I have to add that as well to my previous post ... I'll be nice about it too: The "she became a grade-A hedge fund blah blah blah blah blah making six figures" seemed way out there, in line with what I was talking about exaggerator style. You had a 19 year old model who became Jamie Dimon's equal, beyond cooking/cleaning/blowing you on command, and progressively you lost it all over a LONG period of time in which you didn't have kids with a supposed 2nd/3rd worlder for whom that kind of thing is a big deal (very aware on depreciating value and looks)? Man, that shit just doesn't fit to me. Still.
I married a Latvian
As someone who is going to begin looking for an LTR in EE, I have to admit this thread is kind of depressing. In one of the OP's posts on the previous page, he says "If we'd have had kids, I think we would still be together" meaning, kids help marriages stay together.
Then he says "many marriages with kids fail because of the stress of the kids". Screwed both ways in a sense.
I'm wondering to what extent his wife got Westernized and as such, got ideas to leave (I can do better/don't need a man/etc). Probably quite a bit.
So what is one to do with the high rates of divorce, even amongst the 'traditional' EE girls? Many will say "don't get married ever" or "don't move to a western country with your woman" For those with established careers and lives, moving and living in a FSU country or even other non-westernized country, is easier said than done. It's like you're going to all that effort to live somewhere for the sole reason you're afraid your wife will divorce you if you dare bring her back to the USA for a life there.
As for the "I'll never get married route" well, we've all heard that a man's primal need is to 'spread his seed' amongst as many fertile women as possible to propagate his genes. The logic being your genetic legacy lives on after you.
So, besides the fun of sex and the thrill of it (which of course is a Great reason) what's the point of 'spreading your seed' if you die without any successfully planted seed? i.e.. children to carry on your legacy?
It's like, I banged hundreds of women and have zero "little me's" left on the planet to keep living on when I'm gone. In a sense, it's meaningless unless you eventually have kids, like you were shooting blanks your whole life.
In that scenario, you'll be an old man but with no woman and no children or grandkids. Just memories.
That said, I look forward to visiting EE and the potential of success.
Then he says "many marriages with kids fail because of the stress of the kids". Screwed both ways in a sense.
I'm wondering to what extent his wife got Westernized and as such, got ideas to leave (I can do better/don't need a man/etc). Probably quite a bit.
So what is one to do with the high rates of divorce, even amongst the 'traditional' EE girls? Many will say "don't get married ever" or "don't move to a western country with your woman" For those with established careers and lives, moving and living in a FSU country or even other non-westernized country, is easier said than done. It's like you're going to all that effort to live somewhere for the sole reason you're afraid your wife will divorce you if you dare bring her back to the USA for a life there.
As for the "I'll never get married route" well, we've all heard that a man's primal need is to 'spread his seed' amongst as many fertile women as possible to propagate his genes. The logic being your genetic legacy lives on after you.
So, besides the fun of sex and the thrill of it (which of course is a Great reason) what's the point of 'spreading your seed' if you die without any successfully planted seed? i.e.. children to carry on your legacy?
It's like, I banged hundreds of women and have zero "little me's" left on the planet to keep living on when I'm gone. In a sense, it's meaningless unless you eventually have kids, like you were shooting blanks your whole life.
In that scenario, you'll be an old man but with no woman and no children or grandkids. Just memories.
That said, I look forward to visiting EE and the potential of success.
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#BallsWin
Quote: (05-31-2017 10:38 AM)BassPlayaYo Wrote:
What doesn't quite square is this notion that she's making six figures but you in the end there's a fight over money that she knows is not her own. I also hear you saying you became such a "loser" that she had no choice but to bolt. What do you think is the one thing you could have done for yourself that would have made things different?
Seconded. I would also like to know what OP thinks he did wrong in the marriage, and what she wanted him to change.
My read is that OP is simultaneously pedestalizing her and beating himself up. $10 says that whatever she wanted him to change wasn't the real problem and that she just found a reason.
Hidey-ho, RVFerinos!
I will try to tackle all 4 last posts in one. In a divorce with no kids and no house, we sold the house and were renting currently, you total up all assets including retirement, it doesn't matter how much each person is making its just an asset division with no kids and no house, so the lawyers literally make a spreadsheet and you horse trade until it gets to 50/50 so very rarely does one person not have to give something to the other person asset wise because very rarely is it gonna come up 50/50. Its the law, pretty much 50/50 so it isn't one person trying to take from the other person, but you have the option to fold to the 50/50, or you have a prenump, the prenump was pretty much useless bc in the end we were virtually equal in assets and the differential was small, and I will be honest she was willing to fight for every single penny until the end, the differential was slowly getting destroyed by lawyer fees so I just said F it in the end bc I got sick of paying lawyers and the money was so small I chose to end it.
