[Hooligan Harry]

(03-06-2012 10:45 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I think the point of the forum is to share experiences and insights so that we can all learn from each other in a reciprocal environment. The rep points aren't why any of us joined and they aren't redeemable for cash. Many longtime members who brought lots of value were "underrepped." That's because the process is completely arbitrary and doesn't require one member to rep another, even if he benefits from that person's contributions. Then, just as now, we all know who the real valuable members are. I think the rep system does more harm than good (in that it maintains egos), and I agree with the decision to have it removed.

What the hell are you talking about? I thought that once I clocked 50, I got free salsa lessons for a month? At 75, the secrets of non stop ketosis would finally be revealed?

Are you telling me I have been had?

[nyc]

I don't have a problem with rep points. (I plan on busting out a few choice datasheets and earning them myself.) However, partitioning the forum into two tiers based on rep points is a mistake. It would discourage young cats (like myself) from ever signing up and building a reputation, and both forums would stagnate. Stability lies in growth.

Reinstate the reputation system, but reject the idea of two forums based on rep points?

[Soma]

(03-06-2012 12:29 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Theoretically, a guy could be posting from his mom's basement under a completely fabricated persona for all I know.

Hinting at anyone in particular? I kid, I kid.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(03-06-2012 12:33 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

What the hell are you talking about? I thought that once I clocked 50, I got free salsa lessons for a month? At 75, the secrets of non stop ketosis would finally be revealed?

Are you telling me I have been had?

I'm afraid you've been misled, Mr. Harry.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(03-06-2012 12:36 PM)Soma Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 12:29 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Theoretically, a guy could be posting from his mom's basement under a completely fabricated persona for all I know.

Hinting at anyone in particular? I kid, I kid.

Haha. Wasn't that Dash Global? I remember some meme saying that about him.

[thegmanifesto]

There is some great opinions on here.

I was going to give a bunch of people +1.

Just playing.

(03-06-2012 11:42 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

If you recognize yourself in this list, don't take offense. Chances are, you're one of my favorite members on the board, and there's no ill-will intended. Plus, there's already a lot of beef in the air:

1. Guys excoriating other guys for not having sufficient rep to be making certain claims.

2. Guys openly and repeatedly complaining that, despite all their contributions, they aren't getting enough rep. They would then get a couple of courtesy points.

3. Guys giving rep just for the sake of rounding off a member to the next major digit (saw three examples of this).

4. Guys publicly asking for rep in exchange for information. "If you give me a rep point, I'll tell you."

5. I had a guy PM-ing me immediately after giving me a rep point asking me to give him one in return.

6. Guys using rep as a way to retort to disagreements. "When you have this much rep you can X."

This is so true.

I saw every single one of these happening.

Personally, I don't really care either way. I have bigger fish to fry in my life.

However, I did think it was a good way of remember who was who.

Especially when peoples names are similar.

I mean we have "Moma" and "Mofo". "Entropy" and "Entropy4".

Hard to keep them apart.

And now we have like 40 guys with "Alpha" in their name.

The rep points kind of differentiated members.

A note about Mixx:

Personally, I think the cat was under-represented by rep points.

He had what? 100?

That guy has dropped enough good knowledge for 800 points.

There are a lot of ungrateful people on here, so I can see his point of getting some props.

Keep in mind, a lot of the guys on here who help people day in and day out do it out of the kindness of their heart. It's not like people are making money.

So bottom line, I don't really care, although I think it really helped in keeping track of "who's who".

Update:

I think another benefit was that it pushed people to share info.

When they would go on a trip, they would remember things because they knew they had to come back with a Data Sheet.

I can see people getting lazy again. (Remember, this was a big problem a couple of years ago. I wrote a thread on it somewhere).

[Samseau]

Look, there needs to be some way to find the most valuable posts without having to use the search feature to sort through endless bullshit.

The rep system was an imperfect way to do that, but Roosh, you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Before, newbs to the forum could start reading and click on the rep. They could see the huge data-sheets of different countries, the guides we have to picking up women, the funny posts and philosophies. The rep system was the biggest draw to the RVF!

I also agree, however, that people took the rep system way too seriously. For god's fucking sake, rep didn't mean anything. But it was an awesome way to keep track of good posts.

