[OGNorCal707]

Warning this is a drunk thread, I entirely expect this thread to be voted 1 star when I wake up in the afternoon, (most likely by Houston )... It's 4 AM which is out of character for me, but I write this before passing the fuck out.

It may be stating the obvious, but looks play such a huge factor in game, that I feel like a handsome man's game will not be equal to a less attractive man's game. In other words a less attractive man is going to need to compensate that much more by having good game. Whereas your typical tall handsome bro, will not need much game if any at all, and will still pull lot's of tail.

This is why I respect the game and advice of the shorter and less "genetically gifted" players out there. There is often talk of "naturals" and I will agree there is such thing as "natural game" and there are guys who are naturally extroverted and have the proper social skills to be successful in the game. However, I feel that most "naturals" are just guys who are considerably above average in terms of looks and heights. They are "natural" because women are naturally attracted to them and they are confident because they have had the proper experience to back them up.

There experiences reinforce their confidence, their confidence is reinforced by their successes, but their successes are largely due to their looks. They don't need to use game to build attraction, *they already have attraction from the get go.* Now I know you guys will say that handsome guys need game too, but how many handsome guys out there are just complete bubbling idiots that can't put together more than two sentences? Handsome guys aren't starting from a place of being socially awkward, of being an outcast, etc. Beyond that, the level of game they need pales in comparison to the level that a less attractive man will need.

I may be stating the obvious, but my point is, I'm not impressed if a guy is 6 ft. 4 in. and looks like Brad Pitt, when he consistently smashes 8+ caliber women. I am impressed when your typical average bro pulls this off.

I have a friend I have referred to before on the forum, who is 6 ft. 4 in. and "classically handsome", dude gets approached by chicks who are basically throwing themselves at him. Now I am not a hater, but it irks the fuck out of me when dude wants to brag about how tight his game is, when in fact I know that game has nothing to do with his success. Dude doesn't even really have decent game, and a guy who was under 6 ft. and average looking would not pull anywhere close to my homie

It does piss me off though when he talks shit about other guys being on dry spells and when he hates when I pull a chick who is a 6, that I actually approach and run game on, while he just posts up at the bar and a fine 8 basically throws herself at him.

Also, hearing my bro give out game advice or discuss game tactics is fucking hilarious. He has repeatedly said that it's "best not to approach chicks" and just chill back and act mysterious and aloof and let women come to you. Now this works for him, but it's just about the worst advice you can give the average guy. I try to make the point to him, that I've been the wallflower who chilled at the end of the bar and didn't open his mouth the whole night, but that cute girl never stumbled up to me and started a conversation with me, that led to sex. I litterally went months upon months, reaching into years without sex, before I discovered game.

So to end this drunken rant, when learning and studying game, the game you get from a more average man, will me more potent than game you receive from a more attractive man. Game is game and can come from any source, but I got more respect for the men who come up in the trenches and learn game the hard way, the insight, knowledge, and just fire game they will bring, will be beyond anything that your typical handsome bro will bring to the table.

[void]

Looks are part of the game. thats why lifting and a good style is promoted in the forum. you can't change your body completely, and yes, tall guys have a natural bonus + they have almost the full normal distribution of womens height (~90%), because they are taller than all the tall girls. whereas a smaller guy has like (<70%) of the spectrum.
tall and handsome is genetically "alpha" from the get go, thats nature. pretty boy game only works for pretty boys

[DriftWood]

I think male physical attractiveness differs slightly to female attractiveness in the way that good looks on a man just increases his range of appeal to women which gives him more options, some women still won't find him attractive no matter what he does because he's not their type. Men can be very polarizing in that aspect. On the other hand most men will be very predictable in agreeing on what constitutes female attractiveness.

I have average looking friends who still manage to attract good looking girls on the odd occasion because they have a "thing" that the girl likes which slots them into a particular niche. The average looking man needs to figure out what that "thing" is and exploit it.

[soup]

I don't think you can make blanket statements about one type of guy's game being better for individual players than another's.

Game that works for a less attractive man is congruent to less attractive man. Same can be said for guys of varying values. A handsome guy who uses an mediocre looking guy's game.. that might back fire due to incongruity, and visa versa.

