[BortimusPrime]

(02-11-2012 04:42 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(02-11-2012 04:12 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

You hit the nail on the head. He seems more fixated on defending his honor as a Southern gentleman, while transparently trying to claim the issue is about self-sufficiency. If he was really focused on teaching his daughter a lesson about taking him for granted, he wouldn't have bought her all the stuff he's destroying now.

I don't buy that. The best way to show that you canot be taken for granted is not to avoid giving at all-it is to give, but show that said giving can be taken away if certain conditions are not met.

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Plus shooting the computer is just stupid. If he's such an IT genius as he claims, he could easily wipe the HD and sell the computer on eBay to compensate himself for the $130 he was ranting about having spent on her.

You're viewing this as a business transaction, which is missing the point. The goal is to send a very clear message, not to save money.

Your idea sounds nice, but it doesn't convey the message as clearly of effectively as this does. He could give a fuck about what the computer costs-its about her learning a lesson, and this is the most impactful way to make that happen.

But this is a teenager he's dealing with. He can drop a nuclear warhead on the laptop and the girl is still going to go to her friends and say "lol OMG my dad is like, so UNFAIR!!!!1!" He seems to have more of a problem with the respect he feels owed from his daughter than he does with her sense of entitlement. He can make a statement by just taking the laptop and cellphone back and telling the daughter that she can get her own phone and computer if she gets a job and buys them herself. Publicly executing her laptop is the same kind of shit these middle eastern dictators are trying when they're losing control of their country and have basically already lost the war. It won't work.

[Excelsior]

(02-11-2012 06:53 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

But this is a teenager he's dealing with. He can drop a nuclear warhead on the laptop and the girl is still going to go to her friends and say "lol OMG my dad is like, so UNFAIR!!!!1!"

Precisely.

And as time goes on, the lesson he is teaching now will be able to sink in more effectively. Her being young is absolutely no excuse for her not to learn.

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He seems to have more of a problem with the respect he feels owed from his daughter than he does with her sense of entitlement.

This is a false dichotomy-the two are tied together.

Her disrespect was manifested within her sense of entitlement. That letter shows us a kid who felt entitled to things she didn't deserve and disrespected her family publicly for this reason.

Quote:

He can make a statement by just taking the laptop and cellphone back and telling the daughter that she can get her own phone and computer if she gets a job and buys them herself.

That isn't much of a statement. She disrespected and humiliated her family over a public medium. He responded, appropriately, over that same medium (its blown up now, but that wasn't intentional).

She needs to know that if she is going to throw her family under the bus in front of the whole world, she must be prepared to face the same action in response, and she must also know that this response will be very immediate and very final (the destruction of the computer as opposed to its mere listing on ebay accomplishes this quite effectively). Your solution would not get these particular points across very well.

Quote:

Publicly executing her laptop is the same kind of shit these middle eastern dictators are trying when they're losing control of their country and have basically already lost the war. It won't work.

Now you're just being dramatic. This man is not a middle eastern dictator and should not in anyway be analogized to one-such a comparison is patently absurd.

He is a man who has, judging from all of the evidence available, been good to his daughter. She has responsibilities, but she has in turn been able to live well. She has also had much money and effort bestowed upon her by her family (exhibit 1: her father putting time into the computer in the first place). Unlike "middle eastern dictators", this man truly loves his charges and has made a serious effort to provide for them-this is not debatable.

She, in return, blatantly disrespects her family and attempts to publicly humiliate them, all because she has to do a few chores.
She got a public response as a result, one that will make it clear to her that her actions have consequences and that the treatment she gets from her parents (the laptop, the money for the software, and all the countless other things this little princess has no doubt become accustomed to) do not come for free and can be taken away VERY suddenly and VERY finally.

That's a lesson she needed to learn. Hell, its a lesson I could have used myself, along with millions of other spoiled brats in this country.

[BortimusPrime]

I think we basically agree that the insolent girl needed to be punished, the real argument here is whether the guy is punishing her based on his raging over her defiance vs. actually trying to teach her a lesson.

The thing is, I remember back when I was a kid I had a $5/week allowance. The caveat was that if I wanted something I had to either spend my own money or wait until Christmas. If my dad had shot up my computer in high school he would have been shooting up something I built myself with components I bought with money I made working a summer job. This is where I'm coming from, and it's why my contention is this dude made his mistake early on by giving his daughter such an expensive toy in the first place. Now he's mad because her response was to show no appreciation for it and use the device to complain about him making her wipe a kitchen counter once a week.

Doesn't this sound an awful lot like the kind of guy that complains on a game forum about being friend-zoned after taking a chick out for expensive meals and doing her homework for her?

