Anyone remember when I mentioned several months ago that I was in a relationship with a really nice girl who even knew about my writing and was completely fine with those?

Well, things have been going sour of late. Now not a week passes that I don't hear whining about how I'm horrible, cruel, harsh (disclaimer: my writing is mild compared to Roosh and Roissy), arrogant, hateful, disturbed and chauvinist (this last point is particularly ironic because I also give advice to women as well as men and have as many thankful female fans as haters). I believe that this sudden whining is more due to influence of her slutty girl / beta guy friends, but it's all the same.

Anyways, I have been unable to reason with her. I'm cool with her not liking what I write but, of late, she's been talking about how she hates my online persona and that I'm not similar to it in real life at all (I disagree with this - as I said the writing is mild and sometimes harsh, but always full of understanding, just like I am in RL) and that it makes her love me less. She completely denies everything I say, even tons of scientific studies that I have posted, and is completely hamster-ish in her arguments. I can't talk her into not hating it, let alone not vehemently denying everything that I write.

Finally, last week she gave me an ultimatum that I shut down all my writing immediately or in the next few days or we're breaking up. I refused and explained that the blog was a part of my identity and that, even if I somehow decided to do it as a huge favor to her, doing it in this fashion would be completely unacceptable. As a compromise, I offered her to shut it down if/when we get married (I've considered marrying her in late 2014 if things keep going great like they have and she is aware of that - was this Beta?), as a personal and very special favor, but she said that this solution was too late for her, so currently we're in a tug-of-war where she says she'll give me "a little more time", whatever the fuck that means.

I'm adamant that I won't do it. It sounds like pure blackmail to me. Moreover, it sounds like an incredibly retarded thing to fight about, let alone break up. Even if I were really writing chauvinist, nazi or similar disagreeable stuff, it shouldn't be her business. I don't complain to her about her posting retarded stuff on Facebook either. Anyways, now I don't know what to do. This shit has really soured the relationship for me. I still appreciate what we have in other fields (she likes cooking for me, worships my cock and isn't high maintenance), but this has really started gnawing on me.

Anyways, I can't imagine staying with or ever marrying someone who is giving me ultimatums like that. I can understand that she doesn't like it - maybe being very sensitive naturally comes in package with being sweet and feminine - but the ultimatum "must be today" aspect upsets me and is making me more and more apathetic about her.
On the other hand, it seems like the stupidest possible issue to break up over and it would really be a pity, so I'm considering less drastic options first. Has anyone ever changed a girl's mind on manosphere issues? Any similar situations? Advice on how to convince her?

Quote: (05-11-2013 02:39 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Anyways, I can't imagine staying with or ever marrying someone who is giving me ultimatums like that. I can understand that she doesn't like the blog - maybe being very sensitive naturally comes in package with being sweet and feminine - but the ultimatum "must be today" aspect upsets me and is making me more and more apathetic about her.
On the other hand, it seems like the stupidest possible issue to break up over and it would really be a pity, so I'm considering less drastic options first. Has anyone ever changed a girl's mind on manosphere issues? Any similar situations? Advice on how to convince her?

Once women start doing shit like this they're usually just looking for excuses, if it wasn't that it would be something else. I would assume even if you shut the blog down right now things aren't going to change much in the near future.

On 4th down you don't want the ball anymore.

Punt.

My frame would be: this is not a legitimate topic of conversation, I am not going to discuss this with you. You don't tell her not to read certain books, and she doesn't tell you what you can and can't say. Be your old charming self, and avoid talking about it. You convey that you can enjoy each other, without this blog getting in the way.

Maybe she's experiencing doubt about the relationship, and this is her way of testing your 'devotion?' Maybe try something bold to spice things up and make her forget about the blog. Create drama, have epic sex, flood her with emotion, etc. Intellectually debating with a woman dries the pussy up.

That said, I'm fairly expressive about my views myself. I'm naturally curious about the world, I notice patterns that aren't always polite. I have had girls nag me about it, but it's most problematic when you've been banging a girl and the casual relationship is getting stale, and your differences start to grate on her. If she really likes you, she'll be more inclined to ignore it or even come around to your way of thinking.

