[Phil]

(09-05-2012 04:27 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

I am a expert at mid 19th Russian history because my fucking wife went to bed early for 10 years.

Amazing rant.

Here is the original link: http://donlak.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/g...mment-3047

Amazing it was.

I often ask blue pillers, "If marriage hadn't existed for centuries, would a man invent it today in 2012?"

The question answers itself. Women have everything to gain by marrying and nothing to lose. Men have almost nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Unless a man has a burning desire to raise kids in a nuclear family. Even then I'd tell him to a.) adopt and/or b.) become a mentor.

The thought of marrying....hell, the thought of merely having a live-in girlfriend makes me shudder.

If Obama rammed through an amendment to his insurance bill saying that in addition to buying health insurance, I have to marry or pay a fine, I would pay the fine.

I would pay a huge fine.

[reaper23]

(09-06-2012 04:58 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

As for how to reconcile marriage and kids? For me I would have an unfenced sexual relationship with the mother and sign and legal contract that lays out financial and parental responsibilities for both of us * AND NOTHING ELSE * as a replacement for the marriage contract.

Such a contract should always assume joint responsibility.

my girl is pregnant. she is a legit 8. she comes from money. education. we're not married.

i'm considering what you've written above.

[DarkTriad]

(09-06-2012 02:18 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-06-2012 11:31 AM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-06-2012 09:27 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

I'll have to say I haven't seen a legit girl have a kid out of wedlock. Hot girls yes but legit meaning a real job $100k+ and good looking.

I have. It's rare, but if you're hammering them good enough, and they're crazy in love, and they're biological clock is ticking like a time bomb, yes, many will absolutely keep that baby. Yeah, if they have all the tools to lock down a quality marriage partner, it's rarer to see them without one, but never think they won't keep the baby.

Ticking biological clock equals old equals not legit.

A 6 is not legit.

A poor white trash hot chick is not legit.

We are mortal.

None of us are going to get a cultured Russian supermodel from a good family to have our children out of wedlock.

Even Jay-z ended up gettig married.

So let's have this conversation within the context of reality.

___________________________________________________

Celebs don't have to get married, they simply choose to. And if you want to talk celebs, let's talk about Heidi Klum and Bridget Moynihan.

You exploit all kinds of irrational female behaviors to get them in the sack, and you act like it has to be rational decision to have a baby with you.

Women will have babies with guys it is a HORRIBLE idea to have kids with all the time, nevermind a cool guy that actually WANTS to have child with her. All that has to happen is her in love with you and you blasting bareback loads inside her....it's likely to happen eventually whether you want it or not

(09-06-2012 09:27 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

I'll have to say I haven't seen a legit girl have a kid out of wedlock. Hot girls yes but legit meaning a real job $100k+ and good looking.

Between WestCoast and MikeCF, you're coming up with an incredibly narrow pool of "legit" chicks - She's got to be hot AND make over a 100k a year? Even for the girls that are hot, and make over 100K, there are very few years where this will overlap (takes them into their 30s to be making 100k, and by then their hotness is usually degrading rapidly). Less than 1% of women ever make 100k a year, nevermind look hot while doing it.

[DarkTriad]

(09-07-2012 09:42 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

(09-06-2012 04:58 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

As for how to reconcile marriage and kids? For me I would have an unfenced sexual relationship with the mother and sign and legal contract that lays out financial and parental responsibilities for both of us * AND NOTHING ELSE * as a replacement for the marriage contract.

Such a contract should always assume joint responsibility.

my girl is pregnant. she is a legit 8. she comes from money. education. we're not married.

i'm considering what you've written above.

_______________________________________________________
You can do it, but just realize it's purely a psychological ploy, because none of this will matter in Family Court. Regardless of what you agree, she can argue that it's in the best interests of the child that she gets 40% of your take home pay....and she may well get it. Family Court is a Court of Equity, not a court of law....meaning they regularly wipe their ass with this stuff.

Sooner or later she will use the threat of this to attempt to extort commitment from you. Still better than being married tho.

Also, i feel it's worth pointing out that here is an example of a hot "quality" girl from a good family that's choosing to have an unwed baby with a guy with game. The unicorn does exist. In fact, biggest problem with this unicorn isn't finding her, it's when she sneaks up behind you and jams her horn up your ass.

[Excalibur]

I for one, does want to get married. But it does seem that the traditional concept of marriage in today's society is becoming less and less relevant or in many cases it may do more harm than good.

I see how it make sense, just being a good person, to protect a woman, stay by her side, provide for her when she's pregnant. After that , again, it's just being a good human being to take care a little one, help out the mother. But the whole modern institute of marriage with it's financial ramification mixed with independent opinionated american girls. I don't know, just don't know what the right answer is.

