[MikeCF]

(06-21-2012 05:39 PM)Stitch Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 05:32 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Once you've seen rather than merely read about the desperation of marriage and divorce, it's hard to be anything but anti-family.

And once you've experienced it and had a 20-year pension chopped in half because the woman you paid the way through school for decided she wanted to sleep with other guys, it's even harder.

I've seen it all.

It's shitty.

That's why I warn guys away from it.

[Vicious]

(06-21-2012 06:38 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

No quality girl is going to have a non-marriage-based LTR situation.

Unless by LTR you mean a year or so with a woman.

LTR to me means several years.

What you are saying is that you believe no quality girl is going to have a non-marriage-based LTR situation with you. Because there are plenty of great people everywhere that have these kinds of relationship.

Do you live in the deep south? You need to get out of your box. Whether this is something merely in your head or is a social expectation of the cultural or geographic location you're in. No matter what, you have to get away from where this brainwashing has occurred that has led you to believe what you just wrote (I've seen what small fundamental communities can do to people). That is, remove yourself physically.

Relationships and even more so marriages are social constructs. People have existed and prospered just fine for thousands of years without them. So your protest seems like the almost unconscious reaction triggered by a religious upbringing or politically tinted one. Faiths and governments are the kinds of institutions that profit from defining what rules apply to how people relate to one another. Of course these definitions are only as true as people believe them to be.

Many women will naturally have all kinds of fairy tales in their head when getting involved with someone. It's your job to be the strong lead that sets the frame on the relationship and what it means for you both. This is not something you can do after a year or a couple of months. It's the same mechanic that makes introducing threesomes in an existing relationship nigh on impossible, you have to be the man that sets the rules from the get go.

You have to be confident in yourself to the degree that your confidence in your relation overpowers any doubt she might have that seeps in from the outside world.

[MikeCF]

(06-21-2012 07:31 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 06:38 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

No quality girl is going to have a non-marriage-based LTR situation.

Unless by LTR you mean a year or so with a woman.

LTR to me means several years.

What you are saying is that you believe no quality girl is going to have a non-marriage-based LTR situation with you. Because there are plenty of great people everywhere that have these kinds of relationship.

Do you live in the deep south? You need to get out of your box. Whether this is something merely in your head or is a social expectation of the cultural or geographic location you're in. No matter what, you have to get away from where this brainwashing has occurred that has led you to believe what you just wrote (I've seen what small fundamental communities can do to people). That is, remove yourself physically.

Relationships and even more so marriages are social constructs. People have existed and prospered just fine for thousands of years without them. So your protest seems like the almost unconscious reaction triggered by a religious upbringing or politically tinted one. Faiths and governments are the kinds of institutions that profit from defining what rules apply to how people relate to one another. Of course these definitions are only as true as people believe them to be.

Many women will naturally have all kinds of fairy tales in their head when getting involved with someone. It's your job to be the strong lead that sets the frame on the relationship and what it means for you both. This is not something you can do after a year or a couple of months. It's the same mechanic that makes introducing threesomes in an existing relationship nigh on impossible, you have to be the man that sets the rules from the get go.

You have to be confident in yourself to the degree that your confidence in your relation overpowers any doubt she might have that seeps in from the outside world.

Thanks for the Undergrad 101 lecture on post-modernism.

You must be really smart and well-educated.

Does your library contain many leather-bound books?

[snoop]

(06-21-2012 05:32 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 10:20 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

Why is there a bunch of young guys in this thread saying that 35+ guys shouldn't consider LTRs no matter what? At that age you will have a completely different set of experiences and viewpoint on life.

Yeah, but the time you are 35, you've seen several friends (and maybe yourself) live awful marriages, become zombies with bratty kids, and get divorce raped.

I was far more in favor of marriage in my 20s than 30s.

Once you've seen rather than merely read about the desperation of marriage and divorce, it's hard to be anything but anti-family.

I'm the opposite, I am more in favor of it now than when I was in my 20s, but I've also seen mostly the opposite of what you said. Most of my friends still have good marriages, and as a whole I think I know more people with good ones than failed ones. And of the failed ones many were cordial and weren't crushing failures that turned into court battles.

I think a big part of this is gonna come down to things like where you grew up, your family structure growing up, your personal feelings toward pair bonding, etc.

[Hooligan Harry]

I dont know many women who dont want a ring on the finger when they clock that whale, but the social status attached to marriage for women is so high that they will settle for less when they have to. There is no common sense to it and they are never going to be rational about it.

They may say this is a new age, but its anything but that. Social validation that comes with marriage is fucking crucial to women.

