[Every10GivesMeA10]

(04-01-2013 09:20 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...=121703981

Every10 has it right except

Quote:

Macros are what determines fat loss/gain.

This is wrong. Calories determine fat loss/gain.

If you are counting macros, you are (indirectly) counting calories.

[Giovonny]

(04-01-2013 09:39 PM)slubu Wrote:  

3 eggs, in coconut oil sauteed with onions and garlic
Fruit and nuts or nut butter
Protein shake

Snacks of strawberries, blueberries other fruit, potentially more nut butter

Another snack of avocados and either sardines/wild salmon (canned).

Main meal of chicken or grass-fed beef/lamb, sauteed again in coconut oil, some greens (spinach/kale) other veggies (onion garlic again) and spices.

If this is how you eat on a regular basis, you will be fine.

I don't know anything about macros/micros or calories.

I just know this...

If you are fat -- Eat less, eat better, and exercise more.

Avoid all fast food and processed food.

Sounds like you need to sleep more and drink more water.

Drinking alot of booze doesn't help either but we wont get into that because I know you will not cut back.

Your diet is perfect.

What about exercise???

What do you eat after a night of drinking???

[Major Tom]

Great article on the subject that just went up on T-Nation last week, if you guys are interested: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_arti...ible_diet.

Macros are important, and provided that you're making sensible food choices (aka mostly unprocessed food sources, and not trying to fit your macros with shit like Pop Tarts and soda), your micronutrient needs should be covered as well. A decent multivitamin with a complete profile is a pretty inexpensive way to have your bases covered, can't see any reason not to have include one as part of your supplement regimen.

[SPinker]

"To be honest I care nothing about strength. I just want to look good. Aesthetics matter more than anything for me."

   

[Every10GivesMeA10]

^Zyz is a horrible role model for guys. He had a shitty physique for being on a gram of tren a week.

[slubu]

(04-02-2013 02:58 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(04-01-2013 09:39 PM)slubu Wrote:  

3 eggs, in coconut oil sauteed with onions and garlic
Fruit and nuts or nut butter
Protein shake

Snacks of strawberries, blueberries other fruit, potentially more nut butter

Another snack of avocados and either sardines/wild salmon (canned).

Main meal of chicken or grass-fed beef/lamb, sauteed again in coconut oil, some greens (spinach/kale) other veggies (onion garlic again) and spices.

If this is how you eat on a regular basis, you will be fine.

I don't know anything about macros/micros or calories.

I just know this...

If you are fat -- Eat less, eat better, and exercise more.

Avoid all fast food and processed food.

Sounds like you need to sleep more and drink more water.

Drinking alot of booze doesn't help either but we wont get into that because I know you will not cut back.

Your diet is perfect.

What about exercise???

What do you eat after a night of drinking???

I'm doing cross-fit 3-4x a week. It's pretty damn intense. After Monday's workout I wanted to vomit. Today's was a bit easier.

I usually have sex or go to bed after drinking. I don't engage in drunken meals. I used to...but not anymore.

I do need more water. Time to get some right now.

[slubu]

Ok so I messed up my macro calculations, I forgot to invert the fat/carbs ratio for off days. The correct amount is:

Workout days:
Calories - 2856
Protein - 200g
Fat - 56g
Carbs - 375g

Rest Days:
Calories - 1904
Protein - 200g
Fat - 92g
Carbs - 69g

Rest days although the protein is hard to hit I can get there. Today is my first macro-based day after training and I have no idea how I'm going to eat this much damn food. I just ate a ton of food and I'm barely anywhere. This shit is hard, how do people eat so much?

[slubu]

(04-02-2013 10:31 PM)Major Tom Wrote:  

Great article on the subject that just went up on T-Nation last week, if you guys are interested: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_arti...ible_diet.

Macros are important, and provided that you're making sensible food choices (aka mostly unprocessed food sources, and not trying to fit your macros with shit like Pop Tarts and soda), your micronutrient needs should be covered as well. A decent multivitamin with a complete profile is a pretty inexpensive way to have your bases covered, can't see any reason not to have include one as part of your supplement regimen.

Thanks for that link, it was very well written and actually mimics the plan I'm trying to follow. Also, his variations on how to get to my numbers matches what I have, so now that I have a few sources talking about the same thing I'm more comfortable.

