[Roosh]

Samseau originally discovered a manosphere commenter (link) who is dropping serious wisdom all over the place. Here's another gem via Rational Male:

Quote:

I was reading the Red Pill Blog (It’s a very good blog if you have never read it. I highly recommend his article on The Female Social Matrix. It is very long. Here is a link to it: http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2012/...ction.html ). The writer is another guy that has been married for 21 years. One of his articles says you can’t be alpha part of the time. His wife says “Foreplay begins in the morning when your feet hit the floor after you wake up” He begins this list of things you should do:

That means being the leader every day.
That means being decisive in your leadership every day.
That means soliciting her opinions before you make a decision about something important, every day.
That means ensuring the health, safety, and welfare for your family every day.
That means household maintenance every day.
That means working out in some way, every day.
That means making at least three good DHV Alpha moves every day.
That means intriguing her sense of curiosity or wonder every day.
That means making her come to you, not the other way around, every day.

And this is just a fragment of his list and I started thinking after reading about a third of the way through it, “Fuck it”. It’s such a load of shit to go through just to be with a woman. You just can’t “be” with one. There is always going to be this tension that you are going to be put through in one form or another. You either are the perfect little beta with a side of alpha that is the best little handyman or you have to now go through this contrived alpha shit that Ian Ironwood lists above.

its such a lot of shit to go through just to have some regular pussy. That’s not really even regular and it gets real tired. It is far better to fuck new pussy then your old tired ass wife and look that crap you have to go through to even get that.

And none of it is guaranteed to work and most of this is just conjecture. A few married guys that a “her-i-cane” hasn’t made “landfall” into his life and his marriage are like people living in Orlando telling people in southern Alabama how best to avoid a hurricane. Just because a major hurricane hasn’t hit Orlando doesn’t mean one won’t ever hit there.

I am 57. I am divorced. I live without a woman. I was sad and mad for about four years after the divorce. But now, not a day fucking goes by that I am not actually thankful that I don’t have that woman in my life. I don’t mean just a little bit thankful. I mean I am fucking giddy about it. Being happy is fucking easy. All you have to do to be happy is not be unhappy. I can’t really tell you how to be happy but I can fucking tell you how to be unhappy. Have a 55 year old wife. That’s how.

There are 3 women in their late forties or fifties that all three live right next to each other, right by me. I look at them and I am so glad I don’t have one of these beasts in my bed. My mother died way before my father and he never went with another woman. It wasn’t any devotion to her. He hated her. He was sick of her. She harangued and henpecked him for 40 or years. And he was alpha as mother fucker and he had all those good beta qualities of regularity and dependability that a woman could want in a man. He was 6’3″ 220 pound Sergeant-Major in the military that was about the meanest looking mother fucker you would see every week.

He had a command voice that would freeze children in their tracks. I would run into his young troopers on the base when I was a teenager and when they found out who I was they would say “Your dad is a mean fucking asshole”. I would reply “You’re telling me something I don’t know. I’m his fucking son. Try that on for a while.” But no matter what, how alpha you are or what good alpha/beta mix you are there is still going to be something that is going to put a burr in that woman’s saddle. He was a good man and a good husband and still they ended up sleeping in different rooms.

All this ink and writing about how to be some alpha with some beta in you or a beta with some alpha in you is a fucking waste of time. There is no solution to this. Women and men are too far apart and there is no reconciliation. They have opinions that are rationalized, solipsistic, false, or generalized. They have the advantageous position of having a pussy that you want more than they want your dick, and they have the law, religion, and the media on their side. The highest rate of divorce is among interracial marriages of white woman and black men. And you know those relationships are the best example of women wanting to marry alpha dick and that is the only reason that the woman married the man.

Get it through your head, Men are from mars; women are FUCKING IDIOTS.

Never marry. Duh. Plate Theory. Duh. Game. Duh. Pump them, dump them, next them. Duh. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO WIN. Duh!!!!!

You have no idea how young you are going to feel when you are 57 and how old those women will be when they are 57. You will not feel a lick of shit older or different when you are 57. Your dick will work, your body will work. You will still be viable sexually. And that women will be a broken down piece of shit with a dead vagina and a body that would disgust you to see her naked much less fuck her. My ex-wife would be 50 years old right now and I have no idea how I could actually bring myself to fuck her knowing how she probably looks without clothes right now. Women say old men are pervs for wanting to fuck young girls.
Fuck I would think it is perverted to fuck old women. It is natural as a motherfucker to want to fuck young women. Duh.

You can’t fucking win at this game. Get a fucking PS3. Get DirectTV. Get a lot of guy friends. Go fishing. Get some kind of Game be it alpha game or beta game to make them think you will be their sucker provider and then run away after you get the trim.

