[trainwreck]

I have several really good looking and fit friends. Somehow I still manage to pull better than them. They have the looks but what else? Don't see them being as successful in life as me or having the same kind of conversational skills as me. I think you just had an off night and you're now trying to rationalize it to yourself why you had a shitty night. Maybe your game was just horrible that night, it could be that easy.

If you're a guy.. just realize one thing: Looks. Don't. Matter. AT ALL. Well, I'm not counting a well fed and exercised body into that, because.. any good player should have it.

Plain looks may create attraction.. but a girls checklist about if she's going to fuck you is in 99% of the cases not going to be "is he going to be a model anytime soon".

The guy that I know that pulls most tail has a way too big of a nose, a typical russian face structure (looks like a box lol) but works out and has an amazingly loud laughter and voice that just pulls people into his spectrum. It doesn't hurt that he's done amazingly well business wise. The guy flakes on 99% of his dates to focus on work, which then leads girls to accepting any meetup proposal from his side after a while. But trust me, you won't find that guy anywhere near a magazine shoot anytime soon.

I regularly used to go out in Sweden with a guy who used to be in a Spanish teenie-soap opera (the guy is naturally ripped, tan, dresses well.. so perfect combo for the Swedes). I'm not a bad looking guy myself (even though I'd rate him at least a point higher) so when we go out, we do get a lot of attention and I usually end up having the best nights because we're a quite rare combo.. 2 good looking guys who have game. But there'd also be nights where our skinny 5'6 friend would get all the play. In the end, it's all just a numbers game. All you can do, is try to increase the success ratios. Your hot or ugly friend has nothing to do with the whole thing as long as he's not creepy or actively stealing girls from you.

[Samseau]

Looks fall under passive game. You still need active game to close.

[Kabal]

Male looks are often ex post projections derived from the man's style or status. That is, guys with game, high status, or good style are perceived to be better-looking than they are.

That being said, an exceptionally good-looking male friend can be a huge asset in a multitude of ways if you leverage it correctly, and if you can suppress your frustrations when he hooks sets you cannot simply due to looks.

I am pretty good-looking (a lot of my male friends think I pull just using looks) but being exceptionally good-looking can be like operating on a different playing field.

Contrast between you and your better-looking friend is key, in style, race, body shape, and disposition. No girl will want you if you are perceived to be the shoddier version of your friend.

Skin color/race is a valid concern and can function akin to "pure" looks. e.g. Blonde hair and blue eyes notoriously confer a substantial advantage in much of South America and South East Asia, being East Asian is a colossal disadvantage for gaming American white girls.

Now story-time.

He didn't know it, but a tall, handsome male acquaintance* I had just met this Friday, my first night out in this city, helped me close the next day on Saturday.

On Saturday, I was working on a girl in a nightclub and she lured me back into her group of friends of potential cock-blocking orbiters and girls. I would try extracting the girl a few times to go dance, go to the bar, etc. but the friends were not going away.

We came back to the group one of the times to see one of the girls (my girl's best friend of the group) talking to a guy. And the guy was this good-looking gentleman that I had met this Friday the night before.

Game being the Xanatos Speed Chess it is, my acquaintance was like a deus ex machina. Such a coincidence would be unacceptable in fiction.

The girls squealed as we shook hands and exchanged hellos. I dragged him deeper into the set, and he worked like a flash grenade. The would-be cockblockers dissipated into the smoky fog as their cause seemed increasingly hopeless.

Out of earshot and in the local language, my girl's friend told me and my girl how handsome she thought my acquaintance was, several times.

We eventually bounced the two girls to another bar. After an hour or so, I assumed the sale and said my girl and I were leaving, with no objections from the friend who was left my acquaintance.

I ended up sealing the deal, but he did not. Such is life.

*We were of different races, height, nationality, and body-shape (he's built more like a model, me an MMA fighter). So we filled out the contrast to the T.

[bojangles]

Matt C is one of my wings and is one handsome bastard, but I don't care as he's a good wing now (was a twat before) and I'd prefer to have a good handsome wing over a number of ugly 'cut your throat as soon as a hot girl is around' friends.

