[DVY]

@Calihunter- Pulp fiction is one of my favorite of QT's movies.

-"We are going to be like 3 little fonzies....Yolanda, whats fonzie like?
"ugh ugh cool...."
"That rights Yolanda, we gonna be cool."

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-13-2013 02:00 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

I think I'm going to push the issue in a few days by telling her that there's no way in hell that I'm shutting down the blog and she'll just have to live with it. The reaction should tell me what I need to know. Or if she wants to talk about it, whichever comes first. She has been alternating loving tenderness with being snappy and irritable these days, so I wouldn't be surprised by another confrontation.

That's one view of the situation.

The way I see it, she's insecure, and your job is to make her feel secure again.

The questions are

1) do you want to figure out of this particular issue
2) do you want to be in control of solving her insecurities for the rest of your relationship?

WIA

[Black Knight]

(05-13-2013 04:55 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

That's one view of the situation.

The way I see it, she's insecure, and your job is to make her feel secure again.

The questions are

1) do you want to figure out of this particular issue
2) do you want to be in control of solving her insecurities for the rest of your relationship?

WIA

Agree here. Ultimatums are often delivered from a position of weakness. She knows that you hold the power in the relationship, likely partially due to reading your own writing. This upsets her, and is exacerbated by her friends and white night orbiters chirping in her ear about how much of a jerk you are because of your red pill opinions.

The reductionist correct advice is often "dump her," but it's understandable that you don't want to eject from what seems like a decent situation otherwise. The move here is to hold your frame, essentially laugh off her request, and refuse to logically address her complaint. Your justification for keeping the blog should basically be "because I want to, that's why."

If she breaks up with you, so be it. You've saved yourself a lot of future headaches. If you acquiesce to this demand, prepare to give up the rest of yourself piecemeal as the relationship continues because this certainly won't be the last ultimatum you receive. It's never enough for them.

[bojangles]

She's young is she not? I think I remember you telling me, that naivety could be a large part of her saying what she is saying. It sounds like she's in the weaker position here, she's demanding these changes from you using that ultimatum because she knows she can't get you to agree to these otherwise. You're in the dominant position lad, just assert it, use 'whatever', hmm, grunts, next time she goes spastic again.

PS..I've not messaged her

[Christian McQueen]

I have been down this road before OP and if you give in, I promise you, you will regret it later.

"She has been alternating loving tenderness with being snappy and irritable these days, so I wouldn't be surprised by another confrontation."

Exactly what my ex acted like, ultimatums and all, right before getting dumped. One of my girls the other day threw a fit about me working in nightlife after the bitch met me at a club almost 5 years ago. I promptly told her to get the f*k out of my car if she was going to make idiotic demands. You have to go old school on these girls. She backed off and hasn't complained since.

Be a f*kn man. Tell her not going to happen; if you don't like it then goodbye. Don't EVER give up a passion over pussy. Never works.

[Timoteo]

(05-14-2013 08:10 AM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  

I have been down this road before OP and if you give in, I promise you, you will regret it later.

"She has been alternating loving tenderness with being snappy and irritable these days, so I wouldn't be surprised by another confrontation."

Exactly what my ex acted like, ultimatums and all, right before getting dumped. One of my girls the other day threw a fit about me working in nightlife after the bitch met me at a club almost 5 years ago. I promptly told her to get the f*k out of my car if she was going to make idiotic demands. You have to go old school on these girls. She backed off and hasn't complained since.

Be a f*kn man. Tell her not going to happen; if you don't like it then goodbye. Don't EVER give up a passion over pussy. Never works.

Yep. This is like the athlete groupie that hits the lottery and gets a ball player to LTR or wife them up, then immediately becomes paranoid about what he's doing out on the road. They know what's out there, because they were one of those chicks themselves.

[The Beast1]

Tell her you chose the blog and watch her storm off.

She'll be back. They always do.

