[cotizado]

(08-04-2016 03:18 PM)Stickman Wrote:  

Yes and no. Agreed that if an Asian guy become the best version of himself that he can land girls of any race with relative ease, but all things being equal he still has to approuch 10x and swipe 30x because of social conditioning

10x, 30x - where are these numbers coming from?

In my opinion, this is a better starting point for Asian men: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jocelyn-ei...27240.html

Quote:

Whether in forums or blogs, the negative online discourse about Chinese men is consistent with Psychologist Zhang Jiehai’s findings from surveys on “Chinese Men in the Eyes of Western Women”
...
Negative impressions ultimately dominated as the women criticized Chinese men as “not so gentlemanly,” “poor physique, not enough exercise,” “no personality, lacking unique opinions,” even condemning them on perceived personal hygiene problems.

The study was about Chinese men in particular rather than Asian men in general, but I think a lot of the same criticisms also apply to non-Chinese Asians. I've found that one can get a lot of mileage out of addressing these criticisms. Does one still need to approach 10x and swipe 30x after becoming physically fit, a good conversationalist, etc.? I'm not sure what the point is once you have a regular sex life. You might find yourself thinking, "I'm spending too much time meeting girls and having sex - I need to get some work done."

[Zerdame]

As a relatively young Asian dude(early 20s) I remember my first ever approach. I had no game, all I knew was I saw this girl in a bar and I really wanted her. I went up to her while she was with her friend and was completely tongue tied, finally uttering "can I join you?" I must have been 17 or 18 and she just looked me in the eye and said "we're leaving, sorry" and left promptly 5mins later. It was around 7pm, the bar was empty apart from myself(I was rolling solo) and the two girls and I could feel the staff all judging me. I felt terrible, like a complete loser. I left the bar without barely touching my beer.

That was a few years ago. My game has improved since then, I'm in a better frame and I feel generally more confident about myself. It has been a painful but hilarious learning curve for me, I still laugh at the stuff I said sometimes when I think about it. I feel like alot of Asian men have the same problem. We love women but game was never something that we were exposed to. Our mothers taught us that getting the right education/jobs would lead us to the 'right' girl and things would work out. You wouldnt expect Asian dads to teach us anything about game too, we would be lucky if our dads even taught us anything about talking to girls at all.

I personally felt my game journey only truly started when I had the opportunity to leave home for a year to live by myself in Japan. I had shit logistics that would turn any potential girls the other direction running for the densha(train) home and I had probably less spending money a month than the average Japanese college kid. But I felt like those scenarios only made me more self reliant and resourceful. I learnt to budget for my night outs and knowing that bringing girls to love hotels(around 50bucks for 3 hours) was my best bet for getting laid, I learnt to spend minimally on girls and yet still being able to build comfort. I learn to memorize and navigate unfamiliar roads without using Google Maps so I could do rambling game while leading them towards the love hotels to maintain the plausible deniability. Or I would also target girls who have their own apartments(rich girls from other cities but studying/working in Tokyo who can afford their own place)

All of these would not have been possible in my home country. Its also laziness that I suspect is at work. Afterall, if I can't get anything here, I would just head home and try again another day. In Japan, every weekend or date counted because I had limited finances and I had more responsibilities living alone.

My perspectives could be different because I spent time abroad and was also forced to "grow up" much earlier. Even shit like almost getting admitted to a Japanese hospital for high fever but insisted I could get well with medications because I ain't going to pay for that expensive shit without insurance and being threatened with eviction by my landlord are all situations that felt like hell back then but now serve as valuable lessons that build resisilience and toughness.

Sorry if this got alittle out of point but I feel like many Asians(especially in Asia) would probably only experience this later on in life because of our cultures to keep family close so most stay with their parents and sheltered lives until they graduate, get a job or even get married. It could be too late by then to do much because of other responsibilities that would take priority then. Just my two cents opinion about why guys in Asia may act the way they do, hell I would probably be the same if not for that high fever haha.