One one hand, my parents are happily married for decades. Among my relatives, there's like 1% divorce rate. On the other hand, most of my co-workers are divorced, and the ones who are not are bitching about their wives everyday.

In a certain society with certain type of women, marriage definitely work out well. I can't speak for europe, but in US (California per se) the idea of marraige is almost a joke

[Hades]

I've always believed that marriage was an honorable pagan sacrament corrupted through law. Men are not given enough credit in today's modern marriage market.

This is why I'm in favor of the common-law type stuff that a lot of irreligious folks overseas seem to do (boyfriend and girlfriend, not married, generally in their forties with two kids). If you want to have kids and raise them properly, there's nothing wrong with that.

[Timoteo]

I think there are plenty of instances where a woman might be fine being in an relationship with a man, having children and not getting married. But it's all the girlfriends, family, co-workers in her ear, fucking with her about why her man won't marry her, that makes her believe that somehow she's getting short-changed, or is somehow undervalued by her partner because he won't wife her up. Without all the noise, she wouldn't even think about her official marital status, and would be far more concerned about the happiness of her partner and kids.

[gqntexas]

first time poster here.. This reminded me of a classic forum i read years ago..

http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/2009/07/2...ur-life-2/

and also

http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/

[Samseau]

(09-09-2012 11:01 AM)gqntexas Wrote:  

first time poster here.. This reminded me of a classic forum i read years ago..

http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/2009/07/2...ur-life-2/

and also

http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/

I've read those a long time ago. But although the choir of voices is entertaining, they lack the dedication and focus of this singular hatred towards marriage the rant I posted here.

[dirtman]

Mark is a bitter divorcee, that's pretty obvious. It's also obvious that he feels he has 0% responsibility for his marriage going south. That is of course the apex of being a pussy. Women may blame everything on men, but if men start doing so, it's just so un-manly.

[SnakeEyes]

(09-09-2012 11:01 AM)gqntexas Wrote:  

first time poster here.. This reminded me of a classic forum i read years ago..

http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/2009/07/2...ur-life-2/

and also

http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/

Read this quote after a workout ad you'll feel his intensity.

Quote:

Just wanted to reiterate how, after my recent divorce (check a few pages back), fucking inspired I am by all you tards. I never thought I’d say it, but this is really a great forumfor shit like this.

My advice for all you beaten down, miserable guys stuck with some fucking twinkie-eatin’,
american-idol/extreme-makeover-watchin’, annoying bitchy cunt is GET THE FUCK OUT.
Take your life back. I’m not tooting my own shit, but since I’ve gotten divorced, I’ve gotten
into 2 MBA schools (haven’t picked yet), played in 7 beach volleyball tournaments, and about 3 months into a fucking marathon training program. Yes, I miss the easy, consistent quality sex. No, I do not miss just about anything else.

This is YOUR life tards. One shot, no “do-overs,” are you *REALLY* gonna spend it with some unhappy fucking cunt? FUCK THAT. Reclaim it. Do all the shit you always wanted to do. The pussy will COME to you. Make your move.

[reaper23]

(09-09-2012 07:37 PM)SnakeEyes Wrote:  

(09-09-2012 11:01 AM)gqntexas Wrote:  

first time poster here.. This reminded me of a classic forum i read years ago..

http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/2009/07/2...ur-life-2/

and also

http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/

Read this quote after a workout ad you'll feel his intensity.

Quote:

Just wanted to reiterate how, after my recent divorce (check a few pages back), fucking inspired I am by all you tards. I never thought I’d say it, but this is really a great forumfor shit like this.

My advice for all you beaten down, miserable guys stuck with some fucking twinkie-eatin’,
american-idol/extreme-makeover-watchin’, annoying bitchy cunt is GET THE FUCK OUT.
Take your life back. I’m not tooting my own shit, but since I’ve gotten divorced, I’ve gotten
into 2 MBA schools (haven’t picked yet), played in 7 beach volleyball tournaments, and about 3 months into a fucking marathon training program. Yes, I miss the easy, consistent quality sex. No, I do not miss just about anything else.

This is YOUR life tards. One shot, no “do-overs,” are you *REALLY* gonna spend it with some unhappy fucking cunt? FUCK THAT. Reclaim it. Do all the shit you always wanted to do. The pussy will COME to you. Make your move.

if you can't do all that he posted above while married, then you're a fucking pussy.

and note, now that he is single, he is missing sex

sounds like a chump

[SnakeEyes]

(09-09-2012 07:46 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

if you can't do all that he posted above while married, then you're a fucking pussy.

and note, now that he is single, he is missing sex

sounds like a chump

http://www.rooshv.com/are-you-a-hater-or-a-facilitator

Quote:

A hater feels better by trying to keep other people down.
A facilitator feels better by lifting other people up along with him.

