[xsplat]

Mark is a good writer with deep and frequent insights, but the punchline to all his stories is fundamentally anti-game.

Well, it is for me, as I consider successful intimacy to be the height of game. Developing enough initial attraction to bed a girl is only 1/10th of the game of dealing with women.

[Samseau]

(10-08-2012 08:53 PM)xsplat Wrote:  

Mark is a good writer with deep and frequent insights, but the punchline to all his stories is fundamentally anti-game.

Well, it is for me, as I consider successful intimacy to be the height of game. Developing enough initial attraction to bed a girl is only 1/10th of the game of dealing with women.

I don't think he's saying to avoid relationships, but marriage and children.

[MMM]

Here's more Minter from Rational Male. Awesome:

I deserve to have my comment called a “disatribe”. It does contain that ranting bitterness that most women in the blogosphere dismiss as the vitriolic rambling of the male divorcee.

I agree that if you want to have children that a dual parent household is the best environment.

But you do not have the say over whether that will happen. Men are just “Dancing Monkeys” for women and almost every activity that a typical young man does is to prepare himself to be chosen by a woman and then to lay his offering at the feet of the goddess and she accepts or rejects him and his efforts. And there is little that he can do about it.

Think of all the shit that a young boy has to go through to prepare to get “chosen”. It starts effectively at 14. You could almost honestly say that if a boy fails Algebra II and certainly Algebra I, has effectively filtered himself out of having a successful marriage by 2012 standards. That’s a harsh thing to say, but I base that on divorce statistics and how the upper levels of income have divorce rates that are more like the 50s. And in western society, the common ingredient of economic success is educational attainment.

And men start down this path of study and work, and even then, in the sexual marketplace they can be discarded despite the work, despite the effort.

Take a modern dating coach. His efforts with men are to teach them to eliminate behaviors and mannerisms that women use to reject him. Despite what he is on paper, his degrees, his income, the possibility that he might offer a woman, he is rejected often for the most trivial bullshit and the big picture of who he and what he offers is irrelevant. A female commenter above stated “I s* test because I want to know that he will protect me.” and my reaction is “From what? Lady, there aren’t any Sabre Tooth Tigers anymore. The shit you need to be protected from is a bill collector, homelessness, lack of esteem from lacking in financial capacity, sacrifices your kids will make from lack of resources and this guy is perfectly capable of protecting you from that.” Yet women will toss men aside for the most nothing reasons. It is stated that women will reject 80% of men and I think that number is far higher.

Now take the work the dating coach does with women. He has to teach them not to be so picky, to literally look for a reason to be attracted to a man. Here is a woman that economically and socially is beneath the man she is judging and yet she can find any number of reasons to justify rejecting him. She is constantly picking at him, pushing him, judging him, rejecting him. There was a famous Seinfeld episode where a woman was dumping Jerry after seeing his stand up act. She had been a pest all through her existence on the show and now she was dumping him. She said “I just can’t be with a man if I don’t respect what he does.” And Jerry replied “You work at a FotoMat!!”

And this doesn’t end with getting married. If anything, it intensifies. You continually go through fitness testing and what the work of Rollo and other writers like is to expose how and why that it happens. And when a woman deems you unfit by whatever criteria she wishes to employ, be it income, dick size, mannerisms, whether you toss and turn in the bed at night, whether your political beliefs fit what she deems a proper parent should be, religion or any 700,000 things that she and she alone deems are grounds for disqualification. When she pushes you out and sicks the dogs of the legal system and the divorce industry on you, then your life set into an inflexible slavery that you cannot shake.

The next thing I am going to say is extremely controversial. Marriage is so Second Wave. And it is over. This opinion comes from an intellectual analysis. It is like Network TV. There will still people that do it and want it but it will no longer be the dominant form of social organization. It will die a slow death over a couple of generations and men don’t realize that this is true will get run over.

Margaret Mead said “Motherhood is a biological reality; Fatherhood is a social invention”. A lot of the other stuff she said about culture determining behavior should be thrown out, but this one sticks with me. Men are not naturally predisposed to be fathers. And that role is entirely defined by social conditioning. If you never had children, you will never miss that you didn’t. The Male Social Matrix does not have Fatherhood as a measure of your worth. Your accomplishments, you talents, your personality, you, who you are, give you your worth among men.

And I say there is a better way for a man to spend his life than as a father and as a husband. That fatherhood role may be beneficial to greater society but it is a perfect waste of a life for a man. I say this as someone that has been married for 17 years and has two kids. That husband/father role was about 10 years of my 57 years. There are some significant memories I had from that time. But there are other memories from before and after that are just as significant to me as those from that father/husband time.

And, all in all, that was a lonely and a stupid time in my life. I busted my ass for those people and now that I am divorced, I don’t even get birthday cards. Not one of those kids ever spent a day in day care, I paid out the ass for nannies. I drove the shit car so my wife and kids could ride in new cars and have that nanny. I lived in a stupid, insipid, boring ass suburb where the neighbors would complain if you left your garage door open because it didn’t look good. I was beneath the dogs in getting my desires and needs meet. And even to them I was secondary. At night when everyone was up in bed, the dog would start to head upstairs and leave me alone. It was just like the Richard Pryor line “Rich, you cool and all that. But you are little tardy with the chow so I’m heading upstairs”.

And then it all got ripped away from me. And jobs and economics took me out the city where they lived to somewhere else. And I started to change. I was a high tech IT worker because it was the way to make the most money and when I chose jobs that was the first filter, that money. Cube life. Corporate headquarters. Meetings. Diversity training. Sexual harassment seminars. Political correctness. Boredom. Office politics. Every now and then I got a respite working in a start up that was more of the male sandbox and less of the female swing set but then the enterprise would go public and the women would come in and the whole thing was turn into something else, something worse. I was pissed and angry all the fucking time between how I got treated at home and forcing a square peg personality into the round hole of major corporation life. I needed anti-depressants. I needed Viagra. I needed Xanax to sleep.