[Moma]

The guy seems like a good dad. I don't see him as overly emotional per se. The gun thing seemed over the top ONLY because I am not American and I am not used to seeing guns being toted around like that.

But apparently, guns in America are as common as having a cell phone.

Deliberating over what was said by Athlone, it seems a tactical move for the dad to send the message to his daughter over the Internet.

People nowadays have different value systems and I think him addressing her over the same medium (her soapbox, in all essence) that she used to denigrate him was a clever motion.

In some countries, they flog the children (shyt, I saw three boys getting flogged on my recent trip). Some of you in here may see that as excessive.
It is not.

Someone mentioned her unfair amount of daily duties. I'm sorry, but was I watching the same clip? She hardly had shyt to do. Wipe the counter, make her bed, make the guest bed, wake up for school?

What is unfair about that?

It's this sense of entitlement that fcuks up people as adults. Spare the rod, spoil the child.

In this case, spare the 44, spoil the brat.

[Tuthmosis]

Without getting mired in responding to each particular of Athlone's and Fisto's objections, I'd say this is the bottom line--for me anyway:

Dude basically overreacted, monumentally. His response is the act of a desperate, weak man who lost control of the situation a long time ago, as evidenced by his shortness of breath (voice cracking), resorting to the use of any kind of weapon (firearms or not), and stooping to the pettiness and theatrics of an Internet video--something a teenager would do. I'd argue half the reason this girl is acting out this much in the first place is that his quote-unquote discipline is so harsh, over-bearing, and over-reacting that he's created this situation. He's not getting respect, he's not even getting fear, he's nurturing disgust and deep-seeded disrespect. He doesn't understand the difference between real disrespect and a simple, immature insult borne from venting. If he doesn't know the difference yet, he will in a few years. This is hardly a "humiliation" of the family. If he was so concerned with the family honor, he wouldn't have further published the "dirty laundry" on the Internet. Whether he knew it was going to get 1.2 million views or not, he knew more people would see it.

There's nothing wrong with disciplining your child--even harshly. But disciplining doesn't only equal punishment. A lot of discipline is prevention. This guy is merely sowing his own crop now. He clearly created an environment built on intimidation and punishment. He's just having to repeatedly escalate the punishment to get his point across. I can only imagine the 16 years of bullshit this girl had to put up with. There are two ways to raise shitty, bratty bitches. One is excessive permissiveness (no discipline at all), the other is this shit--the other side of the spectrum.

I don't have children (that I know of; and because I know it's a matter of time before someone throws out the "you'll understand when you have kids" volley). But, I was a high-school teacher once upon a time. The reason that's one of the shittiest jobs in America is because you have almost all of the responsibilities of a parent but with a tiny fraction of the authority of one. You're a paper tiger--and the kids know it. Not only did I have to enforce rules and garner respect myself, I got the opportunity to see a lot of different parenting styles. Invariably, the tough-guy cowboy dads (this was in the Midwest) had the shittiest, ill-behaved kids. I could tell very specific stories about this one guy who acted a lot like this macho character, thinking his constant smacking-down of his son meant he was the best-behaved kid. It was the opposite. His kid was the biggest turd in the world. I had to mop up dad's mess, constantly having check his kid 24/7. I was forced to deal with this kid harshly because that's the only language he understood. After a gradual escalation, I eventually had to have that kid suspended because of his bullshit. His dad--a 6'6" beast-of-a-fireman--then threatened me with violence. I checked him like a boss and, in response, he decided to pull his kid out of school, mid-year. He hurt his kid in the process (he would probably have to repeat that grade at another school), all because he wanted to protect his pride. Another desperate, weak man who resorted to cutting his nose to spite his face.

On the other hand, the parents who fostered respect by leading with their actions and with a firm, but forgiving hand, had the smartest, coolest-ass kids. It was amazing how clear the correlations were between the fake, try-hard "alpha" dads and the real, comfortable, at-ease, natural leaders and their respective kids. I learned a lot of game indirectly from this experience. It's like the difference between the bar guys who go around picking fights with everyone (Napoleonic Complex types) and those who just move around like alpha dogs. Wise, successful leaders pick and choose their battles and know the difference between a silly, petty insult by a clearly weaker person and a fundamental challenge to their authority or reputation.

I ruled my classroom with a mix of basic rules, negotiation, and escalating punishments. I was the monarch in that classroom and they knew it. But, they also knew that they could talk to me and win privileges. What's more, I won their respect and admiration by being a dope-ass cat. They wanted to impress me. And, if they didn't, they at least wanted me on their side. All I had to do was look at a kid a certain way to get an unsolicited apology and an immediate stoppage of any misbehavior. The teachers who resorted to screaming and immediately calling parents or appealing to the principal were the ones who were the most stressed-out, tired, and disrespected by the rest of the faculty. Leaders lead. Bullies only punish.

