[Vicious]

All over the news right now.

I'm thinking two things about this.

1. Why would believers in Islam almost randomly on the day of 9/11 get pissed over insignificant movie slandering Islam? I'm the last person in the world to buy into conspiracy theories but this sparked outraged feels like it was planned or organized in some way.

2. Killing an ambassador is not far removed from a declaration of war. You are not only killing a foreign citizen but one chosen to specifically represent your country. Libya has never been a close friend of the US but with the end of its civil war its relations with the outside world was given a reboot. This incident will undoubtedly shape USpolicy in the area for years and even decades to come.

[RandalGraves]

Because as long as Islam exists somewhere in the world, there can be no free speech regarding Islam anywhere else in the world.

[painter]

How much money did the US waste toppling Quadaffi? I knew it was a mistake going in there. On 9/11 no less, what a disgrace.

Edit: They got mad over a movie clip on Youtube. Wow.

[kosko]

Forget how it is framed in the media, Islam has nothing to do with this. Libya is barley a functioning state the TNC/NTC has little control outside of Bengahzi and us still full off rag tags and extremists.


Articles point to a fuking movie and Gadaffi loyalists to blame. All false. If it was the movie surly other hotbeds for Islam would be upset also. Next up Bengahzi is a stronghold where every Gadaffi loyalist, Black, and Christian was ran out of town or killed. The group that looks to be responsible for this is a bunch of rag tag mercs from a Yemeni group called Ansar al-Sharia. There is all people unsure of when this attack happened.


Libya is 8hrs ahead, the Rocket attack on the Brick and Mortar building happened Tuesday night aka Tuesday daytime in America and would of made the news feeds very quickly. This second attack on a Car carrying the Ambassador happened Wed morning aka Tuesday night outside of USA news streams and hence the blowup of the coverage this morning. The specifics are still shady but a movie is hard to fuking blame. Maybe Americans will buy that excuse but I sure won't.


This is simply blowback for the USA again mudding their hands in places they shouldn't off. The USA had no business going into Libya and now a year and some later they are now seeing the tinders they left turn into flames.


The irony in all this is that this man was probably killed with USA ROCKETS AND WEAPONS.

[Smitty]

(09-12-2012 08:36 AM)kosko Wrote:  

Articles point to a fuking movie and Gadaffi loyalists to blame. All false. If it was the movie surly other hotbeds for Islam would be upset also.

There were riots over the movie in Egypt too.

[Smitty]

(09-12-2012 08:30 AM)painter Wrote:  

How much money did the US waste toppling Quadaffi? I knew it was a mistake going in there. On 9/11 no less, what a disgrace.

I don't think the U.S. should have been involved with toppling Libya, but in fairness it was Britain and France who pushed for action and led the way. Both countries get more oil from Libya than the U.S. and instability in the country was not in their best interest. The U.S. just sat off the coast and fired missiles.

[el mechanico]

Fuck it! We're too far in this shit now so I would blow up both their capital cities to teach them a lesson. If I were president I would drop leaflets on all those countries telling them if they fuck with us or our shit where just going to blow you up so stop fucking around. As far as Iraq goes they needed a dude like Saddam to keep those people in line. He said the same shit..Fuck with me you die. That's the only way in those countries

[mistermister]

no good deed goes unpunished.

[Sherman]

America spent trillions of taxpayers’ dollars to topple Saddam and Gaddafi, who were both secular leaders capable of crushing radical Islam. Both George Washington and Ron Paul were correct about not getting involved in foreign entanglement. But common sense has clearly been rejected in America so the consequences of bad foreign policy are just beginning.

[ElJefe]

International etiquette and protocol is a completely foreign concept to these barbarians.

1. Gunboat diplomacy time. Refit the USS Wisconsin and send her into Benghazi harbor and have her 14-inch guns pave a path straight through the middle of the city. Rename the street Stevens Blvd.

   

2. Announce Benghazi a US concession for 99 years and all of Libyas oil wealth forfeit. They can earn their money by the old-fashioned way. If they disagree, start nuking.

3. Just for good measure, send a few B2 stealth-bombers into Egypt to bust a gaping hole in the Aswan Dam and flood the nile, Bible-style.

These three simple moves will settle matters in North Africa for the next century. We can let Iran know they're next.

