[Brian]

(07-22-2012 09:08 PM)Blackhawk Wrote:  

This guy can't even afford a $5 haircut and appears to dye his hair with random left over ink toner cartridges he fishes out of office trash cans

I don't understand how he suddenly has $20,000 either.

Credit. Its not like he's going to have to worry about repaying it.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(07-22-2012 04:35 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Another thing I've learned from reading the news:


Cops were everywhere at the theater during the night of the shooting, since it was premiere night. They were there to handle the crowds and maintain public safety.

So, despite being less than 30 seconds of sprinting away from the theater where the shooting took place, the audience was massacred.

So much for cops being the solution to mass shootings.

I can't find that picture now, but a day ago, New York Times had a report about police stepping up security around theaters, and provided a picture of a policeman guarding one.

The policeman was overweight (large pot belly), wearing glasses, and slouched like a total Beta.

I don't expect that one to halt a maniac with body armor and semi-automatic rifles. But I don't think the solution is to equip each cop with an uzi either.

[Samseau]

(07-22-2012 05:00 PM)Brian Wrote:  

(07-22-2012 04:35 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Another thing I've learned from reading the news:


Cops were everywhere at the theater during the night of the shooting, since it was premiere night. They were there to handle the crowds and maintain public safety.

So, despite being less than 30 seconds of sprinting away from the theater where the shooting took place, the audience was massacred.

So much for cops being the solution to mass shootings.

were they real cops of baton wielding rent a cops?

Real cops.

Quote:

I don't expect that one to halt a maniac with body armor and semi-automatic rifles. But I don't think the solution is to equip each cop with an uzi either.

They already tried that solution.


Does anyone know why James Holmes was wearing body armor and equipped to the teeth?

Because he was dressing to match the other cops present there. All the cops were wearing full body armor and equipped with semi-automatic weapons.

James Holmes blended right in. He was a smart kid, and outsmarted them all.

He walked in, and everything thought he was an actual cop.



Ban guns, and all you'll have is cops to rely on.

[Amsterdao!]

(07-20-2012 01:34 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

(07-20-2012 10:33 AM)Moma Wrote:  

Most of the powerful men who get the most puzzy worldwide, actually pay for lizards, non? I think it's a combo of things (a liberal gun culture being the biggest factor and sexually frustrated cats. Again, maybe Neil can chime in on this, how many Dutch cats go around murking hordes of people?

I am Dutch and the answer is not many. We have generally low crime rates. However, coincidentally we had a single shoote massacre in a shopping mall in April 2011.

I think a giant factor is gun availability (and a culture that rewards the 'bad' and punishes the 'good'). No guns means less options. When they're as common as spoons and forks it's a smaller step to grab one and empty it.

The 24-year old Dutch shooter was in fact a member of a gun club, despite having some mental issues and we can be sure he was not successful with girls.

By the way, Holland is promiscuous, but not everyone is fucking. Like Roissy said, sluts can be even more picky: they will only take alpha guys for the night. In more traditional societies a simple beta guy will have more luck.

Why would you think this only happens in the USA? It's true it is easier to get access to weapons there, but there were multiple killings here in Europe for the last 10 years. Check this list and especially the last 10 years. Besides spree killings in the USA you see Finland, Germany, Holland, Norway etcetc.....so let's just say it happens a lot in a western culture, not only in the USA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer

This guy from Holland i knew him pretty well because i worked with this guy and we live in the same town. This kind of crime in not only game related, but these kind of guys feel they don't belong in this society. In Some strange way they recognition and feel important.....even in a bad way. These guys copy each other and want to kill as much as possible....you can't stop it. Wrong time, wrong place and you're fucked as well...

[polish rumble]

[assman]

(07-23-2012 03:53 AM)Amsterdao! Wrote:  

Why would you think this only happens in the USA? It's true it is easier to get access to weapons there, but there were multiple killings here in Europe for the last 10 years. Check this list and especially the last 10 years. Besides spree killings in the USA you see Finland, Germany, Holland, Norway etcetc.....so let's just say it happens a lot in a western culture, not only in the USA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer

Exactly.

