[slubu]

I've been trying recently to really put in an effort in my fitness/diet. For as long as I can remember, I do some form of Paleo/Low Carb diet. I've been in decent shape but have never been ripped or anything close to that. I've also never had huge muscles, but I'm an ectomorph. I'm 5'11 about 160 lbs. I do cross-fit type workouts now. I have some slight muscles, and still a minor gut from the drinking I do (or maybe my macros, see below).

So I've been looking at Leangains and I calculated my macros for body recomposition (+20% workout, -20% rest days), and the numbers came out to:

Workout days:
Calories - 2856
Protein - 200g
Fat - 56g
Carbs - 375g

Rest Days:
Calories - 1904
Protein - 200g
Fat - 31g
Carbs - 206g

375g of carbs!?!? I've never ate that much. A typical day is usually very fat heavy. Today for example, I had 184g protein, 103g fat, 104g carbs. So 20% carbs, 35% protein, 45% fat. All my fats come from good sources (coconut oil, eggs, wild fish, avocado, nut butter, etc.) All my carbs come from fruit and veggies. I barely ever have any grains, rice, pasta, sweets, potatoes, starches or dairy.

I've never done macro counting, maybe this is what I'm missing. Too much fat? Just say fuck it and overload on carbs?

[Every10GivesMeA10]

You don't need to do carb cycling... Just eat the same macros daily for simplicities sake.

31 grams of fat is way too low by the way.

On a cut, MINIMUM dietary fat should be anywhere from 0.3 to 0.5 grams per LB of BW, protein 1 gram per LB of BW, fill the rest in with carbs.

There's no need to eat 100 grams of fat (as per your OP) and only 100g of carbs. I am surprised you don't feel sluggish and have the energy to lift.

[kosko]

Maybe look into your Micro-nutrients?

Micros >>> Marcos

I never understood the concept of being obsessed over sources of energy your body uses when its the micro-nutrients it truly utilizes to glue the puzzle pieces together. I am "bigger" than you and I barley even eat that amount of a food daily and still get gains. I make sure to hit my micro targets more, this is what the body starves for. Your car will still run on a quarter or a full tank of gas (Marcos), but go try and run your car with no oil (Micros) and see what happens.

Last week Tuesday I hit all of my marcos but nearly died because I was dumb and depleted my potassium stores from too much time in the sauna and chugging down a gallon of distilled water. Maybe saying I almost died is a bit much but the cramps I felt nearly made me pass out from the excruciating pain. I have a high pain tolerance and I can't even describe the intensity of the pains, I could literally see my abdominal muscles pop-out and knot up, it was truly scary. All of that would of been avoided if I ate a some Bananas. That is the power that micro-nutrients have on the body and I feel that many of us whom bodybuild and workout try to discount them as not important when they really mean a lot more to the grand scheme of things then just simple energy aka Marcos.

It may be very well that your need more nutrients, water, or fibre. your body might be having issues breaking down all of the foliage, fats, and flesh your are pumping into it.

If your car is running with dodgy oil it will make it harder for it to efficiently burn and use its base fuel. It will still run but not optimal and in time will have issues. That is Micros vs Marcos in a nutshell.

[Every10GivesMeA10]

Quote:

Maybe look into your Micro-nutrients?

Sounds like he gets more than enough of them.

Quote:

All my fats come from good sources (coconut oil, eggs, wild fish, avocado, nut butter, etc.) All my carbs come from fruit and veggies.

_
Macros are what determines fat loss/gain. You can still lose weight on a shitty diet low in micros but obviously your health will suffer in the long run.

[WesternCancer]

Why are you eating so little calories on rest days? You need those calories to recover.

Those fat values also seem very low.

Just pick bulk or cut. Personally I've tried to do both and have failed horribly. Well I just got intermediate results. Strength gains were slower. My bodyfat decreased as I stayed the same weight, but it would have been way more efficient to cut and then do a slow bulk.

[Jaylow]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...=121703981

Every10 has it right except

Quote:

Macros are what determines fat loss/gain.

This is wrong. Calories determine fat loss/gain.

[MikeCF]

(04-01-2013 09:20 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...=121703981

Every10 has it right except

Quote:

Macros are what determines fat loss/gain.

This is wrong. Calories determine fat loss/gain.

You eat 3,000 calories of cupcakes and I'll eat 3,000 calories following a ketogenic diet.

Wanna bet you'll lose more fat than me?

[kosko]

(04-01-2013 09:20 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...=121703981

Every10 has it right except

Quote:

Macros are what determines fat loss/gain.

This is wrong. Calories determine fat loss/gain.

Marcos are just different sources of Energy/Calories.

Calories are just units of energy, Marcos are the source types of those energy units. Your body favours some over others depending on what is being asked of it.