Whatever, just never marry. I am starting to get bored with this theme, how to be a better husband by being more alpha.

It won’t work.

You cannot look at a 40 year old women today and say that today’s thirty year old will be just like that when she is 40. You can’t even look at a 30 year old today and say today’s 20 year old will be like her. You have no idea what any of them are going to be like when they get older. The only reason women stayed with men in the past was because they had to and now they don’t and they won’t. Maybe if you are in the top 10% of income and your wife doesn’t work then she might stay with you.

There was this piece in The Atlantic a few days ago called “The Weaker Sex”. It profiled 3 women as something the female writer called the DWP club, divorced women professionals. It profiled 4 women, three were already divorced and loving it. They had fucking weekends off from kids. The Ex husbands came and got the kids. So they had female nirvana, money, independence, nobody trying to fuck them, and someone else to raise the kids on the weekends. The fourth had a househusband, who she fucking abused, and the writer made him look like a nitwit idiot and hinted this woman was well on the way to getting a divorce. All made mid six figure incomes. Women will only stay with you if they have to and they don’t have to any fucking more. Get it through your head. They get just as sick of your dick as you will with their tired ass boring pussy.

Pump them, dump them, next them.

If you do this, if you never marry, and they invent time machines in the next 30 years, your 57 year old self will fucking come back and thank you for doing it. If you don’t listen to me, then your 57 will come back and say “Listen to me you little idiot, when you meet a blond woman named Suzanne from Long Island, New York, RUN!!!!!”

I never really considered marriage, but this guy is sealing the deal!

[aphelion]

I've seen this guy post on some real shit too. He's a legit gangster and his writing skill on comments beats most posted comments on actual established blogs.

---

ariseandexcel.wordpress.com

[Tex Pro]

Yeah, marriage seems like a bad deal these days.

I too am tired of some guys in the manosphere trying to push "game" as a solution to marriage problems. You lost the game if you get married, plain and simple. Women have too many advantages in marriage these days. Better not to get hitched at all.

[storm]

I never knew the married-game movement was taken seriously enough to need such a thorough retort.

I once read this fetish book titled "under her thumb", where it instructs a woman to use behaviorism principles (explicitly: orgasm denial) to train a man to do all the housework, give her the finances, etc. It will work because he will keep coming back and has no other source of physical pleasure. And why is that? Only because he's married.

Shit is whack.

[RawGod]

Truly epic comment thread that Roosh linked to in the OP...

[alecks]

(10-08-2012 03:29 AM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

Yeah, marriage seems like a bad deal these days.

I too am tired of some guys in the manosphere trying to push "game" as a solution to marriage problems. You lost the game if you get married, plain and simple. Women have too many advantages in marriage these days. Better not to get hitched at all.

mark minter speaks serious truth.

@texasprophet, you are dead right man.men have everything to lose and nothing to gain,women have the upper hand in marriage whether we like it or not.Moral of the story = never marry.Im not even 20 years old yet,PHEW!! lol

pump and dump till you die.

[scorpion]

Damn, now that's what I call spittin' hot fire.

The man is on point.

Personally, I'm not so full of myself as to believe that I know better than the countless men with direct experience who have been there, done that with marriage and have nothing but regrets.

As a result I have no desire or plans to insert the state as an unwelcome and unneeded third party in my sex life.

[Lucky]

I love Mark Minter's posts.

I clicked on his name in the comments section which lead to his facebook page.

On his profile he is interested in "Men and Women."

Not that there is anything wrong with that, it was just a bit jarring.

[dirtman]

marriage vs no marriage will likely be the thing that divides mostly like-minded red pill men into two camps that will never agree.

hooray for division (sarcasm)

[Roosh]

(10-08-2012 09:54 AM)Lucky Wrote:  

I love Mark Minter's posts.

I clicked on his name in the comments section which lead to his facebook page.

On his profile he is interested in "Men and Women."

Not that there is anything wrong with that, it was just a bit jarring.

Maybe he's a feminist plant working to destroy the nuclear family.

He is quite mum on his kids, though.

[Tuthmosis]

Who's going to send him his invitation to the forum?

[Samseau]

(10-08-2012 09:54 AM)Lucky Wrote:  

I love Mark Minter's posts.

I clicked on his name in the comments section which lead to his facebook page.

On his profile he is interested in "Men and Women."

Not that there is anything wrong with that, it was just a bit jarring.

Guy hates women so much he went gay? LOL I've had gays try and use that logic on me... "Women aren't worth it... why do you put up with them?"

I dunno, I'd have to hear a statement from Minter himself before I could conclude anything though.


Regardless, excellent find on this guy, he just writes these amazing rants that suck you in...

