[Gmac]

(09-12-2012 01:42 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(09-12-2012 01:19 PM)tomtud Wrote:  

Religions have cult like beliefs. Some stronger than others. not all are equal. The bible and Torah have violent passages, but you never see a Christian killing his neighbor if he mows his lawn on a Sunday.

A recent phenomenon. Christians have become quite a bit more secular in the modern age, and much tamer.
Go back a hundred years and more unreasonably violent actions like this were much more common. The cultural revolution of the 60's/70's and the wave of secularism that followed and swept the western world put an end to that.
Were it not for that, christians would have no higher ground to stand on. They have historically had no problem going to war and doing terrible things to people who do not deserve it in the name of their god.

Quote:

For America to survive, I think it needs war and imperialistic policies.

We can't afford them.

Believe it or not, war is profitable.

[EisenBarde]

It's happening in Tunis now, too. This stuff is spreading pretty damn fast and Obama is absolutely handcuffed with the State department unable to stop it.

[tenderman100]

(09-14-2012 04:54 PM)Deif Wrote:  

The United States is an "evil empire" on any moral metric. The reason why it's so easy to incite violence against America in the region is because, whether you want to admit it or not, the people doing so have justice on their side.

You would have thought Americans would realize it by now: dudes in Iraq were throwing themselves by the thousand into the maw of the American war machine to put an end to the occupation there. If men believe they are fighting for a just and moral cause, they will be far more willing to sacrifice life and limb. This is the principle reason why occupying and colonial powers never win in the end. The willpower of the occupied eventually overcomes the technological advantages of the imperial power.

In the case of Libya, you have the Islamists who attacked the consulate there because they were convinced that a show of force against the nation's most hated adversary would bolster the legitimacy of their arms and allow them to extend guardianship over the populace. That guardianship will be the premise for the establishment of an Islamic state there, and the men with the guns will reap all the benefits of control of that state.

I am sorry but here this..you are a fucking idiot. The idea that that the United States is some evil emprire is pure bullshit. If you are an citizen of the US do us a favor -- get the fuck out of this country and don't come back. If you are not, don't come here. EVER.

You have drunk the liberal kook-aid so thoroughly that your are drowning in it, and you don't even know it.

What defines an empire? The acquisition of territory and its natural resources, and the subjugation of its peoples.

Think about Egypt for a second, if you can think at all. It has nothing we need. Absolutely nothing. It doesn't make anything, it has no oil. It only has the fucking pyramids.

Now think about Libya. Yes it has oil...but guess what? It can control its own oil. We don't own it, ship it, process it, refine it. It belongs to Libya. Moreover it sells most of its oil to Europe (which is why Europe was so hot to trot to make sure we were in on the Libyan freedom movement. Europe needs its oil).

The people who are attacking our embassies, killing our diplomatic representatives, burning our flag, and throwing molotov cocktails are the fucking scum of the earth. They should be obliterated. Smashed. Destroyed. Quashed. And I could give two shits whether you or anyone like you is offended. Go to hell.

[el mechanico]

El Mech/Nugent 2016
[attachment=7770]

[Screwston]

[void]

i guess there will always be radicals. its too easy to use religios views as a tool for power on uneducated people.

[Roosh]

Quote:

I am sorry but here this..you are a fucking idiot.

1 day ban for that. Attacks like that aren't acceptable here.

[void]

how the onion handles the topic:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-...ne:default

[naughtynomad]

The level of bigotry from some of the commenters in this thread is alarming. I sympathise with the loss of life. Chris Stevens championed democracy in Libya and to have the very people he supported turn against them is very sad indeed.

This has nothing to do with liberalism, the Republicans or the Democratics. The US, like all states, acts as a realist power regardless of whose in charge. It is not an 'evil empire' nor it is a normative one. It simply acts in it's own interests.

Anti-Americanism is rife in the region because of US support for Israel, the 'War on Terror', and most importantly: vast sums of US petrodollars propping up hardcore Islamic monarchs who in turn fund intolerant Salafist anti-Western groups in the region. The Wahhabi Saudis, one of the US's closest allies, are one of the worst offenders. These groups are also responsible for the radicalisation of political Islam. So unless you're willing to pay more at the gas station, don't expect Middle Easterners to stop burning American flags.