[Jack Of All Trades]

asian families force their sons to stay in their comfort zone and shield them from the outside world and coddle them. Then wonder why they can't find a girl to marry in later life after being spoon fed everything from childhood. By leaving home and doing something on your own is easily the best experience you can have, and the earlier you do it the better.

[whiteknightrises]

I agree with this sentiment

Even tho I am an America hater, one of the good things is that typically kids will leave home once college starts (not always but probably more than other places)

Korea - I don't know about China, Japan, etc but I'd assume it's similar

People rely on their parents too much - live at home, mooch off their parents, don't work until they graduate college and get their first "real" job. Never learn the value of money

It's a problem

To anyone reading that is still young like college or younger - move out ASAP, start working ASAP, cut off the Bank of Mom/Dad ATM ASAP

Yea it will suck and you'll have to learn, but it was gonna be like that eventually anyway.

Not really related to the banging bitches part, but I think being an independent adult probably helps with that too (more of a "go getter" mentality)

[whenthesunhits]

Great stuff here (minus the trolls). Agree 100%. I started living on my own in HS and this was such a big part of me becoming strong. I'm new to learning game in a formal way but have done pretty well just from increasing my value and being an interesting person who has had all kinds of experiences.

Honestly it makes me so mad when I see all these beta-ass Asian dudes that were ruined by their parents who only cared about going to a good school and had their self-esteem crushed through constant criticism. Most Asian-Americans now are still 2nd generation but I wonder what it will be like for those in the 3rd generation. At the very least, I hope their dads know enough to teach them about the importance of being masculine, having real interests, social skills, etc. There needs to be more alpha Asian dudes going into fields with high visibility like politics, film, music, sports, etc. I can tell that societal perceptions are gradually changing but there is so much longer to go.

[Jack Of All Trades]

They can either break out or get crushed by family expectations and then everything just shits the bed.

[Zerdame]

Unfortunately most get crushed. Its really a conflict of interests for me. On one hand, it would be nice to see more alpha asians taking control of their lives and getting the best out of what there is but on the other hand, I have a friend who would always remind me to "look at the competition and never complain that the men are beta because if they were all Rooshs, we might as well have a Player Olympics and only the best get the pussy"

[Jack Of All Trades]

from what I've noticed, it's really in the extremes. Asian guys who do well, are often fit, good looking, and make good money that have great social skills destroy the competition for asian guys. They literally take everything when it comes to women, the inequality is massive for asian people.

[JWLZG]

(04-07-2017 08:48 AM)Zerdame Wrote:  

Our mothers taught us that getting the right education/jobs would lead us to the 'right' girl and things would work out. You wouldnt expect Asian dads to teach us anything about game too, we would be lucky if our dads even taught us anything about talking to girls at all.

Hate to concur with this but +1.

I was on the phone with my mum the other day and she got around to nagging me to drop fencing and drumming and stop taking the gym seriously given that I was about to start a new job.

I can still hear a note of disappointment in her voice whenever I'm on the phone with her and I happen to be at a club or bar.

She wasn't supportive of me DJing in my first year of uni nor keen for me to take bartending seriously later on. She didn't see how a menial job such as the latter could still be high SMV over in the West, neither would that have mattered even if she did.

Dad was a bit cooler about DJing and lukewarm about me bringing girls home. Still reacted nothing like what those of my white peers would've done (lol) — *high fives* "You go, son".

You're definitely on the ball with moving out. I only did that at 24, prompted by doing a semester abroad. Even then, had I not just the impetus that I couldn't stand my stepmum, it would've taken me longer. I know I'm going to send my kids to boarding school and will kick them out of the house by 21 if I have them.

[Jack Of All Trades]

Anyone have any info for africa for asian dudes?

[Brosemite]

(04-08-2017 09:31 PM)Zerdame Wrote:  

Unfortunately most get crushed. Its really a conflict of interests for me. On one hand, it would be nice to see more alpha asians taking control of their lives and getting the best out of what there is but on the other hand, I have a friend who would always remind me to "look at the competition and never complain that the men are beta because if they were all Rooshs, we might as well have a Player Olympics and only the best get the pussy"

I wouldn't mind that "extra" competition. Then again, being able to capitalize off of "no competition" or being able to "distinguish yourself" within the competition are great skills to possess.

