I'm having a huge problem finding women to approach and I'm just about ready to give up on night game. I'm wondering if the problem is with my city, or is something I'd face in many cities in the US these days. I'd also like to hear from long-time players to understand if what I'm seeing out there is the way it's always been, or something true only in the last few years.
A bit of background: I'm in my 40's and fortunate that I objectively look early 30's in a night venue. I'm trim and not muscular at all (I lift heavy three times per week but it's very slow progress--I will never be bulky). I'm average height. I've been cold-approaching for over two years. When I started out I had a bad case of approach anxiety, and it took me several months to reduce it to a reasonable level. I started off by approaching women who quite honestly weren't that attractive, though still bang-able from my point of view at the time, which helped in finding sets to approach, but even then, it wasn't that easy to find them in my preferred venue type. As soon as I wanted to focus on moderately attractive women or better, I stalled out for lack of targets (i.e. in my preferred venue type). Because of that, I quit night game for a while, then almost a year later resumed it with a wing who made it fun even if nothing was going on. But we have the same problem as before, and several months later it's getting old for both of us.
There's one particular class of woman that is common in nightlife that I'm not targeting, and before anyone jumps to tell me that I should be targeting them, let me explain how I categorize venues, and what my issues are with them:
1) In dance clubs sometimes I can hook drunk, shorter girls, but I'm not into dancing at all, and I have trouble hearing (and conversing) in those places--definitely more trouble than most people do. This has nothing to do with age or hearing damage, I've just always had trouble understanding speech in noisy environments. I've never pulled from a dance club, but from my experiences with make-outs I can see that I have some potential to do it. Still, I'm certain that I'm not what most club girls are looking for (more about this later). Between that and the hearing issue, dance clubs are not productive for me. It would probably take me three months of going out to dance clubs exclusively for one notch, if I wanted it. As a side note, I've noticed that clubs that used to have couches off to the side, in slightly quieter areas, have turned them into VIP couches with service, so there is no place to escape the ear-splitting music at full volume. That kills it for me.
2) Chill (i.e. with music at low volume) hotel lounges are empty at seemingly all times! I know it sounds crazy, but I've checked out many upscale hotel lounges at many different times during the evening, and I'm certain about this. Loud hotel bars are another matter, but I'm lumping them into one of the categories below.
3) There are lots of dive bars in this city that have very few women, and almost no good-looking women, ever (once again, I've done extensive reconnaissance).
4) There are loud, raucous dive bars such as the ones on Boylston Street, but the gender ratios are terrible--so bad that at any given moment I may not see a single set within my line of sight that I'm interested in, and sometimes not even a female head, depending on what direction I'm looking in. I have the same hearing problem in these venues that I have in dance clubs. They're not for me.
5) There are loud, raucous though cleaner-looking bars, such as those along the waterfront, full of dance-club type women (i.e. tight dresses and jacked up in heels) which I would love to game efficiently if I could, but I don't target them. This is the only type of attractive woman out in abundance in the city, so I need to explain why I don't: I'm really not what they are looking for. Some people will take issue with this, but I think height is a predominant reason for it, with muscle mass coming in second. At these venues, women of a normal height are all wearing 5" heels, bringing them to my level, and I'm often times surrounded by men four to six inches taller than me, and much more built. I think what is happening in venues--where women are wearing the highest heels possible--is that it's become a red queen's race: men who aren't taller or larger than average have stopped going, skewing the distribution of men in the venue. Women are comparing me not to their own height while wearing socks, as they should, but rather while wearing stilts, as well as to the very tall men surrounding me. I'm looking puny by comparison.
Look, I realize that there are normal-heighted or even shorter players getting club women, but I bet they're either great dancers (like Samseau, who really cracked dance club game) or running super-aggro RSD style game, which isn't me. There are probably also those who have exceptional wit and conversational ability that works with these kinds of women, but after all they're exceptional!
6) By this point you can understand why my preferred targets are attractive, non-dance club type women. Considering that the non-party venues don't have them on Friday and Saturday nights, I started searched long and hard for after-work watering holes in Boston. The result: everything is completely empty or half-filled with men. I've done reconnaissance missions at different times on different days of the week, and the fly-bys I did this Friday were instructive: right after work, there were perhaps less than a dozen sets in all bars on Boylston and Newburry Streets (i.e. a huge hunk of the Back Bay) COMBINED, and maybe only two sets I actually wanted to approach. Even the bar at the base of the 52-story Prudential tower was nearly empty at 5:30, as if nobody worked there! The women working in paper-pushing jobs are out of work by that time, I'm certain. (I've seen that bar slightly later and while it's full of suits there are very few women). If I'd settled into any of the Back Bay bars I might have had one set to open during the whole after-work period, and it would have worked out to well under one set per hour.
I've seen with my own eyes, in a variety of circumstances, that not too many women of ANY type are out in non-party venues at any time, and of the few that are, they're typically not attractive. Is this the way it's always been? Or is this something new? Is it like this in NYC too?