Sadly, the US is screwed either way. Authoritarian regimes are often better than democracies who vote for radicals. During the Arab Spring in Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya, Islamic parties cleaned up in elections. Now look at what's happening.

Ultimately, religion is to blame. We need a 'War on God.' Education is the only weapon for that. And an education from old books like the Quran and the Bible is the worst type you can get.

You guys think this is bad, can you imagine what will happen if the US back Israel when they attack the Islamic Republic of Iran?

[The Fantasist]

(09-14-2012 09:42 PM)tenderman100 Wrote:  

The people who are attacking our embassies, killing our diplomatic representatives, burning our flag, and throwing molotov cocktails are the fucking scum of the earth. They should be obliterated. Smashed. Destroyed. Quashed. And I could give two shits whether you or anyone like you is offended. Go to hell.

Yes but what you don't seem to understand is that in their eyes YOU are the scum of the earth. You say burning a flag makes them scum,they say bombing innocent wedding parties in Afghanistan and then denying it is scumish. You say throwing Molotov cocktails makes you scum,they say making prisoners in a gaol perform gay sex acts on each other and filming it is the action of scum. You say attacking an embassy is the action of a scumbag,they say invading Iraq on a false pretext is scumbagish. And just like you are calling for them to be obliterated,they too are calling for you to be. Who is right,who is wrong? Welcome to the war on terror baby!

[speakeasy]

(09-15-2012 08:42 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(09-14-2012 09:42 PM)tenderman100 Wrote:  

The people who are attacking our embassies, killing our diplomatic representatives, burning our flag, and throwing molotov cocktails are the fucking scum of the earth. They should be obliterated. Smashed. Destroyed. Quashed. And I could give two shits whether you or anyone like you is offended. Go to hell.

Yes but what you don't seem to understand is that in their eyes YOU are the scum of the earth. You say burning a flag makes them scum,they say bombing innocent wedding parties in Afghanistan and then denying it is scumish. You say throwing Molotov cocktails makes you scum,they say making prisoners in a gaol perform gay sex acts on each other and filming it is the action of scum. You say attacking an embassy is the action of a scumbag,they say invading Iraq on a false pretext is scumbagish. And just like you are calling for them to be obliterated,they too are calling for you to be. Who is right,who is wrong? Welcome to the war on terror baby!

While I understand that many things are relative to an extent, let's not get carried away with relativism, unless you believe the Marines are no different from Al Queda. We don't set out to bomb wedding parties. If we do end up accidentally killing civilians it's because the people we fight embed themselves amongst the civilian position for cover. Our military would be more than happy to confront them out on the battlefield far away from any civilian targets. And we know who would win that fight. So that's why terrorists use civilians as cover. That doesn't mean we are deliberately targeting civilians. On the other hand, the terrorists DO deliberately target civilians. If you can't see that distinction, then I don't know what to tell you. When our military got busted for misconduct at Abu Graib, we punished them for doing it. Does their side punish their own for misconduct against the enemy? Do you hear them apologizing or punishing their own for sawing Daniel Pearl's head off on TV? If you think both sides are moral equivalents, just imagine what the world and your freedoms would look like if they were the superpower with all the nukes. The whole damn world would be converted to Islam by the sword.

(09-15-2012 08:39 AM)naughtynomad Wrote:  

This has nothing to do with liberalism, the Republicans or the Democratics. The US, like all states, acts as a realist power regardless of whose in charge. It is not an 'evil empire' nor it is a normative one. It simply acts in it's own interests.

Agreed. I think for an "empire" America is relatively benign one compared to most empires throughout history. I would hate to think what would have happened if it were Iran or Egypt as the most powerful nation on earth.

Quote:

Sadly, the US is screwed either way. Authoritarian regimes are often better than democracies who vote for radicals. During the Arab Spring in Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya, Islamic parties cleaned up in elections. Now look at what's happening.

Yes, that's why the left is annoying with all their "aha! See America is hypocritical!" talk. From a realist perspective, democracy is only as good as the people it springs from. Democracy works best with an enlightened, educated and rational constituency. Not a bunch of radical, violent, religious nuts that think Jews use Palestinian blood for Matzoh ball soup.

Quote:

Ultimately, religion is to blame. We need a 'War on God.' Education is the only weapon for that. And an education from old books like the Quran and the Bible is the worst type you can get.

