[Basil Ransom]

(06-24-2012 11:09 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

I could never put my finger on this dynamic during my first year or two of college, but you've described it perfectly here.

I think it's a combination of things:

1. The girls are potential friends already yoked into the same social network.
2. These guys rarely bang strangers. It's like you kissing your first or second girl ever - the kiss is an accomplishment to you. Once you've done it 10, 50 times, it's nothing. So your threshold for success is much higher.
3. These guys like having female friends.
4. Plenty of guys feel a little guilt over intentional sport-fucking. It's cool to do it when you're all boozed-up. But to pursue it single-mindedly, without getting wasted - 'that's creepy dude.'

Seems a lot less common among black guys, compared to other guys.

Regarding #3, I appreciate being friends with a girl, but I find friendships with most American women draining. You crack jokes, she laughs, but there's no sex. If she can pull her weight conversationally, great. But usually, she can't, and I end up just feeling like a tool playing in to her attention whoring ways.

'Bang or Bust.'

Quote:

I'll go to Hooters once or twice a week, drink a couple of beers, and practice total hardcore asshole/ignore game on the waitresses. Since they are used to nothing but supplication and pervy looks from the usual clientele, it might be fun to see what responses I get. Maybe I'll even go suited down. Should be a real "hoot."

I wouldn't expect much. That's like playing aloof game on OKCupid. Creating value through scarcity doesn't work well when she's got a constant stream of new respectable dudes hitting on her. Unless you had obvious super high value to begin with. Just like how you wouldn't care if some 8 ignored you when you've got three more of 'em in the hopper.

[teh_skeeze]

(06-25-2012 12:44 AM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

I can relate to Athlone's story. I was getting a string of okcupid stinkers and made the mistake of asking a friend about his okc strategy and somehow that resulted into him "taking me under his wing", which I didn't mind humoring until we hit the bars and he started giving me "advice" within earshot of girls, at which point it became irritating. To top it off, here's the advice I got:

1. Always write a really long first message, you'll stand out by sending a three paragraph email instead of just tossing off a couple sentences.

2. Never use humor, you should be serious with girls online.

3. Always make sure to pay for their meal/drinks so they know you can take charge.

Definitely reinforced my theory that "naturals" don't know how they're doing it.

Anyone else feel like they got kicked in the balls reading this?

Anyway, I've been to Hooters several times with my dad (he would call it "Our favorite sports bar"). I hated it so much. The only saving grace was that they had the game on a giant ass TV. So while I'm staring at the tv eating my sub-par buffalo chicken sandwich and curly fries, he's drinking and oggling the sub-par ass (which he admits is sub-par). One time he even tooled me in front of the waitress by teasing me saying I wanted a balloon signed by her, and that my favorite color is green (it's red, his is green. projection?). For the record, I wasn't of drinking age yet. No way in hell that shit would fly today.

I never realized how beta my dad is around attractive women until recently. Be a sarcastic asshole with the fat ugly ones, and shrink with the real talent.

Back on topic, I overheard one of the waitresses that was serving a family of 4 say "I like the families more than the guys that come in here. The guys tip better, but the families are so much nicer."

I'm sure in this case "nicer" means "not obviously eye fucking me, but trying to act like you're not eye fucking me while running that shit you call game".

[Andreas]

So basically what we learn from this story is that beautiful women are the most powerful marketing tools ever used.

Who buys a crappy product twice? People buy into the stupid products that are excellently marketed and then they realize(most of the people) that they are low quality. They won't buy the same crappy product again (except when business men give them the illusion that they are buying something different).

Hooters managed to find a way to sell the same crappy product (their food) many times to customers without much effort into making new marketing strategies.

And the owner probably knows that most men have been conditioned from young age and when they marry that it's ok if you only just stare at beautiful women but not touch. You know, the "Stare but don't touch" rule they use in museums...

By the way....Hooters....Hookers...just saying

[Timoteo]

Yes, Hooters sells glorified fast food, like most chain restaurants. They had to package it differently, so yeah, they went with the sure-fire draw - hot chicks. Instead of targeting families, like most of these types of restaurants do, they decided to target it strictly to guys. Dudes don't need fine cuisine when they're watching the game or grabbing a quick lunch. They were so subtle in naming the place, calling it "Hooters," but putting an owl in the logo because going with the obvious, "Titties," would have been inappropriate...HA HA!

[soup]

I'd be curious to know more about the type of game that can run on hooters girls.