Prom - social validation
Graduate high school
College - fuck lots - social validation
Career - Fuck lots on the way to being CEO that they are destined to be - social validation
Early 30's - Baby rabies hit, career not going to well and boring, needs marriage for further social validation
Houses to nest - soccer mom social validation
40's - Hates husband because still not happy and he ruined her life, gets her tits done, goes on the prowl with divorced mates after raping husband - social validation.

I would like to have a family, but I think its impossible in the west these days. Even if you do find a decent woman, raising kids in what has become a gender clusterfuck would be irresponsible considering what I believe.

[Stitch]

Having done my part to warn against the legal institution of marriage, I do want to say that I'm all for LTRs; I've been seeing the same girl for about a year now, and honestly I still really enjoy it (it's helped somewhat by the fact that we only see each other a couple days a week). I also have a really good friend who recently added benefits, and we get along so well I could see that lasting a very long time indeed (not what most people mean when they say LTR, but it's a relationship, and it's going to last a long term, so hey).

It's when she can lay claim to YOUR income and YOUR material possessions that it's crap. Otherwise, aside from the confidence that comes with repeated practice approaching and closing when you don't have one, I'm a fan of LTRs.

[kazz]

(06-21-2012 08:26 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Where in Aus Kazz?

The Capital Harrry = How about you?

[Hooligan Harry]

Perth

Christ, Canberra? The only thing that came out of there was The Brumbies and higher taxes

[Hooligan Harry]

(06-22-2012 12:42 AM)Stitch Wrote:  

Having done my part to warn against the legal institution of marriage, I do want to say that I'm all for LTRs; I've been seeing the same girl for about a year now, and honestly I still really enjoy it (it's helped somewhat by the fact that we only see each other a couple days a week). I also have a really good friend who recently added benefits, and we get along so well I could see that lasting a very long time indeed (not what most people mean when they say LTR, but it's a relationship, and it's going to last a long term, so hey).

It's when she can lay claim to YOUR income and YOUR material possessions that it's crap. Otherwise, aside from the confidence that comes with repeated practice approaching and closing when you don't have one, I'm a fan of LTRs.

Common Law marriage bro.

In Aus, 6 months living together and she is classified as common law wife. The longer you stay together in your "de facto" relationship, the greater the claim she has to your property and even future support if she can prove that her lifestyle will be affected badly. Marriage rates are declining rapidly in Australia, so this was the response to it.

Its something you are seeing of more and more now. You dont even need to get married, all she needs to to show is relationship status and dependence. A bit harder without the marriage contract, but if you think forgoing marriage is going to keep you out of court when they decide to take you through it, you are dreaming.

Maybe not common in the USA yet, but its coming. Count on it!

[Stitch]

No, it definitely exists (here too). Usually here the dependence bit is somewhat more clear--ie cohabitation for six months, or what have you. Dating for extended periods while clearly maintaining two independent residences in two different cities is relatively safe.

Relatively.

It's pretty fucked up.

[Deluge]

(06-22-2012 01:02 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Maybe not common in the USA yet, but its coming. Count on it!

Common law marriage is actually on the decline in the United States. A couple states have gotten rid of it in the last few years and no new states have enacted it.

Common law marriage is only available in: Alabama, Colorado, D.C, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, New Hampshire (only for inheritance), Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas and Utah.

[Vicious]

(06-21-2012 07:44 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 07:31 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 06:38 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

No quality girl is going to have a non-marriage-based LTR situation.

Unless by LTR you mean a year or so with a woman.

LTR to me means several years.

What you are saying is that you believe no quality girl is going to have a non-marriage-based LTR situation with you. Because there are plenty of great people everywhere that have these kinds of relationship.

Do you live in the deep south? You need to get out of your box. Whether this is something merely in your head or is a social expectation of the cultural or geographic location you're in. No matter what, you have to get away from where this brainwashing has occurred that has led you to believe what you just wrote (I've seen what small fundamental communities can do to people). That is, remove yourself physically.

Relationships and even more so marriages are social constructs. People have existed and prospered just fine for thousands of years without them. So your protest seems like the almost unconscious reaction triggered by a religious upbringing or politically tinted one. Faiths and governments are the kinds of institutions that profit from defining what rules apply to how people relate to one another. Of course these definitions are only as true as people believe them to be.

Many women will naturally have all kinds of fairy tales in their head when getting involved with someone. It's your job to be the strong lead that sets the frame on the relationship and what it means for you both. This is not something you can do after a year or a couple of months. It's the same mechanic that makes introducing threesomes in an existing relationship nigh on impossible, you have to be the man that sets the rules from the get go.

