[UgSlayer]

:54 "I like when they beat up on me" Bitch has got a sense of humor

[BadgerHut]

(03-16-2012 11:22 AM)UgSlayer Wrote:  

:54 "I like when they beat up on me" Bitch has got a sense of humor

Also liked "I have daddy issues"

[Giovonny]

(03-16-2012 11:22 AM)BadgerHut Wrote:  

"Now I try to go for an Image that says I am not relationship material."

Curious how you go about doing this?

The way you walk, talk, dress, carry yourself. All these things tell people what kind of person you are. Do you tell girls about your "education and career" or do you tell them about how you did drugs backstage at a rock concert? Do you talk about about how you want to have kids or do you talk about you think marriage is asham? Do you dress like a boring desk jockey or do you display more edgy style and flavor? Do you kiss her ass and make her the center of attention or do you act like you are more important then her?

Is your internal diolouge..."she is so pretty, i want to make her like me"

or, is your internal diolouge......"i'm gonna fuck this bitch"


She will be able to sense this.

These are the types of little things that will determine if she sees you as a "good boy" or a "bad boy".

[speakeasy]

These recent contributions by Giovanny and Badger are great. +1 to you both.

I feel this is the next step in my evolution. I started out as a beta, and now I think I've pretty much rid myself of most of the obvious beta traits. But now this is the next stumbling block for me. Getting girls to not see me as the "laid-back, cool guy who's interesting to talk to." I'm kind of tired of that persona and I need to change things up so I don't have to be out on multiple dates to get some action. I want to keep girls more on edge and be a bit more abrasive and unpredictable with them. I don't want to be stuck in multiple date hell, because the more dates you have to go on, the more likely something is going to fuck it up along the way. Whether it's her flaking or meeting a new guy or some other shit that kills the momentum. And besides, even if you did decide you wanted a relationship, you can always transition to that after a SNL anyway. So there's just no real reason to not prefer sex as fast as possible.

I think the idea character is a guy that mixes bad boy with an element of charm. Think of a characters like Han Solo, or if you guys were fans of the TV series Lost, that guy Sawyer. Those are great archetypes to shoot for.

[BadgerHut]

(03-16-2012 02:28 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

These recent contributions by Giovanny and Badger are great. +1 to you both.

I feel this is the next step in my evolution. I started out as extreme beta, and now I think I've pretty much rid myself of most of the obvious beta traits. But now this is the next stumbling block for me. Getting girls to not see me as the "laid-back, cool guy who's interesting to talk to." I'm kind of tired of that persona and I need to change things up so I don't have to be out on multiple dates to get some action. I want to keep girls more on edge and be a bit more abrasive and unpredictable with them. I don't want to be stuck in multiple date hell, because the more dates you have to go on, the more likely something is going to fuck it up along the way. Whether it's her flaking or meeting a new guy or some other shit that kills the momentum. And besides, even if you did decide you wanted a relationship, you can always transition to that after a SNL anyway. So there's just no real reason to not prefer sex as fast as possible.

Hey, if you're on a positive trend up, they keep doing whatever you're doing to improve, but I took note of this:

"Getting girls to not see me as the "laid-back, cool guy who's interesting to talk to.""

That's what you WANT girls to see you as - have you read "Bang?" That's basically Roosh's whole vibe MO. The problem is, you DON'T want women to see you as the guy who is "safe" and doesn't escalate.

Lots of guys can't find a way to do both and so they get the comfortable to talk to friend-zone treatment.

One solution I've already said - escalate more quickly. In particular, find ways to touch her and see how she responds. Bang contains a lot of good, subtle escalation gambits. Some of the classic PUA bits like palm-reading combine an excuse to touch each other with some low-grade emotional connection that builds the comfort necessary for sexual congress.

I know that if you still have a beta mindset, touching a girl feels like a really forward, aggressive move - but it's not. If it's unwelcome she'll silently signal so. If she doesn't, keep upping the kino. The palm read is good, as is opening a door for her and guiding her through with your hand , as is the staring contest to see if she's ready to kiss.

