[CleanSlate]

I'm with doc holliday on this one. I'm not sensing a troll here.

OP, sorry to hear about what happened. As I know first hand, divorce sucks. Even without kids. But it sounds like you are taking it in stride.

Keep your chin up, partner. There is life after divorce.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(05-29-2017 11:03 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

I'm not getting how you think this is a troll post. The OP is just telling us his experiences of finding an EE girl and being married for 15 years and how it failed in the end. You may not appreciate his experience but at least he's giving us his raw, unadulterated story which a lot of guys here can benefit from, especially given the EE angle which is of particular interest to members of this forum. If you have experience in a marriage, I'd love to hear your story. Otherwise, let guys who have actually gone through it tell their story whether it suits you or not.

doc holliday, read these quotes again:

(05-29-2017 04:11 PM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:  

I always kind of saw her as the girl that I saved mentored and built instead of seeing her for a successful professional that she was now

...

if you get lucky enough to get a young beautiful hard working EE girl, for many years she will depend on you for everything, but then if she starts to succeed in life, you need to be able to realize the situation is now different from the little girl of yesteryear and treat her as the equal that she now commands and deserves

Anyone who says things like that is trolling the forum, by definition. I don't care if the "story" is true. He is trying to put over the idea that some bitch who dumped him after 14 years and robbed him of all his money (by his own words he "folded out of guilt on the financials") was, in fact a "spectacular" wife and the only problem was that he didn't treat this amazing female "professional" with the deference that she "commands and deserves". If that's not trolling, I don't know what is.

[Jetset]

(05-30-2017 08:18 AM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Anyone who says things like that is trolling the forum, by definition. I don't care if the "story" is true. He is trying to put over the idea that some bitch who dumped him after 14 years and robbed him of all his money (by his own words he "folded out of guilt on the financials") was, in fact a "spectacular" wife and the only problem was that he didn't treat this amazing female "professional" with the deference that she "commands and deserves". If that's not trolling, I don't know what is.

I'm don't think he's intentionally trolling, but I agree with the bigger picture. This would actually appear to be a cautionary tale in which the OP believed he had found an exception to the rules, and then the rules were swiftly enforced with such ferocity that he - and maybe she - did not even realize what happened.

From his first couple of posts: "I paid for her college before we were married which I will b honest worried me a bit, I worried that I was being worked, but now we r married for 10 years, she is a citizen and it all worked out....I had my doubts whether I was being taken, so I had the prenup and then after 2 years of marriage and having the green card, she got her US citizenship. Again, I will be honest it was in the back of my mind will she get her citizenship and skate, u can't help but think about it....how is anyone going to sue u in divorce when they have no legal standing to be here?"

From his last couple of posts: "I tell you though once the lawyers got involved, what was amicable became ugly to a point that I couldn't have never imagined....I am the main reason the divorce occurred....she stuck it out the last 3-4 years really wanting things to work, but as a typical guy I figured she'll never leave if she was going to she would have years ago....I think she sat back and made a hardened business decision....I was nice even helped moved her out, I figured she had earned it. I even folded in the divorce out of guilt and let her have almost everything she wanted, because I knew she honestly was a good wife, and I couldn't have asked anymore from her. I folded out of guilt on the financials, I am sure I will regret that someday. I also learned that Divorce Lawyers really are evil monsters."

She wants kids but leaves right before they have some? These posts are four years apart. If somebody was playing the long con here, I don't think it was the OP.

She has a college education, citizenship, and a clean break with no baggage. She will now get pregnant, and she probably has a candidate in mind, if not in vag, already. A forensic search of her smartphone would no doubt be revealing.



The confirmed wisdom to work on yourself and build a life that women desperately want to be a part of instead of trying to save a hoe to earn her good graces is again confirmed.

Sorry for what you went through here, OP, but thank you for telling us about it.