My gf always does that and i tell her to buzz off. She'll come back. No man will satisfy that gina tingle that same way when you tell her how to behave.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

That's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm just waiting until the weekend, she has a very important exam tomorrow and, being an Alpha with a heart of gold (Is that Beta?), I wouldn't want to stress her and have her flunk it.

Stay tuned.

[Lemmo]

(05-15-2013 01:15 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

That's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm just waiting until the weekend, she has a very important exam tomorrow and, being an Alpha with a heart of gold (Is that Beta?), I wouldn't want to stress her and have her flunk it.

Stay tuned.

Has she brought it up again or did she just drop it? If the latter, might be best to just let sleeping dogs lie.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

It was something like this:

- 3 months ago: she keeps bringing up once a month how much she doesn't like my writing
- 1 week ago: she threatens me to shut it down immediately (or in a few days at most) or we're breaking up. I refuse.
- Later that day: she calls me and says she has decided to give me a bit more time (about a month).
- Until today: keeps being snappy and irritable or loving and tender, with almost no in-between. No further talk about the issue.

I wouldn't like to do nothing about this and just wait for the next meltdown in a month because it's started irritating me, and that's far more dangerous for our relationship.

[Blaze Frazier]

Can you see yourself with her in the long run? More than a year from now? If so, give it some thought to move it — not delete it.

If you don't see a true future with her, chunk up the deuces.

[Lemmo]

(05-15-2013 02:39 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

It was something like this:

- 3 months ago: she keeps bringing up once a month how much she doesn't like my blog
- 1 week ago: she threatens me to shut it down immediately (or in a few days at most) or we're breaking up. I refuse.
- Later that day: she calls me and says she has decided to give me a bit more time (about a month).
- Until today: keeps being snappy and irritable or loving and tender, with almost no in-between. No further talk about the issue.

I wouldn't like to do nothing about this and just wait for the next meltdown in a month because it's started irritating me, and that's far more dangerous for our relationship.

Yeah, in that case it makes sense to just deal with and end the issue.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Hm, so she brought up the topic again today, mentioning how she talked about it with one of her ex-boyfriends (to be clear, I don't have anything against her talking to one in general, but seeking opinion on this issue from such a person is ridiculous), who is a "really nice guy", and he said that it's is awful and I should hang myself

I told her again that I have thought about this issue a lot and that I still don't want to shut it down, nor that I can see myself doing it in the near future (although I'd still do it when we get married, seeing how that is so important to her). I also pointed out that this makes me feel like she doesn't appreciate me, that no adult man should suffer ultimatums over his personal opinions, and that all this drama is hurting my attraction for her.

Conclusion: we haven't officially broken up yet, but it's imminent. I just don't know whether to initiate it myself or wait for her to do it (waiting doesn't cost me anything). Whatever it is, there's no chance in hell that I'll accept her demands, and the chances of her relenting from this crazy idea seem slim as well.

Thanks for all the advice, gentlemen. This was nice while it lasted.

[AneroidOcean]

(05-15-2013 04:51 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Hm, so she brought up the topic again today, mentioning how she talked about the blog with one of her ex-boyfriends (to be clear, I don't have anything against her talking to one in general, but seeking opinion on this issue from such a person is ridiculous), who is a "really nice guy", and he said that the blog is awful and I should hang myself

I told her again that I have thought about this issue a lot and that I still don't want to shut it down, nor that I can see myself doing it in the near future (although I'd still do it when we get married, seeing how that is so important to her). I also pointed out that this makes me feel like she doesn't appreciate me, that no adult man should suffer ultimatums over his personal opinions, and that all this drama is hurting my attraction for her.

Her response was first something like "you can break up with me if you want then", then when I remained silent something like "let's give it some time, I'm not giving you a deadline (although she still can't wait until the wedding)". She also said that she has to give me an ultimatum because I am giving her an ultimatum by refusing to marry her unless she stops smoking and that, unlike me, she can't wait because she is an impatient person. Also that "I am showing that I don't really love her because I won't get rid of such a tiny thing".