What could I have done differently? I could have put some effort into the marriage the last 3-4 years when things got a bit rocky. Honestly, my biggest regret is that I put zero effort into helping things improve. She never gave up tried for years, she went to counseling herself, etc. begged me to go I refused. Bottomline is I never ever thought she would leave so I saw no incentive to put any real effort into saving things. I took her and the marriage for granted. If I really knew that she would really possibly leave, I would have put forth some effort. That's my biggest regret. Yeah, I wish now I would have put some effort forth but I didn't and she wanted it to work so badly I figured she'd never leave. Bottomline, I was kind of dumb.
Making 6 figures does not equate with Jamie Dimon, most people in finance after 2-3 years are making 6 figures. She really changed when she got into the work world, she became more westernized, but she still cooked from scratch, cleaned, she even cut the grass without me asking sometimes and she was great in bed. She worked very hard in life and in work. She succeeded in work because of her hard work, discipline, and determination, yeah I paid for her school and mentored her but she did the work and she succeeded and she got promotions and made more and more money. There are multitudes of lazy Americans that get their school paid for get plenty of mentoring and don't do anything with their lives. She wanted kids for years, I was the one that put it off, I was all about both of our careers and the money, and with her being 10 years younger, I figured I had the time to put off having kids. And now at 44 I kind of figured out I waited too long, but as I mentioned before, part of me wonders whether I really wanted kids. Yeah, if you have kids the marriage is more likely to last, 66% of divorced couples are childless, but if you are just staying together for the kids, what kind of life is that for you. Yes, it also incentivizes you to work at it harder, but man I know quite a few couples that hate each other but stay together for the kids, and studies show the stress of a kid lowers happiness, believe me I researched it big, because I wondered for weeks after she left whether I should have had a kid. So yeah, having kids keeps the marriage together, but maybe for the wrong reasons, for the kids at the expense of the parents more often than not it seems. IMHO anyway and the stats are pretty telling.
Robreke, you said the thread was kind of depressing bc you were looking for LTR in EE. I don't think it should be discouraging, she was a damn good wife, all of her friends that married Americans are still with them, and I shoulder most of the blame for it not working, just needed to put a bit of effort forth and I didn't. It's all what you want, I didn't want a stay at home Mom/homemaker, I paid for her school bc I wanted a wife that had a good job and made cash and contributed financially, and that part worked out. Yes, once she was out in the work world and was making good money at prestigious firms she changed a bit, but that was inevitable. Regarding being westernized, I mean she never gave up her values, she never cheated (that I am aware of), she cooked, cleaned, let me do pretty much anything I wanted and I could go anywhere etc. If anything her values kept her in the marriage the last 3-4 years because she refused to give up on the marriage she didn't want a divorce. Regarding having kids and leaving a legacy, people may disagree with this but once you dead and gone does it really matter what you leave behind, you are gone. Only thing I was ever concerned with was because she was 10 years younger after I was gone and she lived for 15-20 years or whatever after I was gone would she be ok, with the age differential I was never going to be alone but she was going to be after I was gone.
If you think that you don't have to put forth any effort to improve things because you don't think the other person would ever leave, and yeah you arent' totally happy, but as a guy I was content, you get apathetic. She almost left 4-5x the last few years, and I would change for 6 months then revert back to the way I was and the cycle would repeat. It's easy to see it all now, but I missed it then. Again, if I knew she'd really leave I would have put more effort in bc frankly I put zero effort in. So she is sitting there trying her best for 4 years, sending me long emails crying out for help, I ignored them all, refused counseling, just laughed it all off thinking she'd never leave and then she surprised me and left. From the research I have done, it appears that I was pretty par for the course that women cry out for years, the guys ignore it, then feel blindsided by them leaving, that's why I think 75% of divorces are initiated by women. Women reach a point where they give up and once they do, you really cant change their mind. This divorce was years in the making, I just didn't see it or believe that it was possible. I really hate to get into my personal mistakes, but suffice it to say the main reason was I put no effort into improving things. Regardless of what anyone thinks, marriage after 14 years together is sometimes work and both people have to be putting in effort, I wasn't.
If anything, my experience should encourage you all to find good EE women, because she was a good wife, and most of my friends that married EE are together and happy. We all started relationships with them when they were 19-21.
Put on a pedestal, if I would have done that none of this would have happened, she was low maintenance. She stuck it out for years man, she wanted it to work, she didn't want to leave, any American girl would have mailed it in years ago with no kids. IMHO, it doesn't matter where a girl comes from you gotta work a bit at marriage sometimes, and bc our history and me always seeing her as the little girl I saved, I always subconsciously felt she owed me, so I never put in any effort. Once a woman lives in the USA for 15 years makes good money, etc. they are gonna change man and its inevitable. I wanted a successful wife, I got it and didn't change my demeanor towards her in time, really bottomline. Her next guy will see her for the successful professional she is and give her the respect she deserves and has earned. I always saw her as the girl I saved so never respected her the way she should have been, and just took her for granted. I was kind of selfish in the end, but you live and learn in life, but me like so many others only truly learn the hard way. I have learned my lesson, it's just kind of tragic she had to leave for good for me to finally see the light.