[doc holliday]

He's not trolling. Ok, he's reached some blue pill conclusions which most guys, myself included, don't really agree with and yes he perhaps should have fought harder for his money. But Lizard, unless you've gone through a divorce which maybe you have, I don't know, you have no idea how hellishly difficult the process can be. Corleone said it himself how awful if was. Many guys just give up after fighting for so long, the divorce process is just that painful. That's how most guys lose their kids and money, by getting beat down by the system. Rather than fostering a discussion and disagreeing with his conclusion, you just want kick a guy when he's down and call him a troll. Now tell me exactly what purpose you're serving here, other than to feed your ego.

[rudebwoy]

Moral of the story - keep a hoe a hoe.

Don't save them.

[Kid Twist]

I know and respect doc's thoughts a lot, but I just stumbled across this thread and let me throw out what doesn't "mesh" for me:

1. The guy gets a "model" EE/foreign wife, is aware of how poor American women are at first post, then he proceeds to undo all the raising they did over there and transform her into a career woman? If she was 19 when they met he just spend the last 15 doing exactly the opposite of what he supposedly loved about her before that. Over all that time, it didn't occur to him to have kids with her? Not only is that the goal, it is an intrinsic protection on shit, and disables the career mentality for the family one.

2. The english is solid, but there is something about the way he is typing or using his storytelling that is suspiciously informal. Just a gut reaction, admittedly.
3. Circumstantial evidence lurker, first time poster, resurrecting the thread at random 3 years later, a lot of it is intense ...

My quick analysis is that the story has an underlying basis which is probably true, but the details and side stories are greatly exaggerated.

[Nordwand]

As I have said before, the long game is real. Trust your instincts, no matter how far fetched your suspicions are.

[doc holliday]

(05-30-2017 12:36 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

I know and respect doc's thoughts a lot, but I just stumbled across this thread and let me throw out what doesn't "mesh" for me:

1. The guy gets a "model" EE/foreign wife, is aware of how poor American women are at first post, then he proceeds to undo all the raising they did over there and transform her into a career woman? If she was 19 when they met he just spend the last 15 doing exactly the opposite of what he supposedly loved about her before that. Over all that time, it didn't occur to him to have kids with her? Not only is that the goal, it is an intrinsic protection on shit, and disables the career mentality for the family one.

2. The english is solid, but there is something about the way he is typing or using his storytelling that is suspiciously informal. Just a gut reaction, admittedly.
3. Circumstantial evidence lurker, first time poster, resurrecting the thread at random 3 years later, a lot of it is intense ...

My quick analysis is that the story has an underlying basis which is probably true, but the details and side stories are greatly exaggerated.

Twist, fair enough, that's a good analysis with some actual thought put into it and well yeah, most people who tell their stories omit key details that would make them be seen in a lesser light, it never fails. It's still worth discussing and dissecting his story. Lets see if the OP responds.

[lonewolf1992]

(04-05-2013 11:40 PM)Sebastian Wrote:  

I am glad it worked out great for you.

But I am not sure if it will be a wise decision for other guys.

They are desperate in their situation so they will marry any decent American guy. (will be pretty easy for them to meet too)
Once they are done with citizenship and know they can just file a divorce and claim half of his assets, how many will stick around if it's not built on pure love?
I am pretty sure those girls won't even look at the guys in the same situation in their country.

You described exactly what I feel towards our 'beloved' colombian girls.

[MichaelCorleone]

