[Hooligan Harry]

Russian and EE women are not one and the same. Just like the women of Latin America tend to differ, its going to be the same in EE and Russia. Its also important to remember that there are different ethnicities too.

So what I describe is hardcore Russian, and then tends to become more moderate the further west you move. I have always said on this forum that western concepts of game fall flat there, and for some reason guys seem to think that the shit they do at home is going to work when they are abroad or dealing with women from these places. You need to adjust.

They dont like small talk and they find it pointless. They dont understand the never ending joking and what they see as fake smiling. They dont understand why you are pretending to be interested in them when you are after one thing, yet you dont make your intentions clear. They dont do innuendo and subtly. Cocky behavior is seen as rude. A lot of what westerners do they would consider juvenile and idiotic. They have a dislike for braggarts and men who attention whore. They dont understand why we dont like silence in social settings.

Basically, they find the whole thing pretentious. Honestly, these days so do I. People seem to be trying so hard to have a good time, and then take photos of it all so that they can update their social media profiles, that I wonder what the hell they are trying to achieve half the time myself. The whole "vibing" thing is alien to them. People dont vibe, they either enjoy each others company or they dont. That comes from shared interest, not shared sense of humor and small talk for hours.

You dont need to game these women the same way. All you need to do is step up. Its the simplest, fastest audition in the world. You make your intentions clear from the first minute, you be sincere in your conversation and you escalate hard and fast. You build tension through her resistance, not through flirting. You also need to plow through the bitch shield. Its immense sometimes, but unless she walks off, you are still in. You dont test the waters, you jump in with them and open yourself up to hard rejection.

These women are conservative too. You escalating does not always lead to the bang right away, but you need to go into every encounter with her expecting her to put out for the time you put in. You must almost be demanding of it without being confrontational. After they have sized you up enough they either buckle or they ignore you.

They are the best women in the world. Looks wise, nothing stands up to them when they are in their prime. Once you learn to understand them, they are without a doubt some of the most rational and pragmatic women in the world too. Honestly, you can keep your "fun, gregarious" whores who are driven by their vaginas and petty emotions. Women are women everywhere, but a woman who knows the score and is under no illusions or false pretense is a far better woman than the shit we live with.

[KorbenDallas]

Why men are superior to women. Gaston told GManifesto his opinion of him, which, almost amounted to telling GManifesto he's a fake or at least has a fake personality. Gaston didn't pull punches. GManifesto took it in stride essentially saying, "Thanks for your opinion. I probably wouldn't get along with you in real life, but I can handle your difference of style/opinion and appreciate your insight."
IF it were women they would be enemies for life because they can't handle reality based truths.

[thegmanifesto]

(12-23-2012 12:45 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

You dont need to game these women the same way. All you need to do is step up. Its the simplest, fastest audition in the world. You make your intentions clear from the first minute, you be sincere in your conversation and you escalate hard and fast. You build tension through her resistance, not through flirting. You also need to plow through the bitch shield. Its immense sometimes, but unless she walks off, you are still in. You dont test the waters, you jump in with them and open yourself up to hard rejection.

Great post Hooligan.

Can you flesh out the above a little more.

Quote:

"You make your intentions clear from the first minute, you be sincere in your conversation and you escalate hard and fast."

How does this go down for you?

Quote:

You also need to plow through the bitch shield.

How does this go down?

I honestly don't even really know what a "bitch shield" is.

[Gaston]

(12-23-2012 01:54 AM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

Why men are superior to women. Gaston told GManifesto his opinion of him, which, almost amounted to telling GManifesto he's a fake or at least has a fake personality. Gaston didn't pull punches. GManifesto took it in stride essentially saying, "Thanks for your opinion. I probably wouldn't get along with you in real life, but I can handle your difference of style/opinion and appreciate your insight."
IF it were women they would be enemies for life because they can't handle reality based truths.