[Giovonny]

(04-03-2013 01:25 PM)slubu Wrote:  

After Monday's workout I wanted to vomit.

Perfect.

(04-03-2013 01:25 PM)slubu Wrote:  

I don't engage in drunken meals.

Okay, good.

(04-03-2013 01:25 PM)slubu Wrote:  

I do need more water.

Water can be boring.

Add some citrus fruit to add some flavor.

Also, make tea.

(04-03-2013 01:27 PM)slubu Wrote:  

I have no idea how I'm going to eat this much damn food.

Only eat when you are hungry.

Eat until you are satisfied, then stop

Never force yourself to eat.

If you are trying to lose belly fat, why would you force yourself to eat???

[DVY]

Haha, another tip I've started doing. Really up your carbs after a workout. Your glycogen stores are depleted and need to be replenished.

Also for aesthetics try this ab-workout. I def. struggled with.

[slubu]

DVY what's your post workout meal? I had eggs, hash browns, veggies, roast beef, blueberries. All that shit only amount to 736 calories and I'm stuffed.

Gio, trying to eat more to gain muscle. I already have a gut, so might as well add muscle? At 160-165 I think despite my slight gut it's more aesthetically pleasing to have more muscle at this point.

[WesternCancer]

Slubu throw in some fat. Easy way to get calories into a meal.

Try drinking your calories too. Make a shake with Greek yogurt, oatmeal. Coconut oil whey, avocado etc. Should be able to get 500 cals easy in a shake.

Also try digestive enzymes with your food so you digest quicker.

[WestCoast]

The importance of tracking macros = none. By tracking everything like a scientist you will stress yourself out and spike cortisol/stress hormones = makes you crave carbs = screwed. Go look around when people are stressed they eat chocolate bars/pasta.

Eat protein in the morning to make you less hungry. Ie drink a protein shake first thing.
Go to work eat organic foods
Don't eat BS like powerbars
Lift heavy
Immediately down a protein shake again.
Juice vegetables

Boom gain 10lbs of muscle and decrease in fat.

Keep it simple.

[Giovonny]

opps

will repost this later.

going to the gym

[Jaylow]

I only count my calories because that is what determines fat loss/gain. I know I have around 150-180g of protein a day and 60-100g of fat a day since I eat the same rotation of food, carbs are always whats left over.

[SPinker]

This is bad advice.

First, the man said he has good self control and probably doesn't mind counting marcos. And since he doesn't mind eating the same thing everyday, he won't have to be so attentive on a daily basis.

Second, if he's doing intermittent fasting, he shouldn't take anything first thing in the morning; especially if he wants to take advantage of his workout.

Organic is bullshit. Everyone should be eating cooked veggies anyways. The toxins that plants produce to fend off from being eaten by animals are much stronger carcinogens than the HFCS in your ketchup or artificial flavoring in your gatorade.

Also, he shouldn't lift that heavy. He should lift where he is at. Lifting heavy presupposes low reps anyways which is for strength more than muscle building (of course they aren't exclusive).

Slubu,

I think you should focus on IF + Paleo like you have and decide whether you want to rip first then clean bulk or bulk now and cut later. I would say since you're into crossfit, it would be easier to carry that intensity into fat loss (single digits); then you can reconsider your macros for a bulk when you start hitting a real gym. By then the most important things will be to track the amount and frequency you lift for every exercise you do. And also consider a 6 day/week body parts 2x/week split. Don't go to failure on any set if you do this. You'll burn out in a couple of weeks.

I've been doing this since late December (before I had been doing 3/4 day splits) and have gone from 17% bf to 12% bf. I'm @ 178, 6'0"

(04-03-2013 02:54 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

The importance of tracking macros = none. By tracking everything like a scientist you will stress yourself out and spike cortisol/stress hormones = makes you crave carbs = screwed. Go look around when people are stressed they eat chocolate bars/pasta.

Eat protein in the morning to make you less hungry. Ie drink a protein shake first thing.
Go to work eat organic foods
Don't eat BS like powerbars
Lift heavy
Immediately down a protein shake again.
Juice vegetables

Boom gain 10lbs of muscle and decrease in fat.

Keep it simple.

