[John Galt2]

End of the half and its Cads 4, Dads 3, with several neutral comments.

Some additional comments - a few of you made too much of my word "legacy" and I probably shouldn't have used the word twice, so my bad. I used it more as a catch all of the fatherhood experience (the act of creating a human being, the joy of teaching a young man how to grow in the world, true love, etc). There is definitely more to it than simply passing on my genes for further generations.

I think bacon makes some excellent points. Some men crave the possibility of raising lots of rug rats and being the coach of little league and getting elected to the school board, etc (my best friend from childhood has 4 kids and loves that shit...but he also looks 10 years older than me!) but for a lot of guys (myself included) there is no underlying to desire to "complete yourself" by having kids. Let me provide a cynical, though all too common scenario on the typical process - mom & dad constantly tired, worried, no free time for about 20 years, with the occasional proud moment when Bobby makes the team or Suzie gets in the honor society. And after ALL that sacrifice, the kids go to college out of state, get a job even further away, and you see them twice a year until you are sick or dead. Wow, that was worth it!

To answer Big Nilla's questions,

1. What types/nationalities of girls are you into that aren't American? My physical preferences are dark haired girls with great skin so I usually go first for the southern euro vibe (Greek, Italian, Croatian) and also Asian and Hispanics. For some reason Asians seem to dig me much more than any other ethnic group so I probably hit that group more than others.
2. Where would you consider living outside the USA? Great question, I haven't thought it through with any depth. At this point, I would only exclude Africa.

[JohnnyAppleSeeds]

Another good thread delving into what life should consist of. Obviously there is no answer or solution for everyone.

Personally I'm in my early 30's and only now starting to figure out what I want from life and how I'm going to obtain it.

I don't think its a stretch to say most of the people I've known never even began to think along those lines. Most of my friends are married with kids and it's interesting to see how their lives are playing out.

I have 2 friends who are already divorced with one of them already re-married. Another friend just married a beast of a girl who immediately put on 20+ pounds after marriage, I can't see how they could possibly last and the only reason I can think of why they would get married is lack of options, they settled, this guy doesn't even get blowjobs from his wife, horrible existance. Another friend who def got all kinds of ass back in the day is now married to the girl he knocked up in his early 20's, at first he didn't even like her but she "grew on him", now they have a house, 2 kids, a dog, guy works his ass off and all he ever gets is shit from his bitch wife who is 20+ pounds over weight now and her fat ass family too. He really seems like a broken man and finds his own little things to do to keep sanity i guess. I honestly try to limit my trips over there as I can't stomach it when she starts tearing him a new ass in front of people. Another friend is married with a young daughter, he works constantly and makes 100k+ in a stressful environment and he doesn't really have much to show for it. He goes to Vegas for a batchelor party; she's on FB bragging about taking his credit cards shopping, etc. I know of exactly 1 individual who is probably content and happy being married with a child and that is probably because he has a good wife and is still challenging himself in his profession.

Now that was a bit of a rant on marriage but it's relevant in that while I've never been married or had children (one miscarriage in my teenage years) my suggestion would be that if anyone wants kids then do it but don't get married. Married women seem to live a life of tv and gossip, all the while wanting to show off materialistic things to their friends to PROVE they have a good life. I feel as though FB is making this type of behaviour more prominent. (Is your bitch taking a picture of that $35 entree at dinner because she appreciates it or because she knows her FB friends will appreciate it? And guess what happens when your not taking your girl out and she sees all her friends wining and dining on FB?)

I've said before I work in the medical field and with that comes a given that most of my co-workers are women. All I can say is that even with having this forum as a warning it is incomprehensible how irrational and emotional women truly are...

The amount of gossip they exchange is ridiculous, think Wifey is keeping your actions, behavior and personal info a secret? Think again... I don't think there is a more intolerable sound than 5 women speaking at the same time...

Even as a man who gets a kick out of being around little kids and teaching them things I'm reconsidering if I really want a family or not. Even though I'm someone who everyone says would be a great Dad I'm hesitant to go that route because man that shit entails a lot!

You never know what will happen in the coming days, weeks, years but I am convinced that it will take some seriously impressive, younger, (probably Latin) girl for me to get married (pre-nup will be a must!). In the meantime I'll be focused on creating a passive income stream to allow myself (and any future kids) to live the life I want.

With all that said I didn't have my Father around from a young age so if I personally go that route then I would be 100% committed and my kids would be some smart ass mofos approaching the world and life from a different angle than 99% of the people out there.

DO YOU, to the best of your ability.