How about adding the old rep system, with restrictions?

- Rep points can only be given through posts
- A post can only be repped once.

This would stop the biggest flaw, which Hencridible pointed out:

Quote:

The biggest flaw with the former rep system was that it didn't make the distinction between a good post/thread and a good member. One guy could have more points for a single thread or post than a member who has brought value consistently over time.

Bring back the old rep points ASAP, and then add the restrictions listed above. That way it will be one good post = one rep point. Want 50 rep points? Write 50 good posts.

And if you feel like old members have too many rep points, delete a bunch of the superfluous ones on each member so new guys feel like they have a chance.

The solution to the rep system was to make each rep point more valuable, not to remove the system altogether. Without the rep system, newbs to the forum won't have a fucking idea of what's going on here.

[Mr.GM]

(03-06-2012 12:39 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I think another benefit was that it pushed people to share info.

When they would go on a trip, they would remember things because they knew they had to come back with a Data Sheet.

I can see people getting lazy again.

This. That is what I fear about what might happen after disabling the reps.

[Samseau]

Why should anyone work hard to produce a quality datasheet right now?

It's just gonna get buried underneath all the spam.

[txbeachbum]

See whats happens when Roosh gets into a LTR....all hell breaks loose!!

Dump her Roosh, rapido!!

[zoom]

My rep points were my net worth. What will I do with my life now? If someone posts just for internet rep points then they probably have some self-esteem issues.

[el mechanico]

[attachment=5174]

[Timoteo]

I would be in favor of a different ranking system, administered by Roosh himself. Let him assess the value of individual members. I would think that means more than guys just randomly giving points to guys they're cool with or like, while ignoring valuable contributions of guys that may not have been here as long. From some of the responses, I can see that it had become about ego-stroking and popularity for some, rather than the contributions themselves. To an extent it's human nature to want to be recognized by peers, but I don't think such a subjective point system was a true indicator. Points start getting dished out for anything and everything. It should be about the strength of the contribution, not strictly popularity. Roosh could also find a way to link each member with threads he started or his top posts. A "like" button for individual posts is also a way for anyone to get recognition for a particular contribution. I find the "I'm mad, so I'm taking my ball and going home" outbursts to be a bit much. I'm here because I value the insights of many of you, and enjoy the stories of your experiences abroad. On occasion, we even have some healthy debates here. I have MAD respect for what many of you are doing and how you're living. But the only guy getting paid here is the man himself, and he's the one putting in the real work of maintaining the site. Writing books and traveling around is work in and of itself. If you buy his, or anyone's book and enjoy it, or are in any way helped by it, that is your reward. Roosh doesn't owe you anything else.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but if a major contributor here on the forum truly feels they're underappreciated, and really seek some form of return on their efforts, start your own thing. Put in the work and money to maintain your own site. Write and sell your own material. Short of that, I appeal to Roosh to come up with another system. Perhaps members could make recommendations to him if they come across a post or contributor that they think provides great value to the forum - that way, as individuals, we can still feel that we're recognizing our peers, with Roosh being the final arbiter.

[The_CEO]

I don't (um.. didn't) have a high rep points..3 but i was indifferent... You get that by creating data sheets which I hadn't done and generally having a boisterous personality that transmits well on a forum of guys. A personality especially, that a forum of guys like this would look up to. I've also given +1's to forum members in the past so i wasn't opposed to it.

I say this dispassionately now that the rep point system is gone, at least for the moment, but it seemed like maybe some guys got some weird validation out of their rep points, and it also turned some of the junior forum members into a groupie squad for them. I even remember someone recently mentioning that he suspected that some members where creating fake accounts in order to vote up their own reps.

There are several veteran members here who deservedly had high reps. They contributed a lot to the forum, and everyone knows who they are. I hope they will still actively participate in the forum and know that their contributions are appreciated.

As far as weeding out junk posts from now on, hopefully the star-rating system will help with that. And if you really want to commend someone for spectacular post, just reply and tell them +1 or whatever.

[thegmanifesto]

(03-06-2012 01:02 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

I would be in favor of a different ranking system, administered by Roosh himself. Let him assess the value of individual members.

So you want to go from Communism to a Dictatorship?

On another note:

Ain't no drama like RooshVforum drama, cause Rooshvforum drama don't stop.