[Screwston]

(04-27-2013 12:21 PM)DriftWood Wrote:  

I have average looking friends who still manage to attract good looking girls on the odd occasion because they have a "thing" that the girl likes which slots them into a particular niche. The average looking man needs to figure out what that "thing" is and exploit it.

I think you mean "fishbowl" or his "niche". Yeah, I think every guy should know what type of girls he has most success with. It makes things a lot easier.

Regarding the thread, we all get advice from mechanico and that fool looks like a troll under the bridge. We can learn a lot from him

[OGNorCal707]

(04-28-2013 03:12 AM)houston Wrote:  

Regarding the thread, we all get advice from mechanico and that fool looks like a troll under the bridge. We can learn a lot from him

I guess he is short and I'd imagine pretty hairy.

[WestCoast]

This is true.

I take no game advice from anyone who upon hello, has higher value than me. Doesn't work.

A 9/10 adds no value to my life, except that we should improve our looks.

I said before my wing is 2pts better looking than me. After we hung out for 2 years, he kills me now.

No hate from me happy for him. He adds zero game value to my life, but gets free hook ups now so I benefit from that. Win win 0 alcohol expense, I'll pull the 7 he gets the 9.

This applies to everything in life.

Was the guy poorer than you growing up? Is he rich now? You should listen to his money advice. If he was a yuppie his opinions are useless.

Does the guy have a good job and can't save a penny? Ignore his personal financial advice, listen to his career advice.

Does the guy hate on a certain group? Ignore all his opinions on said group.

Basically, most guys are insecure or stupid, so filter them based on their results. Ignore the rest and smile at all their other opinions.

Luckily, once you become a sociopath, (like me) you can almost always tell what a guy looks like + his ethnicity by typing style alone.

[speakeasy]

Surprisingly cogent for a 4am drunken post.

Getting advice from pretty boys is about as useless as getting advice from women.

[RandalGraves]

That's why I always tell my guy friends to develop their own style of game. Other people will give you advice that work for their situation: their looks/height, their mannerisms, their interests, their environment, their "brand." There are very few principles that work across the board unconditionally: be confident, have a fun vibe, keep an abundance mentality, etc.

Yet, if you got advice on dance floor game from RVF, you have no idea what he's working with, and how those unknown variables are affecting their game. A 5'7 guy rolling solo will emphasize the approach, keeping yourself in state, and grinding out the numbers game. A 6'3 handsome dude who parties with his friends at the club will probably emphasize a venus fly-trap game when girls naturally approach him and his social circle.

I hear some of my friends, generally taller and/or good looking talk about girls approaching them at the club occasionally. But these guys don't really have the tight game that I have, and I never hear them brag about getting laid from these freebies. Meanwhile, I'm <6', almost never get approached, and yet I have notched a few dancefloor bangs from putting in the approaches and applying what I know works for me.

[Screwston]

Tall, good looking guys will probably have some of the worst game and will have a breakdown if thrown in a club or spot where they wont be any girl's type. I can't imagine most tall, pretty model types being able to go out during the day and trying to get numbers. You still have to be able to hold a conversation and approach like everyone else.

[EisenBarde]

Oh shit there's a thread rating feature!

[thegmanifesto]

(04-28-2013 01:30 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

This is true.

I take no game advice from anyone who upon hello, has higher value than me. Doesn't work.

Was the guy poorer than you growing up? Is he rich now? You should listen to his money advice. If he was a yuppie his opinions are useless.

This sounds real smooth on a forum but is too simplistic and flat out wrong.

In reality, you should try to learn from anyone who is more successful than you.

This is like saying, Floyd Mayweather is a naturally gifted boxer so I can't learn anything from him.

This is defeatist.

You can learn plenty from Floyd. As you can a person who was born rich or a person who was born with Game.

Learn from everyone.

[EisenBarde]

Not to hate, Westcoast, but the best are those who can learn to pick up a thing or two from just about anybody. G has it right.

As much as we make this a science, game is truly an art.

In a nutshell it is all about leveraging you best against your worst qualities, but I can pick up on small details by guys in a different league than I am with complete humility. The nice thing is that I can test their IDEAS and tailor what works for ME.

You are completely right that adapting the methods of the tall dark and handsome types doesnt work for everybody, but there ARE subtleties which will associate you positively in the hindbrain with those tall dark and handsome types.