[rudebwoy]

I think alot of guys here are young and a bit narrow minded, so I will take a different view.
Personally, I know a man in his 70's who never had a child. He was in great health, former professor, lived alone in a nice house and seemed content with his life. He had an accident in his home and laid there for a couple of days, someone found him and he was still alive but had suffered a stroke in the meantime. Now he spends his time in a shitty nursing home and the government looks after his affairs.

While there is no guarantee that your children will look after you when you are old, the chances are still better than if you never had any. This is not an isolated incident, I have a few more and I visit another family friend in a nursing home which can be very depressing.

Personally, I wouldn't mind having a child in another country and running around a few more years til I am ready to settle down. As you get older you will realize that the world does not revolve around you and your time is short. Don't plan because plans change, like the cliche says "just do it". We will never know what tomorrow will bring!

[ausnat]

Hey first post, think I can add some value here

My gf got knocked up when I was 21, son was born, gf was out riding other men behind my back ect ect I looked after my son full time for a while and have half custody now . I love my son to death but have to admit that you will need to adjust your game significantly. No more night game means a focus on day game and street game. I hit my peak with women in 2011 when I slept with 18 from day game (23 for the year) and in was a broke single father who lived with my parents, so I have no doubt that you can game a large amount of women if you put your mind to it if things don't work out and you have kids.

Couple of other things I noticed:
women assumed I wanted a relationship when they found out about my son
Older women found me more attractive
Diminished ability to relate with younger western women
Women don't care that I have a son
Asian/fobs/south Americans seem to find me more attractive when I tell them I have a child

If you do have kids its hard to get the work/family/game balance right as my studies suffered significantly.

[worldwidetraveler]

(01-21-2013 06:29 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

I think alot of guys here are young and a bit narrow minded, so I will take a different view.
Personally, I know a man in his 70's who never had a child. He was in great health, former professor, lived alone in a nice house and seemed content with his life. He had an accident in his home and laid there for a couple of days, someone found him and he was still alive but had suffered a stroke in the meantime. Now he spends his time in a shitty nursing home and the government looks after his affairs.

I don't understand this logic. Probably because I see things differently. I wouldn't expect my kids to be checking up on me everyday so even with kids I would still be lying on the floor for days.

If I suffered from a stroke, the last thing I would want is my kid having to waste their life taking care of me.

Quote:

As you get older you will realize that the world does not revolve around you and your time is short.

The older I get the more I make the world revolve around me. Like you said, we have limited time on this earth so why waste it doing things that don't make you happy.

I definitely agree on the planning stuff. You can map out your life and then realize later you weren't even close.

Kids are great. I just think the only good reason to have them is because you would enjoy being a father. I would not have a kid for reasons like legacy, worrying about assets when you're dead, or taking care of you when you are old.

[JohnnyAppleSeeds]

Rubebwoy reminded me of something I wanted to add in reference to working in the medical field... I come across a lot of elderly patients and throughout the hundreds of these individuals NOT 1 of them has complained or talked badly about being single and not having kids.(This could also be a case where they truly are lonely and just ready to die. Admit-tingly these are few and far between as I'm talking about people being born between 1915-1940 when birth-control wasn't exactly prominent...)

With that said I can't tell you how many of these elderly patients who are still in good mental health openly and completely bash their children or spouses.

I try to talk with the elderly about as much as I can, I see them as vast resources into life and history (not to mention I didn't have my Dad around from a young age). The overwhelming majority of them encourage exploring things your interested in and living the life you truly want no matter the obstacles that may currently be in your way.

They light up when discussing pre-marriage/family times though; being in the service, boxing, causing trouble, chasing girls, etc... When your 70-90 and your quality of life is on a severe downturn what will be the times you wish to relive? I guess it's different for everyone.

I also didn't mention how a time-machine often gets brought up with my married friends and not once has 1 of them say I wish I could go back in time to be a better husband or be a better father. It's ALWAYS if I could go back in time how they would focus on chasing tail...

[bacon]

(01-21-2013 06:29 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

I think alot of guys here are young and a bit narrow minded, so I will take a different view.
Personally, I know a man in his 70's who never had a child. He was in great health, former professor, lived alone in a nice house and seemed content with his life. He had an accident in his home and laid there for a couple of days, someone found him and he was still alive but had suffered a stroke in the meantime. Now he spends his time in a shitty nursing home and the government looks after his affairs.