You have to be confident in yourself to the degree that your confidence in your relation overpowers any doubt she might have that seeps in from the outside world.

Thanks for the Undergrad 101 lecture on post-modernism.

You must be really smart and well-educated.

Does your library contain many leather-bound books?

I'm not trying to assert some superiority over you by greater experience or age so there's no need to be so defensive.

Looking at your posts in this thread I see that you perfectly know what I'm talking about --> Even if your pimp hand is strong, you'll still have to use it. So your real problem is that you don't want to expend the effort it takes to manage a relationship.

Personally I've gotten into relationships at the point when I found I was expending far less energy in keeping them straight than when I was recruiting new talent. So obviously we are seeing different kind of women. Despite your assertion about "quality girls" it seems your experience is from women that require a lot of maintenance and create drama.

Is it the American(ized) woman that is the real problem in this again? Because at the times when I've made myself open to a relationship there's been plenty of girls available that have actually wanted the mutual experience to be central rather than their validation or expectations of being pampered.

Speaking plainly I'm just not operating out of the same map where disappointments and drama has been the reference.

[MikeCF]

(06-22-2012 12:42 AM)Stitch Wrote:  

Having done my part to warn against the legal institution of marriage, I do want to say that I'm all for LTRs; I've been seeing the same girl for about a year now, and honestly I still really enjoy it (it's helped somewhat by the fact that we only see each other a couple days a week). I also have a really good friend who recently added benefits, and we get along so well I could see that lasting a very long time indeed (not what most people mean when they say LTR, but it's a relationship, and it's going to last a long term, so hey).

It's when she can lay claim to YOUR income and YOUR material possessions that it's crap. Otherwise, aside from the confidence that comes with repeated practice approaching and closing when you don't have one, I'm a fan of LTRs.

Do you guys consider a 1 year relationship as a LTR?

My longest relationship was almost a decade.

A year...man, everything is still great. She's on her best behavior. Oxytocin is strong. Pair bonding hormones are going to drug you until 2.5 years in.

To me an LTR is when shit gets real. You start caring about her credit (because you're going to be a team). Her problems become your problems, and likewise, she is expected to have your back in a serious way.

I.e., if she or you got cancer, the other person would be expected to remain with you.

So I think we're operating under a different definition of LTR.

One year is just a blip in your life.

Five years...Now we're talking about an LTR.

If you're 35 and get into a LTR, you're 40 before it's over. Despite what some say, the game is much harder at 40 than 35. So you're actually giving something up to be in a relationship.

A year, on the other hand, isn't shit.

[MikeCF]

(06-22-2012 02:34 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

Personally I've gotten into relationships at the point when I found I was expending far less energy in keeping them straight than when I was recruiting new talent. So obviously we are seeing different kind of women. Despite your assertion about "quality girls" it seems your experience is from women that require a lot of maintenance and create drama.

Sounds more like a fling than an LTR.

In a LTR, there are shared resources and sacrifices. Your life changes as you join another person in a quest towards mutual goals and aspirations. A LTR involves substantial give-and-take.

The higher quality female, the more she'll demand and the more you'll need to push back. This is basic. It's also perfectly acceptable and is not behavior endemic to women.

If you're a guy with his shit together, you won't hang out with loser guys or mooches. You'll have high expectations for your friends. If a friend is a dead beat or whatever, you cut him off. Virtue attracts virtue. Steel sharpens steel. Women in relationships are the same way.

There is no guy here in a LTR with a PhD Russian supermodel that he refuses to marry, and she just stays home while he goes out and gets strange pussy. It simply doesn't happen.

Even Jay-Z had to marry Beyonce.

In all relationships, people will assert their will. The higher your value, the stronger your will.

If a girl is a 9 with family wealth, intelligence, and a great personality, then you're simply not going to fuck other chicks and refuse to marry her - at least not for any appreciable amount of time.

Claiming otherwise is bravado.

[Roosh]

Quote:

Thanks for the Undergrad 101 lecture on post-modernism.

You must be really smart and well-educated.

Does your library contain many leather-bound books?

It's fine to disagree but chill with the insults, especially since Vicious is being civil.

[MikeCF]

(06-22-2012 07:15 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

Thanks for the Undergrad 101 lecture on post-modernism.

You must be really smart and well-educated.

Does your library contain many leather-bound books?

It's fine to disagree but chill with the insults, especially since Vicious is being civil.