Sounds like Nuclear Shit Test 3

Unless you want to spend the rest of your life with this chick, cut her loose. Otherwise, remove or covertly "move" the blog. Not worth the headache, I would know.

Women often will pull the whole "give up blah, blah, blah if you really love me" bullshit. They love the concept of you "sacrificing" something to prove your love. It IS an ultimatum. A power play, because maybe she feels you have too much power in the relationship. What she's failing to acknowledge is that via your blog, she's gotten some insight into how you view certain issues. You discontinuing your blog won't change how you think, which ultimately is more important to your relationship, whether you're sharing those insights with the world or not. I would stand firm. If you capitulate, it's just the first in other instances where if she disagrees, she'll engage in other similar behavior. If you're married, it will be to withhold sex or something. If she walks, she walks.

This is about control -- her future control of you. And I'm sorry to tell you that you are in a lose-lose situation. We've all been there. Here is what you're facing.

1). You keep the blog up and she stays gone and stays an uber-bitch.

2). You remove the blog and she loses respect for you because you've now made yourself her bitch (unconsciously she will feel you're the type of man to buckle under to pressure and therefore not much of a man at all).

There is an old saying: you pay for the ticket, you might as well take the ride. She knew what ride she would be going on when she met you. She knew your rep and your blog. So it's hypocritical of her to make you want to change. You don't buy Pepsi then scream at the clerk when it's not Yoo-Hoo.

As for the ultimatum...it goes without saying that in any relationship an ultimatum means there is a person with a control problem. But if you think it's bad now, wait until you have a couple of kids and she really has something to give you an ultimatum about. Because if that day comes, her recourse against you will be far greater than having you shut a blog down.

This is her way of warning you that she's intolerable to live with and doesn't deserve commitment.
If you are interested in marriage though, read Thomas the Rhymer's post two or three times and give it a serious thought.

AWALT. You should be gratefull she shows her true colors before marriage and not after. If she was smart she wouldve kept her mouth shut untill she had her claws in you.

Quote: (05-11-2013 03:40 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Intellectually debating with a woman dries the pussy up.

also, bail. the fact you didn't tell her fuck off immediately shows you're in a low power position here. no good can come of it.

Quote: (05-11-2013 06:01 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

This is about control -- her future control of you. And I'm sorry to tell you that you are in a lose-lose situation. We've all been there. Here is what you're facing.

1). You keep the blog up and she stays gone and stays an uber-bitch.

2). You remove the blog and she loses respect for you because you've now made yourself her bitch (unconsciously she will feel you're the type of man to buckle under to pressure and therefore not much of a man at all).

There is an old saying: you pay for the ticket, you might as well take the ride. She knew what ride she would be going on when she met you. She knew your rep and your blog. So it's hypocritical of her to make you want to change. You don't buy Pepsi then scream at the clerk when it's not Yoo-Hoo.

As for the ultimatum...it goes without saying that in any relationship an ultimatum means there is a person with a control problem. But if you think it's bad now, wait until you have a couple of kids and she really has something to give you an ultimatum about. Because if that day comes, her recourse against you will be far greater than having you shut a blog down.

Yeah, the problem is that you were trying to logically argue with her about these topics rather than just treating them as beyond her understanding and interest and outside your relationship. Now, male-female dynamics are always on her mind, greatly exacerbated by her stupid friends and she is going to show she is really in control by making you do what she wants. And almost all women will try to find out how much they can get away with. If it is a lot, then you end up with a spoiled child. It seems it would have been better to have set clear boundaries for her ("my blog is my business and I don't take ultimatums") and left it at that.

Based on your description, it sounds like she generally treats you like shit but you're coasting on the memories of better times in the relationship. Like DOBA says, this is a mini-version of the dynamic that results in a guy staying with a women for 20 years after she has packed on 50lbs and become a full time shrew. Run. Do you really want a life where a woman is dictating small details of your life like the content of a blog? Unless you are a meth addict or doing something else self-destructive, an adult man should not be receiving ultimatums. Would she close FB if you gave her an ultimatum?

I left something out of my original comment.