I'm guessing this something that started in the last few years but before I started gaming, and I have some ideas about what is going on, but first I'm curious to see what people think.
A bit of background: I'm in my 40's and fortunate that I objectively look early 30's in a night venue. I'm trim and not muscular at all (I lift heavy three times per week but it's very slow progress--I will never be bulky). I'm average height. I've been cold-approaching for over two years. When I started out I had a bad case of approach anxiety, and it took me several months to reduce it to a reasonable level. I started off by approaching women who quite honestly weren't that attractive, though still bang-able from my point of view at the time, which helped in finding sets to approach, but even then, it wasn't that easy to find them in my preferred venue type. As soon as I wanted to focus on moderately attractive women or better, I stalled out for lack of targets (i.e. in my preferred venue type). Because of that, I quit night game for a while, then almost a year later resumed it with a wing who made it fun even if nothing was going on. But we have the same problem as before, and several months later it's getting old for both of us.
There's one particular class of woman that is common in nightlife that I'm not targeting, and before anyone jumps to tell me that I should be targeting them, let me explain how I categorize venues, and what my issues are with them:
1) In dance clubs sometimes I can hook drunk, shorter girls, but I'm not into dancing at all, and I have trouble hearing (and conversing) in those places--definitely more trouble than most people do. This has nothing to do with age or hearing damage, I've just always had trouble understanding speech in noisy environments. I've never pulled from a dance club, but from my experiences with make-outs I can see that I have some potential to do it. Still, I'm certain that I'm not what most club girls are looking for (more about this later). Between that and the hearing issue, dance clubs are not productive for me. It would probably take me three months of going out to dance clubs exclusively for one notch, if I wanted it. As a side note, I've noticed that clubs that used to have couches off to the side, in slightly quieter areas, have turned them into VIP couches with service, so there is no place to escape the ear-splitting music at full volume. That kills it for me.
2) Chill (i.e. with music at low volume) hotel lounges are empty at seemingly all times! I know it sounds crazy, but I've checked out many upscale hotel lounges at many different times during the evening, and I'm certain about this. Loud hotel bars are another matter, but I'm lumping them into one of the categories below.
3) There are lots of dive bars in this city that have very few women, and almost no good-looking women, ever (once again, I've done extensive reconnaissance).
4) There are loud, raucous dive bars such as the ones on Boylston Street, but the gender ratios are terrible--so bad that at any given moment I may not see a single set within my line of sight that I'm interested in, and sometimes not even a female head, depending on what direction I'm looking in. I have the same hearing problem in these venues that I have in dance clubs. They're not for me.
5) There are loud, raucous though cleaner-looking bars, such as those along the waterfront, full of dance-club type women (i.e. tight dresses and jacked up in heels) which I would love to game efficiently if I could, but I don't target them. This is the only type of attractive woman out in abundance in the city, so I need to explain why I don't: I'm really not what they are looking for. Some people will take issue with this, but I think height is a predominant reason for it, with muscle mass coming in second. At these venues, women of a normal height are all wearing 5" heels, bringing them to my level, and I'm often times surrounded by men four to six inches taller than me, and much more built. I think what is happening in venues--where women are wearing the highest heels possible--is that it's become a red queen's race: men who aren't taller or larger than average have stopped going, skewing the distribution of men in the venue. Women are comparing me not to their own height while wearing socks, as they should, but rather while wearing stilts, as well as to the very tall men surrounding me. I'm looking puny by comparison.
Look, I realize that there are normal-heighted or even shorter players getting club women, but I bet they're either great dancers (like Samseau, who really cracked dance club game) or running super-aggro RSD style game, which isn't me. There are probably also those who have exceptional wit and conversational ability that works with these kinds of women, but after all they're exceptional!
6) By this point you can understand why my preferred targets are attractive, non-dance club type women. Considering that the non-party venues don't have them on Friday and Saturday nights, I started searched long and hard for after-work watering holes in Boston. The result: everything is completely empty or half-filled with men. I've done reconnaissance missions at different times on different days of the week, and the fly-bys I did this Friday were instructive: right after work, there were perhaps less than a dozen sets in all bars on Boylston and Newburry Streets (i.e. a huge hunk of the Back Bay) COMBINED, and maybe only two sets I actually wanted to approach. Even the bar at the base of the 52-story Prudential tower was nearly empty at 5:30, as if nobody worked there! The women working in paper-pushing jobs are out of work by that time, I'm certain. (I've seen that bar slightly later and while it's full of suits there are very few women). If I'd settled into any of the Back Bay bars I might have had one set to open during the whole after-work period, and it would have worked out to well under one set per hour.
I've seen with my own eyes, in a variety of circumstances, that not too many women of ANY type are out in non-party venues at any time, and of the few that are, they're typically not attractive. Is this the way it's always been? Or is this something new? Is it like this in NYC too?
I'm guessing this something that started in the last few years but before I started gaming, and I have some ideas about what is going on, but first I'm curious to see what people think.