Good point. Just to reiterate, I believe G's public persona is a conceptual performance marketed toward establishing a leading position in a small niche. And that he is doing pretty well despite the fact that I don't think Del Mar game works on soCal beach babeseither (and not only nice Russian girls in Russia.) Bottom line, I can not be personally against someone's performance. I'd also venture to say that behind his persona I believe G is ultimately a guy's guy, which is positive and all one really needs to know at the end of the day.

By the way, Hooligan Harry above has written probably the best short post on Russian women I've read. Take that to the bank folks.

[thegmanifesto]

(12-23-2012 04:12 PM)Gaston Wrote:  

I don't think Del Mar game works on soCal beach babeseither (and not only nice Russian girls in Russia.)

Back that statement up.

How many times have you been to The Del Mar Racetrack?

How many years have you lived at the beach in Southern California?

[BIGINJAPAN]

Yeah all the Russians I have taken down have been living in Canada for at a least a year. Same with any EE girls that I have banged in Canada. But abroad I have just as easy as a time picking up as I do back home. I don't really pay attention to what I am doing and just go with the flow. Gaming has always came natural to me, but since I have joined the forum I am trying to pay more attention to what I do and what is working or not.

[XXL]

CLEAR INTENTIONS / BLUNT HONESTY GAME

If you want to play that radical honesty game then you have to completely own this shit like a full on dictator/tyrant without even trying to make it smooth or fun or nice.

Random example of expressing your intentions:

Approach:
- whoa a tall cutie i've been looking for you whole night get over here girl! [you put your arm around her looking her deep in the eyes], who the hell are YOU?
- I'm [name]
- Really? I like your features.. I want to put baby in your tummy blablabla..

She's like WTF?

Then, if you can tell that she's just trying to test your character to find out if you're for real [you spot fake resistance by her happy and flirty eyes/facial expressions. But negative shift in whole body language and scary eyes means "no"] then you stay congruent to your intentions simply by standing by your actions..

- you're trying to pick me up
- yes I am

- you can't say that!
- I can, blablabla..

- what do you want?
- you. to leave with me

- no
- yes..

- who the hell you think you are?!
- silence! how old are you?

Important: This is highly polarizing style. It's hit or miss thing. Only a percent of girls get with the program. But.. the ones that do, OMG, they hook like fucking crazy. The chemistry is incredible. No guy can compete with you, they're all faggots next to you in that situation. Your girl even points at you telling others "he's mine he's the boss he's the only one with balls" and shit like that.

Also, what's interesting is that IMO it make sense to go that hard only with very attractive girls. Cause you're horny and the urge to dominate the bitch wakes up inside you and that's the energy you need to pull it off. I literally couldn't properly deliver that kind of game with so so girls. But again, blunt honesty game is pure screening style, it's all about harshly filtering out all girls on the fence very fast. If that's your goal then it's great.

This video touches this subject a little bit. Enjoy:

[Vicious]

Gaston, we get it. You have issues with G. Let it go before you start sounding like an obsessive bitch.

[Hooligan Harry]

(12-23-2012 03:51 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 12:45 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

You dont need to game these women the same way. All you need to do is step up. Its the simplest, fastest audition in the world. You make your intentions clear from the first minute, you be sincere in your conversation and you escalate hard and fast. You build tension through her resistance, not through flirting. You also need to plow through the bitch shield. Its immense sometimes, but unless she walks off, you are still in. You dont test the waters, you jump in with them and open yourself up to hard rejection.

Great post Hooligan.

Can you flesh out the above a little more.

You could write a book about it, but Ill summarize.

You go caveman. You dont try and chat her up, you basically go in for the kill from the word go. When you open, you do everything you would not do with most other women. You never pussy foot around.

I typically only approach women who make eye contact with me, so they have shown some interest. Only time Ill blindside them is if its on the street.

I open with an outright sexual comment that tells them I want to fuck them. No smile, dead serious expression to the point that they can see I am horny.

"You are gorgeous"
"You make those heels look sexy"
"I was watching you dance and I like it"

None of this "damn girl" faggot shit. You say it to them deadpan. Say it as a joke, and its offensive to them because you are saying it with a potential way out. That is creepy and weak. When you have said it deadpan, you meant what you said and there is no backing out now, you are vulnerable to her rejection. You have to take that risk.