Well, not a war on god per se, as many people are believers without being fanatical about it. What we need is rationality and enlightenment in that region. The Muslim world actually used to be freer place 1000 years ago when they were at the forefront of science and discovery. This type of religious radicalism is a relatively recent phenomenon.

[The Fantasist]

(09-15-2012 12:49 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 08:42 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(09-14-2012 09:42 PM)tenderman100 Wrote:  

The people who are attacking our embassies, killing our diplomatic representatives, burning our flag, and throwing molotov cocktails are the fucking scum of the earth. They should be obliterated. Smashed. Destroyed. Quashed. And I could give two shits whether you or anyone like you is offended. Go to hell.

Yes but what you don't seem to understand is that in their eyes YOU are the scum of the earth. You say burning a flag makes them scum,they say bombing innocent wedding parties in Afghanistan and then denying it is scumish. You say throwing Molotov cocktails makes you scum,they say making prisoners in a gaol perform gay sex acts on each other and filming it is the action of scum. You say attacking an embassy is the action of a scumbag,they say invading Iraq on a false pretext is scumbagish. And just like you are calling for them to be obliterated,they too are calling for you to be. Who is right,who is wrong? Welcome to the war on terror
baby!

While I understand that many things are relative to an extent, let's not get carried away with relativism, unless you believe the Marines are no different from Al Queda. We don't set out to bomb wedding parties. If we do end up accidentally killing civilians it's because the people we fight embed themselves amongst the civilian position for cover. Our military would be more than happy to confront them out on the battlefield far away from any civilian targets. And we know who would win that fight. So that's why terrorists use civilians as cover. That doesn't mean we
are deliberately targeting civilians. On the other hand, the terrorists DO deliberately target civilians. If you can't see that distinction, then I don't know what to tell you. When our military got busted for misconduct at Abu Graib, we punished them for doing it. Does their side punish their own for misconduct against the enemy? Do you hear them apologizing or punishing their own for sawing Daniel Pearl's head off on TV? If you think both sides are moral equivalents, just imagine what the world and your freedoms would look like if they were the superpower
with all the nukes. The whole damn world would be converted to Islam by the sword.

Thanks for the reply Speakeasy but I think you have misunderstood where I personally stand on the issue ( my fault as I did not state it clearly ). I stand well and truly on the side of the Western powers in the war on terror. I don't think the marines are as bad as the fundamental maniacs we are fighting in any way what so ever. I wholeheartedly agreed with the Afghan invasion and I support it still. Radical Islam is a vile archaic mindset that has no place in the modern world and should be erased. 9/11,Daniel Pearl,African embassy bombings,the Bali bombings etc. etc. They are a reminder of why our war is a just one.

However my point is that we are hardly whiter then white are we both in the war on terror and away from it and if we think about our actions from their viewpoint we can see how we have helped radicalise the people we are trying to pacify. Let's look at the recent embassy attack in Benghazi. The residents there lived under a tyrant for decades. Their brothers were killed by the secret police and their mothers raped by them. And we the West ( the bringers of democracy to the barbaric world ) supported the man responsible for it,Gaddafi. We bought his oil ( Europe did anyway ) and despite his crimes and international terrorist atrocities we brought him in from the cold,exchanged kisses in his tent. And then we open an embassy there in Benghazi and expect what,it all to be forgotten? The people to welcome us as friends?! When the chance came to strike back they did. When you look at it from their side ( 'their' meaning the average Muslim dude on the street ) you can see why these things come about. Does that mean I support them? Hell
no,however I'm not naive enough to see the war purely from 'our' side and think that we are purer then the driven snow.

[LoveBug]

Didn't these uprisings start on or around September 11? Did this supposed movie dissing Islam come out on September 11? Otherwise I would think that is a cover for hardcore Islamists just wanting to fukk sh1t up on September 11.

Either way, so all some idiot in the West has to do in the future is make a like video and he will get this same reaction?

[Deif]

(09-15-2012 06:48 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

I am sorry but here this..you are a fucking idiot.

1 day ban for that. Attacks like that aren't acceptable here.

I think this says enough. There was no argument in his post, just ad hominem.

[AFspecOps]

The talking heads on Aljazeerah have been berating the US government for showing this movie on US TV. But the movie wasn't even shown here. It was shown on Egyptian TV.