[brianmark]

I'd say do it. Use it to improve your game. Good looking guys are good bait to get girls. My main wingman was 15 years younger than me and 2 points higher, but his personality wasn't much. I used him as bait. It helped me get more women. He started getting nasty to me, so I finally dumped him. We're no longer friends. He has some loser friends with no game he can hang out with. He'll be single 20 years from now!

[snoop]

(12-16-2012 08:22 AM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  

Don't trip about it. You're born with your looks and yes you can enhance them to a certain extent but MENTAL and INNER game strength is something you CAN build.

To be honest not bragging but keeping it real, I'm blessed looks wise. I've done modeling for major brands, runway etc, BUT that has only helped me garner a bit more TIME when getting approached or opening a girl. I've had buddies say 'it's your looks bro', but it's bullshit. I've been rejected TONS of times and know that even with looks nothing beats Game. If you have both you can be a machine. Regardless the best players I've met in the game are below to average in looks but have MAD confidence and swagger. Girls eat that shit up.

Btw don't think it's all roses on this side of the fence because I've had multiple girls literally drive me insane with insecurity and one even dumped me for 'I feel like dating a really good looking guy is not smart because more girls want you so you'll probably cheat'. Uh ok...

If your buddy is a good wingman then cool but if he just takes and doesn't help you then stop going out with him.

I really believe that rolling out solo is the best way because some wings cause more trouble then they're worth.

Seinfeld said something once along the lines of "I get the benefit of the doubt for the first 5 minutes of a set b/c I'm Jerry Seinfeld, but after that I better be funny"

I think that relates here, no matter how good you look you still have to deliver at some point. And IME this can also be a drawback b/c their expectations of you will be higher. Then you have to also worry about if you are too "smooth" they can get standoffish on you bc they are scared you are playing them.

[germanico]

(12-16-2012 07:45 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Here is the funny thing that most people don't realize.

Both my friends that I mentioned above got rejected on the reg.

That just cements the notion that, if you are not getting rejected frequently, it just means that you are not really trying.

[46.]

(12-17-2012 10:01 AM)germanico Wrote:  

(12-16-2012 07:45 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Here is the funny thing that most people don't realize.

Both my friends that I mentioned above got rejected on the reg.

That just cements the notion that, if you are not getting rejected frequently, it just means that you are not really trying.

Yup. That reminds me of a quote by one of the greatest Americans of all time, convicted ex-Governor of Louisiana Edwin Edwards; "Three out of ten women will sleep with you. But ya' gotta' ask the other seven."

Doesn't matter if you're governor, whatever, you're going to get shot down. Back to the friends. In my experiences, kind of like a chess board, everyone can serve a purpose. A good looking shiny king can attract pawns n' s---, but alot of time its moves are restricted. Use these types of friends accordingly as suggested above, but realize its only an initial attraction to provide you with a platform to run your game.

[thegmanifesto]

(12-17-2012 03:42 PM)46. Wrote:  

(12-17-2012 10:01 AM)germanico Wrote:  

(12-16-2012 07:45 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Here is the funny thing that most people don't realize.

Both my friends that I mentioned above got rejected on the reg.

That just cements the notion that, if you are not getting rejected frequently, it just means that you are not really trying.

Yup. That reminds me of a quote by one of the greatest Americans of all time, convicted ex-Governor of Louisiana Edwin Edwards; "Three out of ten women will sleep with you. But ya' gotta' ask the other seven."

Doesn't matter if you're governor, whatever, you're going to get shot down. Back to the friends. In my experiences, kind of like a chess board, everyone can serve a purpose. A good looking shiny king can attract pawns n' s---, but alot of time its moves are restricted. Use these types of friends accordingly as suggested above, but realize its only an initial attraction to provide you with a platform to run your game.

Dope quote.

Edwin Edwards is the motherf*cking man.

I was going to read a book on him but never did.

That guy is the pinnacle of New Orleans connected-ness.

He helped bring the Casino there I believe with a bunch of other New Orleans heavies.

I have had a tiny bit of overlap with some characters down there.

All this New Orleans talk makes me want to shoot there.