Quote:

But no matter what, how alpha you are or what good alpha/beta mix you are there is still going to be something that is going to put a burr in that woman’s saddle. He was a good man and a good husband and still they ended up sleeping in different rooms.

I've always thought this, and it's good to see others agree. No matter what you say or do, it's inevitible you'll piss a woman off. You don't even need to be thinking about it. Just goes to show how futile "relationship game" is. I say just play hard ball. "It's my way or the highway, babe."

[j r]

There are two kinds of men who are going to get married: men who want a family and men who believe in spending your life with "the one." Most men on this type of forum probably don't believe that there is any such thing as "the one," so let's lose them from this conversation.

What you now have is men who think marriage is a raw deal to be avoided and men who think that marriage is the price to pay for having kids. We can go back and forth about the pros and cons of each, but I don't think that either side is really capable of winning over the other. It just comes down to different sets of priorities.

[Samseau]

Why can't you have kids and not have marriage?

[Menace]

(10-08-2012 02:59 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Why can't you have kids and not have marriage?

That's what I keep wondering. You get married, you have kids, you get divorced. Now you have kids but no marriage. If you love your children you owe them a moral duty to be in their life. You owe them a legal duty regardless of the circumstance (under the present law).

So who potentially loses out....the woman. You owe her no legal duty if you were never married. That means no money that's just for her (ignoring stealth alimony here). That's why the pressure to get married. So it's not all about the children. It's all about the woman. As usual.

[jammer]

Having kids without marriage is non-starter. Much better off having the kids in a marriage.

[j r]

You don't need marriage to have kids, but I think that a two-parent household is the best situation in which to raise kids.

I will probably get married, but with the understanding that I won't stay if things go south.

[Basil Ransom]

(10-08-2012 02:58 PM)j r Wrote:  

What you now have is men who think marriage is a raw deal to be avoided and men who think that marriage is the price to pay for having kids. We can go back and forth about the pros and cons of each, but I don't think that either side is really capable of winning over the other. It just comes down to different sets of priorities.

+1.

(10-08-2012 03:11 PM)Menace Wrote:  

(10-08-2012 02:59 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Why can't you have kids and not have marriage?

That's what I keep wondering. You get married, you have kids, you get divorced. Now you have kids but no marriage. If you love your children you owe them a moral duty to be in their life. You owe them a legal duty regardless of the circumstance (under the present law).

So who potentially loses out....the woman. You owe her no legal duty if you were never married. That means no money that's just for her (ignoring stealth alimony here). That's why the pressure to get married. So it's not all about the children. It's all about the woman. As usual.

(10-08-2012 03:11 PM)Menace Wrote:  

(10-08-2012 02:59 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Why can't you have kids and not have marriage?

That's what I keep wondering. You get married, you have kids, you get divorced. Now you have kids but no marriage. If you love your children you owe them a moral duty to be in their life. You owe them a legal duty regardless of the circumstance (under the present law).

So who potentially loses out....the woman. You owe her no legal duty if you were never married. That means no money that's just for her (ignoring stealth alimony here). That's why the pressure to get married. So it's not all about the children. It's all about the woman. As usual.

I had this debate on here. I took the stance of 'if you seriously want kids, marriage is the ticket.' Because:

1. Good luck getting custody.
2. Presumably, you'll still need to work to make a living. So you'd have to outsource parenting to a litany of half-literate daycare workers. A real recipe for your kid's success.
3. Kids do better when raised by two parents than by a single parent (though I haven't seen much research documenting how children raised by single fathers compare to those raised by single mothers - fathers may be better, but I doubt they trump child outcomes with two parents.)

[Menace]

I think what Samseau (and I) were getting at is that you do raise the child in a two-parent home so that they have a conventional family life, except you don't marry the mother. Custody is stacked against men anyway, so I don't see how not being married when the child was born has much effect on that.

[Way Cool Jr]

I think he said some great red pill info, but he sounds so bitter.
Women can be wonderful creatures, as well as nightmares also, I spent such good moments with them, also non considering sex and romance, I can't agree with all the things Mark Minter says.
Let's not forget this, because enjoying women it's part of a player and should be part of everyone's life.

[panache]

I read a lot of posts on here that say men have a lot to lose from marriage, and that it is much better to stay single. However, I would like to point out, that a lot of the reasons I have read are strictly geared towards North American women.

I spent a lot of Dubai, UAE. As you might know, Dubai has a huge foreign population. The trend you see with most Asian (Oriental/Middle Eastern/South Asian) families over there is that the women are submissive to the men. Even the working women with good careers as bankers, business owners, management consultants etc. go home every night and cook and clean for their husbands, and take care of their children. There is no culture of sleeping around within the people from this background, which makes it 'harder' to get laid (this is often circumvented by going to the bars and club where you can meet more modern-minded girls), but a lot of these women in their early-20s are smart and beautiful if somewhat less sexually experienced. Through traveling around Asia, I am compelled to believe that this culture of women willing to serve their husbands exists in most Asian countries.