What could I have done differently? I could have put some effort into the marriage the last 3-4 years when things got a bit rocky. Honestly, my biggest regret is that I put zero effort into helping things improve. She never gave up tried for years, she went to counseling herself, etc. begged me to go I refused. Bottomline is I never ever thought she would leave so I saw no incentive to put any real effort into saving things. I took her and the marriage for granted. If I really knew that she would really possibly leave, I would have put forth some effort. That's my biggest regret. Yeah, I wish now I would have put some effort forth but I didn't and she wanted it to work so badly I figured she'd never leave. Bottomline, I was kind of dumb.
Making 6 figures does not equate with Jamie Dimon, most people in finance after 2-3 years are making 6 figures. She really changed when she got into the work world, she became more westernized, but she still cooked from scratch, cleaned, she even cut the grass without me asking sometimes and she was great in bed. She worked very hard in life and in work. She succeeded in work because of her hard work, discipline, and determination, yeah I paid for her school and mentored her but she did the work and she succeeded and she got promotions and made more and more money. There are multitudes of lazy Americans that get their school paid for get plenty of mentoring and don't do anything with their lives. She wanted kids for years, I was the one that put it off, I was all about both of our careers and the money, and with her being 10 years younger, I figured I had the time to put off having kids. And now at 44 I kind of figured out I waited too long, but as I mentioned before, part of me wonders whether I really wanted kids. Yeah, if you have kids the marriage is more likely to last, 66% of divorced couples are childless, but if you are just staying together for the kids, what kind of life is that for you. Yes, it also incentivizes you to work at it harder, but man I know quite a few couples that hate each other but stay together for the kids, and studies show the stress of a kid lowers happiness, believe me I researched it big, because I wondered for weeks after she left whether I should have had a kid. So yeah, having kids keeps the marriage together, but maybe for the wrong reasons, for the kids at the expense of the parents more often than not it seems. IMHO anyway and the stats are pretty telling.
Robreke, you said the thread was kind of depressing bc you were looking for LTR in EE. I don't think it should be discouraging, she was a damn good wife, all of her friends that married Americans are still with them, and I shoulder most of the blame for it not working, just needed to put a bit of effort forth and I didn't. It's all what you want, I didn't want a stay at home Mom/homemaker, I paid for her school bc I wanted a wife that had a good job and made cash and contributed financially, and that part worked out. Yes, once she was out in the work world and was making good money at prestigious firms she changed a bit, but that was inevitable. Regarding being westernized, I mean she never gave up her values, she never cheated (that I am aware of), she cooked, cleaned, let me do pretty much anything I wanted and I could go anywhere etc. If anything her values kept her in the marriage the last 3-4 years because she refused to give up on the marriage she didn't want a divorce. Regarding having kids and leaving a legacy, people may disagree with this but once you dead and gone does it really matter what you leave behind, you are gone. Only thing I was ever concerned with was because she was 10 years younger after I was gone and she lived for 15-20 years or whatever after I was gone would she be ok, with the age differential I was never going to be alone but she was going to be after I was gone.
If you think that you don't have to put forth any effort to improve things because you don't think the other person would ever leave, and yeah you arent' totally happy, but as a guy I was content, you get apathetic. She almost left 4-5x the last few years, and I would change for 6 months then revert back to the way I was and the cycle would repeat. It's easy to see it all now, but I missed it then. Again, if I knew she'd really leave I would have put more effort in bc frankly I put zero effort in. So she is sitting there trying her best for 4 years, sending me long emails crying out for help, I ignored them all, refused counseling, just laughed it all off thinking she'd never leave and then she surprised me and left. From the research I have done, it appears that I was pretty par for the course that women cry out for years, the guys ignore it, then feel blindsided by them leaving, that's why I think 75% of divorces are initiated by women. Women reach a point where they give up and once they do, you really cant change their mind. This divorce was years in the making, I just didn't see it or believe that it was possible. I really hate to get into my personal mistakes, but suffice it to say the main reason was I put no effort into improving things. Regardless of what anyone thinks, marriage after 14 years together is sometimes work and both people have to be putting in effort, I wasn't.
If anything, my experience should encourage you all to find good EE women, because she was a good wife, and most of my friends that married EE are together and happy. We all started relationships with them when they were 19-21.
Put on a pedestal, if I would have done that none of this would have happened, she was low maintenance. She stuck it out for years man, she wanted it to work, she didn't want to leave, any American girl would have mailed it in years ago with no kids. IMHO, it doesn't matter where a girl comes from you gotta work a bit at marriage sometimes, and bc our history and me always seeing her as the little girl I saved, I always subconsciously felt she owed me, so I never put in any effort. Once a woman lives in the USA for 15 years makes good money, etc. they are gonna change man and its inevitable. I wanted a successful wife, I got it and didn't change my demeanor towards her in time, really bottomline. Her next guy will see her for the successful professional she is and give her the respect she deserves and has earned. I always saw her as the girl I saved so never respected her the way she should have been, and just took her for granted. I was kind of selfish in the end, but you live and learn in life, but me like so many others only truly learn the hard way. I have learned my lesson, it's just kind of tragic she had to leave for good for me to finally see the light.