So now I am not that guy. And I no longer am a husband and a father. And when I look back on all that shit, I think just how stupid it all was and how there has to be a better way for a man to live his life. I don’t really do much right now but what I do is what I want to do and I make no sacrifices to anyone in doing it. And I don’t need anti-depressants or Xanax. The biggest deal was to be 10 years older, 57 years old, and to no longer need Viagra and return to having erections as hard and as long as when I was 30. Explain that.

If you still think that being a husband and a father is the ideal way that a man should spend his life then you have only taken half a dose of the Red Pill. I’ll admit I suffer from the Dark Triad of personality attributes, narcissism, psychopathic tendencies, Machiavellian attitudes and am prone to selfishness. But it is obvious to me, especially now after months and months of huge amounts of reading Red Pill essays, that the gender role played by American Men, particularly as a father and as a husband is pure sucker play. I seen both the good sides and the very dark sides of it. You have been conditioned (read ‘duped’) to think that it is what you should do. If you truly unplug, then that belief has to go.

And a lot of my attitude that it should be avoided is not based on how it was, but more so on how it is going to be. I posed a question in a comment on this blog about how Rollo thought it was going to be 10 years, 20 years from now.

Roosh answered my question. It is going to suck. The tendencies of options, choice addiction, bitchiness, flakiness, and superhyper hyergamy are going to get worse. When I read the writings of women on the internet and the main stream media, I realize just how far apart we are, how dismissive they are of the chorus of angry men as bitter losers, betas who can’t get laid or bitter divorced men who deserved what they got. They are not changing to suit men and what men want. Look at that tweet from Hugo Mangina that is so dismissive of Rollo and what he writes no matter how cogent, how academic, it is to us.

And I think Roosh is the young guy who has his ass in the grass and he speaks with and interacts with thousands of women. You can say what you want about him but he is the product of his generation and I think he has the grip on the reality of how things are and how they are going to be. And his opinion of women, both foreign and domestic is that you are a fool to invest your life in them.

Roosh had this one post where he was saying that MRM is dead. He said he could care less. MRAs screamed about the abuses of women in marriage and in divorce and it didn’t affect him because he was not marrying an American woman. MRAs screamed about custody issues, child support and alimony injustices and it didn’t affect him because he wasn’t having children.

And that is it in a nutshell. You can’t change what has happened nor what is going to happen. You can only accept it and plan your life accordingly based on reality and logic.

And I will say this over and over. We are in a new epoch of social organization. There is no going back. There is no cure, no magic bullet that will turn back gender relations to 1968. The world is going to evolve to some other form of social organization other than one that is based on the family, the nuclear family.

And I, for one, look forward to it. I do not wish to return to 1955. I like the freedom I have in 2012 far more than the slavery I had in 1992 and 2002. Imagine the flexibility I would have at this time if I had totally eschewed women and saved the money they cost me. I wish I had the attitude I have today towards them, one of scorn, of disdain, of dismissal, of “amused mastery”. Women, for so long, were this mirror that I used to judge myself, how they viewed me, how they accepted or rejected was so instrumental of my self esteem and in the determination of my actions.

So now I say fuck them. Stop living for them and live for yourself. Women should be a fucking hobby and not the central focus of your life.

There is no “One”. There is no soulmate. One is as good as another. None are worth sacrificing for, none are even worth your time more than to convince them to fuck you. They will never love you as you love them. Their love is opportunistic and conditional. And most of all, it is temporary until that better deal comes along. She will leave you bleeding on the side of the road if suits her hypergamy. If the next woman isn’t better than the one you left, then the one after that will be. They are all the same under the hood. The only reason you think you value them is that you have fallen for the scarcity model. Sound familiar? I read every sentence of this paragraph on this blog. And these statements now my new marching orders. My new General Orders.

This is 2012 and like it or not, we are marching into the Brave New World. The PostModern is here, the Third Wave is here. If you try to stand with your feet placed in the Modern era or in the Second Wave, you are going to get run over. New forms of social organization are occurring right now. My Republican sister was bitching about how President Obama should be at the UN because Arab Prime Ministers wanted to meet with him over the embassy issues and he was on “The View”. I said “Fuck those Prime Ministers. They don’t vote for him. He has a 25 point lead with women in Ohio. Those guys don’t tell an American President how to set his agenda. Voters do. Female voters.” Since becoming Red Pill aware, I see this election as a gender based election, the first of many to come. All those old white men are going to start dying and that old Republican platform is going to die with them. And it will be replaced with a platform that tries to stem the advance of The Female Imperative and it will lose, just like it will lose this time.

So get a clue, women are looking for a new economic order to replace men as the economic resource in their lives. So you need replace them as your center of focus. If you block them from placing the chains on you that they wish to impose, then their agenda will have little affect on the immediate reality of your personal life. If you never marry and have children then you will never be subject to a litany of shit. Yes, you will have to deal with the workplace reality of them and the economic ramifications of the new social order that they construct. But if you don’t have a wife and kids then you can be so much more flexible in how you can deal with it.

And if you do reject marriage, then you will know freedom and flexibility in way that no men that came before us ever knew. It is useless to try to find a way to make marriage work, to turn back the clock to some era when men were dominant, were family leaders, and honestly you have no idea if that time really ever existed. My dad was alpha and my mom and him jammed because he was. Maybe my paternal grandfather was the leader, but I am sure that was specific to who he married more than it was that it was institutional. My maternal grandfather surely wasn’t in control of his house. My maternal grandmother was dominant alpha bitch in that house. And my mother was her daughter. I feel that those times were just a different version of The Female Imperative that worked for women then but is no longer necessary now.