My students, on the other hand, cried the day I announced I was leaving that job.

[Goldin Boy]

(02-10-2012 08:18 PM)MVolt Wrote:  

Good video, but I think I would have just sold the laptop. Could have recouped some of the money spent on software.

Yea but as he said, SHE is going to reimburse him for it. And his bullets lol.

If there were more fathers(or just fathers in general) there wouldn't be so many warpigs walking about with the swagger of Miss Universe contestants

[Duke Castile]

Tuth,

It sounded to me like the guy was a hard worker early on and it also seems like he's done well for himself.

I'd call that leading by example. In the end, the only thing the guy did was ground her and take her laptop away. That's not bullying.

Because he chose to give her a taste of her own medicine and dispose of it in dramatic fashion and then youtubing it, doesn't make him a bully either, he taught her a lesson.

I think you're making a lot of assumptions about the nature of this man that are unfair.

His voice cracks. So what? He was clearly exasperated and justifiably so.

He has pistols. So what? The girl probably goes shooting with her dad from time to time.

Bullies only punish. Well, the lesson here is that you can't go on the internet and tell a bunch of lies about your parents without there being repercussions (and this was the second offense). He simultaneously clarified to the people that are on her facebook what really goes on in his home regarding her responsibilities. She made it sound like she was some sort of slave labor and not a daughter, not the case AT ALL. So there WAS a lesson in the punishment.

This man was not out of line. That is his home.

[BortimusPrime]

It'd help to actually have a transcript of what the girl said on her facebook post. The father just parapharases it and mentions profanity. Whether or not the actual post was all that disrespectful or just whiny teenager exaggeration would go quite a ways in resolving whether or not this guy is overreacting.

[Gmac]

(02-10-2012 08:27 PM)canucktraveller Wrote:  

I am going to be the devils advocate and say that this wasn't the best idea.

No matter how much of a bitch his daughter is, no one deserves to have their life tossed into the media like this. I hope this leads to people realizing that anything you post on the internet can go viral and it doesn't lead to online shaming by parents to teach their kids a lesson.







There was a case not too long ago where a young black kids uncle found facebook posts about the kid acting gangster and pretending to be gang banging. The uncle posted a video on youtube of him confronting the kid and hitting with a belt that went viral. A year or so later the kid was gunned down in front of his house and the people around him said the humiliation from the video led to him trying harder to be accepted into the gang lifestyle.





Bottom line, discipline= good, shaming on the internet= bad

Shaming is the best thing that can happen to anyone. If you can't handle it, you kill yourself (good riddance). If you can handle it, you become a greater person.

As for Moma thinking guns are as common as cell phones... it all depends on where you live man. I'm sure you've got different breeds of people in Canada too that you'd prefer not to associate with...

[Samseau]

I work with children every single day.

I agree with Tuthmosis. The dude overreacted. The daughter is going to hate her father from now on, and will resent him for a long time.

She will seek to break all rules placed upon her, and as soon as she gets some freedom she'll be a crazy slut.

[Moma]

I think I'd like the parents in here to chime in on this. Because no matter how many children you work with, there is something different when it is YOUR OWN child.

Subconsciously even if you have a class, you deep down know that the ultimate responsibility for that child doesn't fall on you.

I am learning from some of you guys, Tuthmosis etc.

But I'd like some of the parents in here, El Mechanico, SingleDadSwag to chime in on this. I think Urban Nerd already co-signed this behaviour.

[Scott]

I'm also with Tuthmosis on this one. I get that this guy is trying to reach his daughter 'on her level' by posting a video on the Internet but is that something a parent should do to their child? A parent is supposed to act responsibly, rationally and set an example. If anything the father has not risen above what his daughter has done, but instead dropped to her level of creating drama and acting like an angsty teenager.

Furthermore, he actually says that it's unlikely that she'll see it anyway until after her grounding ends ('until college'?). Well then doesn't it, as a supposed act of 'Facebook parenting', make the thing entirely pointless?

I've looked on his Facebook page too and, prior to the date of him posting the video, he does seem pretty chill. But then he uses his new-found status (infamy?) as a soapbox. As if this immature manchild is some sort of parenting guru now. Check out that very, very long post by himself on his wall which is basically 'YAK YAK YAK THE OLD WAYS WERE BETTER I CAN RAISE MY KIDS HOWEVER I WANT YE HAWWW'. It's like one thousand words long. And the depressing thing is that people took the time out to read it. Fuccckkkkk.