[speakeasy]

Actually I did buy Bang but I haven't finished it. I'm ADD as hell so I have a bad habit of not finishing books I start, but I'll sit down one day over the next week and just blow through it in one shot.

I haven't yet tried the eye staring contest. So how do you work that into the kiss? I guess you could say, "whoever wins the eye fight gets a kiss" or something like that?

[UgSlayer]

Every guy has had that problem, Speakeasy. I think the biggest thing once you reach that point of being the laid back guy who is cool to talk to is ramping up the kino early.

At first, it was kinda tough for me to do. Either I was nervous, enjoying the conversation, or just forget to do it. Once I got more comfortable with kino or would get into state, it just came naturally.

What got me over the hump was realizing it was actually riskier for me not to touch her and be sexual earlier on in the interaction. You can almost always recover from too much kino too early, but you can almost never get out of the safe guy friend zone.


Hope this helps.

[speakeasy]

(03-16-2012 03:37 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:  

Every guy has had that problem, Speakeasy. I think the biggest thing once you reach that point of being the laid back guy who is cool to talk to is ramping up the kino early.

At first, it was kinda tough for me to do. Either I was nervous, enjoying the conversation, or just forget to do it. Once I got more comfortable with kino or would get into state, it just came naturally.

What got me over the hump was realizing it was actually riskier for me not to touch her and be sexual earlier on in the interaction. You can almost always recover from too much kino too early, but you can almost never get out of the safe guy friend zone.


Hope this helps.

+1. Right on, man. Makes total sense. And that is where my game needs focus. I need to work on aggression and projection of a sexual state(at least partially through earlier kino). I have focused too much on comfort building and too much comfort and you are either friend-zoned at worst or put into "quality LTR guy" at best. It's crazy how psychologically complex game can be, isn't it?

[BadgerHut]

(03-16-2012 03:10 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Actually I did buy Bang but I haven't finished it. I'm ADD as hell so I have a bad habit of not finishing books I start, but I'll sit down one day over the next week and just blow through it in one shot.

I haven't yet tried the eye staring contest. So how do you work that into the kiss? I guess you could say, "whoever wins the eye fight gets a kiss" or something like that?

"I haven't yet tried the eye staring contest. So how do you work that into the kiss? I guess you could say, "whoever wins the eye fight gets a kiss" or something like that?"

Just finish the book. Before you go on another date. Seriously, I went on a date when I had half-finished Bang, and after I finished it I realized I could have gotten a bang had I employed some of the middle/endgame techniques.

The staring contest gives you information as to whether she's comfortable with close facial distance and eye contact.

[michelin]

Until they' re 26 - 28y old they will play the slut and prefer the bad guy.

then into the 30s they start dreaming LTR' s and settle for a less bad guy.

after the 2nd divorce (around 40 something), the nice guy reaps the leftovers.

[Gmac]

(04-20-2012 05:40 PM)michelin Wrote:  

Until they' re 26 - 28y old they will play the slut and prefer the bad guy.

then into the 30s they start dreaming LTR' s and settle for a less bad guy.

after the 2nd divorce (around 40 something), the nice guy reaps the leftovers.

This is where older gentleman game comes in handy. My dad is a pro.

[Sebastian]

It's the same for guys. when guys meet a slutty girl, they will push for the bang that night. when he meets a girl who has potential LTR character, he will be careful about escalating or banging her soon.

(03-14-2012 06:43 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Another thing is that a girl that decides a dude is an asshole but is still attracted to him will be more likely to put out quick because she knows it isn't going anywhere anyway. Whereas if she meets a good guy who she is attracted to, she may put him in the slot for LTR potential and not want to show her slutty side and make him wait before she gives it up so as not to seem too easy. I think that's some of the psychology behind it too.

I wouldn't mind working some asshole type game into my persona, but to be honest, that's just not my natural temperament.

[calex]

I don't think that there really is a choice. Either you're the provider type (she wants you because she thinks you are good for her) or the inseminate her and never see her again type (she wants you despite that she knows you are bad for her). Not that there's anything wrong with either of those, both types can do good with women.