So yeah, there is a remnant of anger in my posts and a lot could be called a diatribe. But there is more intellectual analysis than my language might lead you to believe. My rejection of marriage is based on what I believe will come as well as in my own experience of it.

Adam lived in Garden of Eden until that bitch Eve came along. To me, the apple is a metaphor for marriage and children. Adam didn’t have a PlayStation3 or the internet so he ate the apple to avoid being alone. He didn’t have 48% of women 25-30 or 28% of women 30-35 with a status of “Never Been Married”. He didn’t have the wide variety of sluts available to him. All he had was that bitch Eve. You have a lot more options than he did.

Fuck eating apples and fuck being married to women. The Third Wave Man has a far better future ahead of him then being Ken to some hypergamistic Barbie. I have gone beyond being angry at women and at divorce. Now I am happy that it happened to me and I look forward to variety that is available to me in my life now that those chains have been removed from me.

Your angst that most of you feel is in your mind and is based on what happened to you or on the loss of what was. Many of you feel powerless against modern women in their pursuit of hypergamy and their sexual manipulation of you.

Let go of it and go forward as a free man. Concentrate on the postings that enhance your Game and not on those postings that indict women or feminism. It is a waste of effort. It like standing it the beach and arguing with the tide.

Game is not only dominance cues and pickup tactics. It a belief structure that supplants much of what you have held before. Including Marriage and Fatherhood. It encompasses the truth about law, science, society, women, relationships, biology, anthropology and should be setting right at the forefront of your paradigm of belief structures even in the front of concepts like Capitalism and Democracy.

That you even wrestle with the concept that Game might be functional in marriage and what is alpha this and beta that just shows that you have not accepted reality for what it is. Let go. Let the transformation come over you and when it is done, you will be happier.

Game is my shepherd. I shall not want.

[Tengen]

(APPLAUSE!)

[WanderingSoul]

(10-08-2012 03:27 PM)jammer Wrote:  

Having kids without marriage is non-starter. Much better off having the kids in a marriage.

That completely depends on the marriage.

[reaper23]

he really sounds angry. he sounds like a guy that still hasn't come out the other side yet. things will temper down and his own solipsism will subside.

he made a series of horrible choices that lead to a horrible outcome. he did absolutely everything wrong. his life sucked because he made it suck.

the burr that got under his wife's saddle was put there by him being the most supplicating beta bitch ever.

just because his reality was that doesn't mean it is the reality for everyone. he is being just like a woman. his situation, his feelings of pain and regret shape what he thinks the entire reality is for all mankind.

it is not normal for a man's own children to cut off contact with him. something else pathological is happening there. its not the 'normal way of things.' and for him to feel as though his life as a father has ended after ten years makes him a piece of shit.

he is the piece of shit.


i will agree that game is a mindset that creates a new perception of reality, however. and within that reality there is a path to being a happy man that includes enjoying women and having children.

if game doesn't lead us to a mindset that can include children, then game is nothing more than a virus meant to select people out of the gene pool.

i for one have been through the entire process, although as more of a natural. i fucked up my marriage, thank god, because i didn't know how to manage my life and my woman. but as mark minter, i am happy about it because the woman i got i backed into like roissy talked about today. but my new woman, one i impregnated, came entirely because i had swallowed the red pill 100% and became the best man i could be. everywhere i go with my girl, people's heads turn. people remember us every time at restaurants and bars. we get free shit. we're memorably hot together. game helped me get that.

i run game on her still, and will always. and you know what, that list minter put at the beginning of his rant isn't that big of a deal, even if it is inaccurate. it is daunting when you're looking at it from zero. but when this is your mindset, when it is your reality, it is a simple as breathing.

life involves women. life involves children. life involves men. figuring out how to make it work is what i'm trying to do. i'm not trying to figure out how create a life devoid of people, but one rich with relationships and experiences....that i control.

[Tex Pro]

Mark Minter is chaingunning the "relationship game" argument. Love it.

[Excelsior]

(10-08-2012 04:00 PM)panache Wrote:  

I read a lot of posts on here that say men have a lot to lose from marriage, and that it is much better to stay single. However, I would like to point out, that a lot of the reasons I have read are strictly geared towards North American women.

Being in this situation, I find it hard to believe that marriage in general is bad for men, and I think it is more likely that marriage is bad when culture allows women to 'slut it up' and makes them believe that they don't need men.

This culture of feminism and women being obnoxious about not needing men as they grow older is limited to a lot of the modern developed countries, but I think the people on this site should be aware that this isn't the case in every country.

TL;DR - Marriage or LTR with traditional valued women from Oriental, Middle Eastern or South Asian backgrounds shouldn't be categorized with marriage with North American or European women.

Bingo. These are some of my first thoughts every time this type of discussion comes up.

Marriage 2.0 is the deal you don't want to sign up for, and this is the deal you get in North America (a little less so in Europe). Here, men must grapple with an incredible degree of female entitlement and a larger society/culture that does nothing but stoke it, requiring any male to put in an exorbitant amount of effort to keep things going. For his efforts, the male is also subjected to many great risks financially, caused by the legal system we live with (one of the more punitive in the developed world). The widespread shaming of age gaps makes the aging dynamic Minter mentions a bigger deal-you don't have much choice but to be married to a 55 year old wife at 57, whereas in other cultures the same man could easily have found a woman 10-15 years younger than this, mitigating the problem somewhat. The culture here makes marriage a rough deal for any guy, with the effect of making shorter term relationships much more attractive and easier to find.

Marriage 1.0 is the deal you may want to sign up for, and you can still find it outside of the USA. This deal involves a less severe culture of entitlement among the women, which means fewer hoops for the male to jump through and a more equitable, satisfactory partnership (read: she'll put in a bit more effort). The legal risks within a Marriage 1.0 contract are also lower.

