[Giovonny]

(04-05-2013 06:28 PM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

Your body only 'cleans out' the excess fat around your belly if you are in a caloric deficit.

Yes, of course. I understand this and completely agree that this is step one, the most important step, obviously.

I should have acknowledged that sooner.

(04-05-2013 06:28 PM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

Some people look leaner in the morning if they don't eat at night, so you that could be why you think eating at night makes you fat.

Yup. Thats exactly why. People who eat light before bed wake up looking leaner. People who eat heavy before bed wake up with more mass around their belly.

Generally speaking, of course. Quality of food and daily caloric output/input are also huge fundamental factors in this.

Like you have been saying, if you have burned 3000 calories that day and you have only eaten 1000 calories, you can get away with alot more eating before bed.

My advice is just general to all people with a gut. If you want to lose that gut -- Eat cleaner and go to bed on a slightly empty stomach. Give your stomach a chance to work while its empty. If it always has to process new food, it will not get a chance to process old fat.

Thats just my general advice. If a fat guy can figure out a way to eat a big meal before bed and still lose his gut, then more power to him and I want to see his diet and workout plans.

(04-05-2013 06:28 PM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

This study even says that eating a high carb meal before bed actually increases fat loss: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21475137

That is very hard for me to believe.

It goes against all my observation and experience.

But, I've been wrong before, many times.

(04-05-2013 06:28 PM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

About spot reducing fat... It is impossible.

Thanks for admitting that.

Technically, its basically impossible.

But, some people can just figure it out for their own body.

So, it is possible but very rare and difficult to do.

(04-05-2013 06:28 PM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

You might be confusing bloating with fat gain as well.

Yes, I think I was for parts of this discussion.

(04-05-2013 06:28 PM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

Eating pizza one night will not make your belly gain fat.

Oh, I don't know..?

I think all that cheese, flour, oil, pepperoni, sausage and tomato paste have to go somewhere. Very little of that is useful to your body. It will not turn into muscle. Most of it will become fat and go straight to the fat storage area of your body. Which is usually the gut.

Good exchange Every10, feel free to respond again if you like, I learn something each time.

[Giovonny]

(04-04-2013 04:43 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

Here is Josef Rakich, one of the most ripped natural dudes I have seen.

http://www.josefrakichfitness.com/pages/...r-macros-2

Quote:

Eating donuts won't automatically make you get fat. Gaining body fat is all about excess calories not the types of foods that you consume.

There is no such thing as "good" and "bad" foods, or "clean" and "dirty' foods" (unless you are talking about health wise). There is no list of foods your not allowed to eat to reach your body composition goals. Don't think you have to give up pizza or McDonald's just because you want to lose some weight. General body composition is about calorie and macronutrient control, hitting your macronutrient targets and calorie requirements however and whenever you want with ANY foods of your personal preference.

I disagree with this. I think this guy can eat whatever he wants because he is probably very blessed genetically and he also works out like 4 hours a day. People like that can eat whatever they want and they still look great.

The average guy with average genetics who has to work a 9-5 should avoid low quality food as much as possible. Telling fat people that they can eat junk food is bad advice, in my opinion.

(04-04-2013 04:43 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

the veggies vs candy does not matter on a purely physical standpoint.

I respectfully disagree. I think vitamins and minerals play a big role in muscle development. We know they play a role in the health of bones, skin, blood, etc. So, how can they not play a role in the development of muscle?

(04-04-2013 04:43 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

MICROnutrients ie: vitamins and minerals and has to do with the health inside your body not the outside.

I respectfully disagree. I think vitamins and minerals have alot to do with muscle growth. We know they have alot to do with bones, skin, blood, etc. We know they body is one single organism. How can vitamins and minerals effect bones and blood but not muscles?

Seems elementary to me..?

Everything you put in your mouth matters, in my opinion.

(04-04-2013 04:43 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

you are talking about stomach bloating not fat gain.

Yes, I think I was.

But, I also think that eating too much bread makes you fat, as well as bloated.

(04-04-2013 04:43 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

This is horrible advice and 100% incorrect in every way.

My advice was to eat less junk food....

(04-04-2013 04:43 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

A person eating 2000 calories a day of salad would have the same physique of a person eating 2000 calories a day eating candy.

I strongly disagree.

(04-04-2013 04:43 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

Being skinny fat is a horrible position to be in. You either have to lose more weight and have the figure of a girl or you have to gain more weight and lift heavy THEN cut. The process of curing skinny fat takes AT LEAST a year but probably more.