While there is no guarantee that your children will look after you when you are old, the chances are still better than if you never had any. This is not an isolated incident, I have a few more and I visit another family friend in a nursing home which can be very depressing.

this guy didnt have any siblings, close friends or other family to manage his affairs? if not he should have put a lawyer on retainer who would manage his accounts. this is not that hard to do, i think its called legal guardianship, anyway the lawyer gets a monthy payment and in exchange he pays for your nursing home/medical bills. there are lots of ways to set this up. the point is reach old age with money and there are options so you dont end up living in some shitty government assisted living facility til you die.
also consider how depressing it would be to be sitting in a nursing home and not have your kids call or visit you.

[xsplat]

(01-21-2013 11:30 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 11:26 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Whos got your back in your golden years? Your Russian girlfriend?

My ten Thai and Filipino nurses. The sponge baths will be more fun.

Wow - I think you've just stumbled upon a great business idea. Luxury retirement homes and villas for westerners in the Philipines, staffed with prostitutes, all vying to be cut into the will.

Man - that's an investment idea.

[rudebwoy]

Bacon - that is my point, he is waiting to die with one side of his body paralyzed and no one to care about him. He has family but they don't bother with him because they are not going to get any of his estate.

The sensible thing would have been to get a lawyer, but alot of these guys are old school and don't really think about stuff like. After all we are ALL going to live long and healthy lives right!

[xsplat]

(01-21-2013 07:10 PM)bacon Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 06:29 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

I think alot of guys here are young and a bit narrow minded, so I will take a different view.
Personally, I know a man in his 70's who never had a child. He was in great health, former professor, lived alone in a nice house and seemed content with his life. He had an accident in his home and laid there for a couple of days, someone found him and he was still alive but had suffered a stroke in the meantime. Now he spends his time in a shitty nursing home and the government looks after his affairs.

While there is no guarantee that your children will look after you when you are old, the chances are still better than if you never had any. This is not an isolated incident, I have a few more and I visit another family friend in a nursing home which can be very depressing.

this guy didnt have any siblings, close friends or other family to manage his affairs? if not he should have put a lawyer on retainer who would manage his accounts. this is not that hard to do, i think its called legal guardianship, anyway the lawyer gets a monthy payment and in exchange he pays for your nursing home/medical bills. there are lots of ways to set this up. the point is reach old age with money and there are options so you dont end up living in some shitty government assisted living facility til you die.
also consider how depressing it would be to be sitting in a nursing home and not have your kids call or visit you.

I usually have an LTR who is emotionally bonded to me, so the idea of being alone when I die seems unlikely.

The idea of family includes our mates - we adopt girls to become our family. And that adoption process can take just a few months. Six weeks is plenty of time for a girl to fall in love.

The oldest broad I ever dated was 48, and she said she felt like a teenager again. We only age on the outside. Her emotions were that of any young girl. I'm already ugly, so I believe that even at 70 or 80 I'll somehow manage to still be able to get women to fall in love with me.

And if not love, I'll manage something else. An arrangment that appears similar enough.

Women fall out of love when you are down and out, but I've also heard of them remaining doting through illness to death. That would be in their favor, as they get more severance pay that way than through divorce theft. Womens emotions follow opportunity, and there is opportunity in old age and death.

It's grim business, but I'll invest in it. Children are a worse gamble for elderly care than LTR game, in my opinion.

[Big Nilla]

(01-21-2013 06:08 PM)John Galt2 Wrote:  

(my best friend from childhood has 4 kids and loves that shit...but he also looks 10 years older than me!) but for a lot of guys (myself included) there is no underlying to desire to "complete yourself" by having kids. Let me provide a cynical, though all too common scenario on the typical process - mom & dad constantly tired, worried, no free time for about 20 years, with the occasional proud moment when Bobby makes the team or Suzie gets in the honor society. And after ALL that sacrifice, the kids go to college out of state, get a job even further away, and you see them twice a year until you are sick or dead. Wow, that was worth it!

To answer Big Nilla's questions,

1. What types/nationalities of girls are you into that aren't American? My physical preferences are dark haired girls with great skin so I usually go first for the southern euro vibe (Greek, Italian, Croatian) and also Asian and Hispanics. For some reason Asians seem to dig me much more than any other ethnic group so I probably hit that group more than others.
2. Where would you consider living outside the USA? Great question, I haven't thought it through with any depth. At this point, I would only exclude Africa.

I think just as important as whether to have kids or not is where you will be located when raising them because your location has a multiplier effect (good or bad) on the whole thing... specifically your happiness and the kids' development. I think it may be best for you to work backwards and figure out location first.

You know the odds are against you if you got married, had a relationship with an American, and/or have kids in the USA... so those are pretty much no-go's. You have too much to lose to go that route.