There is no trolling here at all, honestly, I wouldn't waste my time or your time with doing stuff like that, like a guy above said my posts were 3 years apart, not looking for any attention etc. Just realized that I had posted this years ago and thought closing the loop and letting people know my mistakes might be able to help someone. Yeah in retrospect, if I would have had kids with her years ago, then based on the stats (66% of divorced couples are childless) there is a high likelihood that we would still be together, but would we have been miserable and is that any way to live life? I have read numerous studies, I have done a ton of research and most marriages happiness falls due to the stress of a child, so unless things were going well, it only makes things worse. I was the one that always pushed off having a kid, always looking for the right time, but sometimes I wonder if I pushed it off constantly because I never wanted kids and was just looking for a reason not to have them and didn't want to admit to myself I didn't want to have them. Regarding her career, yeah I did everything I could to help her with her career bc you never think you are going to get a divorce, so you want to maximize the resources that your family is bringing in. In the end it was a bit of a power struggle over control, and neither one of us wanted to give in and the battle just escalated because we were both Type A aggressive people. The more money she made the older she became the more she wanted equal control, and I just never wanted to give it up. Yeah if I would have never helped her career paid for school guided her along none of that struggle would have ever happened. Regarding divorce, there is nothing in this life except for maybe a death of a loved one that is more painful. The stress is crazy and people get vicious, and the lawyers encourage it, I lost a lot of weight in a very short time. Reading your posts actually help me as, in the same vein I hope I am adding some value. We would have problems and think about breaking up about once a year for last 4 years, I would change for a good 6 months and all was good but then you tend to revert to your subconscious, and then the cycle would happen again the next year, the only way to truly change IMHO is to go through such pain (and a divorce after 14 years together will give you that pain) that your subconscious is actually changed. My biggest mistake was thinking she'd never leave, it was a form of cockiness, and also based on the experience that she almost left multiple times over the years and I just said what I needed to and actually tried to change multiple times. Yeah, if I kept her down for all these years and had kids with her and she wasn't as successful none of this would have happened, I realize that but when you are with someone you don't always try to plan for every contingency of things falling apart, you assume you will be together and try to make the best financial decisions you can for you both. One of the guys above said that you renegotiate things every 10 years, I kind of agree with that especially if you marry someone when they are 21, that same person is going to be very different at age 34, and you have to be willing to renegotiate and if you aren't then if the other person is type A and aggressive you are going to have issues. And yes, I am not giving every detail, because it would be too long, but Ill answer anything honestly if it would help anyone. Just wanted people to learn from me and often you guys have insightful ways of seeing things and they are well thought out, case in point, reading some of the responses here has honestly helped me a bit, so I appreciate that too. I am in like a post mortem at this point I guess looking back at it all ascertaining what happened, why, etc. and just wanted to try and assist you guys since you like EE women as much as I do. And regarding the "long game" i highly doubt this was all planned, you wouldn't sacrifice your whole youth from 19 to 34 and then years after you have a good job, citizenship, education, etc. then just decide to leave Mid 30s. Maybe I am delusional but if that was the end goal, she would have left a few years prior, she was from the country in Latvia, these girls actually want things to work, and try pretty hard, IMHO, I mean none of the other Au Pairs are divorced she came with BUT they all have kids now. I know this seems a bit rambling, I apologize for that, but I am trying to get as much info in with as few words. Plus all details aren't needed for me to get the point across that I was trying to convey.

[questor70]

(05-30-2017 02:22 PM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:  

if I would have never helped her career paid for school guided her along none of that struggle would have ever happened.

I know it sounds "ewww" to say this, but have you ever thought that maybe she functioned like a daughter and a lover at the same time? The provider impulse for a child or spouse is very similar. And like kids when they grow up, they go through a rebellion before they become independent. So maybe you never felt the need to have kids because you were already doing enough nurturing of her as if she was a kid.

There are lots of high-profile examples of men taking younger women under their wing this way. Cher "outgrew" Sonny whereas Celine Dion stayed with René Angélil until he died.

[MichaelCorleone]

(05-30-2017 02:37 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 02:22 PM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:  

if I would have never helped her career paid for school guided her along none of that struggle would have ever happened.

I know it sounds "ewww" to say this, but have you ever thought that maybe she functioned like a daughter and a lover at the same time? The provider impulse for a child or spouse is very similar. And like kids when they grow up, they go through a rebellion before they become independent. So maybe you never felt the need to have kids because you were already doing enough nurturing of her as if she was a kid.

There are lots of high-profile examples of men taking younger women under their wing this way. Cher "outgrew" Sonny whereas Celine Dion stayed with René Angélil until he died.