[speakeasy]

I don't think the boxer/player analogy works. Some guys may be naturally athletic and strong, but nobody is born knowing how to box. You still have to train hard in the gym, you still have to practice your bobs and weaves and learn combos and footwork. You have to learn that stuff. The pretty boy who just lays girls that throw the pussy at him doesn't have anything to teach me other than "don't say anything stupid and bounce her to your pad". Mick Jagger has fucked many women. What am I supposed to learn from him? To start a rock band?

[EisenBarde]

But there is such a giant minefield of the WRONG things to do that even with the handicap is can be useful to you.

Tiger Woods is waaay beyond how good I'll ever be at golf, but there's still things I can pick up on from his approach that I can apply to my thursday night twilight league.

[WestCoast]

We can agree to disagree. No where in my statement did I say "nothing is to be learned from the person as a whole".

If someone grew up rich, maybe I can take his advice on boxing. Maybe if someone grew up with natural good looks I can take his advice on lifting. Etc. you guys took my my statement out of context. You have to be able to distinguish between talent and execution, sports are tough examples by definition since pros have both (agree with speakeasy).

It's a decent rule of thumb, does this person or did this person have to overcome more? If yes listen up. Always exceptions, but "exception to the rule" type comments are usually useless.

(04-28-2013 08:15 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 01:30 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

This is true.

I take no game advice from anyone who upon hello, has higher value than me. Doesn't work.

Was the guy poorer than you growing up? Is he rich now? You should listen to his money advice. If he was a yuppie his opinions are useless.

This sounds real smooth on a forum but is too simplistic and flat out wrong.

In reality, you should try to learn from anyone who is more successful than you.

This is like saying, Floyd Mayweather is a naturally gifted boxer so I can't learn anything from him.

This is defeatist.

You can learn plenty from Floyd. As you can a person who was born rich or a person who was born with Game.

Learn from everyone.

[thegmanifesto]

(04-28-2013 08:50 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I don't think the boxer/player analogy works. Some guys may be naturally athletic and strong, but nobody is born knowing how to box. You still have to train hard in the gym, you still have to practice your bobs and weaves and learn combos and footwork. You have to learn that stuff. The pretty boy who just lays girls that throw the pussy at him doesn't have anything to teach me other than "don't say anything stupid and bounce her to your pad". Mick Jagger has fucked many women. What am I supposed to learn from him? To start a rock band?

Of course it does.

Who is born knowing how to pick up girls?

[jmoney29]

So what quality of woman would this guy need to hook-up with in order to verify that he has more game then you, considering the fact that he is already getting better looking women?Does he just show up with over-sized shit-stained T-shirts and get quality tail?

[WestCoast]

A guy who is born 7' tall is generally better suited for the center position in basketball.

A good looking man is generally better suited for picking up women.

(04-28-2013 09:05 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 08:50 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I don't think the boxer/player analogy works. Some guys may be naturally athletic and strong, but nobody is born knowing how to box. You still have to train hard in the gym, you still have to practice your bobs and weaves and learn combos and footwork. You have to learn that stuff. The pretty boy who just lays girls that throw the pussy at him doesn't have anything to teach me other than "don't say anything stupid and bounce her to your pad". Mick Jagger has fucked many women. What am I supposed to learn from him? To start a rock band?

Of course it does.

Who is born knowing how to pick up girls?

[WestCoast]

(04-28-2013 09:09 PM)jmoney29 Wrote:  

So what quality of woman would this guy need to hook-up with in order to verify that he has more game then you, considering the fact that he is already getting better looking women?Does he just show up with over-sized shit-stained T-shirts and get quality tail?

Another easy one, give the person more game advice that works. That is all.

Ex: my friend uses every single line I use verbatim. However, he can get away with stuff like this: "will you marry me we would have hot kids". If he can come back to me and give me better tips so to speak, I lose. I have no hate on the guy at all. We are pretty much brothers, it is what it is. This is also why you want to roll solo if you're going with a guy who is going to have a higher filled glass. Simple rules. No need to sell dreams here.

It's almost more fun to help guys out who have better looks than you, they will perform incredibly well, the curve is steeper. If you are short fat and ugly, you got a long time before you can start seeing gains. If your shit is together, you just need tweaks. No different than fixing a car. If you got a Ferrari and a shitty driver, all you need to learn is how to drive. If you got pinto...lots of work to do.