[Giovonny]

(04-03-2013 02:31 PM)slubu Wrote:  

Gio, trying to eat more to gain muscle. I already have a gut, so might as well add muscle? At 160-165 I think despite my slight gut it's more aesthetically pleasing to have more muscle at this point.

It can seem like a bit of a paradox..

If you want to lose your gut, you should probably should eat less.

But, if you want to gain muscle you might need to eat more.

What do you do???

You experiment and you figure out what works best for your particular body. Educate yourself as best you can, get help, and most importantly..

Learn how to best manage your body through your own trial and error.

No one else knows your body as well as you. No one is aware of your gut as much as you. No one is aware of your bowel movements as much as you. No one is aware of your hydration levels as much as you.

Surely, you will get sick of eating these particular foods and doing this particular type of workout. Then, you will have to adjust things.

If this diet and workout plan works for you, great, continue. If not, change it.

You have to learn the diet, workouts, and lifestyle that work best for you. Everyone has their own unique formula that will bring maximum results with minimum effort. Thats what you want. The diet and exercise lifestyle that bring maximum results for Slubu. And, it should be long term approach. A set of behaviors, habits and thought patterns that will cause you to be healthy, energetic and vibrant for the rest of your life.

That is a plan to bang young girls well into your 40's and 50's.

Learn your unique diet and exercise formula. Everyone is different. If counting macros and all that helps you, by all means do it, whatever is going to work for you. Results are all that matters. Learn your body. Master your body.

[Giovonny]

Also,

I think losing your gut should be a higher priority then gaining muscle. Yes, you can do both at the same time but there will be situations where you will have to choose one over the other.

For example, its 930pm, you already had a big dinner, your stomach is full and you are satisfied. But, you haven't reached all of your "numbers" as far as calories and macros, etc.

What do you do?

Well, now you have a decision to make?

Do you want to keep your gut and maybe add a bit more muscle..

Or,

Do you want to gut to get smaller and maybe not gain that little bit iof extra muscle..?

That is your dilemma...

I think you should not force yourself to eat if you are not hungry. I think you should go to bed on a slightly empty stomach.

For example:

Workout 6-730pm
Dinner 8pm
Protein shake 10pm
Sleep 11pm

Going to bed on a slightly empty stomach is the biggest key to losing your gut.

My opinion is that you should choose fat loss over muscle gain at this point. You can adjust this as your gut gets smaller.

Being thin without a gut is better then being thin with a gut. Especially, if you are getting more muscle everyday.

If you eat enough during the day, you wont have to eat so alot at night.

I think losing the gut should take priority over gaining the muscle. It will always be a bit of both but in terms of forcing yourself to eat, I say don't do it. Forcing yourself to eat is a plan to keep the gut.

If anything, force yourself to eat more during the day so you can eat less at night.

Unless you want to look like those bodybuilder guys who have a big gut and also big muscles. I don't think that is a good look for your height.

Good luck fine tuning this stuff as quickly as possible. I know it can be confusing. Thats why you have to look at your own body and look at your own daily results as the ultimate indicators of effectiveness. Do what works, avoid what doesn't.

[WestCoast]

I almost went ape shit on this post. But It's time to learn not to get into arguments with retards and trolls.

I sent you a pm slubu, you can feel free to ping these other guys and compare.

Cross fit on this blog may as well be next to this

I won't post on this thread again so feel free for everyone to come down on me.

[Giovonny]

WestCoast,

What did you think of my advice?

[Jaylow]

In terms of banging girls it would be better to lose your gut. I am in the process of cutting down to 10% bodyfat and once all my abs are showing again I will carefully watch my calories and eat 300 cals above maintenance and slowly gain muscle while keeping my 6 pack. If you are chubby you basically have to choose between staying chubby and gaining muscle or losing fat and slowly losing muscle mass.

Quote:

Going to bed on a slightly empty stomach is the biggest key to losing your gut.

They key to losing your gut is eating under your daily calorie break even point. I repeat this over and over and most people ignore me but it is the ONLY determining factor to losing weight. Not carbs, not fat.