Honestly man, I think about that constantly, I for all purposes raised her, yes, and when she rebelled a bit, I was like how dare you after everything I have done for you. Great insight, never saw it completely that way, but yeah, you are right. Conversely, it probably made it very hard for her to leave, bc she was with me almost half her life and her entire adult life, thus it was probably very very hard to go out and be alone for the first time since she was 18, and leave someone that you had been with for most of your life. But when people are together that long, sometimes you stay together when you shouldn't, looking at it now, it should have ended years ago, and we just wasted time together, she refused to give up on the marriage, and I was never truly scared enough that she would really leave to truly change. So we just wasted years and years. Which could be a second lesson. If I ever knew that she'd really actually have the balls to leave for good and that that was a distinct possibility then the entire calculus would have been different, and I would have been motivated to probably do what was needed to make things work. i was a bit caught off guard by her leaving and didn't see it coming though looking back now, its hard to believe I didn't see it coming. Sometimes when you are in the eye of the storm its hard to see what is truly going on around you, but then after you detach from it for 3-6 months, you look back and you are like, how did I not realize what was going on.

This is all just a cautionary tale, and wow man reading that first post from 2013 just feels so weird, you think to yourself, man if I only knew then what I know now. Gotta remember the past is the past though, and there is nothing I can do to change it. I will admit though, regret sucks and is sometimes tough to live with.

[Jetset]

(05-30-2017 02:22 PM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:  

And regarding the "long game" i highly doubt this was all planned, you wouldn't sacrifice your whole youth from 19 to 34 and then years after you have a good job, citizenship, education, etc. then just decide to leave Mid 30s.

I rewrote this several times trying to be heartfelt and it turned into a lengthy digression on the role of women in Athens and Sparta, so I'm just going to back way the fuck up and make this point as efficiently as I can:

You say she "sacrificed her youth".

How?

She has an education, a good job, and American citizenship. Some of her Latvian schoolmates are walking around Riga hoping to roll horny British tourists for potato money. Her youth likely served her better than the youth of anyone she grew up with. Unless her looks failed and she can't get knocked up, her life is going to go just fine.

To say she "sacrificed her youth" is to say that being with you was a penalty of some kind. This is a terrible way to think of yourself. You put a great life on the table and she ate it up - until it was all gone and she found herself outcome-independent of you. You trusted that she would keep score and pay you back, but people - especially women - are bad at that. If you have a generous nature, you learn this the hard way, but it has to be learned.

Don't be that guy who didn't break his dick off in her ass when he had the chance because he thought taking it easy on her would pay dividends someday. Someday never comes. I hope you utterly wrecked some model-grade pussy for those years and wish you luck with your future pussy-wrecking. Keep your house in order and she'll probably come sniffing around for a position as a plate eventually.

[MichaelCorleone]

(05-30-2017 04:12 PM)Jetset Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 02:22 PM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:  

And regarding the "long game" i highly doubt this was all planned, you wouldn't sacrifice your whole youth from 19 to 34 and then years after you have a good job, citizenship, education, etc. then just decide to leave Mid 30s.

I rewrote this several times trying to be heartfelt and it turned into a lengthy digression on the role of women in Athens and Sparta, so I'm just going to back way the fuck up and make this point as efficiently as I can:

You say she "sacrificed her youth".

How?

She has an education, a good job, and American citizenship. Some of her Latvian schoolmates are walking around Riga hoping to roll horny British tourists for potato money. Her youth likely served her better than the youth of anyone she grew up with. Unless her looks failed and she can't get knocked up, her life is going to go just fine.

To say she "sacrificed her youth" is to say that being with you was a penalty of some kind. This is a terrible way to think of yourself. You put a great life on the table and she ate it up - until it was all gone and she found herself outcome-independent of you. You trusted that she would keep score and pay you back, but people - especially women - are bad at that. If you have a generous nature, you learn this the hard way, but it has to be learned.

Don't be that guy who didn't break his dick off in her ass when he had the chance because he thought taking it easy on her would pay dividends someday. Someday never comes. I hope you utterly wrecked some model-grade pussy for those years and wish you luck with your future pussy-wrecking. Keep your house in order and she'll probably come sniffing around for a position as a plate eventually.

Great post, I appreciate it.