Just saw this:

Quote:

Edwards was released from federal prison into a halfway house on January 13, 2011.[2] Supporters lobbied President Barack Obama for a pardon for Edwards so he might run in the 2011 Louisiana Gubernatorial Election. Edwards stated he would contest the election if legally allowed to do so.[3] Obama did not reply to petitions by supporters of Edwards, leaving him ineligible to seek the governorship again.

Come on Obama, keep it real.

[control]

I don't see a problem, I see an opportunity. An attractive friend is huge asset. When my average looking friends roll with me they get so many chances with hot women who would never give them time of the day if not for me. Not only I would not have any insecurities about a better looking friend, I would welcome it.

[germanico]

(12-16-2012 10:37 PM)houston Wrote:  

You can be ugly as fuck and 6'6 while a GQ 5'7 guy comes and leaps in like a tiger.

Or you could be a GQ 6'6 and beta as fuck and have a 5'7 gnome fuck your wife.

Game trumps all.

Looks help. Money helps. But only game matters.

[Virtus]

is your friend name El Guapo by chance? Would you say he has a plethora of girls at his call?

[sixsix]

I'm attractive myself and would welcome more friends that were also handsome and ripped. You enhance each other.

But the crux is the attitude. You have to have real friends: you want each other to succeed and he wants you to succeed. A guy that changes the moment a hot girls is involved should be discarded immediately. Trying to look better by making his friend look worse is hopelessly supplicating and unacceptable. Girls see that as well.

So it's more a confident attitude that's important. I have a friend who makes a great wing. He doesn't need any particular girl and doesn't take the girl seriously. He takes me seriously, and the girls are playthings and nothing to betray your principles over.

From best to worst:

1. Hot guy friends with game.
2. Plain looking guy friends with game.
3. Plain looking guy friends without game.
4. Hot guy friends without game, because those motherfuckers ruin the party when their inflated ego gets hit by getting-rejected-solely-for-your-personality. At least the plain betas don't have these petty entitlement issues.

Also, your friends can resent you for being too much more attractive and successful than they are. They still won't take your game advice, since they're bound by fear of rejection and they hate you for reminding them of their failure. Some don't.

[_DC_]

(12-17-2012 12:21 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Looks fall under passive game. You still need active game to close.

Truest quote on here. I have had at least 5 separate good friends tell me that I could take a cute girl home every night and model with some work. I've banged about 50 and in ALL but a few instances was tanked. Being tanked makes more more aggressive sometimes and these are ONSs.

I've been told I could clean up with more balls and more "don't give a fuck", but Ive struggled with it for my whole life.

As for attractive friends, my other good looking engaged friend and I go out... within 10 min if you swung a dead cat you'd hit 20 cute girls (this is Miami though mind you). When I go out with less attractive friends, still attention but less... multiplied by every average looking friend im with it goes down.

In short good looking friends only help IMO

[DVY]

@ Samseau- good looks is exactly passsive game. Brings girls attention, but no attraction. Its up to the dude's personality and actions to create that.

[20Nation]

(12-20-2012 01:16 AM)DVY Wrote:  

@ Samseau- good looks is exactly passsive game. Brings girls attention, but no attraction. Its up to the dude's personality and actions to create that.

Do you honestly think that good looks bring no attraction? lol

[DVY]

Yes and no.

Yes in that a simple hello will get her flustered.

No, its that its not the end all be all.

It definetely is enough when copious amounts of alcohol is involved....=)...

@20 Nation- Hows cambodia? Heard from travelhardcore that you are there now.

[Prowl]

I have a friend who is the pied piper of pussy, every girl comments on how good looking he is, etc.

His new gf was savagely and inappropriately hitting on me the last time we all were out, it was rad. Id never betray a bro, but knowing I could pull this dudes girl off him made me feel like superman.

[20Nation]

(12-20-2012 05:18 PM)DVY Wrote:  

Yes and no.

Yes in that a simple hello will get her flustered.

No, its that its not the end all be all.

It definetely is enough when copious amounts of alcohol is involved....=)...

@20 Nation- Hows cambodia? Heard from travelhardcore that you are there now.

It was OK, I had high expectations though. It's hard to do anything but shore. It has had such a crazy past that it's hard to connect with people. It is also the poorest country I have been to. I'm in Vietnam now and I like Vietnam more than Cambodia.