Sounds stupid, because doing something like this back home will see you come across as a retard. Yet they expect you to step up like this, because men are not supposed to be interested in a woman they dont know for any other reason but sex. There is no pretense here and no need for it.

You then tell her to come have a drink. You dont ask, you tell. You make them say no. People who drink together are being social.

You start pushing for isolation immediately if she is with other people. If she resists it, you speak a bit to the rest of the group and see if she perks up a little. You then tell her again that she needs to come and have a drink with you, she can come back to her friends later. If she resists it again, then you eject by saying she can come find you. Normally though, if they are with men, its best advised you dont approach unless you can tell for certain that she is not with someone and she has been eye fucking the living shit out of you. Even then, its Russia. You dont need the drama.

If she is with one or two female friends, you dont need to isolate right away, you just buy the women off with drinks. You basically buy them all a drink and you then ignore her friends while you focus on her. You dont engage with them unless they talk to you, they are invisible. Again, unlike where we come from, there is no need to appease her friends. They will gradually start moving away as you ramp things up, and if they are away or their backs are to you, it normally means that you are in. They will normally leave it up to her to tell you to fuck off. Cock blocking has not been typical, its normally guys who cock block. They cock block if its clear that the chick you are talking to is not keen and its not token resistance she is putting up. She will give them a signal of some sort, and they will just all move off.

Two women on their own is tough unless you have a wingman, although even then they are not going to step in the way of her meeting a decent man. SNL is tough going when there are with one friend only, they dont like to leave each other. You almost always have to get digits.

When you talk to her, keep the small talk to a minimum and you drop sexual comments throughout. She says she likes to dance? You tell her that explains why she moves like that or you say it explains her great legs. She says she comes from such and such, ask if all the women there are hot like her and when can you meet her cousins. Humor is aggressive, complementary and always making your intentions clear. You are not entertaining her, you are getting to know her because you want to fuck her.

She likes music? Use this as an excuse to try venue change immediately. You ask her why she is not at that venue, and then you tell her the two of you are going now. She says she is into history? Tell her that you will take her to a museum after she makes you breakfast. She likes a certain type of drink? Ask her where is the best place in town to get it and then you say you are going now.

You escalate to touching quickly too. As in 10 minutes tops. If she knocks your hands off but sticks around, you keep doing it until she either leaves or eventually just "allows" it.

Its direct game always, which means you deal with heavy rejection sometimes. Its game and the process is the same, you just cut out all the shit. There are softer ways to do this, but I am not the 3-4 date kind of guy.

If she is interested, she will start asking you questions. This means you are either already through or almost through her bitch shield. They are not like western women who spend the entire time talking about themselves either, just come across as sincere and make sure your story is straight always. Once they start engaging with you like that, its normally a sign that you are in. Its at this point that you start to build comfort with them. You continue to escalate and you need to keep the sexual tension there, but once they start asking you questions or speaking more freely, thats when you can start building comfort as you escalate.

In the west its the other way. You build comfort first, then you start making your intentions clearer.

The more attracted they are to you, or the more money you seem to have, the sooner this starts. It can start after your first hello if she is gushing for you, it can start 10 minutes in as you deal with what feels like endless bombs she throws your way.

Quote:

You also need to plow through the bitch shield.

How does this go down?

I honestly don't even really know what a "bitch shield" is.
[/quote]

They put up this very hard, cold exterior as a defensive mechanism at first. This is normal, its their shit test. Russians are a direct people, so when all the men are direct the guy who can hold his frame the longest is clearly the one who has more genuine confidence.

That cold bitch will suck your toes and fuck you dry between being the sweetest thing in the world once she knows you.

[thegmanifesto]

Great post Hooligan.

This really helps as it is basically the complete opposite of what I do.

So let me deconstruct this again back to simple terms. It basically looks like this, right?