What exactly this "effort" that you talk about?
Quote: (05-31-2017 12:03 PM)BassPlayaYo Wrote:
What exactly this "effort" that you talk about?
Trying to be nicer to her, I was pretty much a jerk the last few years, going to counseling for an hour a week, even if it didn't help it would have showed effort and she would have really appreciated it. Main thing is being nicer, we reached a point where we didn't even celebrate birthdays, name days, never did anything nice for each other, etc. Main thing is if you aren't happy, you have to do something to change the situation, and I knew we weren't totally happy, but I didn't care I had everything the way I wanted, so instead of thinking of her happiness too, I was just concerned with my own, and that attitude is a recipe for doom in the long run in a marriage. You have to be concerned with the other person's happiness too, not just your own. IMHO, I know that now, wish I knew that then.
Quote: (05-31-2017 12:10 PM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:
Quote: (05-31-2017 12:03 PM)BassPlayaYo Wrote:
What exactly this "effort" that you talk about?
Trying to be nicer to her, I was pretty much a jerk the last few years, going to counseling for an hour a week, even if it didn't help it would have showed effort and she would have really appreciated it. Main thing is being nicer, we reached a point where we didn't even celebrate birthdays, name days, never did anything nice for each other, etc. Main thing is if you aren't happy, you have to do something to change the situation, and I knew we weren't totally happy, but I didn't care I had everything the way I wanted, so instead of thinking of her happiness too, I was just concerned with my own, and that attitude is a recipe for doom in the long run in a marriage. You have to be concerned with the other person's happiness too, not just your own. IMHO, I know that now, wish I knew that then.
Thanks for sharing, this can't be easy. Seconding what you say, a marriage takes work and awareness of what your partner's needs are as well as your own.
Similar story for my first marriage, except we had kids. For what it's worth, me and most of my friends who have remarried are infinitely happier the second time around since we know what we need/want/can not tolerate, and can communicate that better in a way that is sustainable for the long term.
Thing is when a marriage fails, typically there are so many reasons that the marriage fails and usually it involves fault from both parties. Even in cases of infidelity, there are usually so many small events which eventually lead to one or sometimes both people cheating. I know its easy to blame the female for everything that goes wrong in a marriage but usually its both people who fuck up. I would agree that Michael's wife going to work for big money probably was a key turning point in his marriage but I don't think she was running a con on him, that's just paranoia. No chick has the patience to run a con for 15 years so the fact that his marriage lasted 15 years tells me it was a love marriage that just failed. Girls that run these cons that some guys are thinking happened here will only stay married for 2-3 years max before bailing, not 15. His paying for her school and mentoring her does not constitute a con or equates to prostitution. Funny how guys will call this a con but have no problem getting notches from fat chicks, nothing special sluts or ugly chicks and then brag about their prowess at the game. In my mind, fucking a fat chick is a negative notch, slump buster or not.
Robreke that is the dilemma facing most men these days. Do they get the career chick so they won't get stuck paying all the bills and thus can get a more equitable settlement in a divorce like Michael did or do they get a homemaker who will stay home and raise the kids. In this latter scenario, the man has to pay the majority of the bills and gets hammered in a divorce in every which way. Or the dilemma of finding a foreign chick and bringing her here so she can get corrupted by the culture as inevitably happens. Not an easy choice.
Robreke that is the dilemma facing most men these days. Do they get the career chick so they won't get stuck paying all the bills and thus can get a more equitable settlement in a divorce like Michael did or do they get a homemaker who will stay home and raise the kids. In this latter scenario, the man has to pay the majority of the bills and gets hammered in a divorce in every which way. Or the dilemma of finding a foreign chick and bringing her here so she can get corrupted by the culture as inevitably happens. Not an easy choice.
Quote: (05-31-2017 01:31 PM)doc holliday Wrote:
In my mind, fucking a fat chick is a negative notch, slump buster or not.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/mdljqQeEiJcQ0/giphy.gif)
Hidey-ho, RVFerinos!
So if I understand this correctly, you took a normal foreign woman from a normal society, married her, did not legitimize her existence by giving her no children, put her through school for a career, let her work a job outside the house like a man, treated her like a jerk because you had no reason to treat her like a mother due to a lack of children, and you got 12 years out of that?
How is that exactly bad? Not bad at all, all things considered.
![[Image: 404.jpg]](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/352/074/404.jpg)
How is that exactly bad? Not bad at all, all things considered.