Anyways, after me repeating that I think this is totally unacceptable and that there is less than 0.1% chance of me reconsidering, she changed the topic and tried to "calm me down". ( ). After that, she reiterated there was no deadline, as if that meant anything.

Conclusion: we haven't officially broken up yet, but it's imminent. I just don't know whether to initiate it myself or wait for her to do it (waiting doesn't cost me anything). Whatever it is, there's no chance in hell that I'll accept her demands, and the chances of her relenting from this crazy idea seem slim as well.

Thanks for all the advice, gentlemen. This was nice while it lasted.

I'm surprised you didn't put your foot down about her taking an ex-boyfriend really nice guy's advice on something that doesn't relate to him at all. This is HUGE disrespect.

[Lemmo]

(05-15-2013 04:59 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(05-15-2013 04:51 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Hm, so she brought up the topic again today, mentioning how she talked about the blog with one of her ex-boyfriends (to be clear, I don't have anything against her talking to one in general, but seeking opinion on this issue from such a person is ridiculous), who is a "really nice guy", and he said that the blog is awful and I should hang myself

I told her again that I have thought about this issue a lot and that I still don't want to shut it down, nor that I can see myself doing it in the near future (although I'd still do it when we get married, seeing how that is so important to her). I also pointed out that this makes me feel like she doesn't appreciate me, that no adult man should suffer ultimatums over his personal opinions, and that all this drama is hurting my attraction for her.

Her response was first something like "you can break up with me if you want then", then when I remained silent something like "let's give it some time, I'm not giving you a deadline (although she still can't wait until the wedding)". She also said that she has to give me an ultimatum because I am giving her an ultimatum by refusing to marry her unless she stops smoking and that, unlike me, she can't wait because she is an impatient person. Also that "I am showing that I don't really love her because I won't get rid of such a tiny thing".

Anyways, after me repeating that I think this is totally unacceptable and that there is less than 0.1% chance of me reconsidering, she changed the topic and tried to "calm me down". ( ). After that, she reiterated there was no deadline, as if that meant anything.

Conclusion: we haven't officially broken up yet, but it's imminent. I just don't know whether to initiate it myself or wait for her to do it (waiting doesn't cost me anything). Whatever it is, there's no chance in hell that I'll accept her demands, and the chances of her relenting from this crazy idea seem slim as well.

Thanks for all the advice, gentlemen. This was nice while it lasted.

I'm surprised you didn't put your foot down about her taking an ex-boyfriend really nice guy's advice on something that doesn't relate to him at all. This is HUGE disrespect.

Not only taking advice but basically talking about what an asshole he is. You couldn't have a clearer example of the beta orbiter waiting for his chance. And the fact that she chose him to go to and then throws it in your face is not a good sign... How was she expecting you to respond? "Oh, if the guy you used to fuck says I should kill myself I must be out of line. I'll take the blog down now."

I still think you'd have been better off just trying to resolve the issue with a clear "no" rather than engaging in a vague ongoing dialogue, comparing relative hurt feelings, etc. 1 month+ of drama over a blog just seems strange, especially if you guys were serious enough to have been talking marriage and you'd already agreed to take down the blog if you got married. I suppose she has her own side of the story but it just sounds like you are bending over backwards and she wants to keep cracking the whip until you are fully obedient.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I don't really care about beta orbiters, every woman has tons of them. If some desperate guy wants to waste his time being her crying buddy, let him. I just wanted to give it one more chance to resolve things peacefully in hopes that she could be reasoned with, but it appears that the only thing left is to eject.

[AneroidOcean]

(05-15-2013 06:21 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

I don't really care about beta orbiters, every woman has tons of them. If some desperate guy wants to waste his time being her crying buddy, let him. I just wanted to give it one more chance to resolve things peacefully in hopes that she could be reasoned with, but it appears that the only thing left is to eject.

