[chochemonger1]

(12-29-2012 12:14 AM)ao85 Wrote:  

Great thread. I've been living in Russia for more than a year and still can't connect. Have always assumed it was a racial issue, but it's also a personality one too. Seems like central Asians are more outgoing but their women are more conservative.

ao85 in what city in Russia are you living?

[thegmanifesto]

(12-29-2012 12:14 AM)ao85 Wrote:  

Great thread. I've been living in Russia for more than a year and still can't connect. Have always assumed it was a racial issue, but it's also a personality one too. Seems like central Asians are more outgoing but their women are more conservative.

Where are you from in America?

What race? (Although I don't really care. But everyone on here cares about race, so I thought I would keep it in the spirit of things.)

[Arado]

South Asian, Moscow but I've had poor results in the regions too and Ukraine, despite near fluent Russian. I used to live in Mexico and did fine there and did better in DC and much better in NYC. I've travelled alot around SE asia and while white guys around me did better (not shocking given the worshipping of light skin there), i still found it easy to connect to locals and at least get a smile out of them. Race does matter here in russia - everyone saying it doesn't is basing their experience off of living in the west or being white/light skinned so I'm highly skeptical. Try gaming when face control folks don't let you into any of the nice places despite dressing better then the average Russian dudes there - it gets to you after awhile. To some degree, aggressive Turkish dudes have killed the reputation of brown guys in the entire region.

That said, I feel that even if race wasn't a factor, my game style is very specialized for a more outgoing type, which is why I'm looking forward to reading bang Ukraine for more insight on how to adjust my style. Many Russian women simply don't get American humor.

I've posted about my Moscow experience in many threads. It's not a happy story but fellow forum members need to be aware. And I'm still confused by this whole Indian troll thread - it's a valid issue, much more so outside the Anglo countries.

[thegmanifesto]

(12-29-2012 07:21 AM)ao85 Wrote:  

Many Russian women simply don't get American humor.

Yeah.

Sometimes I wonder these days if American's get American humor.

[rudebwoy]

(12-28-2012 10:46 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

I've been dating a Russian from Moscow for the past 4 months. I've asked her extensively about her history/view of guys was.
WARNING: Some of these views may offend certain races/nationalities. But its the truth.

Background: She's very upper class, dad is president of a finance bank, stepmom is up in the finance scene also. (Drops 10k on purses like its nothing)

--> Under no circumstances would she ever be seen with/touch a Turkish guy. ("They are all ugly, and have sex with girls and that's it")
Further info on Turkish guys, lower class russian girls go to Turkey to bang dudes. But there is a stigma against Turkish guys in Russia. Most well-off (the higher quality hotter girls) don't want the reputation of being seen with a Turkish guy, let alone dating one.

--> Under no circumstances would she be with a black guy. Completely against the way she was "raised". Parents/friends wouldn't approve.

--> Russian's from Moscow view Ukranians as "dirty". The language sounds like "nails on chalkboard" to them. They would in most circumstances not date/be seen around Ukranians unless they spoke fluent Russian no accent.

--> I was her first American( so to speak) and even then it took 4 dates and she was extremely hesitant.

Most Russian girls (the very hot high class ones) are simply not interested in other nationalities besides their own. Elementary understanding/speaking skill of Russian is extremely helpful/perhaps required.

--> Money/Status/Game ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED.

Took me 4 dates, heavy intellectual capacity (art, literature, poetry), playing guitar, and cooking skills.

Truth.

No offense dude, I am sure what you are saying is true but she is going to paint herself like roses to you.

[jimukr104]

(12-29-2012 07:21 AM)ao85 Wrote:  

South Asian, Moscow but I've had poor results in the regions too and Ukraine, despite near fluent Russian. I used to live in Mexico and did fine there and did better in DC and much better in NYC. I've travelled alot around SE asia and while white guys around me did better (not shocking given the worshipping of light skin there), i still found it easy to connect to locals and at least get a smile out of them. Race does matter here in russia - everyone saying it doesn't is basing their experience off of living in the west or being white/light skinned so I'm highly skeptical. Try gaming when face control folks don't let you into any of the nice places despite dressing better then the average Russian dudes there - it gets to you after awhile. To some degree, aggressive Turkish dudes have killed the reputation of brown guys in the entire region.