Yes from a purely objective, scoreboard perspective, she came out smelling like a rose, 34, no kids, making really good money, US Citizen, College Educated, etc....her eligible dating pool of contemporaries are in the same situation as her at 34 all mostly single with no kids, so she didn't really miss out on any opportunities in life, and has a great setup. If she would have waited 3-4 years longer, her marketability would have fallen drastically after 34. That is why I think she made a hardened rational business decision at her age realizing, looks fall off after 34 and if the current situation didn't look long term viable, as I agree with her it really wasn't, the right move for her at the time was to do what she did. And, I gotta add, she went above and beyond what any American girl would have done to make things work, so it's hard to find fault with what she did.

[Rocha]

(05-30-2017 02:37 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 02:22 PM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:  

if I would have never helped her career paid for school guided her along none of that struggle would have ever happened.

I know it sounds "ewww" to say this, but have you ever thought that maybe she functioned like a daughter and a lover at the same time? The provider impulse for a child or spouse is very similar. And like kids when they grow up, they go through a rebellion before they become independent. So maybe you never felt the need to have kids because you were already doing enough nurturing of her as if she was a kid.

There are lots of high-profile examples of men taking younger women under their wing this way. Cher "outgrew" Sonny whereas Celine Dion stayed with René Angélil until he died.

Cher was hot, Celine Dion was not...

[Alick]

(05-30-2017 02:22 PM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:  

There is no trolling here at all, honestly, I wouldn't waste my time or your time with doing stuff like that, like a guy above said my posts were 3 years apart, not looking for any attention etc. Just realized that I had posted this years ago and thought closing the loop and letting people know my mistakes might be able to help someone. Yeah in retrospect, if I would have had kids with her years ago, then based on the stats (66% of divorced couples are childless) there is a high likelihood that we would still be together, but would we have been miserable and is that any way to live life? I have read numerous studies, I have done a ton of research and most marriages happiness falls due to the stress of a child, so unless things were going well, it only makes things worse. I was the one that always pushed off having a kid, always looking for the right time, but sometimes I wonder if I pushed it off constantly because I never wanted kids and was just looking for a reason not to have them and didn't want to admit to myself I didn't want to have them. Regarding her career, yeah I did everything I could to help her with her career bc you never think you are going to get a divorce, so you want to maximize the resources that your family is bringing in. In the end it was a bit of a power struggle over control, and neither one of us wanted to give in and the battle just escalated because we were both Type A aggressive people. The more money she made the older she became the more she wanted equal control, and I just never wanted to give it up. Yeah if I would have never helped her career paid for school guided her along none of that struggle would have ever happened. Regarding divorce, there is nothing in this life except for maybe a death of a loved one that is more painful. The stress is crazy and people get vicious, and the lawyers encourage it, I lost a lot of weight in a very short time. Reading your posts actually help me as, in the same vein I hope I am adding some value. We would have problems and think about breaking up about once a year for last 4 years, I would change for a good 6 months and all was good but then you tend to revert to your subconscious, and then the cycle would happen again the next year, the only way to truly change IMHO is to go through such pain (and a divorce after 14 years together will give you that pain) that your subconscious is actually changed. My biggest mistake was thinking she'd never leave, it was a form of cockiness, and also based on the experience that she almost left multiple times over the years and I just said what I needed to and actually tried to change multiple times. Yeah, if I kept her down for all these years and had kids with her and she wasn't as successful none of this would have happened, I realize that but when you are with someone you don't always try to plan for every contingency of things falling apart, you assume you will be together and try to make the best financial decisions you can for you both. One of the guys above said that you renegotiate things every 10 years, I kind of agree with that especially if you marry someone when they are 21, that same person is going to be very different at age 34, and you have to be willing to renegotiate and if you aren't then if the other person is type A and aggressive you are going to have issues. And yes, I am not giving every detail, because it would be too long, but Ill answer anything honestly if it would help anyone. Just wanted people to learn from me and often you guys have insightful ways of seeing things and they are well thought out, case in point, reading some of the responses here has honestly helped me a bit, so I appreciate that too. I am in like a post mortem at this point I guess looking back at it all ascertaining what happened, why, etc. and just wanted to try and assist you guys since you like EE women as much as I do. And regarding the "long game" i highly doubt this was all planned, you wouldn't sacrifice your whole youth from 19 to 34 and then years after you have a good job, citizenship, education, etc. then just decide to leave Mid 30s. Maybe I am delusional but if that was the end goal, she would have left a few years prior, she was from the country in Latvia, these girls actually want things to work, and try pretty hard, IMHO, I mean none of the other Au Pairs are divorced she came with BUT they all have kids now. I know this seems a bit rambling, I apologize for that, but I am trying to get as much info in with as few words. Plus all details aren't needed for me to get the point across that I was trying to convey.