A hater focuses on a person’s weaknesses.
A facilitator focuses on a person’s strengths.

Just sayin

[reaper23]

(09-09-2012 08:01 PM)SnakeEyes Wrote:  

(09-09-2012 07:46 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

if you can't do all that he posted above while married, then you're a fucking pussy.

and note, now that he is single, he is missing sex

sounds like a chump

http://www.rooshv.com/are-you-a-hater-or-a-facilitator

Quote:

A hater feels better by trying to keep other people down.
A facilitator feels better by lifting other people up along with him.

A hater focuses on a person’s weaknesses.
A facilitator focuses on a person’s strengths.

Just sayin

i guess i'm a hater. if a guy, who i am presuming is not you based on the quotes, can't do anything that he wants to do while he is married, then he is a pussy.

should i facilitate by saying, hey random guy who is not the guy, maybe you should try doing some of the things you like while you're married otherwise you'll end up a bitter fucking loser?

some situations require shaming to make a point.

and the point is, if you dont have the balls to do the things you like to do while you're married, likely you'll never be happy at all.

[BadWolf]

first time poster here.. This reminded me of a classic forum i read years ago..

http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/2009/07/2...ur-life-2/

and also

http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/

I was on the dontmarry forum for a long time... the guys on there are militant MGTOWs that hate everything PUA and have huge problems attracting women. All they do all day is spit venom and bitch about women, their lives and what not, they sound just like bitter old feminists. Not a great example to follow.

[naughtynomad]

This has been the best thread I've read in awhile. I'm grateful for all the wisdom you guys have shared - especially to Dads and other guys with more life experience. I've struggled with the kids with marriage conflict and still can't decide where I'm at. I'd like to add to the discourse, too.

Personally, I want kids...but marriage? Fuck that. It's simply not natural. We are not monogamous animals. I'm sure many of you have seen it with your nearest and dearest: all too often, monogamy breeds misery. Men get shackled.

Now, that said, I wouldn't mind if it if she was a non-Westerner and didn't mind me sleeping around and going on holiday with the lads (an 'unfenced' relationship as JJ Roberts puts it in his book). You'd be surprised how many girl would tolerate this (natural) behaviour in some parts of the world.

Ultimately, your situation will depend on where you settle. Here are the two most extreme examples of where marriage fares worst and best.

The West : Options are limited. High divorce rates. Feminism. Most decent women will not consider kids without being a marriage. The law is not of your side. Low tolerance for men fucking around. However, you might get lucky and find an open-minded hot chick willing to raise kids without a contract.


Islamic or animist Sub-Saharan Africa: You can have as many hot-ass wives as you want provided you can pay the dowry of 10 cows or 50 goats (that's the going rate in East Africa if I recall. I'm sure you pick up them up real cheap in DRC.) You can also fuck whoever you want on the side. My Yuroba girlfriend's dad have three wives. He married the third wife (her mom) when he was 50 and she was 18. My gf remembers growing up back in Nigeria and seeing her Dad regularly have girls come over.

Now, I wouldn't necessarily be rushing to live in Nigeria or pay a dime for a dowry, but it's certainly an option if you got old and want to live the life of medieval king.

The middle ground would probably be South East Asia. Philly perhaps. Divorce is still illegal there Win.

You could raise a family cheap and have a chica on every island.

[worldwidetraveler]

(09-09-2012 09:47 PM)naughtynomad Wrote:  

The middle ground would probably be South East Asia. Philly perhaps. Divorce is still illegal there Win.

You could raise a family cheap and have a chica on every island.

I believe adultery is also illegal in Philippines.

[el mechanico]

The problem is once you see your kids you want them to have a good life. You can't just leave them in Jakarta or wherever living substandardly. The same kind of person who can do that is the same guy you hear about getting bent over in court here.

[worldwidetraveler]

(09-09-2012 10:04 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

The problem is once you see your kids you want them to have a good life. You can't just leave them in Jakarta or wherever living substandardly. The same kind of person who can do that is the same guy you hear about getting bent over in court here.

That is kind of where I am at. I would like kids but know my traveling days would be numbered. I like the lifestyle here in the states but get tired of dealing with the women and their craziness.

I was renovating a room in the house and had it empty. At the time, I was seeing this chick on and off. I go to that room to do something in the closet and the bitch had stuff in there. She was moving her shit in one garment at a time.