And Bill Maher may need to go into hiding:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIpdC0o3mdM

[Brian]

(09-15-2012 04:08 PM)LoveBug Wrote:  

Didn't these uprisings start on or around September 11? Did this supposed movie dissing Islam come out on September 11? Otherwise I would think that is a cover for hardcore Islamists just wanting to fukk sh1t up on September 11.

Either way, so all some idiot in the West has to do in the future is make a like video and he will get this same reaction?

the movie was out for a while. this wasnt a spur of the moment uprising, it was a planned attack on US embassies, which should be considered an act of war. the youtube video is just an excuse for them to act this way because our idiotic liberal media will believe it. what bothers me the worst is how pussified the state department has become - most US embassies are stocked with Marines carrying M16's who are trained to deal with shit like this. those Marines would love nothing more then to turn the place into a shooting range and kill each and every one who climbs tries to rush the embassy and the fact that they were ordered to stand down while people were killed is ridiculous

[kosko]

(09-15-2012 08:24 PM)Brian Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 04:08 PM)LoveBug Wrote:  

Didn't these uprisings start on or around September 11? Did this supposed movie dissing Islam come out on September 11? Otherwise I would think that is a cover for hardcore Islamists just wanting to fukk sh1t up on September 11.

Either way, so all some idiot in the West has to do in the future is make a like video and he will get this same reaction?

the movie was out for a while. this wasnt a spur of the moment uprising, it was a planned attack on US embassies, which should be considered an act of war. the youtube video is just an excuse for them to act this way because our idiotic liberal media will believe it. what bothers me the worst is how pussified the state department has become - most US embassies are stocked with Marines carrying M16's who are trained to deal with shit like this. those Marines would love nothing more then to turn the place into a shooting range and kill each and every one who climbs tries to rush the embassy and the fact that they were ordered to stand down while people were killed is ridiculous

You have to crack some eggs to make a omelette.

The USA is experiencing blowback but thier broader goals of a fractured, far right, Balkanized, Middle East are slowly and painfully coming true. American wants a general war in the region with hopes Islamic factions will eventually stir the pot in the FSU and Russia, while also crack China Western plains to divert resources from dealing with the actual tinderboxes of the Islands and Korea.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBR...5?irpc=932

This has always been the goal. It's just the goal has taking longer then usual. We were supposed to see this hostility as far back as 2008.

The USA got in beef with terrorist jihadis knowing then would double cross then eventually and provide pre- text for a larger theater of war down the road. This is largely why Israel has largely remained moot on the Arab Spring on the further radicalization of neighboring Arab states. They are hot under the collar but Israel has still largely been fixated in the non issue of Iran. Try and trace back any hostility from them on radical Islam elements gaining power In The region. It's hard to find.

Because as I said its all in the grabs chess game of global strategy. The USA and Israel are betting their chips on a full scale regional war in which they believe they can either win or directly control the eve result. Nobody n OWS if that will be the case. But what I do know is that this blowback was 100% intended and known from the actions the USA took months/years prior.

[kosko]

...

[ElJefe]

(09-16-2012 09:02 AM)kosko Wrote:  

You have to crack some eggs to make a omelette.

The USA is experiencing blowback but thier broader goals of a fractured, far right, Balkanized, Middle East are slowly and painfully coming true. American wants a general war in the region with hopes Islamic factions will eventually stir the pot in the FSU and Russia, while also crack China Western plains to divert resources from dealing with the actual tinderboxes of the Islands and Korea.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBR...5?irpc=932

This has always been the goal. It's just the goal has taking longer then usual. We were supposed to see this hostility as far back as 2008.

The USA got in beef with terrorist jihadis knowing then would double cross then eventually and provide pre- text for a larger theater of war down the road. This is largely why Israel has largely remained moot on the Arab Spring on the further radicalization of neighboring Arab states. They are hot under the collar but Israel has still largely been fixated in the non issue of Iran. Try and trace back any hostility from them on radical Islam elements gaining power In The region. It's hard to find.

Because as I said its all in the grabs chess game of global strategy. The USA and Israel are betting their chips on a full scale regional war in which they believe they can either win or directly control the eve result. Nobody n OWS if that will be the case. But what I do know is that this blowback was 100% intended and known from the actions the USA took months/years prior.