I can 100% relate with you. I had same experience. I met a village Czech girl when she was 23 and was very naive. We were in relation for 3 years. I brought her back to Australia. But I never encouraged her to apply for Aus permanent residence or citizenship. Infact I told her to be on student visa if she wants to stay in Aus. She was in Australia for 3 years with me on student visa. In those 3 years she was the best I could imagine. Cooking for me, giving sex on demand, blowjobs, cleaning and other house stuff. In the end, I wanted to try new sex partners and enjoy life more as I was missing my single life. So I dumped her. After 3 months when I realized grass in not greener, I tried to get back to her, she straight away said no as by then she had found that she could live independently and she found her SMV in Australia.

The lesson I learned from this: Though EE girls are best in looks, in sex, in maintaining a house but you have to keep them in certain environment. If you want long term successful relation with them, you have to start family with them as soon as possible, you have to realize her how lucky she is being with you in Australia. In simple words, you have to keep her dependent on you. The day she realized that she can live independently and have lot of guys waiting for her, she will trade you for better option.

[Rocha]

Michael, is she Latvian-Latvian or Russian-Latvian?

[MichaelCorleone]

(05-30-2017 04:57 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

Michael, is she Latvian-Latvian or Russian-Latvian?

Latvian Latvian

Honestly, can't find any fault in what she did and why, also the timing, purpose of the follow-up was just to close the loop, and also disclose the fault with my actions that most likely led to the dissolution, and hopefully be a cautionary tale to anyone else that may find themselves in the same situation. When the dynamics of a relationship change drastically, if you still want it to work, you have to adjust to the new "facts on the ground" people change from 19 to 34, just the way it is.

[doc holliday]

(05-30-2017 04:50 PM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 04:12 PM)Jetset Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 02:22 PM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:  

And regarding the "long game" i highly doubt this was all planned, you wouldn't sacrifice your whole youth from 19 to 34 and then years after you have a good job, citizenship, education, etc. then just decide to leave Mid 30s.

I rewrote this several times trying to be heartfelt and it turned into a lengthy digression on the role of women in Athens and Sparta, so I'm just going to back way the fuck up and make this point as efficiently as I can:

You say she "sacrificed her youth".

How?

She has an education, a good job, and American citizenship. Some of her Latvian schoolmates are walking around Riga hoping to roll horny British tourists for potato money. Her youth likely served her better than the youth of anyone she grew up with. Unless her looks failed and she can't get knocked up, her life is going to go just fine.

To say she "sacrificed her youth" is to say that being with you was a penalty of some kind. This is a terrible way to think of yourself. You put a great life on the table and she ate it up - until it was all gone and she found herself outcome-independent of you. You trusted that she would keep score and pay you back, but people - especially women - are bad at that. If you have a generous nature, you learn this the hard way, but it has to be learned.

Don't be that guy who didn't break his dick off in her ass when he had the chance because he thought taking it easy on her would pay dividends someday. Someday never comes. I hope you utterly wrecked some model-grade pussy for those years and wish you luck with your future pussy-wrecking. Keep your house in order and she'll probably come sniffing around for a position as a plate eventually.

Great post, I appreciate it.