1. Open strong. Deadpan. Sexual.

2. Tell her to get a drink. Lead.

3. Isolate (or buy friends off with drinks if she is with girlfriends).

4. Weave sexual, clear intentions into conversation. No small talk.

5. Escalate. Direct.

6. She should engage you with questions. Good sign. You are home free.

Is that right?

Another question: Do you do this with Russian girls you meet outside of Russia as well?

[jimukr104]

(12-23-2012 05:37 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

Yeah all the Russians I have taken down have been living in Canada for at a least a year. Same with any EE girls that I have banged in Canada. But abroad I have just as easy as a time picking up as I do back home. I don't really pay attention to what I am doing and just go with the flow. Gaming has always came natural to me, but since I have joined the forum I am trying to pay more attention to what I do and what is working or not.

A lot of people do have natural game but to be honest you gotta be in the top 10% or better in looks to pull that off usually. Alot of great looking guys think they use some type of game but they do not. My model hollywood looking friend for example will actually not realize that girls attract to him even when he sounds retarded.
As for EE girls most act normal when in the west. But its hard to believe a fsu girl will behave that way. They still keep their mentality unless they immigrated very young. Looks do not also manipulate them the way western girls get manipulated. Remember they are not going to fuck a brad pitt looking guy and brag about it. i used bad example because brad is not their type even ,think Marlboro man.But emotions are the same.American chicks actually compensate for their own lack of femininity by hooking with a model and then they actually will brag about it to their female friends.

[Greek kamaki]

First of all Russian girls are considerably smarter than Ukrainian girls.With Russian girls the main role of the man is to provide the fuel(money) for the girl to operate.As long as you provide the fuel the girl takes case of everything else.A long as it happens you are the Man in her eyes.
They play a lot with manliness and male ego and give guys some boost in confidence and ambitions to achieve so they can get rewarded as well by collateral damage.

[thegmanifesto]

(12-26-2012 02:50 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

First of all Russian girls are considerably smarter than Ukrainian girls.With Russian girls the main role of the man is to provide the fuel(money) for the girl to operate.As long as you provide the fuel the girl takes case of everything else.A long as it happens you are the Man in her eyes.
They play a lot with manliness and male ego and give guys some boost in confidence and ambitions to achieve so they can get rewarded as well by collateral damage.

Green Kamaki, I appreciate what you are saying and I know you are well versed in that part of the world.

But the money thing is not my issue. I think it is more what Hooligan broke down about how the Game script is flipped.

[poutsara]

I'm not a Soviet expert. But I recently gained experience with a girl from Moscow, one from Kazakhstan (russian born though), and one who was born here but parents were from Moscow. All three are old-world in attitude and style and were between 22-28 when I met them. All three had read Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, and spoke three languages. I met all of them in California. One was on extended vacation, two lived here.

One I met at a club through a cold approach. One I met at a bar after talking first to her cousin (who I had just met). One was a friend of a friend who I approached cold, but knew we had things in common before I said anything. None of them put out much on the first night but made sure to look immaculate every time I saw them. All turned out to be very sensual. One is a former model who still lives with her parents.

When I have been successful with FSU girls, I think it's because they liked my style and presence and not witty crap I say. I was direct but gentle with them. No indirect BS talk, "negs", trite conversations, none of that stuff. I met them, I liked them, I went for it. Simple. I didn't play games about intentions. Of course, I've failed hard with FSU girls as well. So take my advice for what it's worth.

(12-22-2012 11:03 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Reverse question for the guys that get along well with FSU girls:

Do you guys do well with American girls?

Do you roll the beaches of Southern California or Las Vegas or Miami Beach and do well?

I'm born and raised in America but I rarely swoop "American" girls. It's not that my game is poor with them, its that I am not as attracted. I've lived on the beach in Southern California and that time in my life was probably, minute for minute, by far the most efficient swooping ever. (I had a beach-front condo with a balcony so that might have helped.) And then there is Vegas. I've swooped about once per trip (most are two nights) on average over the last few years. Only been to Miami once. I did swoop there, one girl in four nights. So my Vegas and Miami game is at least fair.