The units is what determines a surplus or deficit but the type of energy does not matter. I need a 1700 KJ of "energy" a day to maintain sustenance but it does not matter how those are sourced as long as its a fuel type my body can use (fats, carbohydrates, protein).

[Lothario]

Slubu what exactly are you eating, Can you post your meal composition ......

[globalunderground]

The problem with some of these diets is rebound hunger...that late night craving to down whatever you can find in the fridge or make a frozen pizza.

I've noticed the best way to stay in shape is to eat whatever I want, as long as I avoid rebound hunger. Calories are calories, regardless whether they come from Whole Foods or not.

[DVY]

You forget to count your alcohol intake. Beer/vodka/cocktails. For simplicity, each alcohol unit is 100 (shot)- 200 calories (beer). Beer has massive amounts of carbs.

When I added clean carbs, my workouts improved. 100g carbs/day seems low. I would be sluggish and lethargic. Maybe up it a bit, then see how you react?

[slubu]

(04-01-2013 09:32 PM)Lothario Wrote:  

Slubu what exactly are you eating, Can you post your meal composition ......

My typical food intake is as follows, usually on an IF type system:

Fast until workout, then:

3 eggs, in coconut oil sauteed with onions and garlic
Fruit and nuts or nut butter
Protein shake

Snacks of strawberries, blueberries other fruit, potentially more nut butter

Another snack of avocados and either sardines/wild salmon (canned).

Main meal of chicken or grass-fed beef/lamb, sauteed again in coconut oil, some greens (spinach/kale) other veggies (onion garlic again) and spices.

That's my usual food intake for a day, very close to that. Sometimes I'll just eat at whole foods instead of cooking, or I'll get some thai food (again no rice, just the curry/soups). Of course I go out a lot so let's say 3x a week I'm out either drinking or on a date too where I'll eat a variety of stuff, but still usually stick to no major carbs outside fruit/veggies.

Actually that's not true, yesterday I had about 10 mimosas and some crem brulee, but that was because I was on a date with a chick I planned on banging afterwards. But at most that happens 1x a week, if that.

[slubu]

(04-01-2013 08:57 PM)kosko Wrote:  

Maybe look into your Micro-nutrients?

Micros >>> Marcos

If Micros are vitamins or what not, I think I get plenty. See my food intake, I eat relatively healthy.

(04-01-2013 09:02 PM)WesternCancer Wrote:  

Why are you eating so little calories on rest days? You need those calories to recover.

Those fat values also seem very low.

Just pick bulk or cut. Personally I've tried to do both and have failed horribly. Well I just got intermediate results. Strength gains were slower. My bodyfat decreased as I stayed the same weight, but it would have been way more efficient to cut and then do a slow bulk.

To be honest I care nothing about strength. I just want to look good. Aesthetics matter more than anything for me.

(04-01-2013 09:33 PM)globalunderground Wrote:  

The problem with some of these diets is rebound hunger...that late night craving to down whatever you can find in the fridge or make a frozen pizza.

I've noticed the best way to stay in shape is to eat whatever I want, as long as I avoid rebound hunger. Calories are calories, regardless whether they come from Whole Foods or not.

I avoid that completely. I have pretty good self control. I actually do not "miss" foods ever, I'm pretty good at turning off that part of my mind. Except for alcohol maybe.

[kosko]

(04-01-2013 09:39 PM)slubu Wrote:  

(04-01-2013 09:32 PM)Lothario Wrote:  

Slubu what exactly are you eating, Can you post your meal composition ......

My typical food intake is as follows, usually on an IF type system:

Fast until workout, then:

3 eggs, in coconut oil sauteed with onions and garlic
Fruit and nuts or nut butter
Protein shake

Snacks of strawberries, blueberries other fruit, potentially more nut butter

Another snack of avocados and either sardines/wild salmon (canned).

Main meal of chicken or grass-fed beef/lamb, sauteed again in coconut oil, some greens (spinach/kale) other veggies (onion garlic again) and spices.

That's my usual food intake for a day, very close to that. Sometimes I'll just eat at whole foods instead of cooking, or I'll get some thai food (again no rice, just the curry/soups). Of course I go out a lot so let's say 3x a week I'm out either drinking or on a date too where I'll eat a variety of stuff, but still usually stick to no major carbs outside fruit/veggies.

Actually that's not true, yesterday I had about 10 mimosas and some crem brulee, but that was because I was on a date with a chick I planned on banging afterwards. But at most that happens 1x a week, if that.

Yes I see you eat preety much like me when I am 100% on a good diet with ample money to spend on good foods. how you ate is how I ate all summer and I had no issues.

What types of liquor are your consuming? Your body type might have a weakness towards it and how its metabolized.