By standing back and saying "whatever" to her ultimatum, you may win in the long run. Disaffection/disinterest has brought more than one woman around. If you just play it cool and wait it out, she may come back and say she's sorry, she's not usually like this, blah blah blah.

But if you do end up together, take heed of the warnings here. I know someone who spends his life working like a slave because his wife put them in debt with a series of "ultimatums" about everything from home remodeling to vacations to cars. When I asked why he wasn't divorced he reminded me that he lives in California and with the divorce laws there it's "cheaper to keep her."

Also, this women better be hot as hell!

Quote: (05-11-2013 02:39 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Has anyone ever changed a girl's mind on manosphere issues? Any similar situations? Advice on how to convince her?

I talk with my wife about these issues sometimes. She's pretty open eyed about things, at least as far as women can be. For example she'll tell her 30-something girlfriends they need to get serious and settle down, not keep chasing new guys until they become undesirable. Or she'll tell my shy friends to stop being bitches and go approach women.

But there's some things that almost no women will agree with, like advising guys to stay single and keep playing.

Not sure there's much point in trying to convince another person about anything. Most people are pretty stuck in their beliefs.

I like what basilransom wrote. She doesn't have a 'right' to tell you what you can and can't write. Just like she can't stop you from going out occasionally with the boys to watch the game.

redacted

Quote:Quote:

If she really likes you, she'll be more inclined to ignore it or even come around to your way of thinking.

That's what I was thinking, but it just doesn't seem to be happening. Our relations are quite fine other than that, as strange as it sounds.

Quote:Quote:

There is an old saying: you pay for the ticket, you might as well take the ride. She knew what ride she would be going on when she met you. She knew your rep and your blog. So it's hypocritical of her to make you want to change. You don't buy Pepsi then scream at the clerk when it's not Yoo-Hoo.

Of course, it simultaneously seems like something is wrong because of her change of opinion. Here's how the blog thing started:

When we first started dating, I would often mention that I write a lot (like every other "what are you doing", but she never asked what), but I would never point out what I was writing just by myself. I have found that most girls, if I mention it to them, friendzone me and want me to "use my great knowledge" to help them win back that jerk ex-boyfriend (LOL), so I don't mention it unless asked.

A few months into the relationship, we were talking about some stuff and I finally mentioned it. Her reaction was positive. There were a few topics that she didn't like, but overall she accepted it as part of me and it was harmonious for the next half a year. That's the main reason why I view this change as something hypocritical.

Quote:Quote:

They love the concept of you "sacrificing" something to prove your love. It IS an ultimatum. A power play, because maybe she feels you have too much power in the relationship.

Well, there are a few things that I don't like about her either and that I want her to change, but I am not giving her an ultimatum that they must happen today (example: stop smoking). Her argument that she can't do the same for this issue is that "I know she is an impatient person".

Quote:Quote:

Based on your description, it sounds like she generally treats you like shit but you're coasting on the memories of better times in the relationship. Like DOBA says, this is a mini-version of the dynamic that results in a guy staying with a women for 20 years after she has packed on 50lbs and become a full time shrew. Run. Do you really want a life where a woman is dictating small details of your life like the content of a blog? Unless you are a meth addict or doing something else self-destructive, an adult man should not be receiving ultimatums.

As I said, it's ironic that our relations are otherwise good and she is treating me well (if you discount the current wave of unrelated complaints initiated by this shit). Sex is still good, says she loves me often, talks about future, etc. That said, I completely agree with this principle and about the potential danger. It worries me a lot.

Quote:Quote:

Would she close FB if you gave her an ultimatum?

LOL. Possibly she would. But I am of opinion that a decent person shouldn't demand ridiculous things like that.

Quote:Quote:

By standing back and saying "whatever" to her ultimatum, you may win in the long run. Disaffection/disinterest has brought more than one woman around. If you just play it cool and wait it out, she may come back and say she's sorry, she's not usually like this, blah blah blah.

I was counting on that and possibly it's happening, but the longer it lasts, the more it will make me give up on the whole thing. I am still debating with myself whether to bring the hammer down and say that her request is not happening, or keep observing quietly and let indifference speak for itself (as long as things remain fine and inane drama is discontinued, otherwise I'm bailing for sure).

