[Ryre]

Gentlemen, I want your help. I've been in the game off and on for a few years, right now I am trying to get my mojo back after a long period of not being very active.

I've got a recurrent problem of being out with a girl with whom the vibe is good enough to go for the makeout, but not being able to set up the right circumstances for it to happen. Example: first date recently at a classy bar, group dance lesson followed by a little dancing, drink and conversation. By the time we leave I think the odds of making out are good. But we spilled out onto the street without a plan, in a neighborhood not near either of our houses.

I tried to sort of pull her around a corner and just kiss her on the street, but the corner I chose turned out to be under construction, not at all conducive, and she sort of physically maneuvered away from the kiss. We wandered around a little and I wound up dropping her at the metro entrance--awkward hug goodnight.

Yes, I know I screwed up. I'd wanted to pull her to an intimate spot in the bar itself, but the couches were all taken.

Maybe this isn't realistic, but I'm hoping for a one-size-fits-all, default approach for situations like this. My knowledge of night spots isn't good enough that I know of intimate little bars near every place that I might be--especially given that bars are different from night to night. Nor, as this incident shows, can I rely on finding a good spot in the bar we are already in.

I guess the obvious solution is to plan all dates for my neighborhood and have the venues scouted in advance...have a plan for how things will progress. I'm just tired spoiling the moment with girls who probably would make out with me if the circumstances are right, but who aren't comfortable doing it in a crowded bar, on the sidewalk, or at the metro entrance.

(I should say I've read the recent First-date Bang Recipe posts, for both home and away game. Good stuff, a little advanced for where I am at. The pick-and-roll is great, but right now I am just trying to remember how to make a layup.)

[Matt3B]

You need to have a plan before you go out. If you're winging it, then this will happen.

If you don't know the area you're taking her to, go and scope it out beforehand and when you have future dates, go to the same area so you're familiar with it and have a decent plan of action ready made. If you have an idea of other bars, when you see the couches in your current bar are taken, you can just bounce her to another place.

I follow a three bar bounce rule, starting off somewhere open, second place somewhere where I can sit closer to her and third place where we can be isolated. Why stay in the same place all night, especially if you know the logistics are killing you? You need to show you're in control and that you know what you're doing, she will appreciate that a lot more and will find you more attractive for being so.

Guys are shooting themselves in the foot not having a plan and just sticking to the same place. Girls' hamsters get comfortable if you stay in one place and she feels in control of the situation which means she's less likely to put out, as in your situation. You want to disorientate her hamster, make her feel like she's taking a risk and that you're her safeguard in the unknown of which you're taking her in.

[Menace]

Things "just happen" only to girls. Men make things happen. If you fail to plan, plan to fail. This has happened to me many times.

I'm not sure whether it makes sense to go for the bang right away at your stage, or to have slightly less lofty goals. I think you need to develop a solid date routine, ideally near your house. You can try starting at a place that is "friendly", i.e. well lit, then bounce to a more dimly lit venue where a) they serve alcohol, and b) you can sit next to her. If you can't (or don't) sit next to her it is all a waste of time IMHO. Kiss her at your final venue when she's tipsy and comfortable.

Repeat many times at the same places. That will make you more comfortable, and thus more confident.

[scorpion]

The tag-team combo of MattC and Menace just dropped a double dose of wisdom in concentrated form. Nothing else needs to be said here in my opinion, the rest is commentary.

[bojangles]

In addition frequently visiting these bars and leaving good tips will get you in with the staff and they'll do everything to make you look boss in front of your dates. MattC and Menace have hit the nail on the head.

[Ryre]

Thanks. Guess I was hoping for a magic fix, but sounds like there is no substitute for a tight, well-researched game plan.

[AneroidOcean]

(03-15-2013 10:20 AM)Ryre Wrote:  

Gentlemen, I want your help. I've been in the game off and on for a few years, right now I am trying to get my mojo back after a long period of not being very active.

I've got a recurrent problem of being out with a girl with whom the vibe is good enough to go for the makeout, but not being able to set up the right circumstances for it to happen. Example: first date recently at a classy bar, group dance lesson followed by a little dancing, drink and conversation. By the time we leave I think the odds of making out are good. But we spilled out onto the street without a plan, in a neighborhood not near either of our houses.

I tried to sort of pull her around a corner and just kiss her on the street, but the corner I chose turned out to be under construction, not at all conducive, and she sort of physically maneuvered away from the kiss. We wandered around a little and I wound up dropping her at the metro entrance--awkward hug goodnight.

Yes, I know I screwed up. I'd wanted to pull her to an intimate spot in the bar itself, but the couches were all taken.

Maybe this isn't realistic, but I'm hoping for a one-size-fits-all, default approach for situations like this. My knowledge of night spots isn't good enough that I know of intimate little bars near every place that I might be--especially given that bars are different from night to night. Nor, as this incident shows, can I rely on finding a good spot in the bar we are already in.

I guess the obvious solution is to plan all dates for my neighborhood and have the venues scouted in advance...have a plan for how things will progress. I'm just tired spoiling the moment with girls who probably would make out with me if the circumstances are right, but who aren't comfortable doing it in a crowded bar, on the sidewalk, or at the metro entrance.