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Can't say that I have the most insightful advice regarding the situation but will make these conclusions based on what's been posted:
Many seem to be critiquing how you managed the ex in your previous marriage. "Oh you should've kept her working at home." "Oh she should've been cooking the whole time" etc etc.
My impression however is that you were never ready for marriage. Yes you obviously had your shit together if you brought a girl back to your country, paid for her schooling, and guided her into what was once a happy married life in the US. Yes you were mature though it just seems to me there was plenty of life to still live out before jumping into marriage.
What was your life like before marriage? Were you actively dating? Were you just a work-a-ho-lic that suddenly wanted to get married since you didn't have time for a social life? What was your family & social background before marriage?
Running up the notch count is obviously a fun lifestyle though it's more than just bragging rights. It's about learning how to manage the unexpected bounces of females & keeping them in check for serious relationships you want to pursue in the future. This is obviously applicable not just to foreign women but to marriages with your typical chick from home too.
I still believe it runs deeper than that though. With all due respect, it seems as if you just set aside your personal development (and life) just to rush into a marriage. Others seem to be pinpointing everything on how you mismanaged your chick; I just don't see how it's possible to manage those around you period without being able to fully evaluate your own self first & foremost.
It's obviously not healthy to obsess about this now. All you can do is learn from this and gradually develop as a result...all while "having fun" at same time bc let's face it. You owe it to yourself.
Many seem to be critiquing how you managed the ex in your previous marriage. "Oh you should've kept her working at home." "Oh she should've been cooking the whole time" etc etc.
My impression however is that you were never ready for marriage. Yes you obviously had your shit together if you brought a girl back to your country, paid for her schooling, and guided her into what was once a happy married life in the US. Yes you were mature though it just seems to me there was plenty of life to still live out before jumping into marriage.
What was your life like before marriage? Were you actively dating? Were you just a work-a-ho-lic that suddenly wanted to get married since you didn't have time for a social life? What was your family & social background before marriage?
Running up the notch count is obviously a fun lifestyle though it's more than just bragging rights. It's about learning how to manage the unexpected bounces of females & keeping them in check for serious relationships you want to pursue in the future. This is obviously applicable not just to foreign women but to marriages with your typical chick from home too.
I still believe it runs deeper than that though. With all due respect, it seems as if you just set aside your personal development (and life) just to rush into a marriage. Others seem to be pinpointing everything on how you mismanaged your chick; I just don't see how it's possible to manage those around you period without being able to fully evaluate your own self first & foremost.
It's obviously not healthy to obsess about this now. All you can do is learn from this and gradually develop as a result...all while "having fun" at same time bc let's face it. You owe it to yourself.
Quote: (05-31-2017 01:31 PM)doc holliday Wrote:
or do they get a homemaker who will stay home and raise the kids. In this latter scenario, the man has to pay the majority of the bills and gets hammered in a divorce in every which way.
What about pre nups? If signed by both parties and both using their own attorneys at the beginning, the man must have some added protection. Else, why would they exist?
I'm also curious why the OP didn't default to using his prenup in his divorce instead of going through so much agony. Did he just feel sorry for her and get soft and tear up the prenup, or did the prenup not hold up?
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#BallsWin
Quote: (05-31-2017 04:35 PM)robreke Wrote:
Quote: (05-31-2017 01:31 PM)doc holliday Wrote:
or do they get a homemaker who will stay home and raise the kids. In this latter scenario, the man has to pay the majority of the bills and gets hammered in a divorce in every which way.
What about pre nups? If signed by both parties and both using their own attorneys at the beginning, the man must have some added protection. Else, why would they exist?
I'm also curious why the OP didn't default to using his prenup in his divorce instead of going through so much agony. Did he just feel sorry for her and get soft and tear up the prenup, or did the prenup not hold up?
Yeah I asked him about his prenup up thread so hopefully he can give us more insight into why he didn't enforce it. Pre nups do work. If they're done correctly. It has to be done way before the wedding and she needs to have a lawyer look at it first before she signs it. If you read MC's first post that resurrected this thread, he said he got her a lawyer to review his prenup. So I'd like to know what happened with that aspect of things.
@MichaelCorleone I'm just curious but did was your Latvian wife religious in any way? The reason I ask is because I want to know where did these values(making effort to make marriage work, good wife, cook, clean etc) you claimed she had, originated from?
Did she belong to a faith/church community?
One of the things Ive read is that having a close knit community of like minded people(in this case it would be traditional married family oriented people) with same values such as a church community or an ethnic conclave is a good way to avoid the westernisation of foreign girls. Without this I think it would be quite hard to maintain a traditional monogamous marriage in a place where such value are sadly regarded as obsolete.
By the way did you regularly apply marriage/LTR game to your wife?
Have you read "Married Man Sex Life" by Athol Kay?
The author proposes that the husband must play the role of captain while the wife is the valued second in command. This mean that the wife is respected while also allowing the husband to lead.