Asking a guy, "Do you live in the deep south?" and telling him, "You need to get out of your box" is insulting. Then Vicious suggested that I need to "get away from where this brainwashing has occurred," and intimates that I belonged to a "small fundamental community."

You seem to have very sensitive ears for some tone, for example a more direct style triggers something in you.

If you say that that I'm uncivil and the above is not, then you're tone deaf to the passive-aggressive form of incivility.

No one has to ever wonder my position because I do not cowardly give myself wiggle room. I am direct and always stand by and defend my assertions.

I write and talk like a man.

The guy's remarks were catty, so I called him out on that.

He could have made his point without passive-aggressively suggesting that I'm a brain-washed redneck from the Deep South.

Read his comment again. You'll see that he made the accusation. He just did so passive-aggressively, so that when called out on it, he could say, "Oh, that's not what I meant! I was asking a question. You're overreacting."

[MrLemon]

Personally I got married and had kids, because in my mid-30s I had pretty much a ton of adventures, travel, girls, etc, but it was getting pretty shallow. "Like butter scraped over too much bread" as Bilbo said.

I had a number of 50-yr old single men friends who were financially set, but still really miserable and lonely. But I also had friends who had gotten royally fucked by uber-shithead american wives.

So what was the solution? I made the effort find American women who weren't ruined by femnazi culture. There are always a few out there.

Now with 2 kids, and I would give my life 10X over to protect them because they are everything that is good in my universe. That feeling cannot be explained and is such a rare honor, it fills me with joy.

My marriage ok, not perfect, but wife is a good and decent woman and a great mother, and treats me with respect (so far).

[assman]

(06-22-2012 12:57 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

Now with 2 kids, and I would give my life 10X over to protect them because they are everything that is good in my universe. That feeling cannot be explained and is such a rare honor, it fills me with joy.

Every father I know feels similarly. I'd like to get there someday. I'll bang a chick and after the nut, I'll think "WTF am I doing this for?". It all seems sort of pointless after a while. But after a couple of days, that old familiar hunger for strange kicks in.

How does a married guy get over that? Just accept it and bang chicks on the side?

[Lothario]

(06-22-2012 01:09 PM)assman Wrote:  

(06-22-2012 12:57 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

Now with 2 kids, and I would give my life 10X over to protect them because they are everything that is good in my universe. That feeling cannot be explained and is such a rare honor, it fills me with joy.

Every father I know feels similarly. I'd like to get there someday. I'll bang a chick and after the nut, I'll think "WTF am I doing this for?". It all seems sort of pointless after a while. But after a couple of days, that old familiar hunger for strange kicks in.

How does a married guy get over that? Just accept it and bang chicks on the side?

Yes.......... the secret to a successful marriage is an Affair

Assman There is no good way to get over it, Game Keeps you alive or you are dead.......

[MrLemon]

(06-22-2012 01:09 PM)assman Wrote:  

(06-22-2012 12:57 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

Now with 2 kids, and I would give my life 10X over to protect them because they are everything that is good in my universe. That feeling cannot be explained and is such a rare honor, it fills me with joy.

Every father I know feels similarly. I'd like to get there someday. I'll bang a chick and after the nut, I'll think "WTF am I doing this for?". It all seems sort of pointless after a while. But after a couple of days, that old familiar hunger for strange kicks in.

How does a married guy get over that? Just accept it and bang chicks on the side?

After a while the need for strange diminishes somewhat.

And, the easy availability of porn/cam girls is a married man's great salvation. As technology improves, it will be possible to have virtual girlfriends who are close enough to the real thing, yet no risk whatsoever.

The key thing is to wait till you're older and to have money in the bank. Money is the key to all of it.

My 2 cents (not counting inflation)

[Timoteo]

(06-22-2012 01:41 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

(06-22-2012 01:09 PM)assman Wrote:  

(06-22-2012 12:57 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

Now with 2 kids, and I would give my life 10X over to protect them because they are everything that is good in my universe. That feeling cannot be explained and is such a rare honor, it fills me with joy.

Every father I know feels similarly. I'd like to get there someday. I'll bang a chick and after the nut, I'll think "WTF am I doing this for?". It all seems sort of pointless after a while. But after a couple of days, that old familiar hunger for strange kicks in.

How does a married guy get over that? Just accept it and bang chicks on the side?

After a while the need for strange diminishes somewhat.

And, the easy availability of porn/cam girls is a married man's great salvation. As technology improves, it will be possible to have virtual girlfriends who are close enough to the real thing, yet no risk whatsoever.