Has everyone forgotten the Norway massacre? Norway has much stricter gun laws than the US and does not permit concealed carry, which made Breivik's kill spree a walk in the park for him. He took his damned sweet time killing 69 and wounding 110 others.

To Samseau's point, Breivik was dressed as a cop.

To those people who "feel" that an armed citizenry would be more dangerous, why don't you look at the actual data. Check out John Lott's book on the subject.

[Moma]

I just checked the list. Not only does US appear there the most often, almost all incidents were done using guns.

This whole thing sounds absurd. You carrying guns to the cinema with your kids to watch cartoons.
Because of the capacity for mayhem.

Again, even after the massacre in Norway, did Norwegians feel that the answer to that were to permit more guns??

This is an international forum. Ask your Norwegian friends. Ask your Dutch friends. After that guy went out and merked dozens, did the Norwegian/Dutch public cry out for more concealed gun carry?

Without trying to sound judgemental or disparaging, why is it that the US cats are the only ones who feel that the solution is to flood the market with more guns?

We spoke about this before. So assman, when you travel to Norway, since you can't take your piece with you, do you feel terribly naked as you stroll through, for fear that gunman could pop out and just merk everyone?

What about when normally strapped guys go to the Netherlands? It's like being clothed at home and you go somewhere and they ask you to remove all your clothes, right?

The root of the problem is not the lack of guns. A poster already explained that if everyone in there was strapped and this happened, more cats would have got blasted.
It was smokey and it would seem like bullets were coming from all over the place.

Hey, what about a kevlar vest? Shouldn't everyone wear those at all times?
Fcuk it, wear full assault gear. Go around in public like soldiers.
Because that's a closer way to ensuring safety than just allowing concealed carry.

In sunny states where the temps reach 40 degree celsius, you go down for a beer on the beach, you carry bulky gun holster with you and kevlar vest with you?

Am I incorrect in thinking that North America (US particular) has the most type of killings like this? If so, why?
Is it the population? Is the US the most populated Western country in the world?

[assman]

moma, a whole lot of rambling from the guy who suggested we leave our safety to the police (who of course will never get there in time to prevent a crime from happening). Read the book, look at the data, get back to me.

[qazwsx]

Ideologically, I'm what you call in America a libertarian. A right-libertarian.

But, c'mon, guys with mental illness can buy and own guns just like they buy food? That is not right. Some of you think that guns are primarily a tool that may defend your liberty and avoid others to take it from you. It can be true in some ways, but guns are objects with an enormous destructive potential, and more than anything, a single gun can take lots of lives and is a very powerful object of coercion. So when the stats say that USA has some of the highest rates of people with mental problems, at least you should make it harder for people with mental illness to carry guns, don't you agree?

The foundation of United States of America and its political and cultural mindset deserve my biggest praise. But I always found that the worst thing in it was that culture of violence through guns, the historical obsession of American people with guns. Being from a peaceful contry like Portugal, it's hard to me to understand it - how in USA in almost every story, every film, every news, every tv series there are guns and there are people shot down. How men need guns to feel men.

I don't think it's normal or sane in a country that doesn't have a civil war, a country that is the wealthiest in the world, a country where even the poorer are actually richer than the middle class in most other countries (like mine), I don't think it's normal or sane, as I was saying, to have so many people carrying guns, and so many people not just having a single revolver for self-defense but actually having complete arsenals at home.

Here in Portugal, and - I suppose - in other western civilized countries, a lot of the homicides committed with guns are consequence of just a beef. Sometimes just simple neighbors or even some members of a family (sometimes described by everyone as nice people) just enter in a beef and then it just happens that one of them have a gun near, loose his mind and shoot the gun. If they hadn't a gun nearby probably the worst that would happen was a fight with their fists. But when a humble person has a moment of insanity with a gun in his hands, usually someone die.