This thread in married red pill describes this dynamic quite well:
https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/...ationship/
It might also be worth checking out the marriedredpill thread in general too. Contains some useful information.
I'd really like to know your thoughts @MichaelCorleone. I'm sorry it didn't work out with your wife. I also very interested in LTR/marriage with an EE woman so perhaps you could also give some insight to their mentality/culture.
All the best.
Did she belong to a faith/church community?
One of the things Ive read is that having a close knit community of like minded people(in this case it would be traditional married family oriented people) with same values such as a church community or an ethnic conclave is a good way to avoid the westernisation of foreign girls. Without this I think it would be quite hard to maintain a traditional monogamous marriage in a place where such value are sadly regarded as obsolete.
By the way did you regularly apply marriage/LTR game to your wife?
Have you read "Married Man Sex Life" by Athol Kay?
The author proposes that the husband must play the role of captain while the wife is the valued second in command. This mean that the wife is respected while also allowing the husband to lead.
This thread in married red pill describes this dynamic quite well:
https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/...ationship/
It might also be worth checking out the marriedredpill thread in general too. Contains some useful information.
I'd really like to know your thoughts @MichaelCorleone. I'm sorry it didn't work out with your wife. I also very interested in LTR/marriage with an EE woman so perhaps you could also give some insight to their mentality/culture.
All the best.
Quote: (05-31-2017 04:34 PM)Brosemite Wrote:She was already in the USA as an Au Pair nanny when I met her, so I didn't have to bring her over. I did very well with women prior to getting married, was good looking, made good money, was an athlete, I can talk and have very good game, I always have ever since I was 18 in college, women were never hard for me, it was just a sport that I kind of tired of, family is not the best though the parents have a lot of money so that always helped, I was about 29 or 30 when I got married, yeah I could have kept tearing it up, and maybe I should have, but Ill be honest it was a fairly weird situation. I started to date her when she was 19 and I was 28 and she was living with a rich family the year after her Au Pair program was over, the family she was with was completely using her and taking advantage of her, though comically she is friends with them now, she was getting paid $150 a week to clean the house, take care of 3 kids, bring them to school then go to the local community college and take 12 hours of school to keep her student Visa valid, then picking them up most of the time, etc...It was borderline slave labor. I was with her for about 6 months when frankly I was sick of watching her get treated the way she was from the family she lived with. She had to find ways to pay for school at international rates, and put gas in the car that they supplied. It was virtually criminal what some of these rich ladies do to these EE girls. I asked her to move in with me, bc she came to my house every night at 7pm when she got off from working at the family she was getting screwed by anyway. I then started paying for her college at international FN rates, and I told her forget about working, just get straight A's and I told her I'd only pay for any engineering degree or accounting, as those are the only degrees I think have any ROI. She chose accounting and started getting straight A's, it was sad to me that she beat all the Americans, but she just outworked them all. She came from a town of about 1500 in Latvia. After we were together for about 1.5 years, we decided to get married, it wasn't a real romantic thing, I sat back and figured that I was probably going to be with this girl for the long term, she is hot, works incredibly hard and work ethic was the most important thing to me, is intelligent, does everything around the house, was a fucking dynamo in bed, I loved her, thought she would be a spectacular wife, and I was eating international rates for school which is almost double out of state. She grew up in a very religious family so her values were nailed down. I married her and got in-state tuition, she graduated with a 4.0 in accounting and we were off from there. Yes it was a bit of a business decision, otherwise I would have probably not gotten married and just lived with her until we wanted to have kids. We were together for 14 years and married for around 12.5. I was the one that did all of the paperwork for citizenship etc. I wanted her to have all the opportunities that were possible, and the first 7-8 years things were really good, then you can pick up above how it went from there. As mentioned before, it was more like a Father - Daughter, or brother - sister dynamic relationship wise and we fought like brothers and sisters sometimes bc were are both extremely type A aggressive people, though she never really bloomed as a type A aggressive person until she started working, not like a husband wife relationship which it should have been.
Can't say that I have the most insightful advice regarding the situation but will make these conclusions based on what's been posted:
Many seem to be critiquing how you managed the ex in your previous marriage. "Oh you should've kept her working at home." "Oh she should've been cooking the whole time" etc etc.
My impression however is that you were never ready for marriage. Yes you obviously had your shit together if you brought a girl back to your country, paid for her schooling, and guided her into what was once a happy married life in the US. Yes you were mature though it just seems to me there was plenty of life to still live out before jumping into marriage.
What was your life like before marriage? Were you actively dating? Were you just a work-a-ho-lic that suddenly wanted to get married since you didn't have time for a social life? What was your family & social background before marriage?
Running up the notch count is obviously a fun lifestyle though it's more than just bragging rights. It's about learning how to manage the unexpected bounces of females & keeping them in check for serious relationships you want to pursue in the future. This is obviously applicable not just to foreign women but to marriages with your typical chick from home too.