Yeah, being skinny-fat sucks.

I think I can help guys in about 3-6 months. The key is the fruits and vegetables and the veggie juice. This stuff washes away fat stored throughout the belly.

(04-04-2013 04:43 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

Please keep in mind that our discussion to this point has been all on the physical outsides of our bodies and not the inside.

Yes, of course. This is the point we disagree on. I believe that ALL the micros AND macros we eat effect muscle growth

(04-04-2013 04:43 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

Having 25% calories of candy a day isn't going to do anything negative to you in the long run as long as that other 75% hits your daily micro/macronutrients.

I disagree. I think 100% clean is alot better then 75% clean. I think that little bit of candy every day adds up.

Burnout is a separate issue.

(04-04-2013 04:43 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

In your MMA example

I take that back. That wasn't relevant.

I have too much free time.

[Jaylow]

@Slubu - The best heavy compounds you can do without bending your back

-bench (yes this is a compound)
-dumb bell lunges
-front box squats (torso is almost straight up and down with proper form)
-military press
-weighted dips
-close grip weighted pullups

[Every10GivesMeA10]

Quote:

Yup. Thats exactly why. People who eat light before bed wake up looking leaner. People who eat heavy before bed wake up with more mass around their belly.

Generally speaking, of course. Quality of food and daily caloric output/input are also huge fundamental factors in this.

Like you have been saying, if you have burned 3000 calories that day and you have only eaten 1000 calories, you can get away with alot more eating before bed.

My advice is just general to all people with a gut. If you want to lose that gut -- Eat cleaner and go to bed on a slightly empty stomach. Give your stomach a chance to work while its empty. If it always has to process new food, it will not get a chance to process old fat.

Thats just my general advice. If a fat guy can figure out a way to eat a big meal before bed and still lose his gut, then more power to him and I want to see his diet and workout plans.

Advising people to eat light before bed is actually a good idea since people tend to overeat at night in front of the TV. But as we know by know, if your overall calories and macro nutrients are under control, fat gain won't happen.

[WesternCancer]

(04-06-2013 04:07 AM)Jaylow Wrote:  

@Slubu - The best heavy compounds you can do without bending your back

-bench (yes this is a compound)
-dumb bell lunges
-front box squats (torso is almost straight up and down with proper form)
-military press
-weighted dips
-close grip weighted pullups

I dunno about you but I bend my back tons on the bench and military press.

[Giovonny]

(04-06-2013 05:50 AM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

Advising people to eat light before bed is actually a good idea since people tend to overeat at night in front of the TV. But as we now know, if your overall calories and macro nutrients are under control, fat gain won't happen.

Agreed. (For the most part)

If I would have called you on the phone to talk about this, we would have been in agreement after about 5 minutes.

Debating on the internet is sometimes a slow process.

Good debate. I learned alot.

If there is anything else you want to breakdown, feel free.

I want to say this..

If your overall calories and macros are under control, eating alot or eating bad food at night is might not cause fat gain..

But, I think, it will lead to lower quality skin, slower growth of hair, slower growth of fingernails, slower healing and cuts and scrapes, lower quality blood, and stuff like that.

Everything you put in your mouth matters. I believe in avoiding bad food as much as possible.

Night time is when the body heals and repairs itself.

I believe in going to bed on a slightly empty stomach so that the body doesn't have to process anything during the night. This allows the body to rejuvenate itself without any distraction.

The body creates testosterone between 10pm and 3am, I don't want to interrupt this process by stuffing my belly at 945pm.

Can you eat alot at night and still get ripped? Yes, of course, as long as macros and calories are good.

I just wanted to share my "Bro-Science" and see how it stood up against scrutiny.

Thanks dude, welcome to the forum.

[WanderingSoul]

(04-06-2013 12:15 PM)WesternCancer Wrote:  

(04-06-2013 04:07 AM)Jaylow Wrote:  

@Slubu - The best heavy compounds you can do without bending your back

-bench (yes this is a compound)
-dumb bell lunges
-front box squats (torso is almost straight up and down with proper form)
-military press
-weighted dips
-close grip weighted pullups

I dunno about you but I bend my back tons on the bench and military press.

Same. I bend my back on the overhead press much less now though because I clinch my ass cheeks together tight. I was having some lower back pain/discomfort during heavy presses and that was the reason why, too much backwards bending. Figured I'd drop this here in case anyone is having the same problem since it reminded me of that.