That said, I feel that even if race wasn't a factor, my game style is very specialized for a more outgoing type, which is why I'm looking forward to reading bang Ukraine for more insight on how to adjust my style. Many Russian women simply don't get American humor.

I've posted about my Moscow experience in many threads. It's not a happy story but fellow forum members need to be aware. And I'm still confused by this whole Indian troll thread - it's a valid issue, much more so outside the Anglo countries.

How you became fluent?
One of the reasons race is so important ,and a lot of guys fail to realize is the girls are not hooking up to get a "badge" of honor. Except for the anglo groupies most girls are expecting to get something. if it is not padaracks ,money , or entertainment its LTR. A lot of the guys here who struggle play the "i will be in town working bullshit". They still struggle because the girls do not see foreigners as long term anymore. When I was an expat, the number who saw us as marriage material was much higher than now. Add the fact that our image has been ruined by some bad apples and sex tourists, you are going after a dwindling supply. I swear the Turks were getting girls back in 2001. larger supply to go around.
As for humor, certainly most prefer talking with their own locals. In NYC they prefer their own ,who speak the most Russian. They actually believe only other FSU guys can understand their soul. I believe humor is a big part of this soul for them. They have a totem pole even in the states who they will date.In NYC, Philly, and i assume other large enclaves:
1. Other FSU guys, this excludes Warsaw pact countries, they do not want poles ,or czechs for example.
2. other descendants from FSU countries. This group would include me.Having a FSU last name helps.
3. = sometimes with group 2 is Jewish guys. A lot go with isreali guys, who also have ancestry from FSU. Its funny even the christian FSU immigrants date jewish guy before other Americans. i think its due to the fact that the American Russian community is jewish or fake jewish and those girls end up mixing in with them. My x-GF a blond Russian from Kazakhstan was not Jewish but she of course wanted to fit in.
4. other whites. But in areas where they want to fit in, they might be more reluctant.

[Arado]

(12-29-2012 05:23 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

How you became fluent?
One of the reasons race is so important ,and a lot of guys fail to realize is the girls are not hooking up to get a "badge" of honor. Except for the anglo groupies most girls are expecting to get something. if it is not padaracks ,money , or entertainment its LTR. A lot of the guys here who struggle play the "i will be in town working bullshit". They still struggle because the girls do not see foreigners as long term anymore. When I was an expat, the number who saw us as marriage material was much higher than now. Add the fact that our image has been ruined by some bad apples and sex tourists, you are going after a dwindling supply. I swear the Turks were getting girls back in 2001. larger supply to go around.
As for humor, certainly most prefer talking with their own locals. In NYC they prefer their own ,who speak the most Russian. They actually believe only other FSU guys can understand their soul. I believe humor is a big part of this soul for them. They have a totem pole even in the states who they will date.In NYC, Philly, and i assume other large enclaves:
1. Other FSU guys, this excludes Warsaw pact countries, they do not want poles ,or czechs for example.
2. other descendants from FSU countries. This group would include me.Having a FSU last name helps.
3. = sometimes with group 2 is Jewish guys. A lot go with isreali guys, who also have ancestry from FSU. Its funny even the christian FSU immigrants date jewish guy before other Americans. i think its due to the fact that the American Russian community is jewish or fake jewish and those girls end up mixing in with them. My x-GF a blond Russian from Kazakhstan was not Jewish but she of course wanted to fit in.
4. other whites. But in areas where they want to fit in, they might be more reluctant.

It's obvious that foreigners are much less exotic now than in 2001, but alot of it has to do with the increasing ability of Russians to travel abroad, and the higher incomes from higher oil prices. I still meet a Russian on occasion who has never met an American before but I'm sure this was more common 10 years ago. But this is the case in brazil, Columbia, SE Asia, etc.....the world is alot smaller than in the 1990s.