Yes from a purely objective, scoreboard perspective, she came out smelling like a rose, 34, no kids, making really good money, US Citizen, College Educated, etc....her eligible dating pool of contemporaries are in the same situation as her at 34 all mostly single with no kids, so she didn't really miss out on any opportunities in life, and has a great setup. If she would have waited 3-4 years longer, her marketability would have fallen drastically after 34. That is why I think she made a hardened rational business decision at her age realizing, looks fall off after 34 and if the current situation didn't look long term viable, as I agree with her it really wasn't, the right move for her at the time was to do what she did. And, I gotta add, she went above and beyond what any American girl would have done to make things work, so it's hard to find fault with what she did.

I agree with Jetset that she did well being married to you. You gave her a lot and I'm guessing she knew it so she tried her best with you until she couldn't anymore. It is true that when you decide to be generous with time, resources etc, it is best not to expect anything in return in the future because you won't really get it back most of the time.

You did ok too though. You had a smoking hot EE chick that was probably the envy of most people around you, a chick you got to enjoy in her prime years. I'm sure you had some great times together which is why you are able to say that she was a good wife and that you have no hard feelings towards her despite the tough ending. So fine, it didn't work out and you lost some money in the divorce. Big f'n deal. You can go make more money and go get another smoking hot babe, one that's her age or younger. And I think you shouldn't feel bad about doing what you did for her. You got to fuck her and enjoy her for 15 yrs, much of it in her prime so doing everything you did for her was fine as far as I'm concerned. Because guess what? All things eventually come to an end. Unfortunately, a lot of guys like Lizard want something for nothing and it simply does not work that way.

So I would tell you to hold your head high, learn what can be learnt from this experience, take some of the red pill and move forward. Jetset is correct, she may return in the future as a plate, I could see that. Most of all, forget the fools who want to call you a troll for not hating your ex wife.

[BassPlayaYo]

Spectacular people don't rob you during a divorce, they don't take from you what does not belong to them. Spectacular people recognize that they have a great job with the means to do whatever they want and are grateful that you were able to get them to that point which means despite what the lawyers advocate they do the right thing. This woman was not spectacular just another form of "gold digger". The possessiveness that the OP described in the initial posts clues you in on what kind of woman this was. She's all about the opportunity, controlling and notice that she left OP and probably was already fucking someone else. The OP will probably deny that this is a possibility because he's been hypnotized by "love" to the point where even today he doesn't see that he was robbed.

Think about the reasons why a "successful" guy gets dumped and by what kind of woman. Did he have abundance mentality? Was he constantly improving and redefining himself? Was he paying attention? Does he even lift? I would say the answer to all these questions is NO, NO, NO and NO!

I know women like this and have seen them in action and somewhat pity they guys that they trap in their net all in the interest of them realizing their dream not his. The OP isn't a troll he also isn't Red Pill and for sure doesn't have Game.

Just my thoughts...

[Jetset]

(05-31-2017 08:17 AM)BassPlayaYo Wrote:  

I know women like this and have seen them in action and somewhat pity they guys that they trap in their net all in the interest of them realizing their dream not his.

Taking his story at face value, his wife might have had many virtues. She did do the work to complete her education, and she did do the work to build a career.

She also accepted his subsidy to get there, and whatever debt she thought she owed, if any, she apparently saw as paid. Say you're remodeling your house, this is why you sign a contract to define the terms before you start work and exchange money, not after. If you try to negotiate retrofitted rules onto what has already happened, it's going to be ugly as you each jockey for position, sometimes not even realizing you're being unfair or unreasonable about what already happened, because people naturally want to believe they are right. (...almost like a...divorce...)

He does clearly have her on a pedestal. The worst interpretation is that this was completely premeditated, and it might be, but it's also just the kind of thing that happens between people, even men, every day. She may not be at all aware that the connection between all of these events is her own self-interest, even as she's following those instincts around. Every step in this process could just as easily be whatever feels right from one year to the next.

The sentence I quoted above is the one I thought was most important from your post, because that's the real lesson here: he subsidized her dream. She wasn't going to put her own ass through college. It's sad, but he probably would've gotten more lasting gratitude out of her using her college money to buy himself a nice boat to fuck her on so that she can impress her friends.