As they say in my new job, diamonds can only be formed under pressure.

[Spitative]

23M. 5'11, 170 lbs. Vietnamese, born in Saigon, raised in California since I was 3. Consider myself 8/10 face and body. Lift, good hygiene, good style, good grooming, gaming since I was 18.

I crush it on Tinder in the states and absolute fucking destroy when I tinder out in Asia, especially Vietnam where I can incorporate my knowledge of Vietnamese.


I hear a lot of Asian guys complaining about one thing or another. Blaming it on their race and other factors such as height. I've been lucky enough to have been blessed with good height genetics so I can not comment on height.

In my opinion, most Asian guys blame too many things out of their control. Sure, I have it more difficult than a white guy when I'm trying to pull white girls, but I am at a huge advantage pulling an Asian American girl or an Asian girl in Asia.

Play to your strengths, maximize them and minimize your weakness. Lift, dress well, groom well, practice your social skills.

I've been at one end and the other. I've been that 18 year old, 5'10, 135 pound guy who had no social skills.

The amount of attention, respect, and women you get dramatically change when you discipline yourself and learn to improve yourself daily and consistently.

There's nobody to blame but yourself honestly.

[whenthesunhits]

(04-09-2017 11:45 PM)Spitative Wrote:  

23M. 5'11, 170 lbs. Vietnamese, born in Saigon, raised in California since I was 3. Consider myself 8/10 face and body. Lift, good hygiene, good style, good grooming, gaming since I was 18.

I crush it on Tinder in the states and absolute fucking destroy when I tinder out in Asia, especially Vietnam where I can incorporate my knowledge of Vietnamese.


I hear a lot of Asian guys complaining about one thing or another. Blaming it on their race and other factors such as height. I've been lucky enough to have been blessed with good height genetics so I can not comment on height.

In my opinion, most Asian guys blame too many things out of their control. Sure, I have it more difficult than a white guy when I'm trying to pull white girls, but I am at a huge advantage pulling an Asian American girl or an Asian girl in Asia.

Play to your strengths, maximize them and minimize your weakness. Lift, dress well, groom well, practice your social skills.

I've been at one end and the other. I've been that 18 year old, 5'10, 135 pound guy who had no social skills.

The amount of attention, respect, and women you get dramatically change when you discipline yourself and learn to improve yourself daily and consistently.

There's nobody to blame but yourself honestly.

Good shit. I posted something similar in the other Asian guy thread. I've done well with white girls on Tinder in NYC (early 30s 6'0 140lbs Korean), and while I don't want to downplay the areas in which I've been fortunate, definitely agree that there is too much whining and negative mindset among our Asian brothers. Recently started lifting again, because RVF got me thinking about how much pussy I'm leaving on the table by not being more muscular. It's only been a couple weeks and I can already feel more IOIs and a stronger frame. Feel pumped up to hit the gym right now after reading your post, going to crush it!

[whenthesunhits]

(04-09-2017 11:01 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  

(04-08-2017 09:31 PM)Zerdame Wrote:  

Unfortunately most get crushed. Its really a conflict of interests for me. On one hand, it would be nice to see more alpha asians taking control of their lives and getting the best out of what there is but on the other hand, I have a friend who would always remind me to "look at the competition and never complain that the men are beta because if they were all Rooshs, we might as well have a Player Olympics and only the best get the pussy"

I wouldn't mind that "extra" competition. Then again, being able to capitalize off of "no competition" or being able to "distinguish yourself" within the competition are great skills to possess.

As they say in my new job, diamonds can only be formed under pressure.

Amen. Shouldn't be afraid of more competition. Also I actually think that having more Asian brothers getting with the program will help us overall, because there is a snowball effect of more girls finding themselves attracted to Asian guys, girls seeing other girls with Asian guys, etc. Think of it as social proof at the macro level. Accelerate towards a tipping point in societal perceptions, especially when it comes to non-Asian girls. Maybe it's because I game in NYC, but I have never felt like the exotic factor has helped me. Aside from a couple of Asian fetishists, the perspective of my girls has always been "there's this man with charisma and swagger, who happens to be Asian."

