Quote: (03-15-2012 12:09 AM)americanInEurope Wrote:
It's self destructive to get into the habit of thinking so negatively about women. It is the way it is. Adapt and move on, or not.
This is fair enough.
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And regarding your 3 reasons a lot of guys talk about shit that they like on dates instead of finding out shit that the girl likes... I don't know man. I wasn't lucky or anything, I just grew up around people who pretty much expected me to know how to talk to a girl at a young age, and had good mentors to emulate (older brothers, my dad, seniors in HS who had game, etc).
Cool.
As someone who once was among the legions of totally and utterly clueless young men that everyone in this thread is lamenting the existence of, I will now attempt to provide some perspective on how many of them became what they are.
This will be long, so if you do not care for a theory on chode origins, just keep scrolling beyond this.
I didn't grow up around a lot of people who expected me to know how to talk to a girl at a young age (it was the opposite, if anything). I've never seen my father in person, and I can count the number of times I have ever spoken to him (briefly) over the phone on two hands, with fingers to spare. I am an only child (only kid in my generation period, actually-several aunts, no first cousins), so I had no brothers. I rarely ever spoke to older guys or saw them enough to learn from them.
My only male role models were older (almost all at least two generations older, actually), solid, stable, and very traditional Jamaican (and the occasional Trinidadian) men. These were my grandparents and great-uncles. Their influence is the reason why I've accomplished as much in school as I have so far. Unlike most young black males, I had a wealth of highly educated black men within my personal life to model myself after. They had already earned Ivy League (Cornell, Brown, Harvard, etc) and similar (Oxford, Northwestern, etc) degrees. I thus never doubted myself, regardless of my race. That was a big advantage for me.
Of course, on the flipside, I learned no game from them because they grew up in an era (and in lands) where it simply wasn't as crucial (necessary, certainly, but not in nearly the same fashion). Add some conservative Jamaican christianity into the mix (they all married young, and they
all stayed married), plus the fact that most of my time was spent alone with my (well meaning, but traditional and not game-aware) mother and you have a recipe for anti-game.
I grew up with a belief in the necessity of formally establishing a relationship with a girl before ever asking her to a dance (it would be improper, after all, to engage in suggestive dancing with a random girl you've not at the bare minimum properly courted). I figured that one needed to gain the permission of a female's father (or whichever older male was around her) before dating her, that one absolutely had to be dating for sex to occur.
I spent most of my life (even up through some of my freshman year in college) believing that it was not ok to kiss on the first date. G-Manifesto speaks here of chodes who have asked women if they could kiss them-there was a time when I was in fact that chode.
I got set on the idea of marriage at 8 years old-I declared then while on another visit with my grandparents back on the island that I wanted to have a wife by 22. This made sense to me, since the only male role models I'd ever known had all been locked down at that age in very traditional, permanent relationships. I knew no other way.
I didn't start shaking any of this until I was 18 or so (I'm 20 now), and I began to realize that the romantic outlook I was bred with was better suited for 1912, not 2012. You can imagine that it takes a while to unlearn all of this, and you can imagine how someone programmed this way can very easily make the mistakes you outlined in the opening post.
You simply
cannot learn how to talk to women (especially American girls of the current generations) with a background like this. You'll end up playing catch up, as I've been doing for my entire college career thus far.
And if any of you saw me, you'd absolutely never guess I'd have such a background. Ever. I'm sure the girls were even more perplexed.
Conclusion: It is quite easy to look back now at your upbringing and the traits it gave you, and consider them unremarkable. Granted, you're not the only guy I've known to come from such a background (doesn't seem too rare in the black community, actually). It is true that you are not one of a kind in your possession of said experiences.
Trust me, however, when I say that this possession is
not a given.
There are plenty of guys (even many of the chodes you see saying stupid things to girls on dates) in the very same position I am in. Many of them (like myself in the past) will perplex you even more with their chodish nature, since they do not look the part of the chode. They'll learn (they'll have no choice, really-adapt or die), but it is entirely possible that at this point, they simply cannot know any better.
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It wasn't that hard to figure out what not to talk about with a chick. Like anything I had to feel out what worked and what didn't. It took a while. But it eventually became part of my personality because I did it a lot. I refused to sit home while other guys out there were fucking MY girls. Maybe the guys you describe need motivation. I bet you they can put a fucking turbo kit on my GT-R blindfolded, so why can't they figure out how to illicit and use information from a chick who has already agreed to date you (i.e she likes you).
Of course it "wasn't that hard". You were brought up for it. You were put on track early and often by older men with decent "game" mentalities suited for this society and this time. That is what it takes to build the type of motivation and ability to illicit/decipher the female information that you take for granted.
Like I said: none of that is a given.