You're misunderstanding. The beta orbiter isn't the problem necessarily, it's HER huge disrespect of you by choosing to take the beta orbiter's opinion/side over you, her man. She should be checked or probably in this case cut loose immediately.

[Vacancier Permanent]

HCE,
You should consider yourself one lucky guy for the fact that she has shown her real dominating bitchy face before the wedding. If she is like that now, imagine what she would be like when, god forbid, you were to tie the knot with someone like her. You should have been strict from the beginning with her as some things are simply not negotiable, that is her trying to make demands of you, telling you who you can and cannot see, when you can go out and hang out with your friends and worst, making silly demands and ultimatums like these. Seeing how things has been going and how you've handled it, I would simply pump her a few more times before dumping her. And make sure to never make the same mistake with the next girl. Be the man at all times, control, lead and be firm from day 1, every day and always. No ifs or buts tolerated or allowed! Be a caveman if needed. For someone writing about red pill stuff, you should know all this already.

But I understand in a wasteland of fatties, feminists and other ugly trolls roaming freeing, the sight of a young, fresh and tight little thing can affect our judgement. If you're living in the US/Canada or the UK, the girls there are only good for the classic P&D. You'd be out of your mind to want to settle down or worst, get married to one. If you're still bent on getting married, do it overseas with a foreign woman in her country and keep her there! Never ever bring her in the contaminated and polluted western world! As a red pill writer, you are aware of that I'm sure.

Best of luck man!

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Oh don't get me wrong VP, I am aware of that. But I appreciate girls who don't require a lot of game and don't have an excessive amount of hamster. I value a good character that shows she isn't just stone-skipping from one guy with good game to another. So when I meet such a girl, I am sure to cut her some slack unless she proves me wrong, like in this case.

I don't have anything against using some routines, A&A, negs or whatnot, but having to repeatedly caveman a girl into submission is not my idea of fun. If she forces me to do that, she's not worth it beyond a pump and dump. I know xsplat will now probably jump in and lecture me on how I need to train her like an animal but, honestly, I have better things to do. Making her character great isn't my responsibility.

Btw, she is Croatian. Just another indicator how much feminism has infiltrated these parts.

[Roosh]

It sounds like she has the upper hand in the relationship. The fact that she's bringing it up more than once means you're allowing her to control the frame by trying to reason with her.

"If you don't like my blog, then go date another guy."

End of problem.

Quote:

Her response was first something like "you can break up with me if you want then", then when I remained silent something like "let's give it some time, I'm not giving you a deadline (although she still can't wait until the wedding)".

Come on man, she's BEGGING YOU to step up and defeat her shit test, and you pull out a beta response. It's not the blog that is troubling her at this point, but your RESPONSE to her telling you to shut down the blog.

[Blaze Frazier]

You should blog about breaking up with her.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Or better yet, write a long and detailed blog post about how making demands and giving ultimatums are the dumbest and fastest way to lose a guy and then, send it to her. Would be making her hamster go into overdrive.

(05-15-2013 07:22 PM)Blaze Frazier Wrote:  

You should blog about breaking up with her.

[Sabra]

(05-15-2013 06:27 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(05-15-2013 06:21 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

I don't really care about beta orbiters, every woman has tons of them. If some desperate guy wants to waste his time being her crying buddy, let him. I just wanted to give it one more chance to resolve things peacefully in hopes that she could be reasoned with, but it appears that the only thing left is to eject.

You're misunderstanding. The beta orbiter isn't the problem necessarily, it's HER huge disrespect of you by choosing to take the beta orbiter's opinion/side over you, her man. She should be checked or probably in this case cut loose immediately.

It was her ex-boyfriend she was talking to, right? Since when is an ex considered a 'beta orbiter'? Once a guys banged a girl, he's not exactly friend-zoned any more, is he?

(05-15-2013 07:07 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

It sounds like she has the upper hand in the relationship. The fact that she's bringing it up more than once means you're allowing her to control the frame by trying to reason with her.