[Zerdame]

(04-10-2017 10:36 AM)whenthesunhits Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 11:01 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  

(04-08-2017 09:31 PM)Zerdame Wrote:  

Unfortunately most get crushed. Its really a conflict of interests for me. On one hand, it would be nice to see more alpha asians taking control of their lives and getting the best out of what there is but on the other hand, I have a friend who would always remind me to "look at the competition and never complain that the men are beta because if they were all Rooshs, we might as well have a Player Olympics and only the best get the pussy"

I wouldn't mind that "extra" competition. Then again, being able to capitalize off of "no competition" or being able to "distinguish yourself" within the competition are great skills to possess.

As they say in my new job, diamonds can only be formed under pressure.

Amen. Shouldn't be afraid of more competition. Also I actually think that having more Asian brothers getting with the program will help us overall, because there is a snowball effect of more girls finding themselves attracted to Asian guys, girls seeing other girls with Asian guys, etc. Think of it as social proof at the macro level. Accelerate towards a tipping point in societal perceptions, especially when it comes to non-Asian girls. Maybe it's because I game in NYC, but I have never felt like the exotic factor has helped me. Aside from a couple of Asian fetishists, the perspective of my girls has always been "there's this man with charisma and swagger, who happens to be Asian."

Agreed. From a white girl's pov, there now exist the need to add Asian to a positive male trait as though it's a rarity for it be possessed by an Asian man(it is sadly true sometimes) The mindset is changing in cities with big Asian populations. I've had white girls give shit test like "I heard Asian men have small dicks" and I always counter with "Chloe was screaming away so I'm pretty sure I have it nailed down" the fact that Chloe is such a stereotypical white name always cracks them up. I have a theory that when you say something like that, it triggers immediately a white girl being fucked by an alpha Asian guy and that gets them wet for some reason.

[Joeno]

(04-06-2017 09:57 PM)cotizado Wrote:  

The study was about Chinese men in particular rather than Asian men in general, but I think a lot of the same criticisms also apply to non-Chinese Asians. I've found that one can get a lot of mileage out of addressing these criticisms. Does one still need to approach 10x and swipe 30x after becoming physically fit, a good conversationalist, etc.? I'm not sure what the point is once you have a regular sex life. You might find yourself thinking, "I'm spending too much time meeting girls and having sex - I need to get some work done."

I think the biggest thing which many have mentioned already, is the amount of approaching done.

Everything else without trying to sound defensive, are just stereotypes.
"not so gentlemanly,”
- I thought Chinese/Asian culture put an emphasis on being gentlemanly which comes off as beta.

“poor physique, not enough exercise,”
- Doesn't the west have rampant obesity rates?

“no personality, lacking unique opinions,”
- Talking about what happened in the club last night, and about reality TV shows is personality? I think Americans have the among the least unique / interesting personality out of all nationalities I've met.

Asian dudes definitely need to get out of our comfort zone and approach more. But I'd ignore all the other "complaints". I don't understand why some of the guys here are defending racist stereotypes.

[whenthesunhits]

(04-12-2017 02:26 AM)Joeno Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 09:57 PM)cotizado Wrote:  

The study was about Chinese men in particular rather than Asian men in general, but I think a lot of the same criticisms also apply to non-Chinese Asians. I've found that one can get a lot of mileage out of addressing these criticisms. Does one still need to approach 10x and swipe 30x after becoming physically fit, a good conversationalist, etc.? I'm not sure what the point is once you have a regular sex life. You might find yourself thinking, "I'm spending too much time meeting girls and having sex - I need to get some work done."

I think the biggest thing which many have mentioned already, is the amount of approaching done.

Everything else without trying to sound defensive, are just stereotypes.
"not so gentlemanly,”
- I thought Chinese/Asian culture put an emphasis on being gentlemanly which comes off as beta.

“poor physique, not enough exercise,”
- Doesn't the west have rampant obesity rates?

“no personality, lacking unique opinions,”
- Talking about what happened in the club last night, and about reality TV shows is personality? I think Americans have the among the least unique / interesting personality out of all nationalities I've met.