That's why albeit I am a libertarian I only agree with the right of people have some simple self-defense guns (or special cases like guns for hunting or shooting sports only). And of course get people mentally tested before giving a license to buy and own a gun (like it already happens in a lot of European countries). Oh, but people are able to get guns in black market? Sure, it happens with all illegal products, but at least it's harder to get it, and they know they will get in trouble if they get caught.

I don't like guns. The less guns the better. I do not intend to own a gun. Any. Never in my life. I'm sure I will never live in a place where I need a gun to survive or to feel safe. Or to feel a man. An Alpha one. Want to feel a man with violence? Ok, you don't need a gun, have balls and go practice boxing or MMA. Is this Beta?

[Moma]

I agree exactly with qasx..etc.

Assman, I don't feel I need to read that book. I have hands on experience living in countries with lots of people. This feeling of entitlement to be strapped, I really gotta see.

Name another developed country NOT AT WAR where the people they need entitlement to carry guns like US.

I just don't understand how one can claim to be at peace and feel it's okay that civillians need to walk around with guns.

If this is the case, then you should be able to move to Venezuela and other dangerous countries because technically it's the same thing.

It's very easy to make a mistake with a gun. You can shake hands and let bygones be bygones with a man you punched up earlier but you cannot with one you blasted in the face.

And it takes a trained individual to do extensive damage with a punch. Usually more are needed.
Anyone can accidentally pop someone in the face with a gun.

I lived in London and some of the cats there are very nasty pieces of work. They stab a lot and if they could get their hands on guns like you do in America, believe they would be a lot more blasting going on.

The above poster put it nicely. How can a country not a war think that carrying guns is the answer to this?

[el mechanico]

Moma you're moving to Florida. We carry guns. I could go out and count but there's probably 5 of them in my shop right now. I'd rather nobody have guns but it's too late now. People need to know there's strong chance if you enter someones house you may get your head blown off. I took my guns out of my house because of my kid but before I used to sit at my bar drinking with a 12 gauge pump sitting right next to me waiting for any reason to use it.

[assman]

(07-23-2012 09:28 AM)Moma Wrote:  

I just don't understand how one can claim to be at peace and feel it's okay that civillians need to walk around with guns.

An armed society is a polite society. Go to any town where lawful gun ownership rates are very high and you will see this is true. Put Kennesaw, GA on your travel itinerary when you move down south - they require (easy to opt out though) that every head of household be armed. So the per capita gun ownership there is through the roof. Yet the streets are not flowing with blood. Disagreements don't end in gunsmoke.

Come down to my city, and I'll take you shooting, and maybe meet some of my gun owning friends. You'll see that none of these guys has a 'shoot first' mentality.

[j r]

(07-23-2012 09:44 AM)assman Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 09:28 AM)Moma Wrote:  

I just don't understand how one can claim to be at peace and feel it's okay that civillians need to walk around with guns.

An armed society is a polite society. Go to any town where lawful gun ownership rates are very high and you will see this is true. Put Kennesaw, GA on your travel itinerary when you move down south - they require (easy to opt out though) that every head of household be armed. So the per capita gun ownership there is through the roof. Yet the streets are not flowing with blood. Disagreements don't end in gunsmoke.

Come down to my city, and I'll take you shooting, and maybe meet some of my gun owning friends. You'll see that none of these guys has a 'shoot first' mentality.

People in rural America are not polite to each other because they have guns. It's the politeness that allows them to be peacefully armed in the first place. Likewise, there isn't less violent crime in other countries because of gun laws.

Make gun laws stricter, make them looser, it's not likely to have a significant effect on crime rates in either direction.

[Jalouse]

So why does the US have around 13,000 firearm murders per year which is an order of magnitude higher per capita than any other western nation?

Moma also makes a good point about travelling, how can any of you bear to travel if you're not allowed to pack a piece on the trip.

[Vicious]

(07-23-2012 07:11 AM)assman Wrote:  

Has everyone forgotten the Norway massacre? Norway has much stricter gun laws than the US and does not permit concealed carry, which made Breivik's kill spree a walk in the park for him. He took his damned sweet time killing 69 and wounding 110 others.