"If you don't like my blog, then go date another guy."

End of problem.

Quote:

Her response was first something like "you can break up with me if you want then", then when I remained silent something like "let's give it some time, I'm not giving you a deadline (although she still can't wait until the wedding)".

Come on man, she's BEGGING YOU to step up and defeat her shit test, and you pull out a beta response. It's not the blog that is troubling her at this point, but your RESPONSE to her telling you to shut down the blog.

Well said. Not to get over-analytical here, but look at the title of this thread.

"[LTR] Chauvinist problems"

Who says that you're a chauvinist? Who said you've got a problem?

Sounds like her arguments are making their way into your frame.



But I do want to add a little nuance to the whole discussion of ultimatums. I'd guess that a large % of marriages came to be only because the woman put her foot down and said 'ring or I'm gone'.

Does that necessarily mean it's a bad relationship? It could just mean that the guy was taking his sweet time to make a decision. That's not what happened in my marriage, but I did get the 'we're moving in together or it's over' ultimatum after about a year and a half of dating.

It's not pleasant, but in a situation like that, you can understand where she's coming from. Most of us guys get happy with the status quo in a good relationship, and don't see a need for change until we're pushed.

So basically, some ultimatums are indeed a woman's hail mary done from a point of relative weakness, but ultimately out of love. But some are done for control, and should immediately be rejected.

[Timoteo]

No matter what a woman accepts before you're married, deep down, she's saying to herself, "When we're married, this will change." I definitely think it's important that you establish certain things early as non-negotiable, but it appears HCE's woman revisits the same issue periodically, which is even more annoying because you simply can't put it to rest. She's let it be known that she's sought the outside counsel of another male, one that she was intimate with. She openly invited him to break up with her. She appears to have drawn a line in the sand. Sure, there are better/different ways HCE could have dealt with this, but the blog is obviously a sticking point with her that she can't get past. I think no matter what he did short of killing the blog would have brought them to this point.

There was a time in my life when I would have let a chick break up with me. At a certain point, I lost the fear of cutting a bitch off if I was unhappy. She's going to keep fucking with you about this until it comes to a head. If you aren't going to budge (and you shouldn't), you should end it yourself. There doesn't have to be rancor. Just tell her that killing your blog, something that gives you joy, is simply a compromise you can't make. If she believes that keeping the blog is a reflection of your love, or lack thereof for her, you want to free her to find someone that can love her in the way she feels she deserves. But fuck her one last time before you let her go...HA HA!

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I agree that my approach is "weak", but that is the whole point here. Of course I could scream at her when she brings it up and make her submit, but it's self-defeating. I don't want to be in a LTR with a woman whom I have to control that way. One day, almost guaranteed when people spend many years together, a point will come when for some reason I will feel bad or tired and I am unable to handle a shit test (even though passing it is the right thing to do). Do I really want to have a woman who will threaten to break up with me because I didn't shout at her or preemptively threaten her with leaving (or because she went through with a crazy ultimatum)? Hell no.

Dalrock Wrote:

The foundation for her commitment to your marriage shouldn’t be your game. If she is only one, or a few, or even 50 failed shit tests away from walking away from her sacred vow and/or whoring around, then she isn’t a wife, she is a whore. Don’t marry a whore.
http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2010/11/19/...your-wife/

That's the only reason why I gave her so many chances to talk it over, behave reasonably and not force me to either agree with her ridiculous demand or shout and kick her out. She failed all of them, but I think a woman who is otherwise good to me deserves a chance to turn around.

Supeficially, it looks like the same lose-lose bet like with those women who constantly shit test men - either men are alpha and dump them, or they're beta and give in to their demands, so she becomes disgusted by him - either way, the woman loses. However, the difference is that I'll just find another girl and be happy if she dumps me over this (or I dump her, as my patience has expired completely). Unlike her, I have no expiry date.

p.s. for the record, we don't live together.