We went to visit a friend that was about 3 hours away by car. She got on my last nerve so I stopped the car and told her to get the fuck out. She ended up having to take a bus back. Later she called me saying she was going to break into my house since she was living there.

By living there she meant had clothes there to make it look like she was living there. The bitch knew the laws for that sort of shit.

[phoenixhr]

I love being the exception to the rule. I'm going to play devil's advocate because the Idea of marriage is still a good one, if a mutha fucka can learn to make an informed decision. This is a one sided argument at the moment, started out of bitterness. Marriage isn't for pussies, but not training your bitch right, from the door to become the woman you would want to marry is the pussy thing. Show a woman it's the ultimate reward for years of hard work on her part and good pimpin' on your part.

Most men who marry at this point in our culture, are doing so early, before going through the proper steps to test a woman to see if she's even worth marrying. The last 2 generations have been nothing but detriments to the male culture as a whole by not teaching these young men how to detect viable candidates, filter for compatibility, or confidently lead relationships. The divorce rate is so high because we've got dumbasses who don't take the time to properly delve a woman and see what she's really about. Live with a bitch for 2-3 years before even considering wif'ing her. Spend a minimium of 4+ to train her good. And realize you'll never stop pimpin' her. You afraid she's going to take your shit in the divorce? She deserves half of the house if you both build it from the ground up so fuck you. If she came in and you already had a barony built; make her sign a pre-nup. She wont? Take away the reward of marriage till she starts acting right. Acquiesce to her demands and she'll just make more. Stand up to her and show her you won't be bullied, she'll back down or walk away. Both are good decisions for you.

We as men can be happy with a woman if she can be taught to meet our needs while giving in to the concessions of a relationship. Yes, all people in LTRs will tell you compromise and concessions are needed because you both want something and need to haggle the cost. I like getting pussy the way I like it from a bitch who knows how I like it, consistently. She in turn gets the security of companionship, the comfort in our lifestyle, the reward of pleasing a man, and the opportunity to mother children. Don't do a disservice to the idea of marriage; it's a good idea for the right people. If it was legal, i'd marry both my women because they are both good girls. I aught to know, I made them that way.

[Timoteo]

(09-10-2012 12:48 AM)phoenixhr Wrote:  

I love being the exception to the rule. I'm going to play devil's advocate because the Idea of marriage is still a good one, if a mutha fucka can learn to make an informed decision. This is a one sided argument at the moment, started out of bitterness. Marriage isn't for pussies, but not training your bitch right, from the door to become the woman you would want to marry is the pussy thing. Show a woman it's the ultimate reward for years of hard work on her part and good pimpin' on your part.

Most men who marry at this point in our culture, are doing so early, before going through the proper steps to test a woman to see if she's even worth marrying. The last 2 generations have been nothing but detriments to the male culture as a whole by not teaching these young men how to detect viable candidates, filter for compatibility, or confidently lead relationships. The divorce rate is so high because we've got dumbasses who don't take the time to properly delve a woman and see what she's really about. Live with a bitch for 2-3 years before even considering wif'ing her. Spend a minimium of 4+ to train her good. And realize you'll never stop pimpin' her. You afraid she's going to take your shit in the divorce? She deserves half of the house if you both build it from the ground up so fuck you. If she came in and you already had a barony built; make her sign a pre-nup. She wont? Take away the reward of marriage till she starts acting right. Acquiesce to her demands and she'll just make more. Stand up to her and show her you won't be bullied, she'll back down or walk away. Both are good decisions for you.

We as men can be happy with a woman if she can be taught to meet our needs while giving in to the concessions of a relationship. Yes, all people in LTRs will tell you compromise and concessions are needed because you both want something and need to haggle the cost. I like getting pussy the way I like it from a bitch who knows how I like it, consistently. She in turn gets the security of companionship, the comfort in our lifestyle, the reward of pleasing a man, and the opportunity to mother children. Don't do a disservice to the idea of marriage; it's a good idea for the right people. If it was legal, i'd marry both my women because they are both good girls. I aught to know, I made them that way.

In theory, what you've written is on point. The issue is that women don't stay the same person they were before the ring and ceremony. The wedding changes everything in their minds. The expectations are different, and their behavior is different. For them, the wedding is the destination. They'll work as hard and do whatever they have to do to get their intended target down the aisle. Once that mission is accomplished, they don't believe they have to work for you anymore. The premise that she'll remain the woman you've "trained" her to be before you married her is shaky. I agree with the premise that you have to game her throughout your relationship/marriage is very sound though. Unlike women, men know the real work starts after the ceremony. The culture no longer produces women that respect a strong man. At the same time, has our culture produced weaker men? Yeah, there's a good argument for that, and tons of articles about this phenomenon have been written by both women AND men. To find the woman that you can train in the fashion you state, you need to leave these shores, or find one that was raised outside the culture that is incorruptable by this poisoned one. Women produced by THIS culture are great at the bait and switch.