The 'nice guy' is neither of those - he is a man who is afraid to take what he wants, who pussyfoots around, trying to make everyone happy. He's the perfect corporate drone, a good little consumer, and he always does what is expected of him. A mommy's boy, except the mommy is every woman out there, his boss, his president, and the fucking tv that tells him what to do 24/7.

I really belive that most people are born to be 'alpha', or at least close to it. If you think about it, most of us alive today come from a long line of alpha dudes - after all, they are the only ones that survived and had a chance to pass their genes on. Even if you look a couple of generations back, alpha (or greater beta, as roissy calls it) was the norm. But today, 80% of men are pathetic whimps. And it's all society's fault.

And that's why so many people do so well after getting acquainted with Game. It's not the lines, routines and openers, it's the fact that Game can help us to undo the damage that years of this fucked up monoculture that we are all living in has done to us.

[SonicOne]

I know a few guys who are stereotypical "nice guys." I actually had a few ask me after we were all drunk how I "did it" and appeared to easily have girls falling onto my dick. (And I'm rusty on the game and have an LTR currently.) I basically said what I've always said: "As the Green Day song says, Nice Guys Finish Last" and in my drunken wiseness: "never chase the pussy, always let the pussy come to you."

In seriousness though, girls like a bit of asshole, dick, mean guy attitude, especially the "laid back, independent, do what I want" guys. It's awesome and weird at same time. My LTR always comments on how "you were such an asshole when I met you, and you've mellowed a bit but you still do that shit sometimes." I reply, "Yeah and you still want me."

So many guys I know are nice guys and watch girls get swooped away from them every time! I'm like "look I'm told I'm a nice guy usually, I'll help out a friend, I'll listen if you need it, etc" but at same time girls seem to always get fucked by the badasses or at least the guys who don't seem to give a fuck. You got to balance that shit. Girls say they want the "nice romantic guy" but proof says they want to get fucked hard, they want to get blown off sometimes, and they want to be shot down once in a while...something about them seeing how lucky they are and how when the guy is nice guy, it means they get the nice guy and the hard fucking tough guy all in one package!

[SonicOne]

(04-20-2012 07:00 PM)Sebastian Wrote:  

It's the same for guys. when guys meet a slutty girl, they will push for the bang that night. when he meets a girl who has potential LTR character, he will be careful about escalating or banging her soon.

(03-14-2012 06:43 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Another thing is that a girl that decides a dude is an asshole but is still attracted to him will be more likely to put out quick because she knows it isn't going anywhere anyway. Whereas if she meets a good guy who she is attracted to, she may put him in the slot for LTR potential and not want to show her slutty side and make him wait before she gives it up so as not to seem too easy. I think that's some of the psychology behind it too.

I wouldn't mind working some asshole type game into my persona, but to be honest, that's just not my natural temperament.

The psychology is old evolutionary stuff. Before everything was easily accessible and anyone could get anything, women depended on their sexual senses to find a good partner who would give good offspring and be able to provide food, shelter, resources. I suppose being a slut then didn't even matter but I guess if the guy was biologically driven to only find women who were loyal to him (why provide everything and bust your ass for a chick whose giving out (and likely getting resources) from multiple guys) then he'd ditch the slut for a loyal piece of ass. Plus it was helpful to be able to ID your offspring and your family which as time went on became a useful way to own and control resources (i.e. royal family shit). This isn't the technical terms we use in psychology of course

Nowadays a lot of that doesn't matter. But biological drives, genetic survival, and in some cases social standings steeped in traditional ways haven't caught up.

[Samseau]

(04-20-2012 05:40 PM)michelin Wrote:  

Until they' re 26 - 28y old they will play the slut and prefer the bad guy.

then into the 30s they start dreaming LTR' s and settle for a less bad guy.

after the 2nd divorce (around 40 something), the nice guy reaps the leftovers.

So being a nice guy gets you used up whores with loose vaginas?


Sign me up!!!

[observer20]

(04-21-2012 09:15 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(04-20-2012 05:40 PM)michelin Wrote:  

Until they' re 26 - 28y old they will play the slut and prefer the bad guy.

then into the 30s they start dreaming LTR' s and settle for a less bad guy.

after the 2nd divorce (around 40 something), the nice guy reaps the leftovers.