I still believe it runs deeper than that though. With all due respect, it seems as if you just set aside your personal development (and life) just to rush into a marriage. Others seem to be pinpointing everything on how you mismanaged your chick; I just don't see how it's possible to manage those around you period without being able to fully evaluate your own self first & foremost.
It's obviously not healthy to obsess about this now. All you can do is learn from this and gradually develop as a result...all while "having fun" at same time bc let's face it. You owe it to yourself.
Regarding the financials - Without getting into specifics, the fight in court got ugly and dirty and it wasn't as much about money but between two stubborn people over principles. The lawyers are truly evil to a point that I could not believe, I thought I was in a movie at some points and will forever have a bad taste in my mouth from what these lawyers do and how they try to literally destroy people. Her lawyer was a virtual attack dog, and some of the accusations that got hurled were almost unbelievable. Her worst qualities were her stubbornness and temper, and those are not the attributes you want in your opponent in a divorce, that only benefits the lawyers. We ended up paying the lawyers about 20% of our total assets, which was utter insanity. Also, my lawyer put it perfectly when I asked her WTF is going on? My lawyer said, "It doesn't matter how educated you are, it doesn't matter what your job is or how smart you are, people act like irrational lunatics sometimes in divorces." I folded because the stress was killing me and it looked like it was killing her more, and to be honest, I still loved her and I hated to see her so miserable, and I felt guilty for the husband I was the last few years, and I knew that she put in her time and never gave up for years and was a good wife. It wasn't about a prenump or money really, I won't get any more specific, sorry. So yeah, I guess you can say I got soft at the end, I wanted her to walk away thinking she had won and maybe a little happier, because yeah I thought she deserved it and had earned it. There are a lot of shitty wives out there man and she was a good wife. Which in the end I think was a mistake, because I don't think she appreciated it at all, lesson learned there from an EE perspective she might have seen it as weakness, who knows, its over.
Eddie, she was religious and had great values, I never read anything or applied any further game principles once we were married. If I did anything truly wrong it was that I was too controlling, which I regret now, but as some of the people above have stated that have gone through divorce, you learn your lesson, maybe I will apply more tactics if I get married again, but I truly doubt I will ever get married again. I would bet money she is married or at least engaged within 18 months and pregnant soon after (she seemed consumed with her biological clock when she was moving something I was never aware of when we were together, i figured it was just another excuse to justify leaving bc she never mentioned it before), she will probably end up in a poorly chosen rebound relationship because she is a wreck and was with me her whole adult life has zero idea how to be alone, but nothing I can do about that now, she is gone. Eddie your link goes to a reddit site that says guide to a low sex marriage, we never had that issue, she was really into sex.
Brosmite, I keep reading your post above and each time I read it I am thinking you are more and more right possibly.
Quote: (05-31-2017 11:59 AM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:
Put on a pedestal, if I would have done that none of this would have happened, she was low maintenance. She stuck it out for years man, she wanted it to work, she didn't want to leave, any American girl would have mailed it in years ago with no kids. IMHO, it doesn't matter where a girl comes from you gotta work a bit at marriage sometimes, and bc our history and me always seeing her as the little girl I saved, I always subconsciously felt she owed me, so I never put in any effort. Once a woman lives in the USA for 15 years makes good money, etc. they are gonna change man and its inevitable. I wanted a successful wife, I got it and didn't change my demeanor towards her in time, really bottomline. Her next guy will see her for the successful professional she is and give her the respect she deserves and has earned. I always saw her as the girl I saved so never respected her the way she should have been, and just took her for granted. I was kind of selfish in the end, but you live and learn in life, but me like so many others only truly learn the hard way. I have learned my lesson, it's just kind of tragic she had to leave for good for me to finally see the light.
Don't think jariel would have tolerated this shameless degree of SIMPING.
same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
Feeling like she owed you is a terrible mindset to have. This is a relationship we are talking about, not a seeking arrangement type of thing. You were prob better off doing that, may be a lot cheaper.She shouldn't be getting respect from others just because she has a good job.
I thought the whole point of finding a ee girl is not to find a type a estj character...
I thought the whole point of finding a ee girl is not to find a type a estj character...
The 'real' Michael Corleone is spinning in his grave reading this.
Americans are dreamers too
Cheers guys, thanks for all the responses. Hopefully some of my experiences and mistakes can be learned from.
Can you specifically tell us what went wrong after the 7 year mark? What led up to her seeking out counselling?
Quote: (05-31-2017 08:42 PM)the-dream Wrote:
Can you specifically tell us what went wrong after the 7 year mark? What led up to her seeking out counselling?
She started making real money and the dynamics of the relationship changed and I didn't adjust, it led to conflict and bc we were both type A aggressive people the fights weren't the best. Counseling was to help the marriage, she went, I refused to go, I should have went, but was too macho to do it.