This is not surprising, hence my confusion at some forum members going on about this "race doesn't matter, it's all your game", "Indian race troll just has bad game" bs. Obviously they've never been to Russia. Anyway, the key question is how a non white person overcomes these barriers. Obviously it's best to avoid these countries in the first place, but I'm here on a contract so that's not an option. The bad reputation of Turkish dudes is a huge problem. I could feel this when running great game at girls in clubs but I know they don't want to be seen by their friends as giving in to a brown dude.

I've hosted two large house parties, but so far there haven't been major results. Like I said in other threads, Latino and salsa clubs are great places to meet women who are more open minded and less racist. However, they are swarming with Turkish dudes who are thinking the same thing so that's an issue.

[temujin]

(12-30-2012 03:09 AM)ao85 Wrote:  

(12-29-2012 05:23 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

How you became fluent?
One of the reasons race is so important ,and a lot of guys fail to realize is the girls are not hooking up to get a "badge" of honor. Except for the anglo groupies most girls are expecting to get something. if it is not padaracks ,money , or entertainment its LTR. A lot of the guys here who struggle play the "i will be in town working bullshit". They still struggle because the girls do not see foreigners as long term anymore. When I was an expat, the number who saw us as marriage material was much higher than now. Add the fact that our image has been ruined by some bad apples and sex tourists, you are going after a dwindling supply. I swear the Turks were getting girls back in 2001. larger supply to go around.
As for humor, certainly most prefer talking with their own locals. In NYC they prefer their own ,who speak the most Russian. They actually believe only other FSU guys can understand their soul. I believe humor is a big part of this soul for them. They have a totem pole even in the states who they will date.In NYC, Philly, and i assume other large enclaves:
1. Other FSU guys, this excludes Warsaw pact countries, they do not want poles ,or czechs for example.
2. other descendants from FSU countries. This group would include me.Having a FSU last name helps.
3. = sometimes with group 2 is Jewish guys. A lot go with isreali guys, who also have ancestry from FSU. Its funny even the christian FSU immigrants date jewish guy before other Americans. i think its due to the fact that the American Russian community is jewish or fake jewish and those girls end up mixing in with them. My x-GF a blond Russian from Kazakhstan was not Jewish but she of course wanted to fit in.
4. other whites. But in areas where they want to fit in, they might be more reluctant.

It's obvious that foreigners are much less exotic now than in 2001, but alot of it has to do with the increasing ability of Russians to travel abroad, and the higher incomes from higher oil prices. I still meet a Russian on occasion who has never met an American before but I'm sure this was more common 10 years ago. But this is the case in brazil, Columbia, SE Asia, etc.....the world is alot smaller than in the 1990s.

This is not surprising, hence my confusion at some forum members going on about this "race doesn't matter, it's all your game", "Indian race troll just has bad game" bs. Obviously they've never been to Russia. Anyway, the key question is how a non white person overcomes these barriers. Obviously it's best to avoid these countries in the first place, but I'm here on a contract so that's not an option. The bad reputation of Turkish dudes is a huge problem. I could feel this when running great game at girls in clubs but I know they don't want to be seen by their friends as giving in to a brown dude.

I've hosted two large house parties, but so far there haven't been major results. Like I said in other threads, Latino and salsa clubs are great places to meet women who are more open minded and less racist. However, they are swarming with Turkish dudes who are thinking the same thing so that's an issue.

I think you should go niche.

There's a group of women in just about every country in EE (including Russia) who have a thing for Indian "spirituality", yoga, and culture.

Just channel the spirit of Deepak Chopra on viagra and give it a go.

Granted, there may be a drop-off in quality with this group of women -- but hey, when times get tough, you have to get creative.

For example, here's an article about an Indian guy who met an Estonian woman off the Web and married her:

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes....-guru-site

Quote:

Kansar had bumped into Ojamets quite accidentally on a social networking siteas she was interested in spirituality and Indian culture. "I spotted her as she was connected to a spiritual guru. I sent her a friend request and we started interacting on the site. We also started speaking over internet telephones and video chatting. Soon we decided to get married and started planning for it," Kansar said.

Here's the Estonian chick, who appears to be some type of singer (or at least was, back in the day):




And her Indian hubby:

[Wolverine]

(12-27-2012 09:26 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I have noticed this "Wolverine" thing a few times on here.

What is that?