In a non-western country you can get a maid for $150-300 a month. That frees your woman of stress and time doing trivial things which she can then focus on you and the children. So most likely you don't really need to worry about a lack of free time and constantly being tired. Another benefit being outside the USA is you'll probably being eating more natural, healthier foods... increasing your energy.

And since you'll be outside the USA, you lessen the odds of that scenario you mentioned of a lot of sacrifice, few proud moments, and then barely ever seeing the kid once they're out of high school ever happening.

Just going off this board, forget about Italian and Greek women. Play the odds and go with Asian or Latin women.

Main point: Do things in reverse and find a non-western location that fits you first. Then the kid part will come easy imo.

[RichieP]

(01-21-2013 07:10 PM)bacon Wrote:  

this guy didnt have any siblings, close friends or other family to manage his affairs? if not he should have put a lawyer on retainer who would manage his accounts. this is not that hard to do, i think its called legal guardianship, anyway the lawyer gets a monthy payment and in exchange he pays for your nursing home/medical bills. there are lots of ways to set this up. the point is reach old age with money and there are options so you dont end up living in some shitty government assisted living facility til you die.
also consider how depressing it would be to be sitting in a nursing home and not have your kids call or visit you.

+1. Having kids is a very roundabout way of ensuring things will be alright when you're older. There may be some great reasons to have them, but IMO that isn't one.

There's other more direct (and way more reliable) ways to maximize your quality of life in old age, as you say. Financial contingencies, taking complete responsibility for your health throughout your life, cultivating a strong support network.

Being willing to ask the tough questions such as "what would happen if...", when they become pertinent, and then finding a suitable contingency. Planning ahead.

[Captain Ahab]

(01-21-2013 06:29 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

As you get older you will realize that the world does not revolve around you and your time is short.

It took me twenty nine years on this earth and thousands of fuck ups to realize that truth. The ego is a very powerful thing.

[Pepini]

It´s my kids first birthday today.

Here´s how it goes:

When my girlfriend told me she was pregnant, I was truly happy. I´ve already travelled to eastern europe and Brazil to see the best looking woman in the world. So I was sick of sluts and of travelling just for the sack of travelling.
I don´t believe in having a kid outside marriage, nor abortion, so I got married 2 days before he was born (with a prenup) and the posibility of abortion was never on the table.

The 9 months went by ok. But the anxiety you get is brutal. I´ve gained probably 20 kilos on the last month.
Soon as I knew he was a boy I got even more happy.
The thoughts you get are: will the kid be born alright?, will he have 10 fingers? both eyes? will he have some mental illness?
Also in the last 2 months it´s hard to bang your wife. You can´t travel from the 6 month, and by travel I mean more than 1 hour car ride. So your stuck.
The kid was born normal. The first three months are a living hell. Really a living hell. He needs to eat every 2 hours. So you wake up every 2 hours. Also there´s changing the diaper and giving him bath.
You don´t know why he´s crying. It might be hungry, shit, sleepy, have stomach aches (In this case you need to put a thermoter up his ass), have snot in his nose (in this case you have to take the snot with a mini vacum cleaner). He can´t speak, so you don´t know what the fuck is wrong with him.
I´ve lost clients while in the first three months. Clients will not give a fuck you haven´t slept. Some will, and those are priority in my work nowadays.
As time passes it gets better. After the three months pass, you start sleeping all night.
This is a situation when you need your family. Without relatives, it would have been ten times worst.
You also don´t travel after he was born. I´ve travelled with my wife 15 days when he was 6 months, and he changed dramatically. He was much bigger. You don´t want to miss that. So I told my wife I would never travel without him. We will have time when he leaves to college. t´s been 5 months since I´ve travelled.

What drastic changes I´ve noticed? First the pressure. The level of pressure increased 200%. It´s not you alone in this planet. You have obligations and need to fulfill them. Call me beta or whatever. Second the attention is geared towards the kid. But that´s ok. Third your stuck. Before I thought about things like applying for a job like Kona advertised some time ago, there´s also a opening for Rio de Janeiro. Now, I look at the benefits. Health insurance, etc, etc. I have no intentions on living in another country, except if it gives my family better conditions. Fourth I´ve been driven away from some friends. This part sucks. But you start having less and less in common. Even in this forum, the first section I would glance would be the travel one. I can´t remenber the last time I´ve looked into it.

For my practice, (lawyer), I´ve been thinking a lot about moving to another more safe job. Even though I get pleasure from lawyering and beating sluts in court. There´s a greater good to be acknowledge. Safety net if something happens to me.