Asian dudes definitely need to get out of our comfort zone and approach more. But I'd ignore all the other "complaints". I don't understand why some of the guys here are defending racist stereotypes.

I love the positive mindset and think that Cortizado sounded too self-pitying. But to be intellectually honest, I think there is some validity to the criticisms/stereotypes. It's definitely a balancing act, because we don't want to let the stereotypes get us down, but part of game is understanding the actual truth, and working with that. I think the key is to understand that stereotypes may apply to Asians in aggregate, but do not necessarily apply to oneself - you have to psychologically separate yourself.

"Not so gentlemanly" - Think this may be a poor translation, but assume this refers to a lack of social graces and manners.

"Poor physique" - Skinny and not enough muscle, girls often prefer to a "dad bod" type to someone really scrawny. I am skinny myself and get laid pretty consistently, so it's not something insurmountable.

"No personality" - I get what you are saying about Americans being vapid. Many of them are. I moved to NYC to escape that, although you can never fully get away from it. But let's be real, most Asians are really bland. They don't know how to be engaging. Spend their whole lives studying, listen to their parents, never do anything interesting, and like the same stuff that everyone else likes. This is something that results from the academic obsession and conformist underpinnings of Asian society. To be honest, this is why I rarely go after Asian girls.

The good thing is that game and self-improvement addresses all 3 of these areas! I know why you said what you said - because many of our brothers get stuck in a negative mindset and don't approach enough. I agree wholeheartedly. There needs to be work done on both ends.

[cotizado]

(04-12-2017 02:26 AM)Joeno Wrote:  

I don't understand why some of the guys here are defending racist stereotypes.

Are you saying that I'm defending racist stereotypes? (Note that I am asking a question rather than making a statement. Maybe your answer is "no.") Let's retrace a bit. Stickman was saying that Asian guys need to approach 10 times and swipe 30 times as much as white guys. While I think we Asian guys do tend to be somewhat at a disadvantage, I think this is an exaggeration. So, I asked, "10x, 30x - where are these numbers coming from?"

I think it is important to understand where the disadvantage comes from. Psychologist Zhang Jiehai did a study and women wrote things like, "not so gentlemanly," "poor physique, not enough exercise," "no personality, lacking unique opinions." I did not come up with these words myself. These are not Zhang Jiehai's words, either. Women responding to the survey wrote these things. You can dismiss these as racist stereotypes or you can regard these things as valuable feedback from a survey. Am I defending racist stereotypes? I don't think it is wonderful that women wrote these things. I'm just telling you what they wrote. I then wrote:

Quote:

I've found that one can get a lot of mileage out of addressing these criticisms. Does one still need to approach 10x and swipe 30x after becoming physically fit, a good conversationalist, etc.? I'm not sure what the point is once you have a regular sex life. You might find yourself thinking, "I'm spending too much time meeting girls and having sex - I need to get some work done."

The average Asian man should approach more. But 10 times as much as white guys? If you're physically fit, a good converationalist, etc., I would say probably not. In my opinion, every Asian man should make an effort to become physically fit, a good conversationalist, etc. Let's hope for different kinds of responses the next time someone does a survey like this.

(04-12-2017 02:26 AM)Joeno Wrote:  

But I'd ignore all the other "complaints".

I would say that the average Asian man should work on becoming physically fit, a good conversationalist, etc. You don't agree? I would say that these would be intrinsically good things to work on even if the survey did not highlight these issues for us.

[cotizado]

(04-12-2017 09:58 AM)whenthesunhits Wrote:  

I love the positive mindset and think that Cortizado sounded too self-pitying.

I wrote:

Quote:

I've found that one can get a lot of mileage out of addressing these criticisms. Does one still need to approach 10x and swipe 30x after becoming physically fit, a good conversationalist, etc.? I'm not sure what the point is once you have a regular sex life. You might find yourself thinking, "I'm spending too much time meeting girls and having sex - I need to get some work done."

This is self-pitying?