Is that some member that blew up on here when I was gone?

If the wolverine "thing" bothers you i suggest you stop living your life through this forum.

Clearly if you feel threatened by someone whom you've never met or will meet you need to get a life.

Tool.

[thegmanifesto]

(12-30-2012 09:50 AM)Wolverine Wrote:  

(12-27-2012 09:26 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I have noticed this "Wolverine" thing a few times on here.

What is that?

Is that some member that blew up on here when I was gone?

If the wolverine "thing" bothers you i suggest you stop living your life through this forum.

Clearly if you feel threatened by someone whom you've never met or will meet you need to get a life.

Tool.

Settle down.

I had seen it before on and had no idea if it was a member, a joke I didn't get, an animal, or some reference from somewhere else.

Too bad you misunderstood.

[Roosh]

Wolverive: 3 day ban. If you don't like a member, put him on ignore.

[Arado]

(12-30-2012 04:05 AM)temujin Wrote:  

I think you should go niche.

There's a group of women in just about every country in EE (including Russia) who have a thing for Indian "spirituality", yoga, and culture.

Just channel the spirit of Deepak Chopra on viagra and give it a go.

Granted, there may be a drop-off in quality with this group of women -- but hey, when times get tough, you have to get creative.

For example, here's an article about an Indian guy who met an Estonian woman off the Web and married her:

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes....-guru-site

Quote:

Kansar had bumped into Ojamets quite accidentally on a social networking siteas she was interested in spirituality and Indian culture. "I spotted her as she was connected to a spiritual guru. I sent her a friend request and we started interacting on the site. We also started speaking over internet telephones and video chatting. Soon we decided to get married and started planning for it," Kansar said.

Here's the Estonian chick, who appears to be some type of singer (or at least was, back in the day):




And her Indian hubby:

This is a good suggestion, we need more constructive information whenever race issues come up. A bit hard to find them in Moscow though. The whole hare Krishna movement is too cultish for me. I'll have to do some digging. Also, I'm not very into eastern and Indian culture so I don't know how congruent I will be, but it's worth a try. I guess I can start with online game.

[Dulceácido]

G,

I think you are spot-fucking-on, Man. I have travelled to many, many countries and have never seen anything like I did in EE. Hot-ass chicks with zero personality. Fucking impossible to connect with. I pulled one chick in Klaipeda, Lithuania. She was a solid 7.5, but hanging out with her was so cumbersome that it almost wasn't worth the effort, even though I was banging her out. Pulled another girl there--she was AWESOME! Turns out, she was German, so I don't think she counts. Pulled a chick in Vilnius, she was okay, but I'm pretty sure she was a pro and just messing around with me off the clock... Not 100% sure, but fairly certain... In Estonia I couldn't have gotten laid in a women's prison with a handful of pardons, seems like. Hot chicks, but again just no chemistry at all. I'm sure the language barrier had a lot to do with it, but even the chicks I met that spoke English almost bored me to suicide.

I'm also in complete agreement in regards to the locale. I'm no fan of cold weather. The food is kind of shitty. If it has a lung, it smokes. Blech... I'd take a Latina over those chicks any day of the week. For me, there really is no comparison.

[Giovonny]

(12-31-2012 09:14 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

In Estonia I couldn't have gotten laid in a women's prison with a handful of pardons

That's a good one!

What if you were in a whorehouse with a fist full of 20's???

Here's another one I like:

She had a face that could scare a dog off the back of a meat truck!

[Dulceácido]

(12-31-2012 12:00 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(12-31-2012 09:14 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

In Estonia I couldn't have gotten laid in a women's prison with a handful of pardons

That's a good one!

What if you were in a whorehouse with a fist full of 20's???

Here's another one I like:

She had a face that could scare a dog off the back of a meat truck!

Bwahahaha!!!

She looked like she'd been beaten about the face with a bag full of hot nickels

[jtbabycarrots]

(12-23-2012 12:45 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

You dont need to game these women the same way. All you need to do is step up. Its the simplest, fastest audition in the world. You make your intentions clear from the first minute, you be sincere in your conversation and you escalate hard and fast. You build tension through her resistance, not through flirting. You also need to plow through the bitch shield. Its immense sometimes, but unless she walks off, you are still in. You dont test the waters, you jump in with them and open yourself up to hard rejection.