I usually stay out of gun control debates. But it's always especially embarassing when someone is using the Utöya massacre as an argument AGAINST gun control since it shows zero familiarity with the facts.

Just a couple off the top of my head.

*Breivik planned the entire event for a period of 5 years, he could have picked ANY venue, place or event.
*His arms where all legally obtained and registered. He TRIED TO OBTAIN ARMS ILLEGALLY AT FIRST IN NORWAY AND THE CZECH REPUBLIC BUT WAS UNSUCESSFUL. (oops)
*His bomb in Oslo was a diversion for the hit on Utöya, which made his police get-up all the more authorative and believable.
*Utöya is a youth camp, the youngest victim being 14 (arm kids to prevent gun related deaths anyone?)

[assman]

(07-23-2012 10:22 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

I usually stay out of gun control debates. But it's always especially embarassing when someone is using the Utöya massacre as an argument AGAINST gun control since it shows zero familiarity with the facts.

Just a couple off the top of my head.

*Breivik planned the entire event for a period of 5 years, he could have picked ANY venue, place or event.
*His arms where all legally obtained and registered. He TRIED TO OBTAIN ARMS ILLEGALLY AT FIRST IN NORWAY AND THE CZECH REPUBLIC BUT WAS UNSUCESSFUL. (oops)
*His bomb in Oslo was a diversion for the hit on Utöya, which made his police get-up all the more authorative and believable.
*Utöya is a youth camp, the youngest victim being 14 (arm kids to prevent gun related deaths anyone?)

Youth camps don't have adults on site?

As for his police get-up, I'm pretty sure people figured it out once he started shooting, but they were helpless to defend themselves as he leisurely strolled around that island killing people. Life is good for a shooter on a one-way range.

Oh, and thanks for pointing out the bomb. Let's relate this to Aurora - Holmes knew how to make explosives. Guess what - that's illegal, but of course Holmes didn't give a fuck about that law either. So if he can't purchase firearms, does anyone think he wouldn't come up with another plan? Like making a bunch of explosives and tossing them in the theater, possibly killing even more people than he did? A situation in which, once again, a concealed carry holder could have made all the difference were he not barred from having his gun on him in Aurora.

[Vicious]

(07-23-2012 10:43 AM)assman Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 10:22 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

I usually stay out of gun control debates. But it's always especially embarassing when someone is using the Utöya massacre as an argument AGAINST gun control since it shows zero familiarity with the facts.

Just a couple off the top of my head.

*Breivik planned the entire event for a period of 5 years, he could have picked ANY venue, place or event.
*His arms where all legally obtained and registered. He TRIED TO OBTAIN ARMS ILLEGALLY AT FIRST IN NORWAY AND THE CZECH REPUBLIC BUT WAS UNSUCESSFUL. (oops)
*His bomb in Oslo was a diversion for the hit on Utöya, which made his police get-up all the more authorative and believable.
*Utöya is a youth camp, the youngest victim being 14 (arm kids to prevent gun related deaths anyone?)

Youth camps don't have adults on site?

And due to the risk of extreme right wing mass murders all youth camp personnel should be armed? Or are you saying that due to one mass murderer an entire nation should arm itself? Could you possibly play any more into his agenda?

Quote:

As for his police get-up, I'm pretty sure people figured it out once he started shooting, but they were helpless to defend themselves as he leisurely strolled around that island killing people. Life is good for a shooter on a one-way range.

You keep showing your ignorance of the incident. He gathered instructors and personnel in a meeting room where he started

Quote:

Oh, and thanks for pointing out the bomb. Let's relate this to Aurora - Holmes knew how to make explosives. Guess what - that's illegal, but of course Holmes didn't give a fuck about that law either. So if he can't purchase firearms, does anyone think he wouldn't come up with another plan? Like making a bunch of explosives and tossing them in the theater, possibly killing even more people than he did?

Did you entirely miss the part about how Breivik could not acquire arms illegally but only legally? How does this relate to anything?