[Basil Ransom]

(03-06-2012 11:23 AM)Soma Wrote:  

Off the top of my head, one way this could potentially work is if you get reputation points only per post and a maximum of one per post. This would avoid a person getting 20 points for posting one data sheet and someone posting continuous solid information, but not necessarily in datasheet format or length, getting none. Hence, this would be more indicative of how many useful posts the member has made rather than how popular they are.

Though the former rep system was far from perfect, it was the best thing for assessing a member's value on the forum for quickly determining how much weight to place on their words. As well, although the rep points have no inherent value I think Roosh may have underestimated their psychological importance as an incentive system for many (and not just for MiXX.) We humans are odd like that.

As with the others, I think an improvement to the rep points system, rather than its complete removal, is the best way forward.

+1. I think a 'Data Sheet Count' would be a strong alternative indicator. I didn't think the rep system was that bad, but for those who do, this is a strong candidate.

One weakness of the rep system was that if you dropped knowledge over a series of posts, rather than into one comprehensive guide (eg Tuth's first date guide), you wouldn't get as much recognition. But this weakness is just a reflection of our own human flaws. The comprehensive guide approach is much better anyway, as it makes the data more accessible and coherent.

It's possible posters would give less focus to making non-data sheet threads, but I think the effect would be small.

(03-06-2012 12:44 PM)Mr.GM Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 12:39 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I think another benefit was that it pushed people to share info.

When they would go on a trip, they would remember things because they knew they had to come back with a Data Sheet.

I can see people getting lazy again.

This. That is what I fear about what might happen after disabling the reps.

Yeah, I have a pragmatic view about it. Getting everyone to agree on what is just or fair is going to be very hard to come by. The aim of the rep system, in my eyes, is to promote the collection and sharing of good content. If it does that well, it's a good system. Respect from your peers, and the recognition thereof, is a pretty powerful motivator.

(03-06-2012 12:06 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 11:42 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 11:05 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

The Talmud has a good saying on this, "Kinat sofrim tarbeh chochma" - "Jealousy among scholars increases wisdom." One of my friends was very fond of saying this in regards to pussy, as we were always competing on who was getting more

You know shit's getting real when Jews stop dropping Talmud into the discussion.

Fuck I've been outed. I had a good run. SHABBAT SHALOM MOTHERFUCKERS

[speakeasy]

Mixx, if you're still reading this thread I think you're over-reacting a bit, my man. Cool off and then come back to at least discuss it.

I have the feeling that more underlying discontent from Mixx was welling up beneath the surface and this was just the final straw for him. He's made some comments as of late that made me think that he wanted more power and influence regarding decisions on the forum in accordance to what he has contributed and his popularity. For the last several days I felt some sort of fall-out brewing so I'm disappointed but not shocked that he split. It was like watching a rising Tony Montana that began vying for power with his boss. It felt sort of inevitable. Maybe he'll start his own game/lifestyle forum where he'll run things by his own rules. I'm sure we haven't heard the last of Mixx.

I do think that Roosh was a bit hasty in killing the rep system without at least a discussion thread just to gauge how people would react to it. Personally I don't care all that much about it, but for some personalities here, they were seen as a way of showing thanks for their contribution. Lately I'd been seeing my rep points starting to grow and there was a certain satisfaction from it, so I can imagine a guy with 50+ points must feel bare naked right now. I know that the points can't be traded for cash, but time is money and I'm sure given Mixx's high rep points and #1 post count, he has spent countless hours here over the past couple years writing valuable content and inspiring many guys here to be their best. So in a way I can see why he feels that the points were at least a token way of guys thanking him for the time he has spent. Time he could've spent making money or some other pursuit. So I at least understand where he's coming from. If his decision to leave is final, I wish him the best and thank the guy for a few years of solid contribution. I hope we hear from him again soon in one form or another.

I think Tuthmosis did a poignant job of breaking down the flaws of the rep system. If we had to start over from scratch, I'd say no rep system. But given that it's already here and has been of such importance to so many people, perhaps modifying it would've been a better solution. For example, more emphasis on unique rep points rather than a newb dropping one good data sheet and walking away with dozens. One rep point per data sheet should be the rule, though that may be technically difficult to implement in the forum's code. Just like Tuth, I have had guys email me asking for rep points as well and I think they have been taking too much prominence as of late. The forum is not a popularity contest or a way to feed one's own ego. It's a forum for guys that want to become better men and pull each other up, not fight each over who is most popular.