I'd like to share a little story. It's an extreme example, but it's true. In the years right after college, I worked for a few years at a major NY law firm as a paralegal. I played on the firm basketball team, so got to socialize and play with some of the better young lawyers at the firm. One of them, Bill, was getting married to his long-time girlfriend. He was younger, but a few years in and on the verge of making partner. He had been with his girlfriend for about 8 years, and lived with her for more than half that time. His future was looking up, so he made the decision to marry his girl.

It was a lavish affair, with firm partners there and all of his colleagues. On their honeymoon, they fucked for the first time as man & wife. Somehow, in her mind, it was supposed to feel different. There were supposed to be fireworks, and the moment was supposed to be magical since they were now married. She was overwhelmed with sadness, and for the duration of their honeymoon, she refused to fuck him again. When they returned home (to the new home they purchased to start this new chapter of their lives), she immediately moved into another bedroom, refusing to sleep with him anymore. Naturally, they separated shortly thereafter and divorced. Just like that. This was a woman so delusional that she thought having a ceremony would change the sex between her and man she had been with for almost a decade, and because it didn't, she felt she could no longer be with him. After the expense of a lavish wedding, a honeymoon, a new house AND new cars, she wanted out because the first time they fucked post-wedding wasn't like when she lost her virginity, or at least the first time THEY fucked as a couple. So, did this happen because he didn't KNOW who she was? Because he didn't "train" her properly? Honestly, you would need to find a woman so helpless and mentally broken, that would want or NEED to be your personal piece of clay because she is unable to function on her own, that she would gladly accept leadership. Even broken chicks THINK they're strong and feel they can and should "challenge" men. I'm not critical of men that decide to marry, however, I do believe that the only reason you SHOULD marry is to be a father (not that you HAVE to marry for that, but I think it's the only reason you should if you really want to get married). Women marry for the most part because they want kids, and all the things that come with it, and after they get those things, the man is no longer necessary. So men should take the same approach - this bitch is an incubator for my heir/progeny. I just think that the constant gaming/training of bitches is WORK - and do I really want to take on another full-time job in bitch training, or do I want to come home and chill?

[Vicious]

This entire thread revolves around the American marriage which entitles the woman to a large chunk of a man's assets.

You could just get around that by marrying elsewhere where said laws are more lax or do not exist.

[Excelsior]

(09-10-2012 09:38 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

This entire thread revolves around the American marriage which entitles the woman to a large chunk of a man's assets.

You could just get around that by marrying elsewhere where said laws are more lax or do not exist.

Bingo.

It is in the USA and a handful of other Anglo nations where marriage becomes such a difficult choice due to its relatively harsh treatment of the male.

I generally agree with most of the posts in here that are critical of marriage, especially the opening rant, but only in the context of AMERICAN marriage. The cultural and legal environment here is such that the OP is absolutely dead on in that context, and I see no rational argument opposing him.

In other cultures, however, marriage is a much safer bet for a guy with many fewer downsides. I'd be quite open to marriage elsewhere, but I'll remain hesitant to sign an American, Canadian, Australian or British marriage contract.

[RawGod]

I wonder if the whole climate of gender relations in the Anglosphere is a result of divorce laws in those countries. Would be good if someone less lazy than myself could write up a comparison of the laws in different places.

(09-10-2012 09:58 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(09-10-2012 09:38 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

This entire thread revolves around the American marriage which entitles the woman to a large chunk of a man's assets.

You could just get around that by marrying elsewhere where said laws are more lax or do not exist.

Bingo.

It is in the USA and a handful of other Anglo nations where marriage becomes such a difficult choice due to its relatively harsh treatment of the male.

I generally agree with most of the posts in here that are critical of marriage, especially the opening rant, but only in the context of AMERICAN marriage. The cultural and legal environment here is such that the OP is absolutely dead on in that context, and I see no rational argument opposing him.

In other cultures, however, marriage is a much safer bet for a guy with many fewer downsides. I'd be quite open to marriage elsewhere, but I'll remain hesitant to sign an American, Canadian, Australian or British marriage contract.

[Menace]

I bet we could apply the Pareto principle and conclude that we can throw out 80% of our complaints with respect to women if we lived in a non-Anglophone society.