Evening if we disregard your non sequitur. Istill don't follow tour reasoning. By your logic making bombs legal would put the idea out of the heads if mass murders to produce bombs. You are clutching for straws here.

Quote:

A situation in which, once again, a concealed carry holder could have made all the difference were he not barred from having his gun on him in Aurora.

This concealed carry holder that you hold up as the wall against the tide of mass murders seems to be some kind of superhero. Given how common friendly Fire is among trained, armed forces a cinema full of strapped people is far more likely to just blow each other away in the confusion. Imagine 30 of these superhero opening fire at the same instance in the closed confines of a cinema. Nasty!

[OGNorCal707]

From what I've seen the guys who are the most into guns and feel the greatest need to own and carry a gun, are often the biggest pussies. These guys are small, weak men, who have little to no experience fighting, and need to have a gun to feel secure. One guy is 5 ft. 8 in. probably only 145 lbs, never been in a fight in his life, but oh no don't fuck with him, because he carries a loaded handgun every where. He's a real tough guy. LOL.

These guys would be better off lifting heavy 3 times a weak, getting 150 gram of protein a day, and taking up martial arts.

[Samseau]

To all the people who continuously cite America as the #1 in gun murders:


1. America is not #1. America actually keeps the best records, so they appear to have the highest, when in reality places in Africa, Mexico, South America, or Asia, have much higher homicide rates from guns.


2. The second reason America has so many gun murders is because America is the largest consumer of illegal drugs in the world. Drug lords the world over come to America to sell their shit, and this crime is where most gun related deaths come from.

It's not regular citizens blowing each other away on a regular basis. That doesn't happen here.

It's mostly criminals engaging in drug related activity, shooting each other since that's the only way to enforce contracts in the criminal underworld.




The entire "Ban guns and no one will be shot" is completely naive and ridiculous, it's basically closing the barn doors after the horses have already left.


Guns have been around in this country for over 400 years, banning guns now is about as absurd as Christian fundamentalists who want to ban all contraceptives and abortion (despite their already widespread use and availability) in order to bring back old Christian family values.

[OGNorCal707]

(07-23-2012 12:03 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

Quote:

A situation in which, once again, a concealed carry holder could have made all the difference were he not barred from having his gun on him in Aurora.

This concealed carry holder that you hold up as the wall against the tide of mass murders seems to be some kind of superhero. Given how common friendly Fire is among trained, armed forces a cinema full of strapped people is far more likely to just blow each other away in the confusion. Imagine 30 of these superhero opening fire at the same instance in the closed confines of a cinema. Nasty!

This completely debunks Assman's assertion, yeah a bunch of people in a dark movie theater shooting in all directions in mass chaos, that would really make a lot of sense. In that situation more people would have been killed by accidentally shooting someone in the crowd, while trying to shoot the gunman. Also, how likely is it a guy with a handgun is going to take down a dude in full body armor, pouring out rounds from an automatic weapon. It's just a completely irrational and illogical thinking.

[kosko]

(07-22-2012 08:52 PM)Jalouse Wrote:  

If you look at statistics the US has around 3 murders per 100,000 people which is around 13,000 firearm murders per year. Pretty much all other western nations are sub 1%. I can't think of any other western nation that have such lax gun laws as the US but perhaps there are?

If the US was to have similarly strict gun laws as other western nations bringing them down to 1% or less per hundred thousand this would result in around 8,000 less murders per year. Maybe you could argue that Americans just like to kill each other more than other nations and they would do it anyway regardless of having a gun.

Switzerland has the most relaxed gun laws on earth. Literally everybody there has a arm. When is the last time you have heard of shit go down over there? America's issue is a cultural issue not a gun issue, many other nations have guns but its the cannibalistic individualism that is weaved into American society which causes hostility and tempers to amp up when in other places they would be resolved in other ways. These types of situations are simply the 'pressure cooker' of America releasing steam and no amount of laws will stop it.

