[seeker04542]

I've noticed for a long time that girls that I think could be described as 7s seem to have weird attitudes--my theory was that they were bitter because they knew if it weren't for only one little thing (say too small breasts, an oddly-shaped nose, etc.) they could be 8s, 9s, or 10s.

[kazz]

(09-12-2012 07:19 PM)dog24 Wrote:  

(09-12-2012 12:56 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

Don't fall into the temptation to be overly self deprecating or humble to win them over, they won't respect your efforts and will think even less of you.

So much this...
I would say avoid trying to be more friendly, my guess is people are already seeing you as weak, and since you look good they try to take value away from you.
You should demand respect if you want people to treat you nicely.
How much do you weigh? Can you hold your own in a fight?
Also what kind of girls are defensive towards you? If they are 6 below girls, i would say get used to it.

"I've had a lot of guy friends who use to talk down to me in the past because I tend to give off this certain "presence." I would have really close friends and I would meet their friends and those other friends just didn't like me. They couldn't explain it. I would overhear them saying things like, "I just don't like that guy." I've lost friends because of this. I've lost people who are close to me because of this".
I bet i lost more friends than you, the guys that eventually changed their mind about me, and gave me an opportunity are the ones that found out, i spent many years training martial arts.

You can be friendly and modest and receive respect, just don't take any shit. See how much fun you have traveling with that mindset.

[RichieP]

I do get girls being abit defensive around me relative to average looking mates. Putting up more of a front, be it bitchy/testy or just more deliberately controlled and trying to come off composed, whatever. Then again some girls are that bit more into me at first than my average looking mates, who they take longer to warm up to, even if we're bringing similar vibes.

One prime example was a two-set, the fattie overly into me because of my "pretty eyes" (lol) and the insecure young hot one trying to take me down a peg. Both were more balanced and friendly with my my other friends. Kind of ridiculous.

Either way it's a small difference. Game is everything (by that I mean actual alphaness, chops, ability to get girls in bed, whatever), and the guy with 5% more game pulls more hot ass than the guy with 50% better looks on the long-term. (only IMO.. dont wanna debate it, been done a million times.)

[whosyourdaddy]

I'm gonna bet it's because you could be coming off somewhat as a douchebag. Truly good looking dudes are loved by 5's, 6's 7's, etc. They can charm ALL women.

I'd say you're best example for behavior is Vincent Chase from Entourage. If you're really good looking, it's actually more productive to be laid-back, cool and friendly, while being confident at the same time. Vin also never had trouble with his male buds either.

Another tip: when a girl tries to blow you off, show that you're a deeper person and she'll be impressed. It's like running into a good looking blonde surfer dude from San Diego or some Abercrombie dude and instantly thinking he's a douche. But when she finds out that you don't fit the stereotype, you'll be killin it.

[iknowexactly]

(09-23-2012 09:55 PM)seeker04542 Wrote:  

I've noticed for a long time that girls that I think could be described as 7s seem to have weird attitudes--my theory was that they were bitter because they knew if it weren't for only one little thing (say too small breasts, an oddly-shaped nose, etc.) they could be 8s, 9s, or 10s.

I think Eric Weber referred to this in the first book I remember seeing about pickup, over 30 years ago.

He said ugly and beautiful girls are the easiest. Medium girls are the hardest.

Why?

Ugly girls know they have to work, HB's are confident they can get someone else if you aren't into them plus they think you will be into them. Also hot chicks have more practice turning guys down and learn how to do it more gracefully.

Medium girls don't know what's going on, and get performance anxiety.

[dog24]

(09-24-2012 09:49 AM)whosyourdaddy Wrote:  

I'm gonna bet it's because you could be coming off somewhat as a douchebag. Truly good looking dudes are loved by 5's, 6's 7's, etc. They can charm ALL women.

Yeah until that 5 or 6 hits on you and you reject them, not a single one has been even polite to me after that, they dont even say hi anymore and give you an i hate you look.
It has nothing to do with coming off douchy or whatnot, people make assumptions about you based on appearence alone even before you even say a word to them. One time i went to buy beer with a friend, we were walking on the sidewalk and a car with 5 guys pulled over and yelled at me youre so good looking, and then drove off. Another time in the daytime 6 guys passed by me on the sidewalk and one of them again yelled youre so good looking.
Sometimes it like having a bullseye on your forehead, you became a target for insecure people, douchebags, bullies.
Eventually i had to put up a front so that this kind of guys could realize im not one to be fucked with.
Like that saying says don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.

[anewtypedude]

You sure those guys aren't just gay? Straight guys don't tell another guy that he' s good looking.

[iknowexactly]

(09-25-2012 04:39 AM)anewtypedude Wrote:  

You sure those guys aren't just gay? Straight guys don't tell another guy that he' s good looking.