This trend, I have found, even extends to women who are new to North America. My current girlfriend is Chinese and has spent most of her childhood in China before coming to Canada. We were living together for a while, and it was very comfortable. She would cook for me, get my clothes ready in the morning, have a cheery face when I got back in the evening etc., all while being a smart student doing really well in university. We are in a semi-open relationship where I am allowed to fuck other girls when I travel, but she doesn't fuck other guys. Being in this situation, I find it hard to believe that marriage in general is bad for men, and I think it is more likely that marriage is bad when culture allows women to 'slut it up' and makes them believe that they don't need men.

This culture of feminism and women being obnoxious about not needing men as they grow older is limited to a lot of the modern developed countries, but I think the people on this site should be aware that this isn't the case in every country.

TL;DR - Marriage or LTR with traditional valued women from Oriental, Middle Eastern or South Asian backgrounds shouldn't be categorized with marriage with North American or European women.

[j r]

(10-08-2012 03:45 PM)Menace Wrote:  

I think what Samseau (and I) were getting at is that you do raise the child in a two-parent home so that they have a conventional family life, except you don't marry the mother. Custody is stacked against men anyway, so I don't see how not being married when the child was born has much effect on that.

This is a possibility. Finding a woman who is willing to settle down without getting an expensive rock and a more expensive wedding is a good way to screen. Although, at the end of the day, cohabitation isn't that different from cohabitation. At a certain point, you'll be considered in a common law marriage.

If you're going to get married, the key is to decide in advance how much you're willing to lose and know when to cut your losses. Don't be sentimental about it. Outline the relationship like a business partnership and let the romantic relationship run free within those boundaries.

[Basil Ransom]

(10-08-2012 03:45 PM)Menace Wrote:  

I think what Samseau (and I) were getting at is that you do raise the child in a two-parent home so that they have a conventional family life, except you don't marry the mother. Custody is stacked against men anyway, so I don't see how not being married when the child was born has much effect on that.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying all the trappings of marriage but without getting legally married. Yeah, I'd say that's reasonable. The risk of separation might be higher, because it's easier to get out of. I do recall Samseau proposing that he'd be in an open relationship with the mother of his children. That seems more improbable.

There was a prominent 'palimony' case in California where a Jewish arms dealer had a religious but not civil marriage. He booted her later, and she eventually took him to court, and lost, though she later won a lawsuit against him for damages from alleged domestic abuse. Don't think they had any kids though.

[Samseau]

(10-08-2012 04:03 PM)j r Wrote:  

(10-08-2012 03:45 PM)Menace Wrote:  

I think what Samseau (and I) were getting at is that you do raise the child in a two-parent home so that they have a conventional family life, except you don't marry the mother. Custody is stacked against men anyway, so I don't see how not being married when the child was born has much effect on that.

This is a possibility. Finding a woman who is willing to settle down without getting an expensive rock and a more expensive wedding is a good way to screen. Although, at the end of the day, cohabitation isn't that different from cohabitation. At a certain point, you'll be considered in a common law marriage.

Rent out a shithole in another state and list it as your legal residence. Live with your main girl and kids in a beautiful house somewhere else. Have mail forwarded from your shithole apartment to a P.O. Box near the house where you're raising your kids.

I don't think it's impossible to get around common law marriage laws.

[Merenguero]

(10-08-2012 05:49 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(10-08-2012 04:03 PM)j r Wrote:  

(10-08-2012 03:45 PM)Menace Wrote:  

I think what Samseau (and I) were getting at is that you do raise the child in a two-parent home so that they have a conventional family life, except you don't marry the mother. Custody is stacked against men anyway, so I don't see how not being married when the child was born has much effect on that.

This is a possibility. Finding a woman who is willing to settle down without getting an expensive rock and a more expensive wedding is a good way to screen. Although, at the end of the day, cohabitation isn't that different from cohabitation. At a certain point, you'll be considered in a common law marriage.

Rent out a shithole in another state and list it as your legal residence. Live with your main girl and kids in a beautiful house somewhere else. Have mail forwarded from your shithole apartment to a P.O. Box near the house where you're raising your kids.

[/b]I don't think it's impossible to get around common law marriage laws.[b]

Make sure you live in a state which does not recognize common law marriage. I believe only thirteen states plus the District of Columbia recognize common law marriage. Further, don't hold yourself out as being husband and wife. You can specifically state that you are not married.