Edit--

Maybe one technically feasible way of making the rep system more fair is:

1) You ONLY get reps that are linked to posts made. I can't just give someone a generic rep to say, "I like this guy, he deserves a rep." The only rep button would be the little one on the bottom left of the post that includes the link.

2) You could only get one rep point per thread. That would also mean a max of one rep point per data sheet.

This wouldn't be perfect, but it would fix some of the previous rep inflation and also give people a way of acknowledging high value posts and members who contribute the most.

[Atlantic]

As a new member to this forum I remember telling my brother when I joined that this forum was different to others- you had to wait till a certain day to join and that members got rep points for putting up soild info. Sucks that it got abused bit the principle is important. Reward quaility not quanity and you have a forum well people want to go and want to contribute. I know personally that the rep system made me check my info was the best it could be and that my posts added valie to the forum.

Stop the abuse but bring back some way of rewarding people who got out of the way to post solid info up here for people they dont even know. It doesnt have to be a point system for someway of seeing who adds value and knows their stuff.

I want to be part of a group that rewards effort and knowledge. Does not have to be points but something that shows that certain people have earned respect.

[Vacancier Permanent]

How about this: let's vote as to whether we should have the rep points in place or not? A simple Yes or No vote system. Thoughts?

[thegmanifesto]

(03-06-2012 01:15 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Just like Tuth, I have had guys email me asking for rep points as well and I think they have been taking too much prominence as of late. The forum is not a popularity contest or a way to feed one's own ego. It's a forum for guys that want to become better men and pull each other up, not fight each over who is most popular.

This was a new development that I had never seen before.

Another thing that some have touched on:

There really was a way to "Game" the rep point system.

If you were the originator of the post, you got more rep points.

If you dropped a dime in the middle of the post, possibly better than the original, you didn't.

Also writing posts with "mass appeal" obviously got more rep points.

For instance, if you wrote a thread with a title like:

"How to be broke and pick up girls" - you would get like 50 rep points, because that is what a lot of guys want to hear.

Or

"How to wear t-shirts from Walmart and get Models" - a thread like that could very well get you 75 rep points in one shot.

Or

"Hotel Game and using internet dating sites" - 200 rep points for that one.

"Being Indian and Banging Blond girls" - Hell, that is probably worth 400 rep points.

Furthermore, as a person with high rep points, I can say for sure that:

Mo Rep Points, Mo Problems. It's not all it's cracked up to be.

[Fredo_Corleone]

How about I think the decision has already been made.

Maybe it should be left at that.

[Hencredible Casanova]

I had something like 54 rep points before the system got taken down, and I had only been on the forum since November 2011. So what? Right after I joined, I started dropping a lot of data about different places I've been to with pics to back it up. I didn't even know how the rep points worked then. I simply was happy to rekindle past memories and finding a community of likeminded people to share them with. There's not too many folks out there in my day-to-day who can comprehend and appreciate my experiences. I was simply happy to have a place to share my stories. That's more than enough. I've learned from others as well and have not always given feedback for posts I enjoyed. The quality of content is what kept me coming back day after day, not the race for points. Seeing good quality content inspires me to provide value in return. You can see from my profile that I drop a lot of posts on this forum. I average over 12 a day. That's what matters to me.

The rep points are truly insignificant.

[Commander Shepard]

(03-06-2012 01:21 PM)Fredo_Corleone Wrote:  

How about I think the decision has already been made.

Maybe it should be left at that.

I never knew so much emotion and investment went into how one wishes to be seen as "better" than other people online. Oh wait, didn't Mark Zuckerberg give rise to this phenomenon somewhere else?

[thegmanifesto]

(03-06-2012 01:19 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

How about this: let's vote as to whether we should have the rep points in place or not? A simple Yes or No vote system. Thoughts?

Would a guy with rep points get more "votes"?

IE a guy with 20 rep points would get 20 votes, and so on?

[Mr.GM]

(03-06-2012 01:21 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

"Being Indian and Banging Blond girls" - Hell, that is probably worth 400 rep points.