Maybe dress up all rockstar/hipster with some buds and go to Hooters as a joke. This is a neg on the waitresses, and would separate you from the betas.

[Belize King]

I haven't tried to game a Hooters girl. Probably been in one less than 5 times. I am more of a Buffalo Wildwings guy when I watch the Cowboys, boxing, or basketball. I don't think Wildwings girls have the inflated ego like the Hooters girl but they probably get hit on just as often. I play it cool, neg, and ask them where the party is at during the weekend. I've smashed two waitresses but that was in South Texas so I don't know if the same game would play anywhere else.

Interesting business model though. I wonder if I could pull this in Mexico. I didn't see this type of restaruant in Guadalajara. Sex sells in Mexico. Look at Univision, but GDL is pretty conservative. I would probably scout Monterrey and see how well they do there. If great, I would think about opening up a Hooters type and see if I could hit gold. GDL is ripe for it.

[Neo]

I share the same observations as the other posters. The guys who frequent these restaurants are the same guys who fantasize about women all day but take no action in actually trying to get laid.

I'm not sure what causes this dynamic, but I've met many guys who embodied the characteristics described above.

In the US many men seem to be content being outsiders and observers. They are completely obsessed about sports, music, and other inconsequential things, yet they make no effort to actually improve their lot. There's nothing wrong with liking these things at all, the issue arises when instead of improvement they live vicariously through those they admire. Instead of being inspired, they become stagnant.

The arrogance and ego of some of these guys is also ridiculous. I remember a few years back talking to this kid about how I was reading Bang and it was a book on picking up girls. He's like

"Come on dude, I never had to read a book to pick up girls that's lame."

"How many girls have you slept with?"

"Uhh, I don't know, but enough, I know exactly what I'm doing, look it's not that hard, you don't need a book."

"Ok, see that hot girl over there(I motioned across to the other side of the bar) if you wanted to talk to her what would you do? Actually better yet, go demonstrate what you would do since you claim to have all the answers."

"It doesn't work like that man."

"I know you're single and you told me you haven't been laid in a while, so why not go talk to her."

"I don't go up to them, they have to come to me."

"You're a moron."

Their ego and reality can't take a hit, so they live in a bubble where they think they have all the answers. In reality it's just a BS theory.

[Tuthmosis]

(06-27-2012 05:20 AM)Neo Wrote:  

"Come on dude, I never had to read a book to pick up girls that's lame."

"How many girls have you slept with?"

"Uhh, I don't know, but enough, I know exactly what I'm doing, look it's not that hard, you don't need a book."

"Ok, see that hot girl over there(I motioned across to the other side of the bar) if you wanted to talk to her what would you do? Actually better yet, go demonstrate what you would do since you claim to have all the answers."

"It doesn't work like that man."

"I know you're single and you told me you haven't been laid in a while, so why not go talk to her."

"I don't go up to them, they have to come to me."

Ugh. I loath bitch-ass dudes like this. Unfortunately, I know a few guys like this. Needless to say, I spend no time with them.

[Timoteo]

"I don't go up to them, they have to come to me."

Any non-famous guy that claims to be getting laid this way regularly is lying, and if he is, it's with fatties and fuglies, and various other forms of desperate chicks. Or he's banging hookers.

[JayMillz]

Watched this episode and it was pretty interesting.

[teh_skeeze]

I have a feeling that the manager in that video gets very little female attention outside of his job. He says "uber" for crying out loud. That just screams "I live in my mom's basement".

[Basil Ransom]

(07-15-2012 02:16 AM)teh_skeeze Wrote:  

I have a feeling that the manager in that video gets very little female attention outside of his job. He says "uber" for crying out loud. That just screams "I live in my mom's basement".

That's the beauty of it - if he weren't a Hooters manager he'd just be fucking fatties. But because he's running a Hooters, I bet he if he tried he'd get to fuck some of those waitresses. Even if it were one in twenty, it'd be a hell of a lot better than any other channel he can tap.

[thegmanifesto]

(07-15-2012 11:22 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

(07-15-2012 02:16 AM)teh_skeeze Wrote:  

I have a feeling that the manager in that video gets very little female attention outside of his job. He says "uber" for crying out loud. That just screams "I live in my mom's basement".

That's the beauty of it - if he weren't a Hooters manager he'd just be fucking fatties. But because he's running a Hooters, I bet he if he tried he'd get to fuck some of those waitresses. Even if it were one in twenty, it'd be a hell of a lot better than any other channel he can tap.

I watched the video for 2 seconds.