Quote:Quote:

So he looks down, he looks back up, he looks deep into her eyes and says

"Before you, there was music. And after you, there will still be music"

WIA

Very admirable. How did it end? or

Thanks everyone!

When a girl picks a stupid fight with you over something like this, I've found the best thing to do is throw it back in her face. Blame her for trying to sabotage things. Call her a fucking idiot who doesn't appreciate you. Tell her she's trying to tear you down, etc... Then don't talk to her at all for a week. This only works if she thinks you are legitimately mad as fuck. You can't be calm when you do this. You need to "snap" and yell at her.

Girls do this kind of stupid shit when they're looking for drama. Give her some.

Write a blog post about ultimatums and then send it to her.

Quote: (05-12-2013 06:51 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

When a girl picks a stupid fight with you over something like this, I've found the best thing to do is throw it back in her face. Blame her for trying to sabotage things. Call her a fucking idiot who doesn't appreciate you. Tell her she's trying to tear you down, etc... Then don't talk to her at all for a week. This only works if she thinks you are legitimately mad as fuck. You can't be calm when you do this. You need to "snap" and yell at her.

Girls do this kind of stupid shit when they're looking for drama. Give her some.

Agreed. Pull some Roissy shit, start a massive fight, call her a fake bitch (women hate being called fake), tell her you can't believe she's doing this to you, kick her out of your house, maybe even carry her out over your shoulder and leave her on the curb. Use your imagination.

Seems to me she's throwing a maaasive shit test at you, be like water, bro.

redacted

See, that's a critical part of my dilemma. Part of my attraction for her is based on the fact that she is a "nice girl" who didn't require almost any game to get but is still selective. So far, there have been very few moments when I had to use any kind of game, even a simple A&A. Our relationship has always been really open and honest, and I have not encountered such unreasonable demands from her.

So my dilemma is threefold:

a) will she lose attraction towards me if she is really nice like she has been so far and I don't treat her with consideration?
b) will I lose attraction towards her if I am forced to endure drama and subdue her over such a stupid issue?
c) if neither a nor b happen, is this still a blueprint for the future, when an ultimatum will have me in a far worse position?

I think I'm going to push the issue in a few days by telling her that there's no way in hell I'll do that and she'll just have to live with it. The reaction should tell me what I need to know. Or if she wants to talk about it, whichever comes first. She has been alternating loving tenderness with being snappy and irritable these days, so I wouldn't be surprised by another confrontation.

She is not going to "lose" the attraction, she has and is lashing at you in anger because you are perceived already weak, she is giving you an opportunity to assert dominance over your domain

ultimately the same issues, with whatever you are weak at, will be triggering for her

I am on the rowing team at my university. A girl I was with for 6 months hated the team because I would spend a lot of time with them instead of her. They are my family.

One day, during her period, she said "you either pick me or the rowing team". I said "why would I pick you over rowing" and then left her place.

A few days went by and she came to my place late at night and we had fantastic sex.

Once you take a stand, hold it.

P.S: when a woman gives you an ultimatum, you need to condition her to never do that again swiftly and decisively. When you get sick and take antibiotics, you don't half ass it and take half of the pills. It may cure you temporarily but you may likely get sick again and will require even stronger medicine(conditioning) to be cured.

Conditioning is one of mans most powerful weapons.

My first reaction is to tell her to hit the bricks.

But I want to get at what I think the real problem is: She has mentioned your blog to some of her peeps and they have looked in on it and do not approve and now they are shaming her for allowing it / being with you.

That is what is causing her to be bothered by it.

Therefore, you need to let her know that in order to stay with you (since the blog stays) she is going to need to chill and accept the idea of letting those particular peeps walk away from her. In that case, she should also have the sense to STFU with any future peeps about your blog.

Furthermore, she should be defending YOU from these haters/shamers. How do you think Howard Stern's wife handles it?

She needs to go back to the (white knights) who are dogging her over the blog and explain how the shit is true, how it helps people, how the blue-pill lies hurt people, and tell those motherfuckers to grow a pair.

That, my friend, is the solution.

do the Ibra move and show her the door: