If you can "become" something without "doing" something, then it's probably collectivist drivel.

For instance, it takes no work to become a "feminist." You just have to aspire to a certain dogma or way of life.

To be an electrician, you have to put in hundreds of hours of work and study before you can be an "electrician."

With the first group, there is only how well you accept the dogma to define to what extent you are that label.

With the second group, you aren't defined by the level of dogma you believe, only the skill you have at the label. It doesn't matter how much you believe in electricity, if you can't fix a light socket, you're probably not an electirican.

Which category does MTGOW fall under?

Quote: (01-22-2015 07:16 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

If you can "become" something without "doing" something, then it's probably collectivist drivel.

For instance, it takes no work to become a "feminist." You just have to aspire to a certain dogma or way of life.

To be an electrician, you have to put in hundreds of hours of work and study before you can be an "electrician."

With the first group, there is only how well you accept the dogma to define to what extent you are that label.

With the second group, you aren't defined by the level of dogma you believe, only the skill you have at the label. It doesn't matter how much you believe in electricity, if you can't fix a light socket, you're probably not an electirican.

Which category does MTGOW fall under?

Good point - any WOW 400 pounds fatso will just say: "I'm a MGTOW now. I'll just stay put on my fat ass and stay away from those pesky women."

Now I know that there guys who call themselves MGTOW & have sufficiently high sexual value, but they are in the minority. Also Aaron Clarey is in a LTR as far as I know and interacts with women.

Sometimes guys are using the term MGTOW as someone who adheres to an alternative lifestyle, but then a Player or even PUA could be a MGTOW, who just gets laid a lot more. Anyone who is not in a married traditional relationship could be called a MGTOW!

Recently Sandman even called Leo DiCaprio a MGTOW:






When DiCaprio is counted in the same group as this guy, then something is wrong with the definition of the group:

Quote: (01-22-2015 05:49 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

I never said they were contradictions. Only that Reactionary Tree overestimates how many RVF'ers are mild MGTOW's who aren't interested in marriage or relationships. So far I don't know any existing members who've kept posting here after they got engaged, doesn't mean they've abandoned the "Red Pill" though. All the married members are guys who found RVF when they were already married.

I agree mate, I'm one of those who will get married.

Zelcorpion, I believe that is where MGTOW splits into two groups....

Regular MGTOW. Which are men who women would under normal circumstances find attractive, or even in our poisoned society find attractive, but don't want to be tied down in a long term relationship for one of many different reasons.

And "FTL MGTOW". "FTL" stands for "Forced True Loneliness". This would be the guys at Wizard Chan often times, or the My Little Pony guys. The are men and they are going their own way, but they don't have enough value to really have much choice in the matter.

Quote: (01-22-2015 05:49 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

I never said they were contradictions. Only that Reactionary Tree overestimates how many RVF'ers are mild MGTOW's who aren't interested in marriage or relationships. So far I don't know any existing members who've kept posting here after they got engaged, doesn't mean they've abandoned the "Red Pill" though. All the married members are guys who found RVF when they were already married.

Isn't FeisbookControl one who stayed? There are a small handful of others but they are not high repped or have high post counts.

Quote: (01-22-2015 08:04 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Zelcorpion, I believe that is where MGTOW splits into two groups....

Regular MGTOW. Which are men who women would under normal circumstances find attractive, or even in our poisoned society find attractive, but don't want to be tied down in a long term relationship for one of many different reasons.

And "FTL MGTOW". "FTL" stands for "Forced True Loneliness". This would be the guys at Wizard Chan often times, or the My Little Pony guys. The are men and they are going their own way, but they don't have enough value to really have much choice in the matter.

So basically Herbivore Male Light and Herbivore Male Extra-Strength?

None of it is any good. I don't know why we should even bother to recognize the minutiae between the two.

Quote: (01-22-2015 08:33 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (01-22-2015 08:04 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Zelcorpion, I believe that is where MGTOW splits into two groups....

Regular MGTOW. Which are men who women would under normal circumstances find attractive, or even in our poisoned society find attractive, but don't want to be tied down in a long term relationship for one of many different reasons.

And "FTL MGTOW". "FTL" stands for "Forced True Loneliness". This would be the guys at Wizard Chan often times, or the My Little Pony guys. The are men and they are going their own way, but they don't have enough value to really have much choice in the matter.

So basically Herbivore Male Light and Herbivore Male Extra-Strength?

None of it is any good. I don't know why we should even bother to recognize the minutiae between the two.

Nah, I see all men who don't play by the terms of our PC society as MGTOW. And I think most men in MGTOW would agree. Most every poster here is a MGTOW. Rather than working in a cubical in a soul sucking job for 45 years to make some fat harpie happy, and to produce 2.3 kids who think you are a buffoon, the men here are blazing their own path.

Whether it is to be a player, or even in a marriage, but one in which you don't subscribe to this PC nonsense and you are in charge of it and your own happiness, I see you as a MGTOW.

There are just varying degrees of how involved you want women to be in your life. Men Going Their Own Way, IMO, stands for men saying "enough of this PC nonsense that goes 100% what I want out of my life, I am going to go get what I WANT and not what society wants me to do".

Is it a bad sign for society? Yes, it is a bad sign that society is so bad that soon a majority of men will check out in one form or another. But it might be the natural cure for this PC Marxist nonsense.

Quote: (01-22-2015 05:49 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

I never said they were contradictions. Only that Reactionary Tree overestimates how many RVF'ers are mild MGTOW's who aren't interested in marriage or relationships. So far I don't know any existing members who've kept posting here after they got engaged, doesn't mean they've abandoned the "Red Pill" though. All the married members are guys who found RVF when they were already married.

I understand we have a few married guys on the forum and some of us would eventually like to get married (someday). However, most of the guys here have no plans to get married anytime soon.

MGTOW. Jesus Christ...

http://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/2...a_trigger/

Quote: (01-22-2015 08:42 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Quote: (01-22-2015 08:33 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (01-22-2015 08:04 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Zelcorpion, I believe that is where MGTOW splits into two groups....

Regular MGTOW. Which are men who women would under normal circumstances find attractive, or even in our poisoned society find attractive, but don't want to be tied down in a long term relationship for one of many different reasons.

And "FTL MGTOW". "FTL" stands for "Forced True Loneliness". This would be the guys at Wizard Chan often times, or the My Little Pony guys. The are men and they are going their own way, but they don't have enough value to really have much choice in the matter.

So basically Herbivore Male Light and Herbivore Male Extra-Strength?

None of it is any good. I don't know why we should even bother to recognize the minutiae between the two.

Nah, I see all men who don't play by the terms of our PC society as MGTOW. And I think most men in MGTOW would agree. Most every poster here is a MGTOW. Rather than working in a cubical in a soul sucking job for 45 years to make some fat harpie happy, and to produce 2.3 kids who think you are a buffoon, the men here are blazing their own path.

Whether it is to be a player, or even in a marriage, but one in which you don't subscribe to this PC nonsense and you are in charge of it and your own happiness, I see you as a MGTOW.

There are just varying degrees of how involved you want women to be in your life. Men Going Their Own Way, IMO, stands for men saying "enough of this PC nonsense that goes 100% what I want out of my life, I am going to go get what I WANT and not what society wants me to do".

Is it a bad sign for society? Yes, it is a bad sign that society is so bad that soon a majority of men will check out in one form or another. But it might be the natural cure for this PC Marxist nonsense.

That's a pretty broad label.

That includes practically every private business owner. Maybe every NFL player.

It even includes me. I'm not sure if I like that. I'd like to avoid any label that puts me in the same camp as Cardguy.

Quote: (01-22-2015 12:37 PM)Suits Wrote:  

Quote: (01-22-2015 08:42 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Quote: (01-22-2015 08:33 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (01-22-2015 08:04 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Zelcorpion, I believe that is where MGTOW splits into two groups....