We can't keep overlooking the cultural factor when it comes to this topic, guys. Everything Minter says is pretty spot on if you're dealing with American or maybe Canadian girls, but the dynamics shift when you start talking about Europe, Asia, Latin America, the Caribbean, etc. Women in many of these places are a bit more willing to do the things Minter insists his wife (and many others he knew of) would not, and that changes everything.

Bottomline: If you can get out of the matrix, marriage is still viable. If you're marriage minded, your long term goal should be expatriation. Marrying here is playing the game on hard mode. The culture will usually win.

[G Trooper]

AMAZING http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/10/0...ent-373596


on October 5, 2012 at 5:47 am | Reply Mark Minter

I don’t even have to read the comments. All of you have it wrong.

Abso-fucking-lutely wrong.

You are all crying and bitching and wanting to set back the clock and you need to get the fuck over it.

Better that government is married to bitches than you. Let me go through this logic for you real fucking slow so that you all can start to get it.

Being married is a stupid life for a man. Actually being a father is a also stupid life for a man the way it is done in America today. You do the most stupid and mind numbing shit in both of those roles. There are better ways to spend your life than as a husband and a father in 2012 America. Being a married father is an insipid, mind numbing, idiotic existence. You are a slave.

You live in a rigid schedule with a bitch that is never happy, that never has enough, is never satisfied, that is a cunt and a fucking idiot. She gets fat. She dresses like a man. Sex with her is a drag monotonous drag boring drag stupid drag. You have never ending stress and financial pressure and you must compromise your very soul in order to bring home the money that parasitic bitch and children demand from you. And they could not give a fuck about you. Everything is oriented towards her and them. Nothing is oriented towards you. Women have acres and acres of products for them and their children. Men have a aisle of shit over in the corner of stores.

Given the way women are, and the way most of you are, your odds of being in a marriage forever and not getting a divorce is about zilch.point.shit. 0.0000%. Enough zeros? Any of you that are married are probably on the way to divorce if you are not divorced already. Any of you that do get married surely will be divorced.

A man must avoid marriage, whether you are alpha as fuck or beta as a hell.

If you are an alpha then marriage is perfect waste of what you are. All alphas, real alphas, chafe under the yoke of marriage. They cannot be monogamous and why should they be? And, once you say “I do”, then you begin a slow march towards to loss of alpha qualities. If you think you can read Athol Kay and avoid this, you are kidding yourself.

If you are beta, then you will get fucked over in a marriage. Unless you earn in the top 20% of income, or in reality, the top 10% and your wife is not so attractive that she doesn’t has men throwing offers at her, then you will most likely get shafted. This outcome is one of the most written about topics in the Red Pill blogs.

Men must learn game. What is so fucking hard about this idea? Men need to accept that the way the world is and the way it is going makes learning Game the most important skill that any man can have, more than calculus, than computer skills, than knowledge of tools. Game. Get it? Game. The reason for game is more than pick up lines, it is about avoiding OneItis. Game is a lifestyle that will save your ass and save you needless slavery and pain.

Things are going to get worse in the future. Nothing can set back the clock. Women will get bitchier. Women will get fatter. In 30 years, 50% of women will be fucking obese. Not fat. OfuckingBese beasts. What few women that are attractive are going to get even shittier, flakier, bitchier, more choice addicted, bigger attention whores than even today. To fuck any of them you will have to have game. They will be besieged by hordes of men from 16 to 60.

This reality of the social and sexual power that single women have is trickling down through women to girls. Yesterday there was a big press release about the drop in teen pregnancy, as well as a drop in every other age bracket other than bitches that are running up against the wall., 35+ Analysts were surprised that even teen pregnancy dropped. They rationalized that the other drops in births in age brackets other than teens were due to economic reasons, but teen pregnancy is by accident and inadvertent. But for whatever reason, teen girls are going to lengths to insure they don’t get pregnant and fuck up the next 20 years of being “Classy and Fabulous” and short circuiting the brilliant career of attention whoring in front of them. They are getting a clue of the power of that pussy. The word is passing down that there is a real up side to being an attention whore. And having a baby is the biggest downer in that possibility more than any other factor.

There is chemical tendency in your fucking male body towards development of dopamine when you fuck a woman. She is like heroin and she will addict you and give you OneItis. This is another of the big Red Pill tenets, maybe the most important of all of them. The scarcity model creates OneItis in you.

The only way to vaccinate yourself from OneItis is FourItis.

If you have 4 women in a soft harem and you are spinning plates then you can walk away from a women when she tries to put that choke hold on you and drag you into the slavery of marriage.

Any plain looking woman with a pussy that isn’t an obese pig or over 45 is going to be able to throw her husband away and have some other guy there ready to jump right in there. Your wife is going have men sabotaging you at work, at the gym, anywhere she goes. No matter how much Athol Kay you read, eventually all this back-stabbing and offers from other men and women is going to take its toll. You will get divorce raped if you are stupid enough to marry.

You cannot marry. You have to spin plates.

It will be enormously easier to have bitches to spin as plates if all of them are not married. It is better for you if every fucking woman is single and is a slut than it would be if almost all were married. It will be so much easier for you to spin plates if there are plates to be spun. Even if that women sits home 29 nights a month, that 1 night that she steps out to shake that ass, then she is looking for dick and the motherfucker with game is the one that is going to be the one she chooses.

You cannot worry about “society” or “the economy” or “the future” or “the deficit” or the “growth of entitlements”.

You need to worry about you. You. You. Fuck everything else. Fuck tomorrow. Fuck the deficit. Fuck the Republicans. Fuck the economy. Do what is best for you. And appreciate that by letting those bitches get what they want from government and not marrying, then that works in your favor, you, your favor, you, the typical reader of this blog.

Go back to the original narrative about where “Alpha” came from, the Toba eruption that lead to 1000 years of Arctic winter and the number of bonding pairs reduced to less than 1000 over the whole world. Alpha had the Dark Triad of personality traits and this enabled him to survive, to get through, and women went with him because he was a survivor.

You have to have that same selfish self-interest. You can’t worry about what’s best for kids, or bankers, or job growth, or household formation, or any of that shit. Worry about you.

You cannot worry about the deficit or free markets or any economic shit that might come about because more and more benefits are given out to women in substitution of husbands. It won’t fall apart today and when it does fall apart you will be dead. If you are truly as narcissistic and as Machiavellian as you should be then you should not use any other filter than is a thing good for you. Feminism is good for you. It is freeing you from the stupidity of being some bitch’s husband. You get to live as a free man. It allows women to stay single so you can fuck them. Whatever negatives it has brought into society is trivial compared to the benefit of you not marrying anymore.

You need to be happy that it is happening. Even if it raises your taxes by 10%, or even 20%, it is still better than being married. If you marry, that bitch will take 80% from you while you are married and then take 40% in child support when she divorces you. If you marry, you are a slave.

It is said that marriage is the last resort of a bachelor. It is also said that a man marries because he is tired. Tired of dating. Tired of the bullshit the AFC goes through.

Think back to 1985. When a man got to be 28 and just entering into his peak in SMV then he starts receiving “Marriage signals”. His friends start dropping off into marriage, one at a time. Women that he is with start pressuring him. They would dump him if he didn’t agree to commit to marriage. When a guy was 35 and wasn’t married then he was effectively alone in a world of married people.

It’s not that way anymore.

Dalrock is adamant that women are the ones eschewing marriage and not men. So every woman that decides not to marry, then that is one more man that gets to live free, free of the financial tyranny, free of the emotional bullshit, free of the monotony and the boredom, free of the abuse that women heap on men during marriage.

The more men that are single then that begins to create market opportunities for men, more things that single men like, more clubs, more video games, more topless bars, more cars and products designed specifically for men, more housing options for single men. Options That are intended for only Single men and not married men that are making decisions with the filter of having a wife and family as the determining factor in their decisions.

I’ll give a very stretched connection. I have no data to support it other Event A happened and Event B happened. But I feel they are related.

The number of women that have the US government census status of “Never Been Married” has increased by 33% since 2000. 48% of women 25-30 have this status today, an increase of 16 percentage points since 2000 from 32% to 48%. For every one of those women that are not married, there is a man that is not married. So that means that the number of men that have “Never Been Married” has increased also. They are referred to as the Puearchy. It has grown considerably and is attracting the attention of pundits with this “Man Up” shaming bullshit.

Now, look at the growth in the amount of college football today compared to 2000. There is much more. Look at the size of the TV contracts that have recently been signed. Do you fucking think married men are sitting around watching college football all day on Saturday? No, those guys are being dragged around malls, kids sports and kids social events. But if you are single, this development is a fucking bonanza for you.

I read an article the other on how new Marketing strategies are emerging to actually tap this emerging market. Prior advertising oriented to men had some shaming factor in it. You should buy life insurance so your wife can have money when you die. You should buy our tires to keep from killing your kids. You should drink our beer, wear our clothes, our cologne so that women will want you. Some advertising is now actually appealing to motives that their product directly benefits you, the single man.

More unmarried men means a better life and more options for unmarried men. Real choices that are for you and not choices that you would make in sacrifice for some woman and her children. More of your friends stay unmarried. You have more options now.

So to sum, marriage is not for you, you, particularly, as a reader of this blog. You need to spin plates. You need women to avoid marriage because government allows them to feel the sense of security that they need to stay single. You want more men to be single and not get married so you have better and more market opportunities available that are designed for you, the single man. You want more women to be single and to be sluts. Because the more single women sluts there are, then more options for plate spinning that you have available to you. The more plates you spin, the less susceptible to Oneitis you are, and the more you avoid marriage. If you don’t marry then the effects of feminism, of divorce rape, of custody battles will have less effect on you. If there are more available single sluts then you get more pussy. It is in your benefit if no woman ever ever wants to marry ever again.

You need to embrace feminism and stop throwing rocks at it. OK, changes have occurred. I have been run over by many of them as much as anybody. Work in corporations suck now. They have fucked up a lot of shit for men. But the big picture is that they are freeing men from a truly stupid life and allowing them to live free in a meaningful form.

I don’t have to work a soul busting corporate job anymore to pay for some bitch that took 80% of the money that I made to spend on horseshit. I don’t have to sit in a fucking cube anymore surrounded by dweebs. I don’t have to sit in boring meetings and listen to bitches drone on. I do what I want. I eat what I want. I go where I want. I travel where I want. I work or don’t work when I want. I am now less lonely than I was because she went to sleep early and I was down in the living room watching the fucking stupid History Channel or reading one of 1000 books I read while I was married. I don’t have anyone looking over my shoulder at what I do, what I spend, where I go, who I talk to. I don’t have anyone whipping me, abusing me, screaming at me, manipulating me to do what she wants me to do.

Because of feminism, I am fucking free. I am no longer a husband living that boring stupid life, and I no longer have to work in a stupid corporation to get the money to pay for the life that bitch constructed. I am no longer a slave.

The reality is Women’s Liberation means Men’s Liberation. Let them go their fucking way. Let them be single moms. Let them work the stupid jobs that this economy is producing in those Femcentric companies.

Better Obama is their husband than me. And you. The monetary price you would pay is worth the freedom that you will get.

Stop fighting it and see it for what it is.

[brownman]

I think a major point this hinges on is cultural bias, for western women I would immediate agree. However, for Asian, Oriental, African and Arab cultures - there is an underlying expectation of marriage. Virgins are still valued here and cultures are conservative. Many women look forward to motherhood, though with globalization, you can see many things changing.

Panache, you have it right for Dubai. This was my hometown, patriarchy runs strong here. In divorce, a father has the right to his legacy, his kids. For the pre-nup, a woman has a predetermined sum allocated to her that is her right in case of a divorce. Most women would go through hell before suffering that shame. I would say most eastern cultures have a similar view.

Men can have 4 wives; you guys have seen the effects of having harems both for yourself and your women in the know. The same concept is done on a legal and responsible basis. Many guys marry another 20 year old every 10 years or so. It's a symbiotic and sustainable relationship. The women understand this dynamic and are cool with it.

The system is the polar opposite of the west - two groups you see hating the most are gays and feminists. It's not about women's clothing, if anything it means the women get more respect, you know no guy knows what your girl looks like, no worries. Guys who have been here can probably vouch that even though fully covered, the women still manage to look feminine.

In my travels in the US, you guys have it bad in the long term, but for short term, it's still a good place - the west in general. The individualism helps you achieve your potential, game hard and get the pussy. Abroad, yes it will help, realize this though, if you treat them like western women, they will become western women - look at Prague and other places getting ruined.

When I first got into game, one concept left a mark on me, leave a woman better off than you met her. For western women this is paradoxical and I wouldn't recommend it. For other cultures, it can only help you. Pumping and dumping is all in good fun, but similar to the greed of Wall Street, it could have long term implications for yourself and others. Would leading on a girl who dreams of marriage and has the potential to be a good wife be worth it? Aren't you feeding the endless cycle?

A player can be alluded to as a social commando, you can do mad damage and get mad pussy. It also has a destructive side to it that can be exercised at will. Realize that there are no rules in the game, you live by your own rules. But, you have to draw the line somewhere, not based on bitterness and past experience, but on pure unadulterated objective reason - a gift only men posses and few exercise. What Prague is now is because of what the men before it did. Everything you do in your life is ultimately tied to your legacy - the mark you leave on this world and in the lives of others.

[Rah]

"Get it through your head, Men are from mars; women are FUCKING IDIOTS."

[Deluge]

(10-09-2012 07:40 PM)brownman Wrote:  

I think a major point this hinges on is cultural bias, for western women I would immediate agree. However, for Asian, Oriental, African and Arab cultures - there is an underlying expectation of marriage. Virgins are still valued here and cultures are conservative. Many women look forward to motherhood, though with globalization, you can see many things changing.

Speaking broadly about Asia (excluding the Middle East), people underestimate how Westernized sex is there. My parents are from that part of the world, divorce is "no big deal" there anymore, adultery goes on a lot more then you'd think and being a virgin at marriage hasn't been the norm for a very long time (so valued yes, normal no). Dudes from these countries will often rather die then admit that though because so many of them pedestalize their women into thinking they're all pure as snow.

[xsplat]

(10-09-2012 02:38 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(10-08-2012 08:53 PM)xsplat Wrote:  

Mark is a good writer with deep and frequent insights, but the punchline to all his stories is fundamentally anti-game.

Well, it is for me, as I consider successful intimacy to be the height of game. Developing enough initial attraction to bed a girl is only 1/10th of the game of dealing with women.

I don't think he's saying to avoid relationships, but marriage and children.

Maybe I'm reading him wrong, but what I hear is that any sort of genuine intimacy and bonding is now out of the question to him. Women are to be used and discarded in a strictly pump and dump fashion.

I know it's a popular sentiment. I just think it limits a mans pleasure, as most of us enjoy various types of affection and emotional intimacy.

I'm assuming that he has a sour grapes attitude and doesn't believe that intimacy with women is possible.

[xsplat]

Also, Mark seems to not have knowledge of highly advanced LTR game, and now seems uninterested in learning it.

It is my contention that game that only addresses getting women into bed is 1/10th of what is required for successful LTRs and medium term relationships and even harem management.

I don't consider it an "abundance mentality" to forego intimacy just because getting new conquests is easy. Men have emotional needs that will go unfulfilled if all we do is have fuck buddies and one night stands.

The point of game isn't to validate ourselves with notches to hold up as flags to other men. It's to live a happy fulfilled life.

In order to maximize happiness, you have to be expert at what Krauser calls "deep conversion". Expert at getting women head over heels in love and keeping her that way. And then more - expert at turning them into devoted love slaves.

Getting the notch isn't the whole game.

[iknowexactly]

(10-09-2012 05:43 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

he really sounds angry. he sounds like a guy that still hasn't come out the other side yet.

life involves women. life involves children. life involves men. figuring out how to make it work is what i'm trying to do. i'm not trying to figure out how create a life devoid of people, but one rich with relationships and experiences....that i control.

Well, if you fully control ALL your experiences, you'll tend to miss out on new ones which you have to kind of let go of control to allow them to happen.

I also feel this guy's essay was strange, it had me really agreeing at first, it's a very persuasive....hatchet job on women essentially.

This quote is kind of a warning. Here is a guy directly telling you he doesn't want to know what you think, because he's got it all figured out..."

"I don’t even have to read the comments. All of you have it wrong."


No new information, please. The closed-loop mind of a paranoid personality, grandiose in its certainty and contemptuous of those missing THE truth.
Also I agree with you the level of alienation from people sounds a little outside of the healthy range.

But what's healthy for an average person, the abstract average person, is not good for everyone.

Just like IT chicks seem cold to me, talented IT guys seem the same way to me. i used to be a programmer, but I was mediocre. I got called on the carpet for having five minute conversations with co-workers. I was supposed to be married to the machine.

You learn to recognize personality types when you work in mental health, people who are paranoid, not to the point of psychosis but just that they tend to ascribe negative motives to others, LOVE machines... love computers.

Computers are complex but predictable, and they grant you power over others because few people are talented enough to control/program them.

So you get a sort of cluster of characteristics with people who:
1) Are very into computers, and often talented and make money with it.

2) Are suspicious of the motivations of people, especially women who are not rational.

3) Tend to have weak pair-bonding circuitry. In this case, arguing in a hard-core manner for "spinning plates" as the only ideal lifestyle.

and in his case, he apparently doesn't even have strong bonds with his own kids, which is pretty far out on the spectrum of detachment from others.

The detachment, plate spinning, pump-n-dump approach he idealizes may be the only way a rigid guy like him can be happy. He can't tolerate someone interfering at all with his independence.

There's always a trade-off between companionship and independence, and each person has an optimal balance. Hopefully you and your chick ( or you and your succession of chicks) have similar levels of intimacy needs.

I don't want to be a constantly receding cipher.

I'm not saying attachment proneness is good or bad ( he's implying it's simply stupid), just that each person has their own circuitry, and trying to live your life as if you have someone else's can be a mistake.

I have high pair-bonding tendency, I like the idea someone knows me, is compassionate about my weaknesses, and wants to be known by me.

I don't want to come home to a house that's always empty. I don't want to have to constantly play with distancing and intimidation with a mate.

No one's right, there's just a wide spectrum.

And a "beta" guy like me should not seek or tolerate a bitch who is always trying to weasel advantage like a hypergamous robot.

A "plate spinning" player might be bored with anything less, cuz she's "hot."

Or he might prefer sweet naive women whom he can pump-n-dump, which isn't even that bad for me, as after that treatment some of them will be yearning for a beta with a heart. I don't concur with the "five minutes of alpha theory"; whereby women are infinitely stupid and will always want a guy like the guy who toyed with her and ditched her.

I remember an interview with actress Cybil Shephard, who was very beautiful, in her TV series she played opposite Bruce Willis, who was a bad boy to her perfectionist.

When asked by an interviewer if she had wanted to sleep with him as the character interaction implied, she denied it, saying something like "I went through therapy to learn to avoid guys like that."

She realized her innate alpha-seeking was seriously self-destructive.

And before she becamse an actress, she was a 9+ internationally known model; an extremely desirable woman. So she could have had a succession of alphas. But she didn't want it. She probably had a good ability to pair bond.

[brownman]

PDog, I agree with you on that basis, it's happening quickly in the middle east as well. Though right now it's done behind closed doors and those in the know can take advantage, it's only a matter of time. It's sad to watch an entire people throw away their identity to pursue pleasure. I think this place will have potential in a few years.

[Johnny Football]

(10-09-2012 03:48 PM)MMM Wrote:  

So now I say fuck them. Stop living for them and live for yourself. Women should be a fucking hobby and not the central focus of your life.

This.

[Samseau]

Mark Minter Wrote:

If you are truly as narcissistic and as Machiavellian as you should be then you should not use any other filter than is a thing good for you. Feminism is good for you. It is freeing you from the stupidity of being some bitch’s husband. You get to live as a free man. It allows women to stay single so you can fuck them. Whatever negatives it has brought into society is trivial compared to the benefit of you not marrying anymore.

I've always thought this too.

Quote:

Which system was more fair to beta males? The system of marriage, whereby men were sold a marriage in the name of social stability, or today's free-love world, where beta males get nothing and still have to pay taxes?

We think the old system of marriage was better for betas, but it's probably not true.

The old system of marriage was worse than the current sexual system we have today, because at least today beta males have their freedom. Before, once married, the beta was chained to his wife and any illegitimate offspring she might have had. And regardless of the beta reproducing, he was still stuck with an aging battleax.

Obviously, not all betas had terrible fates in the days of marriage. Many got hot wives and had many children with them. They still had to put up with the ugliness of the woman in her old age, but at least they had a strong family to make up for it.

But think of all the marriages that have ended in divorce since the 1970's. In the old days, divorce was prohibited or unfeasible. What happened is that if you got married to a total bitch, you were stuck with her for life. That's a fate worse than death.


So, to answer the question "who benefits from the sexual revolution", I'd say most, if not all, men do. Just because betas don't live anything like alphas shouldn't distract us to the reality of life for betas of past: total drudgery. Halving your rights and doubling your duties.

[DarkTriad]

(10-10-2012 12:45 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Mark Minter Wrote:

If you are truly as narcissistic and as Machiavellian as you should be then you should not use any other filter than is a thing good for you. Feminism is good for you. It is freeing you from the stupidity of being some bitch’s husband. You get to live as a free man. It allows women to stay single so you can fuck them. Whatever negatives it has brought into society is trivial compared to the benefit of you not marrying anymore.

I've always thought this too.

Quote:

Which system was more fair to beta males? The system of marriage, whereby men were sold a marriage in the name of social stability, or today's free-love world, where beta males get nothing and still have to pay taxes?

We think the old system of marriage was better for betas, but it's probably not true.

The old system of marriage was worse than the current sexual system we have today, because at least today beta males have their freedom. Before, once married, the beta was chained to his wife and any illegitimate offspring she might have had. And regardless of the beta reproducing, he was still stuck with an aging battleax.

Obviously, not all betas had terrible fates in the days of marriage. Many got hot wives and had many children with them. They still had to put up with the ugliness of the woman in her old age, but at least they had a strong family to make up for it.

But think of all the marriages that have ended in divorce since the 1970's. In the old days, divorce was prohibited or unfeasible. What happened is that if you got married to a total bitch, you were stuck with her for life. That's a fate worse than death.