You see these types of weesh guys all across the service industry.

Weesh bouncers, strip club managers/bouncers, etc etc

[Basil Ransom]

thegmanifesto Wrote:

(07-15-2012 11:22 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

(07-15-2012 02:16 AM)teh_skeeze Wrote:  

I have a feeling that the manager in that video gets very little female attention outside of his job. He says "uber" for crying out loud. That just screams "I live in my mom's basement".

That's the beauty of it - if he weren't a Hooters manager he'd just be fucking fatties. But because he's running a Hooters, I bet he if he tried he'd get to fuck some of those waitresses. Even if it were one in twenty, it'd be a hell of a lot better than any other channel he can tap.

I watched the video for 2 seconds.

You see these types of weesh guys all across the service industry.

Weesh bouncers, strip club managers/bouncers, etc etc

Yeah. People like to beat up on corporate executives and all, and there's definitely merit to that. Just as often though, there's some prick just an inch above the bottom of the dung heap, who makes life a living hell for everyone underneath him. This guy is a classic example of that.

One of the worst things about working menial jobs is that odds are good that your boss is a dumb fuck who thinks you are even dumber, and will treat you like shit because he can. Because work is the only place he feels any sense of power - at home, his wife has his balls in a vise, his kids only come to him for money. Girls are repulsed by him because he's a charmless fat fuck. If you ever ask why you have to do something in order to learn something, he'll get all insecure and berate you for 'questioning his authority'.

[thegmanifesto]

(07-15-2012 12:34 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

thegmanifesto Wrote:

(07-15-2012 11:22 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

(07-15-2012 02:16 AM)teh_skeeze Wrote:  

I have a feeling that the manager in that video gets very little female attention outside of his job. He says "uber" for crying out loud. That just screams "I live in my mom's basement".

That's the beauty of it - if he weren't a Hooters manager he'd just be fucking fatties. But because he's running a Hooters, I bet he if he tried he'd get to fuck some of those waitresses. Even if it were one in twenty, it'd be a hell of a lot better than any other channel he can tap.

I watched the video for 2 seconds.

You see these types of weesh guys all across the service industry.

Weesh bouncers, strip club managers/bouncers, etc etc

Yeah. People like to beat up on corporate executives and all, and there's definitely merit to that. Just as often though, there's some prick just an inch above the bottom of the dung heap, who makes life a living hell for everyone underneath him. This guy is a classic example of that.

One of the worst things about working menial jobs is that odds are good that your boss is a dumb fuck who thinks you are even dumber, and will treat you like shit because he can. Because work is the only place he feels any sense of power - at home, his wife has his balls in a vise, his kids only come to him for money. Girls are repulsed by him because he's a charmless fat fuck. If you ever ask why you have to do something in order to learn something, he'll get all insecure and berate you for 'questioning his authority'.

Yeah, I can admit that I was the all time worst employee ever of any job I ever held.

I always hated my bosses (except a few), and dissed them constantly.

[Samseau]

(07-14-2012 06:35 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

Watched this episode and it was pretty interesting.

Holy fuck that was hilarious

[teh_skeeze]

I think he's still fucking fatties despite working at Hooters. It's not like this guy is a producer or CEO. He isn't able to offer enough money and doesn't have the fame to be able to pull it off. He comes off as a tryhard.

From what I understand, this guy is par for the course when it comes to lower management at Hooters. The girls only work the job because they make good tips.

[Tex Pro]

(07-15-2012 02:12 PM)teh_skeeze Wrote:  

I think he's still fucking fatties despite working at Hooters. It's not like this guy is a producer or CEO. He isn't able to offer enough money and doesn't have the fame to be able to pull it off. He comes off as a tryhard.

From what I understand, this guy is par for the course when it comes to lower management at Hooters. The girls only work the job because they make good tips.

I saw this episode of Undercover Bosses, and I too think he wasn't getting any action from the Hooters girls. I say "wasn't" because he was fired/let go at the end of the episode due to the antics he pulled when the undercover boss was there. The girls working there seemed repulsed by him and the dude seemed to mainly get off on making the girls do humiliating shit. He called them "primadonnas" or something like that during the episode.

The only way I would have seen this dude getting laid by the chicks there is if he had extored them in some way, like telling them "fuck me or I will fire you." Of course, this is high risk strategy since eventually one of the girls would file a sexual harrassment suit.