Some things that have helped me:

-drink more water, sometimes you think you are hungry when you are actually thirsty
-almonds, they are an appetite suppressor and I found eating 3-5 of these can keep off hunger for hours. Same with an apple or certain veggies.
-Its easier to hold off hunger in the morning then it is at night just because you are occupied and cant eat at work whenever you want. I have around a 250 calorie breakfast and a 500 calorie lunch. That leaves 1250+ cals to spread out between getting home and going to bed.
-Sprinting and stomach vacuums are the 2 "magical" ab exercises

[slubu]

Thanks for all the replies guys. A few things here that may clear things up:

- There is no danger of me overeating. I tried my hardest yesterday to hit my workout day requirements (2800+ calories) and fell short by a lot, I just can't eat that much. I stopped eating yesterday at 6:30pm to fit into my IF window and this morning I am still not hungry. I basically force myself to eat a good portion of the time.

Quote:

They key to losing your gut is eating under your daily calorie break even point. I repeat this over and over and most people ignore me but it is the ONLY determining factor to losing weight. Not carbs, not fat.

- I understand that to lose the gut one is supposed to lose weight. But, how much more weight can I possibly lose? I was down to 155 before at 5'11 and I still had the mini-gut. I'm at 160 now. That's where the enigma lies - it can't be said that I'm overweight for my height. I just can't figure out what the hell I'm supposed to do.

- I can't do heavy lifting. I have pretty gnarly scoliosis so the load on my back has to be minimal. I know deadlifts, squats etc are leg based but the slightest deviation from perfect form and I'm done. That's what happened earlier this year and I had to take a month off. The good thing about cross-fit is that it still incorporates those movements, but they have such a variety of weights and plates that I can go on my own pace. Plus there is a coach walking around the entire time making sure I comport to the appropriate form. That for me is invaluable.

Maybe it's the drinking, in which case I guess i just have to accept it because I'm just not giving that up. I enjoy it too much and the fact that I can go out at night have a few drinks and bang a girl I just met is too alluring to pass up on. And I've gone out sober and it blows, I rather stay at home. Even with that, I don't drink everyday or anything like that.

Appreciate all the posts, look forward to any more info anyone has and I'll hit up a few of the guys outside the thread too for their advice since I know they know what they are doing.

[DVY]

(04-03-2013 02:31 PM)slubu Wrote:  

DVY what's your post workout meal? I had eggs, hash browns, veggies, roast beef, blueberries. All that shit only amount to 736 calories and I'm stuffed.

Bananna when I am preparing food.

1) Chicken/Steak/Pork/Turkey- 50% of plate. Sometimes sub out some meat for whole eggs.
2) Rice (I like brown) - 25% of plate
3) Black Beans - 25% of plate
4) Salsa/Guacamole - garnish
5) Blended greek yogurt 0% protein shake w/fruits and nuts for desert when watching TV - 2 servings of fage 0% greek yogurt, 5 large frozen strawberries, blueberry/raspberry frozen mix, 15 or so almonds, 1 scoop of 100% whey chocolate powder.- I feel like exploding after this...

W/these meals, I seem to gain weight, but not pack on flab. Your frame fills out and the fat seems less visible. Another benefit of increased muscles is that your resting metabolism becomes much higher, so when you do cut, you burn more calories.

At the end of the day, I agree w/ Gio. Everybody is different. Give every diet a 3-week trial run and check the mirror everyday for general changes (pre and post gym).

[Giovonny]

(04-04-2013 12:18 AM)Jaylow Wrote:  

They key to losing your gut is eating under your daily calorie break even point.

Yeah, I guess that's true..

But, what if all my calories come from candy and soda? Would I still lose my gut???

I doubt it. I think I would just become really skinny but with a fat gut.

You wanna lose a gut?

Eat cleaner, eat less, workout harder, limit your eating at night. Wake up and look in the mirror. If you gut got smaller, you are doing it right. If your gut got bigger or stayed the same, you need to eat less at night, workout harder, and eat cleaner.

If you still don't see results, limit yourself to vegetables/salad/vege juice only for dinner, you will lose that gut.

(04-04-2013 09:40 AM)slubu Wrote:  

how much more weight can I possibly lose?

How much does your gut weigh???

Thats how much more weight you can lose.

I think its about 10-12 pounds.

You can lose about 10-12 pounds from your belly.

That would put you down to about 150lbs...

But, if you add 5 pounds of muscle, you are back to 155, except with a smaller gut.