Only other things I can think off would be :

- Sleep
- Water intake

[slubu]

(04-01-2013 09:38 PM)DVY Wrote:  

You forget to count your alcohol intake. Beer/vodka/cocktails. For simplicity, each alcohol unit is 100 (shot)- 200 calories (beer). Beer has massive amounts of carbs.

When I added clean carbs, my workouts improved. 100g carbs/day seems low. I would be sluggish and lethargic. Maybe up it a bit, then see how you react?

Yeah alcohol does count, but it's limited to nights I go out. And when I go out its usually just ketel/rocks. I had maybe 5 beers total in March.

Yeah maybe try upping my carbs see what happens.

[slubu]

(04-01-2013 09:44 PM)kosko Wrote:  

What types of liquor are your consuming? Your body type might have a weakness towards it and how its metabolized.

Only other things I can think off would be :

- Sleep
- Water intake

Mostly vodka and if not whiskey/scotch. I sleep 6 hours usually per night. Water is a fault of mine, I need to drink a lot more. I probably average about 30-50oz a day I'd say.

[MidniteSpecial]

Take platinum plus essential amino acids.

Take liver tablets.

Take 6-8 tbs of olive oil a day.

If you're going to go carb heavy choose healthy nutrient dense ones. Think 6 bananas in a smoothie for breakfast. Or as much white rice as possible post work out with a sweet potatoe. Raw goats milk and cheese may do you some good too.

I would stop counting everything. It's not like its helping you. Or is it?

[MidniteSpecial]

(04-01-2013 09:45 PM)slubu Wrote:  

(04-01-2013 09:44 PM)kosko Wrote:  

What types of liquor are your consuming? Your body type might have a weakness towards it and how its metabolized.

Only other things I can think off would be :

- Sleep
- Water intake

Mostly vodka and if not whiskey/scotch. I sleep 6 hours usually per night. Water is a fault of mine, I need to drink a lot more. I probably average about 30-50oz a day I'd say.

Humans slept an avg of 10 hrs per night before electricity.

[NewGamer]

Is it weird that I thought of excel macros when I read the thread name?

[Sonsowey]

Are you guys actually keeping track of what your overall food intake is to the gram?

How, for instance, would you go about calculating calories for this:

[WesternCancer]

What is that soulvaki or something?

I'd say 2-300 for the rice (depending on how much there is). 100 for any fat its cooked in. Assuming that meat is roasted id say another 3-500 (can't tell how much meat there is or how fatty it is) and 200 max depending on what that sauce is made of. Prob 50 grams protein or less (can't tell how much meat there is).

[kosko]

(04-01-2013 10:33 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Are you guys actually keeping track of what your overall food intake is to the gram?

How, for instance, would you go about calculating calories for this:

Myfitnesspal is pretty good with matching up meals, even for fast food/take-out and restaurants. You can usually find the exact meal or its equivalent from another place.

[Sanblz33]

(04-01-2013 08:43 PM)slubu Wrote:  

I've been trying recently to really put in an effort in my fitness/diet. For as long as I can remember, I do some form of Paleo/Low Carb diet. I've been in decent shape but have never been ripped or anything close to that. I've also never had huge muscles, but I'm an ectomorph. I'm 5'11 about 160 lbs. I do cross-fit type workouts now. I have some slight muscles, and still a minor gut from the drinking I do (or maybe my macros, see below).

So I've been looking at Leangains and I calculated my macros for body recomposition (+20% workout, -20% rest days), and the numbers came out to:

Workout days:
Calories - 2856
Protein - 200g
Fat - 56g
Carbs - 375g

Rest Days:
Calories - 1904
Protein - 200g
Fat - 31g
Carbs - 206g

375g of carbs!?!? I've never ate that much. A typical day is usually very fat heavy. Today for example, I had 184g protein, 103g fat, 104g carbs. So 20% carbs, 35% protein, 45% fat. All my fats come from good sources (coconut oil, eggs, wild fish, avocado, nut butter, etc.) All my carbs come from fruit and veggies. I barely ever have any grains, rice, pasta, sweets, potatoes, starches or dairy.

I've never done macro counting, maybe this is what I'm missing. Too much fat? Just say fuck it and overload on carbs?

Honestly, @ 5'11" & 160 lbs I would put on 20lbs (via upping your carbs & calories) before cutting. Cutting @ 160lbs will have you looking anorexic.

[slubu]

(04-01-2013 09:53 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  

I would stop counting everything. It's not like its helping you. Or is it?

I just started today, so don't know. Something's not adding up, so I'm trying to figure out what that is.

[guerrilla]

aren't macros those sort-of program-like things you can run in Excel for certain number crunching tasks?