[ccurtis189]

(06-24-2012 06:02 PM)houston Wrote:  

Every guy I've known who loves these shitty food spots have no game at all. I guess they feel good when the girls flirt with them and show off their body. At least go to a titty bar if you want that.

In Florida they have a restaurant called Winghouse, same setup as Hooters. I come for the Buffalo Chicken sandwich, the babes are just a plus. But they get the same tip I would give any other server at any other establishment.

[El Rey]

The running theme in this thread is that most American guys are whack as hell. Think about the guys in your age range in your city. At least for young guys, I very rarely meet other American guys that are interesting or 'cool'. I have my inner circle of guys who all know about game and are always strategizing new ways to find and get snatch. Most other young guys are clowns: hipsters, SWPL's, bro's, Tapout/Afflication white trash, etc.

I'm glad that the forum is a community for us like-minded guys.

[brianmark]

(06-24-2012 07:27 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(06-24-2012 06:25 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

These spots are like strip clubs, movies with hot chicks (as basil points out), and anything else that transparently and cynically manipulates beta-males' satisfaction with sexual placebos over the challenges, and pleasures, of real sex.

Yeah, that's why you can't trust the opinions or advice of lots of guys.

Success for You: a Bang. Blowjob at a bare minimum.

Success for Them: "she smiled at me." "She told her friend I'm cute." "She gave me her number." "We hugged." "She let me buy her a drink." "She said yes to dinner." Then they'll relay the shitty game that got them those results, as if it were the philosopher's stone of pussy hunting.

I'll listen to them talk and I'll say, "Yeah, but *did you bang her*?" Out come the excuses, the rationalizations, even accusing me of being crass. "Dude, why are you so obsessed with sex?"

I hear the same thing all the time from my "friends", "your obsessed with sex". They hate it when you bring them back to reality that they are actually not getting any!

[brianmark]

(06-24-2012 11:09 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(06-24-2012 07:27 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Yeah, that's why you can't trust the opinions or advice of lots of guys.

Success for You: a Bang. Blowjob at a bare minimum.

Success for Them: "she smiled at me." "She told her friend I'm cute." "She gave me her number." "We hugged." "She let me buy her a drink." "She said yes to dinner." Then they'll relay the shitty game that got them those results, as if it were the philosopher's stone of pussy hunting.

I'll listen to them talk and I'll say, "Yeah, but *did you bang her*?" Out come the excuses, the rationalizations, even accusing me of being crass. "Dude, why are you so obsessed with sex?"

Being a player is humbling like that. You know that it's the bang that counts. All the other stuff that would pump a guy's ego, you give it a jaded look, and say "whatever, we'll see."

I could never put my finger on this dynamic during my first year or two of college, but you've described it perfectly here.

I recall once having a conversation with a fraternity brother and a teammate that went almost exactly along these lines. He was a good guy, gal-pal to many girls and most certainly an uber-beta, but very well known and liked by many on campus (He DJ'ed quite a bit at local frat parties).

We're leaving the frat when he goes into his advice giving mode, something he liked to do.
"See, Athlone, it isn't that hard to succeed with girls." He says. "Its as simple as this. Here's how I do it".
He began to motion with his hands as we walked, as though he were approaching someone.

"I go up to her. I say hi. I grab her hand, and then..." his voice kind of lowered and softened here, almost the way it does when someone is speaking about some past, deep, intimate, and profound memory. "...we dance."
By this time we're still walking, and he's making a little motion with his body with his eyes closed and head down as though he were actually dancing slowly with some girl. After 3-5 seconds I guessed he was done, so I interrupted his reverie fairly bluntly.

"Yeah, dude, but do you fuck them?" (actually exactly what I said, no paraphrase/copy here)

"What do you mean "do I fuck them?"

"You dance with them, but do you ever fuck them?"
It was an honest question at the time, since I'd recently learned from peers that this guy had a rep for having tons of female friends (again, a very well-known guy/campus DJ, and not a gay one either), but almost never getting laid. I was curious. It was (and still is) downright normal for guys on campus, even apparently high-status ones, to end up in such a situation for most of their time there, though most knew fewer girls than this dude. They got friendzoned by a half-dozen or perhaps a dozen girls with whom they were acquainted, not the 50-60+ this guy knew.

"No, Athlone, that isn't the point!"
"How is it not the point?"
At this point, he simply gives me his patented "you've-got-a-lot-to-learn" look, complete with an abundance of head-shaking to signal disappointment. He then moved on, muttering "Athlone, Athlone, Athlone..." before trailing off towards his dorm while I continued to mine in another direction. I'd have this kind of conversation several times that year.