Another lower body lift you could add is dumbbell stepups. Could try barbell, but the load may hurt your back. Grab two heavy dumbbells and step up onto a bench/box for reps.

[Giovonny]

I had a few typos in my posts. I want to fix them..

(04-05-2013 09:30 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(04-05-2013 06:28 PM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

About spot reducing fat... It is impossible.

Thanks for admitting that.

Technically, its basically impossible.

But, some people can just figure it out for their own body.

So, it is possible but very rare and difficult to do.

Every10 said it's imposible.

I thought he said it was possible.

I saw what I wanted to see.

Haha

(04-05-2013 05:03 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

1) I beleive eating before bed effects your gut/6 pack. People with a gut should go to bed on a slightly empty stomach. People who want a 6 pack should go to bed on a slightly empty stomach. If you go to bed with heavy food in your stomach, your body has to process that food and it can not clean out the excess fat around the belly. If you go to bed on an empty stomach, you will get hungry around 3am, but, you will be sleeping, your body will start to eat the excess fat around your belly.

You said..

WHEN you eat matters. It not all about calories in and calories out and hitting macro numbers. What types of calories and when you eat them is also a huge factor.

"You said" should have been deleted.

You did not say that.

I said that.

Sorry for any confusion. I hate typos.

How is the gut Slubu? It should be about 1-2 inches smaller then it was last week..

[slubu]

Well interestingly enough I've been trying to follow the macros as best I can, without going nuts. I just know I won't meet the calroic requirements so I just eat as much as I can without feeling sick. I keep the protein up, and workout days go heavy carbs and rest days flip it with the fat intake vs. carbs. Also eating as much as possible right after working out.

Result is it's working so far. This is also independent of time (meaning eating before sleeping too). This weekend I had a beerfest, so I worked out hard in the AM so the carbs can be digested in terms of all the beer I was going to drink. Seemed to work.

I know this is a long process so 1 week doesn't do anything, but maybe I'm not as carb sensitive as I thought I was.

[Giovonny]

(04-08-2013 03:58 PM)slubu Wrote:  

Result is it's working so far.

When you say "its working"..

What data are you using to come to that conclusion?

What exactly are you measuring?

Weight? Body fat? Belly size? Stomach lines? Energy level? Vitality? All of the above?

(04-08-2013 03:58 PM)slubu Wrote:  

This is also independent of time

As long as you are getting results.

If you are ever unhappy with your results, I recommended the not-eating-before-bed thing.

(04-08-2013 03:58 PM)slubu Wrote:  

Seemed to work.

Again, based on which measurements?

What you measure is what improves

(04-08-2013 03:58 PM)slubu Wrote:  

I know this is a long process

I don't think it has to be a long process.

I think with the proper dietary adjustments, you can see results in 72 hours.

If you switched to an all juice diet, you would begin losing weight/fat immediately and your gut would be gone within 4-8 weeks more or less.

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-11589.html

(04-08-2013 03:58 PM)slubu Wrote:  

maybe I'm not as carb sensitive as I thought I was.

This is important. You need to identify which foods go straight to your belly. Also, you need to identify which foods are good for your body. The foods that have protein and nutrients but do not stick to your belly.

Pay attention to how certain foods react with your body. Check your belly each morning and think about what you ate the day/night before.

Your biggest enemy in all of this almost certainly alcohol. I know you love to drink and I'm not suggesting you drink less. You can drink and still be in good shape. You just have to learn your body's own unique recipe that will allow that to happen.

My friends who are big drinkers eat really clean during the week, then, on the weekends, they drink and eat whatever. But, they are working out hard and living an active lifestyle almost everyday.

It is possible to be a heavy drinker and still be in good physical shape without a gut. You just have to educate yourself on your own body. You have to learn and master your own body.

If you really can't figure it out, you should move in to my house for one month and eat what I eat..

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-22068-...#pid405136

If that doesn't work, you can always get liposuction, seriously.

[Hannibal]

I found this offline computer program called "FitDay" that I'll be getting once I get my next paycheck to track my macros. I've also read good things about the myfitnesspal app.

After that, I'll experiment for a while to see what works. I think I'll use some online calculators to figure out my maintenance level calorie intake, then go from there.

Then I'll look up some general rules for when I should eat.

This guy seems to know what he's talking about, so I'll be going by what he says and see what happens.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/randy46.htm