Who says so? Why? One of my father's favorite expressions of affection for me was calling me a "handsome good-for-nothing."

He was on the beach supporting the Marines during the Allied invasion of Iwo Jima and got grazed by a Japanese bullet manning a machine gun while on his ship, where he lived for two years during the miserable war. He wasn't scared of anybody or anything, except tax authorities.

The idea of men being so rigid in their demeanor and speech sounds so pathetic and conformist, like a boy in boot camp trying to prove his masculinity.

[FretDancer]

(09-25-2012 04:39 AM)anewtypedude Wrote:  

You sure those guys aren't just gay? Straight guys don't tell another guy that he' s good looking.

Are you insecure about your sexual preferences?

[Scarlet_Terror]

Quote:

Straight guys don't tell another guy that he' s good looking.

Totally disagree with this statement.

On topic: I'm a good looking guy, nice face. Tall, too. But I'm slim and that isn't enough for most American women because you can't see my stuff when I wear a long sleeved collared shirt. I might resemble Bruce Lee with my shirt off, but that doesn't matter because most WASPy white American girls want MASS, whether it's a bit of chub or lots of muscle.

I get rejected often enough on the grounds of being too skinny by American broads (both skinny and 'average' girls) to the point I can absolutely clean house when chasing Europeans or Asians.

Besides, a good looking guy who is a high 7 or low 8 will still have to put in way more work to get half the numbers a girl who is a 5-6 could get during two hours out on the town. Good looks may get your foot in the door, but there are many lays you can only lock down with tight game.

Good looks help with cases where the girl is attracted to you enough all you have to do is run FAG (fuckup avoidance game), but when it comes to gaming 8's+, I'd rather be a 6.5 with tight game than an 8 with some. And I'm more in the latter category.

[HiFlo]

Man, same exact thing has been happening to me recently, especially when I dress cool.

I will see a group of hotties eye-rape me and then I watch them point me out to my friends and they all nod approvingly. Then I go over, run standard small-talk game and they act very weird and a lot of times they'll run away with a weird girlish giggle.

Last night, I had a whole rockstar look goin on and went to a rock concert. A number of hot women all over the club would actually come up to me and request to have their photo taken with me. What was strange was that many of these women would have their fucking boyfriends RIGHT THERE WITH THEM, then they would get their picture taken with me and go back to their girl friends and boyfriends and do their little girlish giggle thing. I felt like a piece of meat, but it was a cool feeling too

Later on last night at another club there was a hottie, her gay friend and a fattie hangin out. I had a wife beater on and they were all pointing at me and checking me out. I went over and went direct to the the hottie, "I think you're fucking adorable." Then the gay guy and the fattie started to hit on me, and the hottie was like "You're shoulder muscle are so amazing...blah blah blah." It was closing time and all of a sudden the three of them started to move for the door. I asked the hottie for her number and she pulled the "I have a boyfriend" line with a girlish giggle.

Frustrating, yeah...

[MidniteSpecial]

No offense but you just sound wak bro. If a girl told me she liked girls i would say something like, "awesome!" Or "oh my god so do i we have so much in common." Or even, "great, maybe i can have a 3 some again, its been a while." Chics are giving you good bait and you are swimming right passed it.

[MidniteSpecial]

Good looks don't mean much to women. Its how you make them feel. Work on your people skills. It sounds like you care a lot About your self. Stop that. Start taking genuine interest in others. Ask questions. Give sincere compliments. This is what highly successful people do. At the end of the day all people really care about is them selves and if you play to that you will be surprised how mAny people will want to be around you. Be witty. Be funny. And stop caring so much. Not giving a fuck also works well. Im still thinking about cashier girl with the wasabi peas. I think i could get her to have a threesome where is she?

[Wargasm]

I think that good-looking guys are afforded a much smaller margin of error from attractive women when they first meet them. This is because they expect an attractive, stylish man to have a level of game at least equal to his looks.

This reminds me of the old sales adage, that one should always under-promise and over-deliver, therefore creating customer delight. An attractive man who doesn't have finely honed game is in essence "over-promising" and "under-delivering." On the other hand a decent looking Roosh-esque man dressed down may elicit a positive response from cute chicks when he exceeds their initially low expectations.

[All or Nothing]

(09-25-2012 02:54 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

(09-25-2012 04:39 AM)anewtypedude Wrote:  

You sure those guys aren't just gay? Straight guys don't tell another guy that he' s good looking.

Are you insecure about your sexual preferences?

I think it's pretty gay too that a guy would literally stop and yell to another man that he's good looking. Maybe given some of the context that dog gave, the guys were giving him shit rather than complementing him, but it still seems pretty like a pretty weird thing to do.