I was far from alpha at this stage in my life (late freshman year) due to naivete, inexperience, "nice guy"isms and desperation. At the same time, I can see now that in spite of all of that I was one of the only guys around who held myself to the type of standard Basil outlined above (BJ/sex is success, smile/hug are not). Of all the 100+ D1 Football players I could call "teammate" at the time, only a handful really appeared to do the same. Most were, in hindsight, of a similar mind to this guy.
I was still prone to oneitis with some girls at this time and this standard went away when that hit (it'd have me doing dinner dates and being ok with them for a while), but generally when I went out on a normal weekend I had no intention of being ok with a hug or platonic dance the way my peers all were. Success required far more than that.

It was odd, because my peers would regularly ridicule me in groups (to the point of it becoming a running frat joke) for holding this type of mentality and "caring too much", using pretty much exactly the same language outlined above ("dude, why are you so obessed with sex?")? Back then, this left me questioning myself. Over time, I began to see that, while I was no Casanova back then and had a lot of bad habits, there wasn't much more to be said about them either.

In fact, there isn't much to be said about 85% of dudes out there when it comes to game, even the ones who look the part of the high-status guy.

I really enjoyed your story. I was in a frat with 85 guys. I had the worse reputation of any of the guys. In other words, I was the guy that would most likely actually want sex from a girl that went out with me. Most of the guys were just happy to get a date or being seen with a girl. The idea that frats are sexual orgies is a fucking joke! Frats are clicks for beta guys!

[Wool Suit]

(06-25-2012 11:15 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

From my observation, guys who go to Hooters are either office betas or sports fan rubes, who are thrilled to have an attractive girl even speak to them.

This.

Last time I went to a Hooters, circa 2005, I had to leave early because I was getting physically revolted by the behavior of the men there. They were so damn excited to have a college student in a skimpy outfit talk to them they would squirm like excited piglets at the slop tray. It was herb/beta Mecca.

The final straw was when one of the girls offered to take a photo with me. I declined, and all these fucking Fight Clubesque middle-managers and AFCs about shit their pants. "DUDE, she was so hot"; "DUDE, she wanted your digits"; etc., etc.

Revolting to see how far men have sunk as a gender. Creeped me out.

[brianmark]

(06-25-2012 07:24 AM)Scott Wrote:  

This thread is golden.

I think when the term 'AFC' was first coined it was to refer to pretty much anyone who doesn't get laid frequently, gets oneitus and so on - from your 90%-of-all-males beta to the omega with no life aside from wanking to anime. I think as our knowledge of Game has grown, members of this forum in particular have this... savviness about the workings of other men, probably because we're all actually fairly popular with other guys - unlike the traditional 'PUA' who ends up having to style himself as a loner.

This also means that, as demonstrated above, our own experience of witnessing other guys has also led for us to pick up on the patterns as highlighted by Athlone, Basil and Tuth in this thread.

We acknowledge that your typical beta isn't just the guy you see at the bar, holding his drink up to his chest and nervously avoiding eye contact with anyone; he's also the guy who thinks that a Hooters girl asking for his order (or whatever the fuck they do) is classed as 'flirting'. On the flip side, he's also the guy who won't even go for the kiss because he rationalises it as he doesn't want to look 'sex-obsessed'. These are the same guys who would have been classed as AFCs a decade ago, but now it's more like they're... Male Hamsters - backwards rationalising everything to fool themselves that they have Game. Self-deception at its finest.

99% of the guys are AFC or betas. I know a tons of them. They hate alphas. They expect you/alphas to go to parties or social events and not hit on girls there, because they've spent years building rapport with these girls. Honestly they are jealous of you and will talk about you behind your back! These guys are not innocent bystanders thay are facilitators to women being asexual!

[Alpha Hunter Zero]

I dont understand how all this isnt common knowledge to guys, common sense even. Everyone knows that waiters, or waitresses in this case, pretty much work for tips because they dont make much salary wise. For the majority of patrons the nicer the server is to them, the higher their tips, usually. Now add to that skimpy and scantily clad chicks who give loads of attention and pretend to actually like you in a restaurant that is catered towards drooling betas, you can be pretty sure a high tip is in order. This is basic psychology 101 and most guys cant even catch on to that. I can relate w/all the examples previously posted because I have a family member who practically thins out his wallet every time he goes to hooters, despite my advice to him. I dont know, maybe being red-pill had a greater effect on me than I thought.