Be prepared to pay for papers, food, doctors, toys, eating chair, car chair, stroller, etc, etc.

To answer to the op, yes it was worth it. If I had the chance to change the past, I would not change it. It gives you a meaning. And most of all it´s not a question of legacy, it´s a question of dinasty. I want to create my own dinasty. For that I need to increase my finantial means, to have more 5-10 kids.
Something like kennedys. Maybe I will have to get into money laudering .

I´ve been to the funeral of my first client. A truly great man. Even though he was a self-made real estate millionaire he was the kind of person whith who you feel good talking to. A dirty cheap bastard. But also a fair and cool one. In the funeral, even though he gave donations, the only people there was his 3 kids and me.

[Samseau]

Pepini what kind of a woman is your baby mama?

[jvent68]

This is an issue that only now in my mid 40's am I able to speak to confidently. The perspective of some one who is getting old, realizing physical limitations, and hormonally slowing down, I can give you a perspective from 10 years in your future-self.


Based on your question "is it worth it", I'd have to say DON'T DO IT. Having children is "not worth it" within the frame of your questions. You've got snot-nosed kids who need a diaper change on one hand, and you have a pile of money and 2 different hot chicks to blow you every day on the other hand. Those things cannot be reconciled. Doing homework with your daughter, teaching her to skateboard or to change a tire, it is not on par with fucking a semi stranger in and hourly hotel room.

You will be forever miserable giving up the chicks.

For me, after 10 years of living in Honolulu, HI and playing the beach and college and club scene ad nauseous. I married a Japanese lady I met at a bus stop at university, and now 15 years later, and 2 kids later--I would not change my situation for anything, and I've never been more satisfied, happy, and fulfilled as a father and husband. We have sex several times a week, my wife keeps super fit, tan, and turn me on as much as ever. Several times in our marriage my wife has let me fuck her friends, usually a friend that us visiting us from Japan or my wife will set me up with a massage girl every once and a while. She tells me that as long as I just fuck the friend once and that's it, she could care less. It is more important to my wife that I keep up my side of the deal, which I do my best. We are like a kid-raising-duo, together in there for the fight, and to solve the next set of problems or issues to keep things moving forward.


Do we fight sometimes? Yes. Do I get tired and sick of working and taking care of kids? Yes. Would I like to be 25 years old again? For sure! But would I want to go back to being single and hustling ass and working the bar and beach scene? Not a chance.... I was ready to give up the game, I played as many times as I wanted to, and I never considered going back for a second.


But then again, I have a groovy wife too.

It isn't something I can paint a picture of and make you want it. Having children transcends certain things. No knock to you--but you are asking the wrong question, so don't do it.

You would be miserable.

(01-20-2013 02:45 PM)John Galt2 Wrote:  

[Wrote this in a previous post but had a bad title so reposting]

I know there are a few dads on here whose views I respect (Tenderman, El Mechanico, Mark Minter) so wanted to get current Dad's take on kids, and if they are worth giving up the bachelor lifestyle.

So here is my situation - 38, live in Chicago, economically independent (cashed out from a successful startup), location independent (I recently started running a small business I can operate from just about anywhere), travel to 3-5 countries annually, in shape, spin plates, with well over 100 notches. My married (beta) buddies like to ask the standard "so what did you do last weekend?" and I always respond with "anything I wanted".

My lifestyle is pretty hard to beat, to be honest. However, I do think about leaving a legacy and having children (in my biased opinion, I think I would be a great dad) so I am somewhat conflicted. And I also believe the best way to raise a kid is with a mom and dad in the same household (whether they are technically married or not matters less). The only reason I would even consider marriage is in order to raise a family. I assume most of the dads on here are divorced so they have probably already gone through the ringer (assets confiscated, see your kids less, etc). So is having a legacy worth all that? And even if you are currently married, are they worth the drastic change in lifestyle? I find most people are inherently biased when asked this question in person because if they answer no, then they are some "monster who hates their children", which is nonsense. So everyone says yes, of course kids are worth it! But since this is a somewhat anonymous board, hopefully people can be more forthcoming.

If a man in my situation goes down that path, we all know the risks are ENORMOUS, from trying to find a decent wife who can be a good mother, financial risks, every day lifestyle risk, etc etc. So will John Jr be worth all that???

Comments from dads very much appreciated.

- JG

[east and west]

the question is quite simple.

forget about all the retirement and money and stuff

just ask
are you ready to settle down fr a family?and if not. why not