[samsamsam]

(02-06-2014 07:38 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

(02-06-2014 02:08 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

^ alright well you have basically proven the point. Bringing in best and brightest (immigration) causes the country to become powerful.

If people believe they can create power without change they are insane. The whole point of power is to have an edge, ie be different and ahead

If you don't bring them in well, they are coming for you anyway ie: how the USA was formed so better to play offense.

The USA was formed by Northwestern European people. It reached the zenith of its power by being homogenous and pulling talent from a limited selection of ethnic groups. At the end of World War II and until even the 80s, America was mostly a white country..

Now america is starting to decline, at the same time it is becoming more multicultural. As it's ethnic composition mirrors the third world, so will it's economy and cultural power. Just watch.

While I agree with your general argument that bring in the BEST is helpful, even if it's a mix of people, america is bringing in the POOREST and most UNEDUCATED people in large numbers, as well as smart people.

An increasingly large divide is developing between the upper class and the lower class, as it does in most racially mixed societies around the world.

More poor, uneducated masses from the third world are not going to help the country. They are a drain on the system.

Not all immigrants are uneducated. If anything there are a lot of poorly educated non immigrants in America. I do know you mention that educated people are also immigrating.

In 2011, 76% of patents awarded to the top 10 patent-producing American universities had at least one foreign-born inventor, according to the report.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/06/2...versities/

I doubt if you didn't have immigration, that some how America would be perfect. From what I understand, the civil rights and woman's movements were active in the 1960s. I don't think immigration (especially from Mexico) was that high at that time. Nothing says without immigration, you still don't see the decline (or at least some portion of it).

Whites are not doing the greatest job of educating their children, the best and brightest (laugh) major in Woman's studies. My point is you can't make the assumption that everything would be fine if it were not for the immigrants, from a technology/major advancements America has benefited from immigrants. Feminism would still be around since that is driven by mainly white chicks.

People go to where the opportunity is. If Americans didn't think they were too good for working in the farms or fast food, maybe there would not be so many immigrants that are being criticized on this thread. It isn't their fault, white America let that happen. If anything they should be admired for the risks they took to get here. How many of us have risked our lives? Not seen our families for decades?

Let us not forget slavery. Or mistreating of factory workers during the Industrial Revolution all in the name of Capitalism that built America. These immigrants are capitalists as well - seeing an opportunity, but some how that is not ok.

I am indifferent to the matter in the sense that I cannot nor do I care to spend my efforts trying to change immigration policies in the US. But America is considered a melting pot and the rights of the minority are supposed to be protected as well.

What I do find fascinating is some of the hardcore beliefs on both sides.

EDIT: Looks like in 1942 through 1964 there was a program called "the bracero program" which brought in laborers from Mexico. So it seems during a White America (mainly because Americans were in WWII) Mexicans planted some roots in America. So, without trying to be asshole, Americans sort of helped make the problem that we are now discussing. I get it was a program and was documented vs the undocumented that the majority of this thread has been about. But you can't deny that Mexicans wen back to Mexico and spoke about their experiences it didn't prime the pump.

"Over the next two decades about 4.8 million Mexican workers came into the country and provided cheap labor to many U.S. employers. Although braceros were supposed to be hired only if an adequate number of Americans could not be found, employers preferred the foreign workers who were willing to work for lesser wages." So capitalism that built the country brought it down? Just a question.

Like I said, I accept that their are illegal immigrants here. If a fair discussion is to be had, all non native Americans are illegal immigrants here.

(02-06-2014 07:51 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

This thread O/U 15 pages - which would you take?

Over. You forgot to ask about the number of people getting banned or temp banned lol.

Quote:

The Great Ali
A veteran is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The 'United States of America', for an amount of 'up to and including my life'.

I quote Ali because he is right.

About 30 percent of the military is made up of minorities. And correct me if I am wrong (and I don't mean to overstep given the number of Vets on this board) but a lot of people do it for opportunity, some do it for tradition in their families. Some are also very poor. But you don't see a ton of wealthy people sending their sons and daughters to join the military. They do back politicians who willingly send sons and daughters to war. But not their own kids.

So a minority who is willing to give his or her last full measure of devotion for a nation that oftentimes worships the dollar more than people is a bad person?

http://www.americaspromise.org/Our-Work/...mbers.aspx