The key thing is to wait till you're older and to have money in the bank. Money is the key to all of it.

My 2 cents (not counting inflation)

Not true. Women are ALREADY feeling threatened by internet porn. They don't see it as harmless. They think ANYTHING that gets your attention to this extent steals you from them, and that they can't measure up.

[snoop]

(06-22-2012 03:17 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

(06-22-2012 01:41 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

(06-22-2012 01:09 PM)assman Wrote:  

(06-22-2012 12:57 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

Now with 2 kids, and I would give my life 10X over to protect them because they are everything that is good in my universe. That feeling cannot be explained and is such a rare honor, it fills me with joy.

Every father I know feels similarly. I'd like to get there someday. I'll bang a chick and after the nut, I'll think "WTF am I doing this for?". It all seems sort of pointless after a while. But after a couple of days, that old familiar hunger for strange kicks in.

How does a married guy get over that? Just accept it and bang chicks on the side?

After a while the need for strange diminishes somewhat.

And, the easy availability of porn/cam girls is a married man's great salvation. As technology improves, it will be possible to have virtual girlfriends who are close enough to the real thing, yet no risk whatsoever.

The key thing is to wait till you're older and to have money in the bank. Money is the key to all of it.

My 2 cents (not counting inflation)

Not true. Women are ALREADY feeling threatened by internet porn. They don't see it as harmless. They think ANYTHING that gets your attention to this extent steals you from them, and that they can't measure up.

Sounds like you aren't hanging around the right women for watching porn then. Most women I know don't care much if at all.

[Vicious]

(06-22-2012 12:39 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Asking a guy, "Do you live in the deep south?" and telling him, "You need to get out of your box" is insulting. Then Vicious suggested that I need to "get away from where this brainwashing has occurred," and intimates that I belonged to a "small fundamental community."

Internet dick wagging is the least of my intentions.

If you state absolutely that all "quality girls" (a subjective definition to begin with) will never get into an LTR that is not marriage then you are in a box. If you refuse to acknowledge that there are people in the world that have long lasting relationships outside the bounds of marriage then you are in a box. This is not an insult. It's a factual statement.

I sincerely asked about the south because I've lived a year of my life in a southern shithole and I know how toxic that environment can be. You haven't answered whether you are from the south and from your profile I can't see if you have been exposing yourself to any different cultures.

Quote:

I write and talk like a man.

Which will keep you reacting in a predetermined manner to any stimuli.

Or in plain speak, your idea of what a "man" is keeps you from picking up anything new. You're stuck.

Now you can react in a predictable way and give some snarky "manly" reply. Or you can lose the ego and allow the possibility that your rigid position will not hold when applied to a global scale.

[WestIndianArchie]

Can you so called Alpha males stop beating your chests in my post and take that shit to inbox?

I can't figure out why everyone here always wants to 1-up the next dude.

That's what they, the wildebeests, want.

They want us to squabble amongst ourselves and build these deep divisions so that we can't get what we want.

Sex and companionship on OUR terms.

(06-22-2012 07:18 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(06-22-2012 12:39 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Asking a guy, "Do you live in the deep south?" and telling him, "You need to get out of your box" is insulting. Then Vicious suggested that I need to "get away from where this brainwashing has occurred," and intimates that I belonged to a "small fundamental community."

Internet dick wagging is the least of my intentions.

If you state absolutely that all "quality girls" (a subjective definition to begin with) will never get into an LTR that is not marriage then you are in a box. If you refuse to acknowledge that there are people in the world that have long lasting relationships outside the bounds of marriage then you are in a box. This is not an insult. It's a factual statement.

I sincerely asked about the south because I've lived a year of my life in a southern shithole and I know how toxic that environment can be. You haven't answered whether you are from the south and from your profile I can't see if you have been exposing yourself to any different cultures.

Quote:

I write and talk like a man.

Which will keep you reacting in a predetermined manner to any stimuli.

Or in plain speak, your idea of what a "man" is keeps you from picking up anything new. You're stuck.

Now you can react in a predictable way and give some snarky "manly" reply. Or you can lose the ego and allow the possibility that your rigid position will not hold when applied to a global scale.

[Screwston]

(06-22-2012 07:18 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

I sincerely asked about the south because I've lived a year of my life in a southern shithole and I know how toxic that environment can be. You haven't answered whether you are from the south and from your profile I can't see if you have been exposing yourself to any different cultures.

You really need to stop with this nonsense. I'm actually glad Mike called you out on it. There's redneck towns, racists, shitholes and idiots all over this country. Stop stereotyping unless you include my whole country.