So, to answer the question "who benefits from the sexual revolution", I'd say most, if not all, men do. Just because betas don't live anything like alphas shouldn't distract us to the reality of life for betas of past: total drudgery. Halving your rights and doubling your duties.

I respectfully disagree. There have been winners and losers to the sexual revolution, and betas were the losers. A hardworking beta schmuck that is permavirgin in his 20s nowadays (or close to it) was married and getting regular sex from a pre-obesity epidemic woman back in the day.

Have you seen ugly rock stars scoring hotties due to their status? Before feminism, ALL men had an enhanced status compared to today. Women just straight up liked and respected men more. This gave even your basic beta provider a bit of "rock star" status in his own home. Not a huge amount, but enough to dramaticly improve his quality of life.

Since women are attracted to status, collectively lowerng the status of men made ALL men less attractive. It would be like if all women in America suddenly gained another 15 pounds (again). Now you have to be some kind of mini-celebrity to enjoy the status a decent hardworkng man enjoyed years ago.

[DarkTriad]

(10-10-2012 12:45 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Mark Minter Wrote:

If you are truly as narcissistic and as Machiavellian as you should be then you should not use any other filter than is a thing good for you. Feminism is good for you. It is freeing you from the stupidity of being some bitch’s husband. You get to live as a free man. It allows women to stay single so you can fuck them. Whatever negatives it has brought into society is trivial compared to the benefit of you not marrying anymore.

I've always thought this too.

Quote:

Which system was more fair to beta males? The system of marriage, whereby men were sold a marriage in the name of social stability, or today's free-love world, where beta males get nothing and still have to pay taxes?

We think the old system of marriage was better for betas, but it's probably not true.

The old system of marriage was worse than the current sexual system we have today, because at least today beta males have their freedom. Before, once married, the beta was chained to his wife and any illegitimate offspring she might have had. And regardless of the beta reproducing, he was still stuck with an aging battleax.

Obviously, not all betas had terrible fates in the days of marriage. Many got hot wives and had many children with them. They still had to put up with the ugliness of the woman in her old age, but at least they had a strong family to make up for it.

But think of all the marriages that have ended in divorce since the 1970's. In the old days, divorce was prohibited or unfeasible. What happened is that if you got married to a total bitch, you were stuck with her for life. That's a fate worse than death.


So, to answer the question "who benefits from the sexual revolution", I'd say most, if not all, men do. Just because betas don't live anything like alphas shouldn't distract us to the reality of life for betas of past: total drudgery. Halving your rights and doubling your duties.

I respectfully disagree. There have been winners and losers to the sexual revolution, and betas were the losers. A hardworking beta schmuck that is a permavirgin in his 20s nowadays (or close to it) was married and getting regular sex from a pre-obesity epidemic woman back in the day.

Have you seen ugly rock stars scoring hotties due to their status? Before feminism, ALL men had an enhanced status compared to today. Women just straight up liked and respected men more. This gave even your basic beta provider a bit of "rock star" status in his own home. Not a huge amount, but enough to dramaticly improve his quality of life.

Since women are attracted to status, collectively lowerng the status of men made ALL men less attractive. It would be like if all women in America suddenly gained another 15 pounds (again). Now you have to be some kind of mini-celebrity to enjoy the status a decent hardworkng man enjoyed years ago.

[littleG]

Quote:

Since women are attracted to status, collectively lowerng the status of men made ALL men less attractive. It would be like if all women in America suddenly gained another 15 pounds (again). Now you have to be some kind of mini-celebrity to enjoy the status a decent hardworkng man enjoyed years ago.

Pressure makes diamonds. You've got to adopt the mindset, "Rise to the challenge or masturbate." Don't hate the game, be a player.

[DarkTriad]

(10-12-2012 08:18 PM)PJ25 Wrote:  

Quote:

Since women are attracted to status, collectively lowerng the status of men made ALL men less attractive. It would be like if all women in America suddenly gained another 15 pounds (again). Now you have to be some kind of mini-celebrity to enjoy the status a decent hardworkng man enjoyed years ago.

Pressure makes diamonds. You've got to adopt the mindset, "Rise to the challenge or masturbate." Don't hate the game, be a player.

Agreed 100%. Another issue is that the old system gave betas was Assortive Mating - a 7 date a 7, a 5 dates a 5. Nowadays, snce the top players monopolize the top talent to such a degree, that whats' left over for regular guys isn't very good.

Now a male 7 has to date a 5, and guy that's a 5 has to date....you don't even want to know.

[Barbarossa]

This state of existence won't last forever, it kills the birth rates of a society and that will lead to economic collapse, as the population pyramid goes upside down, and the working age have to support 2 old people. You can already see this issue with Medicare. The long term implications (short term now because this trend has been going on since the 60s) are not good. We are the Roman Empire in AD 300. Maybe technology will save us. Maybe.

[iknowexactly]

(10-13-2012 09:22 PM)Barbarossa Wrote:  

This state of existence won't last forever, it kills the birth rates of a society and that will lead to economic collapse, as the population pyramid goes upside down, and the working age have to support 2 old people. You can already see this issue with Medicare. The long term implications (short term now because this trend has been going on since the 60s) are not good. We are the Roman Empire in AD 300. Maybe technology will save us. Maybe.

We've got tons of Mexicans, who aren't emotionally sterilized like WASPS, and like having kids.

As far as I'm concerned, we couldn't get invaded by a nicer and more amiable people to pay for my Social Security for the next few decades.

[Katatonic]

I'm going to use the fuck out of this quote or variations of it:

Quote:

Women say old men are pervs for wanting to fuck young girls.
Fuck I would think it is perverted to fuck old women. It is natural as a motherfucker to want to fuck young women.

I'm 33 and have friends who take exception to me fucking 18-22 year olds.