[Greek kamaki]

Also it is important to seem a complex person in Russian girls eyes to have several dimensions.They do not like simpletons one dimensional guys.A certain depth is needed.

[jimukr104]

"All three had read Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, and spoke three languages. I met all of them in California. One was on extended vacation, two lived here."

Curious why that reading list impresses you? In school I was forced to read Tolstoy(war and peace) ,Dostoevsky (crime and punishment), and take years of Spanish language. We were also forced to read boring Charles Dickens as well as Shakespeare(many) and American authors,which makes sense since it was America. Has public school changed so much? I heard younger guys take SAT's with calculators and can have laptops in class and open book finals. USA is going to hell ,lol. Harry Potter is in school now?

[The Fantasist]

I like all these theories and techniques people are laying down for closing Russian girls and if those techniques are working for people then that's great but my experiences with Russians is somewhat different. Looking back over every success and failure I have had with Russians ( I have not slept with that many to be honest so I am no expert ) I can see that I never used game or techniques to seduce them because it would not have helped ( except how I present myself - i.e dress ),everything was pretty much out of my hands and up to the girl from the get go.

Every Russian girl ( I must add I am only talking about Russians in Russia I have little knowledge of them once they leave for the West ) I have slept with has seemingly decided whether she would like to sleep with me from the minute we met and every girl I have failed to lay has seemingly decided from the moment we met that that it will never happen and no matter what I did to try to change that it has failed. Unlike in the West where many girls initially disliked me but eventually came around through my game or force of personality. The ones that have liked me from the get go have seemingly not done so because we have 'clicked' or through necessarily liking my personality it's a more mercurial process then that.

A recent and typical example of what I mean: I sat next to a Russian girl from Moscow on a flight from Minsk to Tbilisi this summer. I opened her in conversation as we taxied down the runway and spent the entire flight talking. Now the thing was that we had nothing in common,nothing,no connection over similarities at all,she was a club promoter,into the fashion scene,very urbane and mixed in certain arty circles. Not my scene. We exchanged numbers as we passed passport control and went our separate ways,now in the West that would have been the end of it just another random meeting. However my phone was blowing up all the time in Abkhazia asking when I was back in Tbilisi so we could meet,she was clearly into me. Why? We had no connection and it was not because of my looks trust me. The fact was that I ticked certain boxes for her and that was good enough,no it was better then good enough it made me as she told me on our night out a week later "perfect". Those criteria are far more important then connection and commonalities to Russian women. All the rest is superfluous to a relationship for them because they are not sold on the dream of finding 'a best friend' like the Western idea of a relationship women are fed. Their other needs and wants are placed higher up their hierarchy of needs. It's only in the West where women are pampered and have unlimited choice that superfluities like 'connection' matter.

Conversely I have met plenty of Russians with whom I have had many similarities and who have seemingly been attracted to me physically yet no matter what I have tried,and believe me I have tried, I have never managed to seduce them. I have simply not ticked her criteria. The key is to realising which girls are and are not going to let you in as quickly as possible and then move on because in my experience at least I cannot change a Russian girl's mind.

The question is of course,what are their criteria? Well Wolverine I think would say something like race,nationality,age and wealth. He is most probably right to a certain extent but I would like to think it's not quite that base as that rules out my personality completely and means that an uncouth beer swilling Brit who speaks no Russian on his first trip has as much chance as me with a girl in a club in Russia. I think they all have their own individual criteria but the result is the same,if you don't meet it then you will not close her,ever regardless of what formula you use for escalating hard or being direct etc.

That is just my take though.