[speakeasy]

(04-28-2013 09:05 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 08:50 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I don't think the boxer/player analogy works. Some guys may be naturally athletic and strong, but nobody is born knowing how to box. You still have to train hard in the gym, you still have to practice your bobs and weaves and learn combos and footwork. You have to learn that stuff. The pretty boy who just lays girls that throw the pussy at him doesn't have anything to teach me other than "don't say anything stupid and bounce her to your pad". Mick Jagger has fucked many women. What am I supposed to learn from him? To start a rock band?

Of course it does.

Who is born knowing how to pick up girls?

If the women are approaching you, then it's not picking up. They are picking YOU up. It's like the difference between a spider catching what lands in its web versus a lion that has to learn to chase down and tackle prey because no zebra is going to approach a lion and offer itself.

[WestCoast]

^that's another good example.

It's funny though because my buddy tries to help his old high school friends with "game". He couldn't get it going because when he says hello to a girl they immediately engage in conversation. When his friends open its one word responses.... game has just begun but he has no idea what that feels like. Generally speaking attractive men have no clue as to how to win a woman over, the girl is already somewhat interested at hello.

If you can get back turns and one word answers and still power through that's much tougher.

This is yet another reason why, if asked for help, I am ruthless when it comes to looks and venue choice. Clothes, color, measurements, hairstyle, body language, tone, what venue? Why? What day? Where? Whose in the venue?whats the floor plan?.

If you're going to play the game, play to win.

[thegmanifesto]

(04-28-2013 09:18 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 09:05 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 08:50 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I don't think the boxer/player analogy works. Some guys may be naturally athletic and strong, but nobody is born knowing how to box. You still have to train hard in the gym, you still have to practice your bobs and weaves and learn combos and footwork. You have to learn that stuff. The pretty boy who just lays girls that throw the pussy at him doesn't have anything to teach me other than "don't say anything stupid and bounce her to your pad". Mick Jagger has fucked many women. What am I supposed to learn from him? To start a rock band?

Of course it does.

Who is born knowing how to pick up girls?

If the women are approaching you, then it's not picking up. They are picking YOU up. It's like the difference between a spider catching what lands in its web versus a lion that has to learn to chase down and tackle prey because no zebra is going to approach a lion and offer itself.

Then learn from how they close.

You can learn from anyone who is successful.

Not doing so is only hurting yourself.

Furthermore, who is born knowing how to make money?

[WestCoast]

Money is an obscure one. Resources can determine information. So you're much more likely to pick stuff up from a rich person (if you focus on thinking pattern).

Learning how to close has the same issues as the open, if she thinks you're hot she's much more likely to go home with you anyway. Same filter process, are you learning more from them on picking up or whatever you want to call it, if not you likely have better game than them. That simple. If I meet an uglier guy than me pulling the same quality, I'll be shutting the hell up and taking notes.

So maybe you learn how to dress from the guy, but the social skill bar is lower since it is not needed. This is no different for women, the hottest ones can be complete cunts and guys will still fawn over her. Notice the chubby girls are usually the ones with the best *personalities* they try to make up for their ugliness. (This used to be the case but now in America they are all entitled but should get the idea across).

[All or Nothing]

(04-28-2013 07:27 PM)houston Wrote:  

Tall, good looking guys will probably have some of the worst game and will have a breakdown if thrown in a club or spot where they wont be any girl's type.

Disagree.

Good looking guys still have to have the essentials if they want to get laid. The essentials being:
-Be socially normal
-Be able to hold a (somewhat) interesting conversation
-Be able to physically escalate
-Be funny
-Know how to close

Quote:

I can't imagine most tall, pretty model types being able to go out during the day and trying to get numbers. You still have to be able to hold a conversation and approach like everyone else.

You would be amazed at how easy it can be during the day time. Making eye contact alone with girls gets them thinking about you.

At a coffee shop, I made eye contact with this cute girl at a couple times over a couple days. Later on she offered me a seat at her table, so I could talk to her.

Made eye contact with this hot-as-balls girl a couple times while working on school project with some group members. When I left to get some cheap food for lunch, she walked up to them, and gave her number and name to them, so I could contact her.