(I should say I've read the recent First-date Bang Recipe posts, for both home and away game. Good stuff, a little advanced for where I am at. The pick-and-roll is great, but right now I am just trying to remember how to make a layup.)

You sound like you had a decent enough start of a date, but you had two major errors. One is that your choice is not a good first date. A 2nd or 3rd date? Sure, but not a first date. Remember, you're just interviewing her to see if she's worthy of your time. Two, you had no options after the beginning of the date, which leaves you the default option of "going home." If you didn't want to go home, you should've made up ANYTHING to move past your mistake. Got a smart phone? Tell her you feel like grabbing a drink at some place new (or shoot some pool or something). Pull up yelp and look at it WITH her so that she's actively engaged in the process and is comfortable (and hopefully having fun helping you choose). Find a park nearby, find anything. Anything is better than the default option.

(03-15-2013 11:53 AM)Ryre Wrote:  

Thanks. Guess I was hoping for a magic fix, but sounds like there is no substitute for a tight, well-researched game plan.

A tight, well-researched game plan is ideal, but even a half-baked backup plan with a semi-researched main plan is better than what you had. I'm not being a prick, just straight up feedback. The great thing about it is that you have nowhere to go but up. What others have said about having a place on lock down (cue G Manifesto) is absolutely true. I'd much rather go to a "less classy" place that I can afford to have on lock down than a classier place.

(03-15-2013 10:20 AM)Ryre Wrote:  

I tried to sort of pull her around a corner and just kiss her on the street, but the corner I chose turned out to be under construction, not at all conducive, and she sort of physically maneuvered away from the kiss. We wandered around a little and I wound up dropping her at the metro entrance--awkward hug goodnight.

I'm surprised nobody else has pointed this out, but I think you're not building enough attraction. This is NOT the reaction of a girl that wants to kiss you.

[The Come Back]

Thank you Mattc and Menace, you def fixed a major flaw in my usual plan. venue change with a purpose.

[Belize King]

Should be in newbie thread or bump another thread.

You have to remember that women are all stupid. You may have dropped the ball but you might have not. Regardless the second date you know what to do. I would cook at your place. Wine and a movie. Bang bang bang. Choose that Silver lining playbook shit. You will be good if she is into you and not a prune.

[MrXY]

(03-15-2013 02:52 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

I'm surprised nobody else has pointed this out, but I think you're not building enough attraction. This is NOT the reaction of a girl that wants to kiss you.

You're right. The problem was not where the OP tried to kiss her, it was that she didn't want him to kiss her.

If a girl wants to make out with you and/or fuck you she will do so in a crowded bar, a nightclub, an alley, a car,the street, a stairwell, the woods, your place, her place, her friends couch, an empty lot, the bedroom at a house party, a bar toilet, the beach......

The first date was too formal and elaborate; it showed too much investment . First dates should be casual-you want to give the girl the sense that you have one foot out of the date and could bolt at any moment if she is boring, uncooperative or obnoxious. In fact, you should bolt from time to time if the date is not going well-this helps give you the proper attitude, which is that she is there to win you over, you're not there to win her over.

I always have a plan in mind when I go on a date or even out to cold approach. Have several good venues in mind that you can bounce to easily. I like to start at a place I have locked down where I can impress her and talk a bit, then move to either to more party oriented places for drinking or to a quieter place with seating that's good for escalation

[Cyclone]

Isn't having too much of a plan a buzzkiller? I for one was always about spontaneity, just because it boosts my state and mood and get the group into a freewheeling mood. For those that *do* set up a rigid plan i.e. go from pt. A to pt. B to pt. C... does it throw you for a loop when things dont go as planned? Perhaps I just don't work with a stable attitude..
.

[Lazarus]

(03-19-2013 05:31 PM)Cyclone Wrote:  

Isn't having too much of a plan a buzzkiller? I for one was always about spontaneity, just because it boosts my state and mood and get the group into a freewheeling mood. For those that *do* set up a rigid plan i.e. go from pt. A to pt. B to pt. C... does it throw you for a loop when things dont go as planned? Perhaps I just don't work with a stable attitude..
.

I'm a noob, and someone more experienced can correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be better to know your area so you have all these options you can go to and whatever you want to do you can pick a place and get there in as short a time as possible.

[Jaylow]

(03-19-2013 05:31 PM)Cyclone Wrote:  

Isn't having too much of a plan a buzzkiller? I for one was always about spontaneity, just because it boosts my state and mood and get the group into a freewheeling mood. For those that *do* set up a rigid plan i.e. go from pt. A to pt. B to pt. C... does it throw you for a loop when things dont go as planned? Perhaps I just don't work with a stable attitude..
.

Not getting laid is the buzzkiller. What is your priority: fucking the girl or exploring new pubs/bars?

It is spontaneous to the girl why does it have to be for you? and like the pros have already said in this thread, having a plan is the key. You want an expensive night with a failed kiss in front of Metro or do you want to be at your most comfortable seducing a cute girl and getting laid at the end?