[Cincinnatus]

Here's another one!

[WesternCancer]

Too bad its already been done, people dont understand that once a video has gone viral any attempt at replicating it is just attention whoring in its lowest form.

[Tuthmosis]

(02-13-2012 10:55 PM)MSW2007 Wrote:  

Here's another one!

What's with these yahoos and their guns? There's nothing wrong with owning and (responsibly) using firearms, but these guys remind me that a lot of people who have them have no business owning them.

This is probably the first in what's sure to be a long series of copycats. Typical American response: not dealing with the root cause (their shitty parenting) and instead looking for the easy way out (bashing the electronics). It's just like the fatties.

United States of America R.I.P.
1787-2012

[canucktraveller]

that new video is fucked up, just some dumb fuck showing off his guns

[Timoteo]

I don't think as a parent he failed by giving her a laptop in the first place. That's faulty logic. It isn't as if a basic laptop is all that expensive. You'd be hard pressed to find a teen that doesn't have one, or a home that doesn't at least have a computer that everyone uses. Have all of THOSE parents also failed in some way? And they aren't exclusively toys or luxuries either - schools assign students work they need a computer to do. The same with cellphones - kids far younger than teens have them now. Just the same, parents need to let kids know that these things do cost money, and if some responsibility isn't shown on their parts, they can be taken away. If his description of this girls "chores" is accurate, those aren't really chores at all. What he described amounts to her basically cleaning up after herself, like ANYONE should. When I was younger than this girl I was responsible for cleaning the bathroom on certain days, washing dishes on certain days, always keeping my own room clean and doing my own laundry. I also learned how to iron. It didn't seem the least bit burdensome. There's an argument that dad might have gone overboard with the gun, but that might just be about the culture he's from. I think we were seeing a parent at the end of his rope, and had tried other means of getting his message across only to be ignored. Then to top it off, his kid goes on a public forum and makes him seem like he was an abusive parent. Apparently his wife doesn't help with the discipline (I imagine princess probably runs over mom), in that she asked him to put a bullet in the laptop for her too. The display was over the top, but it's also faulty to assume it won't have an effect. Maybe public humiliation was his nuclear option after all else failed.

[BortimusPrime]

I'm going under the assumption that there's a family computer, and that the laptop is a luxury. Where I see the dude's failure is a pattern of him being the one giving out things, with the expectation that he in return be treated like the grand patriarch deserving of unconditional respect and adulation. That's why he's throwing a tantrum with his gun collection now. Here's how he could have done this w/o having to shoot up a poor defenseless computer:

Girl: "Daadddyyyy, I wanna laptop!!!"
Dad: "Then buy yourself one."
Girl: "But I don't have money."
Dad: "Well, our arrangement is you get $20 a week for polishing my gun collection, but you haven't done that, so I'm not paying you until you do."
Girl: "But it'll take, like, FOR-EVAH to get a computer at that rate!"
Dad: "Then get a job."

If the girl really wanted that laptop, she'd be getting a job and learning the lessons about responsibility that her father is claiming to want to teach her. (Or she'll learn to suck dick for money, either way she's working for it...) But I just don't think this is about the father caring about teaching his daughter responsibility, it's about him being in control when he's essentially a weak person.

[Timoteo]

If there's a generational difference between when I was a kid and now, is that when I was younger we looked forward to getting our first jobs. You had to get working papers (I think at age 14 or so) to get one of the summer jobs that were available under certain programs, or you hustled groceries or something. Most of those kinds of opportunities for young people have dried up, though some enterprising kids will still find a way to hustle (shoveling snow, cutting grass, delivering newspapers, etc.). I still can't say that someone you can't buy your kids certain things, yet still not be able to drive home the importance of working. It isn't one way or the other. In fact, a lot of parents now don't want their kids to work as teens. I never wanted for anything, but still couldn't wait to start working. Household chores are one of the ways responsibility is driven home. We keep missing the point. All he asked was some basic household chores that took minutes to complete in exchange for what he's given her. She balked and complained, so he reacted. I don't think that means he necessarily failed for giving her things. She's just a hard-headed kid. You can have two children raised in the same house, and one can be a great kid that's never given you an ounce of trouble. The other can be a total fuck-up that you have to take a stronger hand with. You've loved and raised them both the same, but they have different personalities.

I think parents that act like servants to their kids are worse than this guy. The one's that make their kid's beds, clean their rooms, do their laundry, etc. up until the time they leave for college are worse. I've seen kids like this actually order their moms around. Those are the kids that don't really respect their parents. When I got my first job, I gave my mom some of my money to contribute to the house. That's learning responsiblity, that life isn't a free ride. All he asked this kid to do was clean up a little.