Quote: (05-31-2017 08:05 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:
Quote: (05-31-2017 11:59 AM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:
Put on a pedestal, if I would have done that none of this would have happened, she was low maintenance. She stuck it out for years man, she wanted it to work, she didn't want to leave, any American girl would have mailed it in years ago with no kids. IMHO, it doesn't matter where a girl comes from you gotta work a bit at marriage sometimes, and bc our history and me always seeing her as the little girl I saved, I always subconsciously felt she owed me, so I never put in any effort. Once a woman lives in the USA for 15 years makes good money, etc. they are gonna change man and its inevitable. I wanted a successful wife, I got it and didn't change my demeanor towards her in time, really bottomline. Her next guy will see her for the successful professional she is and give her the respect she deserves and has earned. I always saw her as the girl I saved so never respected her the way she should have been, and just took her for granted. I was kind of selfish in the end, but you live and learn in life, but me like so many others only truly learn the hard way. I have learned my lesson, it's just kind of tragic she had to leave for good for me to finally see the light.
Don't think jariel would have tolerated this shameless degree of SIMPING.
Simpin' ain't easy
Quote: (05-31-2017 08:05 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:
Quote: (05-31-2017 11:59 AM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:
Put on a pedestal, if I would have done that none of this would have happened, she was low maintenance. She stuck it out for years man, she wanted it to work, she didn't want to leave, any American girl would have mailed it in years ago with no kids. IMHO, it doesn't matter where a girl comes from you gotta work a bit at marriage sometimes, and bc our history and me always seeing her as the little girl I saved, I always subconsciously felt she owed me, so I never put in any effort. Once a woman lives in the USA for 15 years makes good money, etc. they are gonna change man and its inevitable. I wanted a successful wife, I got it and didn't change my demeanor towards her in time, really bottomline. Her next guy will see her for the successful professional she is and give her the respect she deserves and has earned. I always saw her as the girl I saved so never respected her the way she should have been, and just took her for granted. I was kind of selfish in the end, but you live and learn in life, but me like so many others only truly learn the hard way. I have learned my lesson, it's just kind of tragic she had to leave for good for me to finally see the light.
Don't think jariel would have tolerated this shameless degree of SIMPING.
Oh wow, look who crawled out from under the rocks to bless us with his infinite wisdom. Been waiting for you to educate us on your marital alphaness and all you can come up with is Jariel?! Jariel? The pretend alpha who hasn't posted here in over a year and talked a big game while being too deathly afraid to meet anyone? Dude you can do better than that. You should have invoked the names of some other famous fake alphas like G Manifesto or NASA Test Pilot. Talk about SIMPING.
Quote: (05-31-2017 10:25 PM)doc holliday Wrote:
Quote: (05-31-2017 08:05 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:
Quote: (05-31-2017 11:59 AM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:
Put on a pedestal, if I would have done that none of this would have happened, she was low maintenance. She stuck it out for years man, she wanted it to work, she didn't want to leave, any American girl would have mailed it in years ago with no kids. IMHO, it doesn't matter where a girl comes from you gotta work a bit at marriage sometimes, and bc our history and me always seeing her as the little girl I saved, I always subconsciously felt she owed me, so I never put in any effort. Once a woman lives in the USA for 15 years makes good money, etc. they are gonna change man and its inevitable. I wanted a successful wife, I got it and didn't change my demeanor towards her in time, really bottomline. Her next guy will see her for the successful professional she is and give her the respect she deserves and has earned. I always saw her as the girl I saved so never respected her the way she should have been, and just took her for granted. I was kind of selfish in the end, but you live and learn in life, but me like so many others only truly learn the hard way. I have learned my lesson, it's just kind of tragic she had to leave for good for me to finally see the light.
Don't think jariel would have tolerated this shameless degree of SIMPING.
Oh wow, look who crawled out from under the rocks to bless us with his infinite wisdom. Been waiting for you to educate us on your marital alphaness and all you can come up with is Jariel?! Jariel? The pretend alpha who hasn't posted here in over a year and talked a big game while being too deathly afraid to meet anyone? Dude you can do better than that. You should have invoked the names of some other famous fake alphas like G Manifesto or NASA Test Pilot. Talk about SIMPING.
Yeah everybody knows the damage in this situation has already been done. There is absolutely ZERO intrinsic value in stating the obvious while egging on OP.
I really don't see how this "infinite wisdom" offers any insight besides an obvious cheap shot...especially since these wise posts have rarely ever been usefully applied to the subject of game on RVF.
12-15 years is a very good run considering how short most marriages are. I can understand some sadness, but if you decide for a second run you'll be way better. Few people succeed at anything on the first try. Sorry for the trite advice, but I don't really see why dudes are jumping on you for this considering most of the guys in this thread have never even been married. It's one thing to wear the superman cape and another thing to fly.
I will be checking my PMs weekly, so you can catch me there. I will not be posting.
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