[thegmanifesto]

(12-27-2012 04:08 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

A recent and typical example of what I mean: I sat next to a Russian girl from Moscow on a flight from Minsk to Tbilisi this summer. I opened her in conversation as we taxied down the runway and spent the entire flight talking. Now the thing was that we had nothing in common,nothing,no connection over similarities at all,she was a club promoter,into the fashion scene,very urbane and mixed in certain arty circles. Not my scene. We exchanged numbers as we passed passport control and went our separate ways,now in the West that would have been the end of it just another random meeting. However my phone was blowing up all the time in Abkhazia asking when I was back in Tbilisi so we could meet,she was clearly into me. Why? We had no connection and it was not because of my looks trust me. The fact was that I ticked certain boxes for her and that was good enough,no it was better then good enough it made me as she told me on our night out a week later "perfect". Those criteria are far more important then connection and commonalities to Russian women. All the rest is superfluous to a relationship for them because they are not sold on the dream of finding 'a best friend' like the Western idea of a relationship women are fed. Their other needs and wants are placed higher up their hierarchy of needs. It's only in the West where women are pampered and have unlimited choice that superfluities like 'connection' matter.

This sounds like she fell for a typical American "romance" movie thing.

That is why meeting girls on airplanes is so powerful.

Quote:

The question is of course,what are their criteria? Well Wolverine I think would say something like race,nationality,age and wealth.

I have noticed this "Wolverine" thing a few times on here.

What is that?

Is that some member that blew up on here when I was gone?

[Greek kamaki]

Most Russian women prefer slavic wealthy guys and slavic mafia guys.The behaviour of the latter sets the modus vivendi for Russian women.
This is a common mistake they make.They assume that the Westerner who makes money is as capable, ruthless and strong as his Russian equivalent.When they come to the west and find out this is not true they lose quickly interest.

[The Fantasist]

(12-27-2012 09:26 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Quote:

The question is of course,what are their criteria? Well Wolverine I think would say something like race,nationality,age and wealth.

I have noticed this "Wolverine" thing a few times on here.

What is that?

Is that some member that blew up on here when I was gone?

Wolverine is a member who has Russian roots but grew up in the West. He recently travelled across Russia,Ukraine etc. and drew some interesting conclusions. Met him in Kiev,decent guy.

[rudebwoy]

Russian girls are rising up my list very quickly!

[Virtus]

As a Russian living in the us all I had to do to get better access to Russian girls was show up.

here

http://rusangeles.com/photos/180/

[rationalize_this]

I've been dating a Russian from Moscow for the past 4 months. I've asked her extensively about her history/view of guys was.
WARNING: Some of these views may offend certain races/nationalities. But its the truth.

Background: She's very upper class, dad is president of a finance bank, stepmom is up in the finance scene also. (Drops 10k on purses like its nothing)

--> Under no circumstances would she ever be seen with/touch a Turkish guy. ("They are all ugly, and have sex with girls and that's it")
Further info on Turkish guys, lower class russian girls go to Turkey to bang dudes. But there is a stigma against Turkish guys in Russia. Most well-off (the higher quality hotter girls) don't want the reputation of being seen with a Turkish guy, let alone dating one.

--> Under no circumstances would she be with a black guy. Completely against the way she was "raised". Parents/friends wouldn't approve.

--> Russian's from Moscow view Ukranians as "dirty". The language sounds like "nails on chalkboard" to them. They would in most circumstances not date/be seen around Ukranians unless they spoke fluent Russian no accent.

--> I was her first American( so to speak) and even then it took 4 dates and she was extremely hesitant.

Most Russian girls (the very hot high class ones) are simply not interested in other nationalities besides their own. Elementary understanding/speaking skill of Russian is extremely helpful/perhaps required.

--> Money/Status/Game ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED.

Took me 4 dates, heavy intellectual capacity (art, literature, poetry), playing guitar, and cooking skills.

Truth.

[jimukr104]

Nothing new. Rich elite in any country avoid foreighners. Her view of Ukrainians might be true. However I assure you even rich Russians know average odessans look down on them lOl. Odessans are viewed with both comtempt and awe. Alot of elite Moscow families buy flats in Odessa t

[Arado]

Great thread. I've been living in Russia for more than a year and still can't connect. Have always assumed it was a racial issue, but it's also a personality one too. Seems like central Asians are more outgoing but their women are more conservative.