What I really don't get is why we waste enormous amounts of time and money on trying to fight a conventional war when the counter-move from Islamists is a) insurgency b) terrorist attacks against our home populations. It's undignified. We have over 5,000 nuclear warheads, we should let the Islamists know that each time they shoot up a bus full of children, kill an ambassador and piss us off, we are going to nuke a muslim holy city. Starting with Medina, ending with Mecca, until they stop.

[rationalize_this]

(09-12-2012 09:09 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Fuck it! We're too far in this shit now so I would blow up both their capital cities to teach them a lesson. If I were president I would drop leaflets on all those countries telling them if they fuck with us or our shit where just going to blow you up so stop fucking around. As far as Iraq goes they needed a dude like Saddam to keep those people in line. He said the same shit..Fuck with me you die. That's the only way in those countries

Watch Obama apologize again. He doesn't want to risk disenfranchising his voting base this close to the election. He's in full campaign mode right now. Foreign Policy is the last thing on his mind, except getting re-elected and keeping his promise with Russia's prime minister.

AND Obama wants to decrease our weapons/missiles to number below Russia, China, France, Germany, UK? Great idea, the Middle East is fine.

[Samseau]

I say we just pull out of the middle east and let the whole place go to hell. I know Iran and Saudi Arabia hate each other, everyone hates Israel, Turkey hates Iraq, pretty much everyone hates each other there.

There's just so much bad blood that there's really no sense in trying to govern it. The chips are going to fall sooner or later, might as well let it happen sooner.

[rationalize_this]

(09-12-2012 10:14 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

I say we just pull out of the middle east and let the whole place go to hell. I know Iran and Saudi Arabia hate each other, everyone hates Israel, Turkey hates Iraq, pretty much everyone hates each other there.

There's just so much bad blood that there's really no sense in trying to govern it. The chips are going to fall sooner or later, might as well let it happen sooner.

I would say this is a good idea, but I think having our troops over there and being active in the region has effectively concentrated most of the terrorist efforts on our occupance there, and not on our home soil. It has also helped our intelligence efforts further protecting us. While I agree with you and I wish we could pull out completely, leaving Israel out to dry, an ally we've had forever, while letting the place go to hell would be disastrous for oil prices/ our economy.

[tomtud]

These diplomats got killed because of a man from/living in America produced a film criticizing islam. A few believers felt offended and sought to kill diplomats who had nothing with producing the movie. American interests get targeted once again.

Religions have cult like beliefs. Some stronger than others. not all are equal. The bible and Torah have violent passages, but you never see a Christian killing his neighbor if he mows his lawn on a Sunday. They don't take these passages literally to the extent of killing for the most part. ( excluded fanatic cults in Utah or Waco Texas forgot his name). Anyhow, Muslims not all are the same, but there is a large majority who believe in killing another if their religion is criticized.

There are idiots everywhere.

Next up will be war with Iran. However there won't be a backlash in other Muslim countries as much because many Sunni muslims don't consider the Shia Muslims of Iran proper Muslims. or they might make some noise in disguise just to fight for their wn cause. Much like looters when protests are happening. Take advantage of the situation.

For America to survive, I think it needs war and imperialistic policies.

[Excelsior]

(09-12-2012 10:12 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

International etiquette and protocol is a completely foreign concept to these barbarians.

1. Gunboat diplomacy time. Refit the USS Wisconsin and send her into Benghazi harbor and have her 14-inch guns pave a path straight through the middle of the city. Rename the street Stevens Blvd.

2. Announce Benghazi a US concession for 99 years and all of Libyas oil wealth forfeit. They can earn their money by the old-fashioned way. If they disagree, start nuking.

3. Just for good measure, send a few B2 stealth-bombers into Egypt to bust a gaping hole in the Aswan Dam and flood the nile, Bible-style.

These three simple moves will settle matters in North Africa for the next century. We can let Iran know they're next.

What I really don't get is why we waste enormous amounts of time and money on trying to fight a conventional war when the counter-move from Islamists is a) insurgency b) terrorist attacks against our home populations. It's undignified. We have over 5,000 nuclear warheads, we should let the Islamists know that each time they shoot up a bus full of children, kill an ambassador and piss us off, we are going to nuke a muslim holy city. Starting with Medina, ending with Mecca, until they stop.

Not sure if serious, but regardless, these actions would set an already difficult situation in that region back hundreds of years. Your allies in that region and throughout the world (who you need, remember) would turn on you pretty quickly, especially after you nuke their holy city. Also, good luck getting any oil after that.

America is unquestionably the single most powerful nation on the planet, but it cannot get all that it wants fighting by itself with no goodwill from anywhere else.