Also, when straight guys compliment another one on their looks it is done more so in passing in a normal conversation rather than being a direct statement.

[MrXY]

(10-01-2012 05:24 PM)Wargasm Wrote:  

I think that good-looking guys are afforded a much smaller margin of error from attractive women when they first meet them. This is because they expect an attractive, stylish man to have a level of game at least equal to his looks.

This reminds me of the old sales adage, that one should always under-promise and over-deliver, therefore creating customer delight. An attractive man who doesn't have finely honed game is in essence "over-promising" and "under-delivering." On the other hand a decent looking Roosh-esque man dressed down may elicit a positive response from cute chicks when he exceeds their initially low expectations.

I am a good looking guy,and dress well, and I agree that women expect my game to be sharp. They expect a good looking guy to have a high level of confidence-even some arrogance- and a lot of skill at handling women.

They probe me for any lapse in confidence, and accordingly the shit tests come early, thick and fast. You must be glib and arrogant during this phase. Once you have passed the initial phase of testing, you can become warmer and charming as you build rapport. If you try to be too nice too early, you have blown it.

As for the girls, there are always insecure ones who will blow you out just to make themselves feel better, but for the most part even the 5s and 6s feel themselves perfectly entitled to a good-looking guy and aren't intimidated. I agree that 7s are hard to crack; 8s are easier to approach and talk to than 7s.

[DriftWood]

Relevant.

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/11/2...ale-looks/

Quote:

1. Women can be drawn to men’s looks upon first sight, just as men are by women’s looks, but unlike men, women can (and will) nearly instantly lose the thrall they feel in the presence of a good-looking man should his behavior and conversation come across as unattractively beta. Betaness can kill the advantage of good looks dead.

Think of it this way, do you think that 50,000 years ago, women were selecting their sexual partners on the basis of their looks? Yeah right lol...

I remember back in my early twenties when a sexy young lady took a strong liking to me, she thought I was handsome and we had a few short encounters initially within my social circle where she may of perceived some sort of alpha vibe from me. But when we finally found ourselves alone, it didn't take long for my betaness to show its true self and she was turned off so cold, one might of thought I was made from ice.

Game is everything, whether looks make a difference or not initially is completely irrelevant to the task at hand. Do not try and derive your confidence or self-worth from your looks, or expect them to give you an upper hand in social situations. A women may get that sort of value from her looks, not a man. Sure, stay in shape and maintain good grooming practices, but do that for yourself. Your level of success and failure should be measured 100% in terms of game and nothing else.

[dirtman]

(10-01-2012 09:19 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

I am a good looking guy,and dress well, and I agree that women expect my game to be sharp. They expect a good looking guy to have a high level of confidence-even some arrogance- and a lot of skill at handling women.

They probe me for any lapse in confidence, and accordingly the shit tests come early, thick and fast. You must be glib and arrogant during this phase. Once you have passed the initial phase of testing, you can become warmer and charming as you build rapport. If you try to be too nice too early, you have blown it.

As for the girls, there are always insecure ones who will blow you out just to make themselves feel better, but for the most part even the 5s and 6s feel themselves perfectly entitled to a good-looking guy and aren't intimidated. I agree that 7s are hard to crack; 8s are easier to approach and talk to than 7s.

My response to the shit tests, bad attitude, and defensiveness is usually not much of anything. Silence. The pregnant pause. I tend not to react quickly. React too quickly and you're just feeding into the whole thing. Since I'm generally a lot older than the girls that do this to me, I look at them like I would if I were their high school teacher. Bemused, like I could just pat them on the head.

Bottom-line: don't take them too seriously. You have to respond like they are beneath you.

Next I usually smile and deflect to something humorous, and teasing about their behavior. This generally disarms them and makes them realize they are being ridiculous, and makes them relax a little.

Generally though, I aim for the girls I find most attractive (beyond 6 and 7 territory) because they are generally: 1) the most feminine; 2) the most apt to smile and be normal around you; 3) better at treating you like a man and keeping your dick hard and 4) are generally most grateful for the attention since most guys don't approach them.

It's the slutty 6's and 7's that are constantly getting attention (and getting their pussies beat up while drunk) that I try to avoid unless needs must.

[dog24]

(09-12-2012 12:56 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

You will always run into girls who get off on shutting down guys, especially good looking guys because they are small people trying to validate their small existence at your expense. Insecure guys, will always call you a douche simply because you make them feel insecure.