These women are conservative too. You escalating does not always lead to the bang right away, but you need to go into every encounter with her expecting her to put out for the time you put in. You must almost be demanding of it without being confrontational. After they have sized you up enough they either buckle or they ignore you.

They are the best women in the world. Looks wise, nothing stands up to them when they are in their prime. Once you learn to understand them, they are without a doubt some of the most rational and pragmatic women in the world too. Honestly, you can keep your "fun, gregarious" whores who are driven by their vaginas and petty emotions. Women are women everywhere, but a woman who knows the score and is under no illusions or false pretense is a far better woman than the shit we live with.

From my experience in the EE; this post is dead on. All these girls want is a guy who has his sh*t together and is somewhat caring of their welfare. The reason they sh*t test is just to see if you're for real. All you do is keep your frame.

I would just add some additional strategy to his great post;

In terms of walking up to them all you do is - with a strong frame and body language - say, "are you having a nice evening/nice time tonight" - slowly, focusing on dictation. It shows 1) that you are the director of your own reality (frame), and 2) that you are considerate of them. At that point she'll either respond in the positive or the negative. It's the easiest game in the world because you don't waist any time talking to an attention seeking whore who has no actual interest in experiencing true masculine energy due to her lack of self esteem, or fiancee. So basically you're weeding out the weak immediately. It's also incredibly time efficient for the player on a mission. (If you press the girls that answered in the negative hard enough to find out why it didn't work you'll realize you just wasted your time, because you always end up regretting finding out the truth.)

Also, I never went for SNL because they like to be treated like a lady first. Translation; invite them out the next night for dinner and some drinks (we're not talking a lot of money in an EE country).

On the first date with my last EE LTR we went to an arcade type place before dinner. But before we went to dinner we went back to my apartment because I "forgot" my language phrase book. We never made it to dinner.

So, it's not about the money with these girls. It's about frame control. Yes, Russian girls like to bitch. But that's why you keep your pimp hand strong.

I can't wait to get back state side to try this type of game out...

[thegmanifesto]

Update.

I have been using a little of Harry Hooligans technique on these girls, with my own twist.

It's been working.

I just grab these girls real hard and kiss them (once I have some comfort and trust).

Had the flyest ballerina girl from St. Petersberg loving me last night, and had her 4 friends on tilt.

I think I could have swooped fully for sure if she didn't leave for NYC super early this morning.

I am starting to "get" these EE girls I think.

Sh*t. I would almost go there.

But f*ck that.

I don't need to go to some freezing sh*t hole with polar bear attacks, when I can walk down the street.

(watch for the real nice "double Jab")

[Gaston]

(03-21-2013 10:56 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I just grab these girls real hard and kiss them (once I have some comfort and trust).

Had the flyest ballerina girl from St. Petersberg loving me last night, and had her 4 friends on tilt.

I think I could have swooped fully for sure if she didn't leave for NYC super early this morning.

What girls? You only mention one ballerina. Can you bust out a mini-sheet? What, where, how... break it down.

[Gaston]

dupe

[thegmanifesto]

(03-21-2013 12:10 PM)Gaston Wrote:  

(03-21-2013 10:56 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I just grab these girls real hard and kiss them (once I have some comfort and trust).

Had the flyest ballerina girl from St. Petersberg loving me last night, and had her 4 friends on tilt.

I think I could have swooped fully for sure if she didn't leave for NYC super early this morning.

What girls? You only mention one ballerina. Can you bust out a mini-sheet? What, where, how... break it down.

Sure.

Quote:

What,

EE Girls.

Quote:

where,

USA.

Quote:

how...

Read above.

Quote:

break it down.

Broken.