[Excelsior]

(09-12-2012 01:19 PM)tomtud Wrote:  

Religions have cult like beliefs. Some stronger than others. not all are equal. The bible and Torah have violent passages, but you never see a Christian killing his neighbor if he mows his lawn on a Sunday.

A recent phenomenon. Christians have become quite a bit more secular in the modern age, and much tamer.
Go back a hundred years and more unreasonably violent actions like this were much more common. The cultural revolution of the 60's/70's and the wave of secularism that followed and swept the western world put an end to that.
Were it not for that, christians would have no higher ground to stand on. They have historically had no problem going to war and doing terrible things to people who do not deserve it in the name of their god.

Quote:

For America to survive, I think it needs war and imperialistic policies.

We can't afford them.

[bacon]

libya had the highest gdp in africa. anyone who says obama is great with foriegn policy is an idiot. right now al queda is running the show in libya. so getting rid of ghandi was a huge mistake. also is egypt in better shape now? no the islamic extremists have taken over

[Arado]

(09-12-2012 01:42 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(09-12-2012 01:19 PM)tomtud Wrote:  

Religions have cult like beliefs. Some stronger than others. not all are equal. The bible and Torah have violent passages, but you never see a Christian killing his neighbor if he mows his lawn on a Sunday.

A recent phenomenon. Christians have become quite a bit more secular in the modern age, and much tamer.
Go back a hundred years and more unreasonably violent actions like this were much more common. The cultural revolution of the 60's/70's and the wave of secularism that followed and swept the western world put an end to that.
Were it not for that, christians would have no higher ground to stand on. They have historically had no problem going to war and doing terrible things to people who do not deserve it in the name of their god.

Quote:

For America to survive, I think it needs war and imperialistic policies.

We can't afford them.

We've heard this over and over again - people equating Christian brutality in the 1500's to Islam today. The simple fact is that in the modern era, Islam is overwhelmingly responsible for most interreligious violence today - there is nowhere where Muslims and non-Muslims peacefully coexist.

Get real people, this is the 21st century - it doesn't matter who was violent hundreds of years ago. Our societies had completely different values back then. This was before modern astronomy, physics, evolution, medicine, weather forecasting, etc...

Compare the biography of Jesus and Muhammed - pretty clear who was more violent.

At some point this political correctness and self-hate (which feminism takes advantage to push their agenda) in the West will end when we realize that we have a superior civilization and shouldn't apologize for it.

I wonder why devout Muslim countries are rarely mentioned in the travel forum...? Hmmm, could it possibly be because their societies operate like they're in the 8th century? Because using the right "game," on a girl there can get her honor killed, or worse, stoned to death?

[ManAbout]

(09-12-2012 10:14 AM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

Watch Obama apologize again. He doesn't want to risk disenfranchising his voting base this close to the election. He's in full campaign mode right now. Foreign Policy is the last thing on his mind, except getting re-elected and keeping his promise with Russia's prime minister.

AND Obama wants to decrease our weapons/missiles to number below Russia, China, France, Germany, UK? Great idea, the Middle East is fine.

Show me where OBAMA apologized.

This is Romney at his press conference today. Positively grinning over the death of 4 Americans.



Here he is as he walks away from the press conference, all but rubbing his hands in glee at his good fortune that Americans were killed.

http://twitter.com/CharlesDharapak/statu...to/1/large

[Smitty]

(09-12-2012 02:19 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

Show me where OBAMA apologized.

This is Romney at his press conference today. Positively grinning over the death of 4 Americans.

Here he is as he walks away from the press conference, all but rubbing his hands in glee at his good fortune that Americans were killed.

http://twitter.com/CharlesDharapak/statu...to/1/large

What a crock of shit. I don't care for Obama or Romney but I am certain neither was grinning over the death of four Americans.

For someone who bitched in a previous thread about people being brainwashed by Fox News, it sure is surprising to see you passing off still images as something they aren't. Propaganda.

[ManAbout]

(09-12-2012 02:31 PM)Smitty Wrote:  

For someone who bitched in a previous thread about people being brainwashed by Fox News, it sure is surprising to see you passing off still images as something they aren't. Propaganda.

Find me a still image capture of Obama grinning like that over something so somber.

Here's the timeline.

Quote:

At 6:21 a.m. ET, CNN reported on its wire service that U.S. ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens was killed in a rocket attack. Over the next few hours, it's revealed that three other personnel, including a Foreign Service information management officer, were also killed.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/201...ver-libya/

Quote:

A timeline of the events suggests Romney was wrong in his accusation that the Obama administration's "first response" on Tuesday was one of sympathy for those who started the violence itself–as the violence came after the first statement was published.