That is your answer - About 10-12 pounds of fat.

(04-04-2013 09:40 AM)slubu Wrote:  

That's where the enigma lies - it can't be said that I'm overweight for my height.

Technically speaking, you are not overweight. 5'11, 160 pounds sounds perfect.

But, the issue for you is how this weight is distributed...

Too much of this weight is fat. Too much of this weight is in your gut.

Technically, you are not overweight.

But, realistically, you have a gut.

Visually, you have a gut.

Practically, you have a gut.

Sexually, you have a gut.

Your height and weight are only okay on paper.

In person, to the naked eye, your height and weight and not symmetrical and aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

For all intents and purposes, you are overweight.

There is no enigma. You need to lose 10-12 pounds off of your belly.

(04-04-2013 09:40 AM)slubu Wrote:  

I just can't figure out what the hell I'm supposed to do.

Here's what you are supposed to do..

Look in the mirror every morning. Did your gut get smaller?

If it did, repeat what you did the day before, it worked.

If your gut gets bigger or stay the same size, adjust what you did the day before.

This means eating better quality food throughout the day, working out harder, and eating less at night.

Thats how you do it. You monitor your gut everyday and make adjustments everyday.

You should see results everyday.

If I was your personal trainer your gut would get smaller everyday.

You would eat nothing but fresh fish and vegetables at night. You would go to bed on an empty stomach and in the morning you would wake up with a smaller gut. I would also have you drinking alot of fresh vegetable juice.

Fresh fruits and vegetables literally collect all the fat in your belly and push it into your bladder so you can shit it out. Thats what you should be eating at night. A bit of quality protein and a big salad or vege juice.

If I lived with you for 6 weeks, you would have no gut and you would be a day game beast.

(04-04-2013 09:40 AM)slubu Wrote:  

Maybe it's the drinking

You can drink and still lose your gut.

Look at Roosh. He drinks alot but he is still in great shape. I know alot of guys who drink alot but they also eat clean and workout alot. I know guys who drink 3-4 times a week and they have a 6-pack.

You can still drink, just eat better and eat less at night.

Look in the mirror everyday, make adjustments everyday. If you don't see results every 48-72 hours, your diet is not good enough. If your gut is not getting smaller every 48-72 hours, you are still eating too much at night. You should wake up in the morning feeling hungry and needing to eat right away. If you wake up and you are not hungry, then you still have too much food in your belly from the day before. This is bad.

Eat clean all day, workout hard, go to bed on a slightly empty stomach, wake up hungry, thats how you lose a gut.

If you wake up and you are not hungry, you ate too much the night before.

Don't worry about muscle gain right now, lose the gut first, then you can re-adjust your diet for muscle gaining.

Losing a gut is actually easy, if you follow the steps above.

[Jaylow]

Quote:

But, what if all my calories come from candy and soda? Would I still lose my gut???

I doubt it. I think I would just become really skinny but with a fat gut.

As long as you ate under your daily calorie maintenance you would lose weight and gain a 6 pack. You cannot spot reduce fat, meaning, you cannot directly target an area on your body and lose fat just in that one place. You can directly target an area to create muscle but lowering bodyfat slowly takes away that fat from everywhere on you and is different on a person to person basis to which area loses fat the most first. Some guys can be close to 20% bodyfat and have all their abs visible while their ass and legs have the majority of their excess fat for example. The opposite is true as well, you cannot increase fat in a certain area on your body and candy/soda will not magically give you a gut while you lose weight everywhere else.

Ive had a 6 pack once in my life for the span of about a year. During the path to get there I ate 3 Wendy's Baconators, around 4 packages of those green sour skittles, 2 tubs of icecream etc. all in one week. You have to be in the top 99.9% in will power to eat perfectly "clean" for a long period of time or you could understand weight loss and what your goals are and realize you can fit in any food or junk food you want and still reach your goals.

To directly answer your question, if all your calories came from soda and candy you would be deficient in almost every vitamin and mineral and you wouldnt be eating the healthy fats or making your protein requirements to gain/maintain muscle mass. You would still lose weight and you would get a 6 pack as long as you constantly were under your daily calorie breakeven point. Fat loss is based purely on calories, its something this board still doesn't understand.