[assman]

(07-23-2012 12:03 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 10:43 AM)assman Wrote:  

Youth camps don't have adults on site?

And due to the risk of extreme right wing mass murders all youth camp personnel should be armed? Or are you saying that due to one mass murderer an entire nation should arm itself? Could you possibly play any more into his agenda?

I'm saying that people should have the right to defend themselves. If you don't want to be armed, that's fine. But if you mandate that no one can be armed, you leave the law abiding defenseless, while the criminals are still armed, whether it be with guns, knives, whatever.

(07-23-2012 12:03 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 10:43 AM)assman Wrote:  

As for his police get-up, I'm pretty sure people figured it out once he started shooting, but they were helpless to defend themselves as he leisurely strolled around that island killing people. Life is good for a shooter on a one-way range.

You keep showing your ignorance of the incident. He gathered instructors and personnel in a meeting room where he started

1. He didn't kill all the adults immediately; some were killed later on. 2. Even if you start shooting at a crowd of adults, you don't hit them all at once. This leaves time for someone to draw and fire.

"The mass shooting reportedly lasted for around an hour and a half, ending when a police special task force arrived and the gunman surrendered, despite having ammunition left." Homeboy was walking around for an hour and a half killing people. And as soon as someone showed up who would shoot back, he surrendered himself. Just like the Aurora shooter. Meet force with force, not hope. That is the only language criminals understand.

(07-23-2012 12:03 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 10:43 AM)assman Wrote:  

Oh, and thanks for pointing out the bomb. Let's relate this to Aurora - Holmes knew how to make explosives. Guess what - that's illegal, but of course Holmes didn't give a fuck about that law either. So if he can't purchase firearms, does anyone think he wouldn't come up with another plan? Like making a bunch of explosives and tossing them in the theater, possibly killing even more people than he did?

Evening if we disregard your non sequitur. Istill don't follow tour reasoning. By your logic making bombs legal would put the idea out of the heads if mass murders to produce bombs. You are clutching for straws here.

Totally missed my point. I'm not suggesting making bombs legal. I'm saying that laws don't matter to those who are bent on criminality. If Holmes couldn't have purchased a gun, he would have used explosives or something else to kill people.

(07-23-2012 12:03 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 10:43 AM)assman Wrote:  

A situation in which, once again, a concealed carry holder could have made all the difference were he not barred from having his gun on him in Aurora.

This concealed carry holder that you hold up as the wall against the tide of mass murders seems to be some kind of superhero. Given how common friendly Fire is among trained, armed forces a cinema full of strapped people is far more likely to just blow each other away in the confusion. Imagine 30 of these superhero opening fire at the same instance in the closed confines of a cinema. Nasty!

In pretty much every instance I've read about concealed carry holder shooting at a criminal, there was only one such person shooting. So the idea that 30 or even 3 concealed carry holders will be active shooters against a criminal is totally unrealistic.

But I know how it goes. Gun control advocates don't let actual data get in the way of their beliefs and feelings.

[assman]

(07-23-2012 12:35 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

This completely debunks Assman's assertion, yeah a bunch of people in a dark movie theater shooting in all directions in mass chaos, that would really make a lot of sense. In that situation more people would have been killed by accidentally shooting someone in the crowd, while trying to shoot the gunman. Also, how likely is it a guy with a handgun is going to take down a dude in full body armor, pouring out rounds from an automatic weapon. It's just a completely irrational and illogical thinking.

More media bullshit. He was wearing a tactical vest, not a ballistic vest. A tac vest is akin to a fishing vest - just in black or camo or some other 'tactical' color. And there were no automatic firearms involved.

I wish the media reporting about guns would come from someone who knows more about them than what he learned from watching movies.

Instead we get one of those wenches from The View talking about how the rifle Holmes used could be fired 100x in < 1 sec. LOL. I know some guys who shoot rifle in competition who would be very interested in learning how she does that.

[worldwidetraveler]

Good thing Moma is leaving Canada.

http://www.680news.com/news/local/articl...e-shooting

[Blackhawk]