[casio]

She's 34 and you were together for almost 15 years?
High five for taking her best years.

[BassPlayaYo]

(05-31-2017 08:57 AM)casio Wrote:  

She's 34 and you were together for almost 15 years?
High five for taking her best years.

He didn't take anything, he paid cash money for it.

[MichaelCorleone]

(05-31-2017 09:04 AM)BassPlayaYo Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 08:57 AM)casio Wrote:  

She's 34 and you were together for almost 15 years?
High five for taking her best years.

He didn't take anything, he paid cash money for it.

Yeah, you are right and some of my youth went to it too, heck, I'd take her setup at 34 all day long, youth is the only thing that no amount of money can bring back. Yes, I can see how it looks as though she acted in her own self interest, but honestly if I wasn't such a jerk the last few years and taking her for complete granted she would have never left, this is more of a story of I reap what I sow then me being a victim of an EE girl working me. She has been making 6+ figures for the last 5 years too just FYI, so she could have left any time in last 5 years and had more of her youth and nice money. She honestly went above and beyond to try and save things for years, and frankly I did nothing. She begged me for last 3 years to go to counseling and I refused thinking it would be useless. She actually then went to counseling on her own, she really wanted to fix the problems. I mean would it have been so hard to go to a counselor for an hour a week to try and save the marriage? No it would not have been hard, but at the time I didn't seem to want to put any real effort into improving things, it was apathy after being married for so long maybe, and just the belief that she'd never have the balls to leave. In the end she showed me she had the balls. Jetset's post above is pretty spot on IMHO. Also me "folding" in the divorce, it wasn't over a lot of money, and you guys have no idea what going through a divorce is like, things were amicable then after the divorce lawyers get involved it gets so nasty hateful and expensive. We both looked like death, I lost so much weight, some of my hair was falling out, and she looked like it was killing her too. The only people that were winning were the lawyers, and the % of our assets they were taking for fees was crazy. There comes a point where u just want it over and the whole process is soul destroying.

I do appreciate all of the posts and input, many of them have helped me to see things from a different perspective.

[BassPlayaYo]

(05-31-2017 10:16 AM)MichaelCorleone Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 09:04 AM)BassPlayaYo Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 08:57 AM)casio Wrote:  

She's 34 and you were together for almost 15 years?
High five for taking her best years.

He didn't take anything, he paid cash money for it.

Yeah, you are right and some of my youth went to it too, heck, I'd take her setup at 34 all day long, youth is the only thing that no amount of money can bring back. Yes, I can see how it looks as though she acted in her own self interest, but honestly if I wasn't such a jerk the last few years and taking her for complete granted she would have never left, this is more of a story of I reap what I sow then me being a victim of an EE girl working me. She has been making 6+ figures for the last 5 years too just FYI. She honestly went above and beyond to try and save things for years, and frankly I did nothing. She begged me for last 3 years to go to counseling and I refused thinking it would be useless. She actually then went to counseling on her own, she really wanted to fix the problems. I mean would it have been so hard to go to a counselor for an hour a week to try and save the marriage? No it would not have been hard, but at the time I didn't seem to want to put any real effort into improving things, it was apathy after being married for so long maybe, and just the belief that she'd never have the balls to leave. In the end she showed me she had the balls. Jetset's post above is pretty spot on IMHO. Also me "folding" in the divorce, it wasn't over a lot of money, and you guys have no idea what going through a divorce is like, things were amicable then after the divorce lawyers get involved it gets so nasty hateful and expensive. We both looked like death, I lost so much weight, some of my hair was falling out, and she looked like it was killing her too. The only people that were winning were the lawyers, and the % of our assets they were taking for fees was crazy. There comes a point where u just want it over and the whole process is soul destroying.

What doesn't quite square is this notion that she's making six figures but you in the end there's a fight over money that she knows is not her own. I also hear you saying you became such a "loser" that she had no choice but to bolt. What do you think is the one thing you could have done for yourself that would have made things different?