picking tools, mechanical or portable electric tools, grinding points, carbide drills and pressure applying devices or mechanisms, abrasive cutting wheels and power saws.
Fire
A little math and science first. Energy can not be destroyed, it can only change forms. Fire resistance is achieved by a process called calcination, whereby the fire heats up a hygroscopic material which creates steam. This absorbs some of the fire's energy and buys you some time. How much time depends on the materials used. It also creates a positive pressure as steam vents from the safe to the atmosphere. If your safe experiences a fire, plan on your guns most likely being severely corroded at best, and ruined at worst unless you have a barrier for this steam like a silicon impregnated gun sock or a VCI bag. The fire ratings most companies use are wildly optimistic, most safes do not have a UL fire rating.
Fire Resistant Materials
Cement/concrete- This is the most effective for a couple reasons. Primarily it holds the most water, and secondarily it is a "wet fill" and so achieves very uniform coverage. Safes that use this material will have to have a construction of an inner and outer steel lining.
"Fireboard"- This is quite literally gypsum board or drywall and the most inexpensive (and popular) material. It has a small amount of water in it and it usually contains gaps between boards. Unless it is studded to the interior of the safe it will collapse on itself in a fire.
Ceramic/Wool blanket- I don't know why this is used. Pure bro science. People rationalize that "ovens use it" "industrial kilns use it" but those use cases do not have a continuously increasing temperature. It might keep your goods safe for 10 min until the FD gets there but in a total burn down you're rolling the dice.
Electric vs Mechanical Locks
Electric locks when new got a very bad rep for failing and locking their owners out. Advances have been made in reliability so that some models can be even more reliable than mechanical locks (evidenced by manuf. service tickets) Both types will need maintenance every 5-10 years. If you are in/out of your safe several times a day the electric is moderately more convenient than a dial lock. Some safes have both with redundant locking mechanisms. Anything UL listed from S&G or AMSEC will give a long service life.
Security/Fire Precautions
-Buy/install from someone who is licensed and bonded. You don't want some rookies from Costco or Cabela's to move a 1,000 lb steel box around your house do you?
-BOLT YOUR SAFE DOWN! The easiest way to crack a safe is to just take the whole damn thing to somewhere else you can open it at your leisure. Lag bolt it to either a joist or to the foundation.
-Position it against a wall so that one or more sides are not accessible, this reduces the vectors for attack entry.
-Place your safe carefully in regards to fire hazards. On an exterior wall away from flammables is a good idea since there is less to burn so less heat. Putting it in the garage next to your old oil and paint and lawn mower gas is a horrible idea.
-Consider a safe as only a part of a comprehensive security regimen. Cameras, alarms, dogs, and insurance policies should round out your security posture.
-If you have documents, a small waterproof safe or heavy ziploc bags will ensure they are not ruined in the event of a fire.
-Do not put more than your EDC ammo in the safe. If the FD comes and your safe is popping off they will GTFO.
Brands
Everyone will need to do his own research and decide his risk matrix as to how big/heavy/thick to go. One thing is for sure, go with a US made product from a US made company so that you have a solid US warranty in case of any issues.
Tier 1
Graffunder
Brown
AMSEC TL
Browning TL
Tier 2
Fort Knox
Liberty
AMSEC BF
Sturdy Safe
Tier 3
Stackon
Bighorn
Sentry