So being a nice guy gets you used up whores with loose vaginas?


Sign me up!!!

The Nice Guy is the proverbial "Plan B". That's the whole irony about "the nice guy gets the girl in the end" - its really a huge insult when you come to think about it. He's only good enough once she's exhausted all of her other options.

The nice guys has the privilege of buying what everyone else test drove for free. They also have to deal with her baggage and hang ups as well. Talk about a raw deal, huh?

[Samseau]

(04-21-2012 09:44 AM)observer20 Wrote:  

(04-21-2012 09:15 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(04-20-2012 05:40 PM)michelin Wrote:  

Until they' re 26 - 28y old they will play the slut and prefer the bad guy.

then into the 30s they start dreaming LTR' s and settle for a less bad guy.

after the 2nd divorce (around 40 something), the nice guy reaps the leftovers.

So being a nice guy gets you used up whores with loose vaginas?


Sign me up!!!

The Nice Guy is the proverbial "Plan B". That's the whole irony about "the nice guy gets the girl in the end" - its really a huge insult when you come to think about it. He's only good enough once she's exhausted all of her other options.

The nice guys has the privilege of buying what everyone else test drove for free. They also have to deal with her baggage and hang ups as well. Talk about a raw deal, huh?

You forgot to mention:


The nice guy gets her STD's she's picked up over the years from banging 80 different men.

The alpha got to fuck her before she picked up anything, and most likely if anything was the one who gave her an the VD.

Meanwhile, the nice guy fucks a girl for the first time in 5 years and gets a present.

[Scott]

[blurb]

I don't think it's about being a "nice guy." It's about being in self-possession of yourself and having some self-respect. It's about not being a wimp. I like to be polite and civil but will stand up for myself when a woman is being rude to me.

Taking a woman back after she's ridden the cock carousel? Seriously? That's not being nice; that's being spineless with no self-respect.

Women are an idol to nice guys. They pedestalize and think too highly of women.

When you place faith in anything that's not perfect, it will always disappoint you.

This is why some have noticed an element of bitterness, cynicism, and negativity in the manosphere.

Women do not deceive us. We use women to deceive ourselves. Nice guys make them out to be goddesses when they aren't.

Guys finding out women are not as they thought they were? It's like finding out you've lived your whole life in a cult or false religion. LOL

[Basil Ransom]

(04-22-2012 11:09 PM)blurb Wrote:  

I don't think it's about being a "nice guy." It's about being in self-possession of yourself and having some self-respect. It's about not being a wimp. I like to be polite and civil but will stand up for myself when a woman is being rude to me.

I see two levels to being a 'badboy':

Tier I - Dominance: You put yourself, your dignity and your desires over those of others.
Tier II - Hyper-Dominance: You are willing to hurt others to get what you want. You are not above using violence and deception to get what you want. You tend towards malice. You can be domineering, punishing, abusive.

Of course, they exist on a spectrum, it's not an either or proposition. Any man who is hyper-dominant has already satisfied the conditions for dominance.

For attractive American women, the dominance I describe is universally appealing. But the interesting part is the Tier II, the hyper-dominant men - we're not talking about a guy who gets called an asshole just for not buying girls drinks. When girls say they like a badboy because he's confident, they're saying that they like dominant men, but not necessarily hyper-dominant men.

So is hyper-dominance attractive? Hard to say. There are definitely some women who specifically seek it out, who with the helping hand of God always end up with abusive men, and will settle for nothing less. And if it isn't there, they will get bored and leave.

My suspicion is that for most attractive women, they want a man who is capable of hyper-dominance, but doesn't necessarily choose to exercise it. He always has that dark streak simmering just underneath the surface, a darkness that she rarely gets to experience if she is well-behaved. But knowing it's there will instill her with fear, reverence and arousal. To continue feeling submissive to him, some women may need him to act on it from time to time. And as her trust of him grows, she may even desire that he go from dominant to dominating, in and out of the bedroom, if 50 Shades of Grey is any guide.