While the story was still developing, it wasn't until 6:21 AM that it was revealed that the US Ambassador hadn't been killed.

But, this moron had already put out a statement at 10:00 PM the PREVIOUS night attacking Obama. This is NOT the way to conduct yourself when an international crisis is in progress.

[Deif]

(09-12-2012 10:12 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

International etiquette and protocol is a completely foreign concept to these barbarians.

1. Gunboat diplomacy time. Refit the USS Wisconsin and send her into Benghazi harbor and have her 14-inch guns pave a path straight through the middle of the city. Rename the street Stevens Blvd.



2. Announce Benghazi a US concession for 99 years and all of Libyas oil wealth forfeit. They can earn their money by the old-fashioned way. If they disagree, start nuking.

3. Just for good measure, send a few B2 stealth-bombers into Egypt to bust a gaping hole in the Aswan Dam and flood the nile, Bible-style.

These three simple moves will settle matters in North Africa for the next century. We can let Iran know they're next.

What I really don't get is why we waste enormous amounts of time and money on trying to fight a conventional war when the counter-move from Islamists is a) insurgency b) terrorist attacks against our home populations. It's undignified. We have over 5,000 nuclear warheads, we should let the Islamists know that each time they shoot up a bus full of children, kill an ambassador and piss us off, we are going to nuke a muslim holy city. Starting with Medina, ending with Mecca, until they stop.

This strategy worked brilliantly in Iraq.

[Blunt]

(09-12-2012 08:36 AM)kosko Wrote:  

Articles point to a fuking movie and Gadaffi loyalists to blame. All false. If it was the movie surly other hotbeds for Islam would be upset also. Next up Bengahzi is a stronghold where every Gadaffi loyalist, Black, and Christian was ran out of town or killed. The group that looks to be responsible for this is a bunch of rag tag mercs from a Yemeni group called Ansar al-Sharia. There is all people unsure of when this attack happened.


Libya is 8hrs ahead, the Rocket attack on the Brick and Mortar building happened Tuesday night aka Tuesday daytime in America and would of made the news feeds very quickly. This second attack on a Car carrying the Ambassador happened Wed morning aka Tuesday night outside of USA news streams and hence the blowup of the coverage this morning. The specifics are still shady but a movie is hard to fuking blame. Maybe Americans will buy that excuse but I sure won't.

Your post made sense when I read it, and it is starting to come out that they suspect this was unrelated to the Mohammed film. News outlets are saying the gov't suspected that the perpetrators were waiting for an opportunity like this (protests and riots) to stage the attack.

[Walderschmidt]

http://dissention.wordpress.com/2012/09/...-lynching/

[Smitty]

(09-12-2012 02:45 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

(09-12-2012 02:31 PM)Smitty Wrote:  

For someone who bitched in a previous thread about people being brainwashed by Fox News, it sure is surprising to see you passing off still images as something they aren't. Propaganda.

Find me a still image capture of Obama grinning like that over something so somber.

Here's the timeline.

Quote:

At 6:21 a.m. ET, CNN reported on its wire service that U.S. ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens was killed in a rocket attack. Over the next few hours, it's revealed that three other personnel, including a Foreign Service information management officer, were also killed.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/201...ver-libya/

Quote:

A timeline of the events suggests Romney was wrong in his accusation that the Obama administration's "first response" on Tuesday was one of sympathy for those who started the violence itself–as the violence came after the first statement was published.

While the story was still developing, it wasn't until 6:21 AM that it was revealed that the US Ambassador hadn't been killed.

But, this moron had already put out a statement at 10:00 PM the PREVIOUS night attacking Obama. This is NOT the way to conduct yourself when an international crisis is in progress.

Romney's initial statement, before the deaths, was criticizing the Cairo embassy's response to the riots, which was effectively apologizing to muslims for people who "abuse the universal right of free speech." How do you abuse free speech? Here's the embassy message:
"The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others."

Whether Obama liked the message or not, it was released by his government and his embassy and he and Hillary Clinton are responsible. Of course they will throw the embassy under the bus.

But again, I'm not a Romney guy. Just looking at this objectively.

Regarding the picture of Romney, remember this one that was completely taken out of context and the Liberals were screaming bloody hell because people were saying Obama was staring at her ass.