Self-pitying would be saying that Asian men are at a disadvantage and there is nothing we can do about it: we are cursed from birth to have things 10x, 30x harder than they are for white guys. This appears to be Stickman's position (BTW I don't think Stickman is Asian). I'm not saying that. I'm saying that there are easy, straightforward things we can do to minimize or perhaps even nullify the disadvantage.

[EastAsianbro]

im East-Southeast asian mix but i definitely look like Eastern asian without the chinky eyes (could pass as chinese, japanese, korean)
5'8" 150lbs. naturally an ectomorph but i lift once per week. in Asian standards im not described as scrawny despite my weight. but more on the athletic side

it's really true that Asian is hardly of the top 3 when you ask an Anglo girl the race she finds attractive.

but still i wouldn't have it any other way if i could choose the race i was born in.

[anicca]

Weird, many of my asian male friends have fucked a lot more girls and a lot better quality (white girls) than my white male friends. It's all about beliefs.

[digitalconquistador]

Asian guys, with all due respect, I can't understand why some of you insist on hunting white girls? I'm sorry but know your strengths and weaknesses. Unless you're fu er dai tier rolling around in a Ferrari, hot white girls are going to be an uphill battle for you, that's just how it is. On the plus side, you have it ridiculously easy with girls of your own kind. You literally just have to be not a total fuckup. Go to China/SEA where you are perceived to be rich, gentlemanly, non-playboy, blah blah blah. I knew a Chinese American who looked like a chipmunk, wore coke bottle glasses, shorts with knee high socks, and was cleaning up in China as an English teacher, the girls were drooling over him... because "all ABCs are rich".

[Poseidon]

(11-18-2017 02:53 PM)digitalconquistador Wrote:  

Asian guys, with all due respect, I can't understand why some of you insist on hunting white girls? I'm sorry but know your strengths and weaknesses. Unless you're fu er dai tier rolling around in a Ferrari, hot white girls are going to be an uphill battle for you, that's just how it is. On the plus side, you have it ridiculously easy with girls of your own kind. You literally just have to be not a total fuckup. Go to China/SEA where you are perceived to be rich, gentlemanly, non-playboy, blah blah blah. I knew a Chinese American who looked like a chipmunk, wore coke bottle glasses, shorts with knee high socks, and was cleaning up in China as an English teacher, the girls were drooling over him... because "all ABCs are rich".

All I read in this post were:

"never take on a challenge"
"only go for the sure win"
"you're inferior, so stay in your lane"

Makes zero sense, if you ask me. More like a recipe for an inferiority complex and social mediocrity.

I'm not Asian and I don't know what race you are, but I guarantee there are lots of Asian dudes cleaning up hot white girls at much higher rates than you can wrap your head around.

[cotizado]

(11-18-2017 02:53 PM)digitalconquistador Wrote:  

Asian guys, with all due respect, I can't understand why some of you insist on hunting white girls? I'm sorry but know your strengths and weaknesses. Unless you're fu er dai tier rolling around in a Ferrari, hot white girls are going to be an uphill battle for you, that's just how it is. On the plus side, you have it ridiculously easy with girls of your own kind. You literally just have to be not a total fuckup. Go to China/SEA where you are perceived to be rich, gentlemanly, non-playboy, blah blah blah. I knew a Chinese American who looked like a chipmunk, wore coke bottle glasses, shorts with knee high socks, and was cleaning up in China as an English teacher, the girls were drooling over him... because "all ABCs are rich".

digitalconquistador, with all due respect, I can't understand why you insist on hunting girls? I'm sorry, but know your strengths and weaknesses. Girls are going to be an uphill battle for you, that's just how it is. On the plus side, you have it ridiculously easy with sex dolls. You literally just have to not be a total fuckup.

[yl718]

Just came back from my one day trip to Lublin. Several data: 1. Quite some Asian medical students from Taiwan and Thailand, so your exotic feature is low. 2. Small town, 1 day you can tour the entire old town in detail. 3. Lower English than Warsaw and Kraków, people was surprised that I speak conversational Polish. 4. Night life 90% Polish. Competition seems polarized. Many busted dudes but a few good looking guy.