Damn im getting this 10x more than the last time ive posted.
I know haters are insecure, but what to do when you need to win those people over? I always been the type to cut this people off completely but im realizing that its a lose lose situation, me being on the loser side. Cause they still talk shit behind my back

Ive read that youre a fighter and a big dude, have you ever fought those type of guys?
Last time two guys came up to me and one of them had clenched fists like he was about to do something, both were bigger than me but i doubt they could fight otherwise they would have know better. I just kept walking kind of laughing, i know i at least would have left one of them with a broken nose and a couple teeth on the ground but people that dont know me will assume im just weak cause i didnt do nothing... what would you have done?

For all you guys how big in weight terms do you have to be for this shit to be over? Im 5´10 180lb and i dont think there is much left for me to grow without steroids

[damngringo]

In my experience, reactions like these from guys must come from your vibe. It has to be one of the two:

1. You look like people around you owe you something and / or are there for your pleasure. Realise it's not so and start actively listening / be charming / actually give something positive to them without coming up as stuck up self-centered douche. Internalise that there is always something you can learn from most of the people. I have encountered quite a few of these types, but they seem to never learn.

2. You come off as sleazy or manipulative, so people sense that you only want to get something from them. The treatment is pretty much the same as above, but from a different angle - focus on giving.

A lot of people mentioned that charm is the way to go, and I definitely agree. It's about making people feel good around you - smile sincerely, shake hands firmly, maintain eye contact, and work on your social prowess in general.

[theIVth]

Your either really young and just around a bunch of guys that think your weak for whatever reason or your doing a lot of inadvertent fucked up shit that makes people want to knock you out.

I would advise that you just start being cool man. Be more laidback but engage folks at the same time. Dap guys up or give them a pound when your introduced to them. Shake girls hands and make eye contact with them when introduced. Make light hearted small talk. Realize that some guys may be with certain girls and just be neutral with them. Shoot the shit with your friends and just have a good time. Say less than necessary. Dont TRY to make friends with folks but dont shun anybody that engages you either. Just generally speaking, become more self aware and aware of your surroundings.

Im 6'3, 220 now so I rarely if ever have guys that try to test me or even look at me for too long without speaking or giving a head nod. But I used to be real skinny and would occasionally get tested when i was a lot younger. Sometimes you just gotta let a guy know whats up and fight if it comes to that. People will eventually figure out that your not the one to be fucked with.

(12-27-2012 10:00 AM)dog24 Wrote:  

(09-12-2012 12:56 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

You will always run into girls who get off on shutting down guys, especially good looking guys because they are small people trying to validate their small existence at your expense. Insecure guys, will always call you a douche simply because you make them feel insecure.

Damn im getting this 10x more than the last time ive posted.
I know haters are insecure, but what to do when you need to win those people over? I always been the type to cut this people off completely but im realizing that its a lose lose situation, me being on the loser side. Cause they still talk shit behind my back

Ive read that youre a fighter and a big dude, have you ever fought those type of guys?
Last time two guys came up to me and one of them had clenched fists like he was about to do something, both were bigger than me but i doubt they could fight otherwise they would have know better. I just kept walking kind of laughing, i know i at least would have left one of them with a broken nose and a couple teeth on the ground but people that dont know me will assume im just weak cause i didnt do nothing... what would you have done?

For all you guys how big in weight terms do you have to be for this shit to be over? Im 5´10 180lb and i dont think there is much left for me to grow without steroids

[Teedub]

Being good looking is definitely among the 'first world problems' of game. You may have to slightly alter aspects of the 'bad boy alpha' vibe but overall, its a problem you'd rather have than not I think.

[stylishplayboy]

If you can tell a guy is fat - you can tell when a guy is good looking.

There are different types of "good looking" though among men. One good looking man may do it for a large percentage of females, but another percentage of females may not respond. Contrary to how a "hot" woman is going to excite almost any man - even if he prefers blondes over brunettes.

Men can almost always agree on a woman being attractive. For men, there is ruggedly handsome, pretty boy, classically attractive, etc.

The guys who are considered the best looking generally have some combination of rugged-with-pretty, I've noticed the majority of male models have that chiseled look with a hint of pretty underneath.

[jammer]

No homo, but its not too hard to guess which guys are good looking when looking at them. Maybe you can't rate them 1-10, but you can tell a guy who is average, ugly, and one who is decent looking.

[stpete]

In lazy times I'll go after girls that I guess are a few points below me.
These are average girls in that they could work out a bit more.

I usually think this will be easy and see where it goes.

I'm constantly surprised that these girls are harder than the better looking ones. It would drive me crazy and didn't make any sense. I think all girls have a rating system in their head. If you are perceived as better looking you are not the prize you think you are. The only exception would be a SNL

I think most guys should realize and stick with girls in your range. It will solve a lot of problems in many areas including a thread I saw on foreign women. Understanding your sex rank and her sex rank and all that determines where each stands will help a lot if you want something more than a SNL.

You can always do things to increase your points like making more money. Otherwise you are just fighting reality.