[Viata]

Slavic girls and polish girls especially are not affectionate. This is a big turnoff for me also. They're cold and even in add they're not doing much. Total opposites of latin girls

[Akula]

(12-21-2012 05:53 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

First of all slavic women are humble and aware of their insignificancy which does not happen a lot among westerners.In the West everyone tries to be competitive as much as possible trying to compensate for other lacks.Not so in the East.So the westerner attitude to be noisy,lively and constantly on foreground can strike as annoying and superficial to slavic women.
In places like Russia,Ukraine all game is run by women so there is no need to be cocky and funny etc.The girl makes the jokes the guy is on the receiving end.Also silence is important because it allows the slavic soul to deepen in itself.Anyway one does not have to talk all the time since this can be boring for the girl.As good behaviour towards man Russian girls learn to talk less.

This is a contrast to polish girls attitude who although slavic tend to talk a lot often more than enough.This stems from inherent belief that they are smoot talkers and can make the guy sympathetic towards them in this way.Balkan attitude is confined to essentials.Here we talk about 50% of what we mean and we let the other part imagine the rest.

This. I also don't neg very much with them but if it gets into the long term banging or even LTR stage they expect you to fight a good bit and if you don't they think you're a chump in my experience.

I see a lot of Russian guys out with Russian girls and many of them barely talk the ENTIRE time they are out together which I find kind of funny. Lot of times that's the Sponsored crowd but holds true for a lot of them in general. Kind of caveman-ish I guess??

[Akula]

(12-21-2012 01:21 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  

Sidenote: all of these types I've fucked have been here in the States, although they were all fresh from Russia/Poland having only been here a few months/couple years. Could be the type of game I used worked because they want a green card? Lol

Yeah that's what I first thought when I read your post - these Russians sounds like the ones abroad who have been somewhat corrupted by western values & feminism and also know how much prettier they are than the average women there. I think even a few months/a year might be all it takes really, unfortunately. A young Polish girl I was with, my only flag, was telling me she spent a month in NYC and gained 10 pounds and an attitude!).

It's hit or miss here in Moscow and there are some serious gold digger types looking for sponsors, but I find a lot of really nice girls too but many are from other cities in Russia or the suburbs.

[uni]

How girls are having fun in Eastern Europe:

[MichaelCorleone]

(12-23-2012 12:45 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Russian and EE women are not one and the same. Just like the women of Latin America tend to differ, its going to be the same in EE and Russia. Its also important to remember that there are different ethnicities too.

So what I describe is hardcore Russian, and then tends to become more moderate the further west you move. I have always said on this forum that western concepts of game fall flat there, and for some reason guys seem to think that the shit they do at home is going to work when they are abroad or dealing with women from these places. You need to adjust.

They dont like small talk and they find it pointless. They dont understand the never ending joking and what they see as fake smiling. They dont understand why you are pretending to be interested in them when you are after one thing, yet you dont make your intentions clear. They dont do innuendo and subtly. Cocky behavior is seen as rude. A lot of what westerners do they would consider juvenile and idiotic. They have a dislike for braggarts and men who attention whore. They dont understand why we dont like silence in social settings.

Basically, they find the whole thing pretentious. Honestly, these days so do I. People seem to be trying so hard to have a good time, and then take photos of it all so that they can update their social media profiles, that I wonder what the hell they are trying to achieve half the time myself. The whole "vibing" thing is alien to them. People dont vibe, they either enjoy each others company or they dont. That comes from shared interest, not shared sense of humor and small talk for hours.

You dont need to game these women the same way. All you need to do is step up. Its the simplest, fastest audition in the world. You make your intentions clear from the first minute, you be sincere in your conversation and you escalate hard and fast. You build tension through her resistance, not through flirting. You also need to plow through the bitch shield. Its immense sometimes, but unless she walks off, you are still in. You dont test the waters, you jump in with them and open yourself up to hard rejection.

These women are conservative too. You escalating does not always lead to the bang right away, but you need to go into every encounter with her expecting her to put out for the time you put in. You must almost be demanding of it without being confrontational. After they have sized you up enough they either buckle or they ignore you.

They are the best women in the world. Looks wise, nothing stands up to them when they are in their prime. Once you learn to understand them, they are without a doubt some of the most rational and pragmatic women in the world too. Honestly, you can keep your "fun, gregarious" whores who are driven by their vaginas and petty emotions. Women are women everywhere, but a woman who knows the score and is under no illusions or false pretense is a far better woman than the shit we live with.

Spot on