Regular MGTOW. Which are men who women would under normal circumstances find attractive, or even in our poisoned society find attractive, but don't want to be tied down in a long term relationship for one of many different reasons.

And "FTL MGTOW". "FTL" stands for "Forced True Loneliness". This would be the guys at Wizard Chan often times, or the My Little Pony guys. The are men and they are going their own way, but they don't have enough value to really have much choice in the matter.

So basically Herbivore Male Light and Herbivore Male Extra-Strength?

None of it is any good. I don't know why we should even bother to recognize the minutiae between the two.

Nah, I see all men who don't play by the terms of our PC society as MGTOW. And I think most men in MGTOW would agree. Most every poster here is a MGTOW. Rather than working in a cubical in a soul sucking job for 45 years to make some fat harpie happy, and to produce 2.3 kids who think you are a buffoon, the men here are blazing their own path.

Whether it is to be a player, or even in a marriage, but one in which you don't subscribe to this PC nonsense and you are in charge of it and your own happiness, I see you as a MGTOW.

There are just varying degrees of how involved you want women to be in your life. Men Going Their Own Way, IMO, stands for men saying "enough of this PC nonsense that goes 100% what I want out of my life, I am going to go get what I WANT and not what society wants me to do".

Is it a bad sign for society? Yes, it is a bad sign that society is so bad that soon a majority of men will check out in one form or another. But it might be the natural cure for this PC Marxist nonsense.

That's a pretty broad label.

That includes practically every private business owner. Maybe every NFL player.

It even includes me. I'm not sure if I like that. I'd like to avoid any label that puts me in the same camp as Cardguy.

Well, TBH, I believe I was on the forum and the thread when the term "MGTOW" was coined and after a few days the guys there came up with the road sign symbol.

Unless they brought it from some where else, and pretended to make it up, and I don't believe that is the case. This was back in 2004.

If so, then the original idea was that men cannot beat women once women have equality. They have the majority of vote, money, degrees, and still hold the "minority status victim card". Not to mention women have a collectivist mindset, where men are individualistic. So a men's movement against women is not the answer to beating this PC feminist nonsense. It would lose.

Instead the proposal of MGTOW was born. There is no definition for what it takes to be a MGTOW. Any guy that says "if you get married or have a GF means you can't be a MGTOW" is wrong, IMO and in the creators opinion. MGTOW is simply each man swallowing the red pill then using their freedom to fit this huge wealth of knowledge into their life how they choose to do.

So if the shop owner or NFL star is red pill and doesn't buy into this feminist nonsense drivel then they would be red pill. But if they buy into this nonsense, then they are still blue pill. Despite their financial freedom, they still place themselves in a PC prison of having to appeal to other Americans and worry about what others think of them.

Some people think MGTOW are all celibate or all MGTOW are Force True Loneliness. IMO that is not true, MGTOW are men who swallowed the red pill, realize there is no going back, and live their lives the way they want, on their terms, and spread this great knowledge to other men.

At least that is how I see it and I believe the creators saw it. There are no parameters, there is no official leader, it is individual men enjoying their red pill freedom how they see fit and spreading the knowledge.

^As long as my dick gets sucked...

Quote: (01-22-2015 12:51 PM)Suits Wrote:  

^As long as my dick gets sucked...

LOL, I cheer you on in that endeavor, as all MGTOW should (though some would be assholes about it I am sure).

And the more men who do go celibate/TFL, the better the odds for you

I tried to go MGTOW for about 5 days, my sex drive wouldn't allow me any more. I can see that the outlook of women in the west is bleak, you're probably not going to find a wife here, and that leads to some depression in the average man. I don't think that these men are our complete enemies, because at least they see the issues of society and that there are significant issues with feminism and government intervention. They will be our allies when the day comes that the revolution begins.

That being said, it is against human nature to dismiss sex, as it is a basic need. Learn game, fuck the sluts here, and if you really want a wife, go travel to Russia or the Ukraine and settle there after you've made a ton of money in the west.

Quote: (01-22-2015 12:54 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

I tried to go MGTOW for about 5 days, my sex drive wouldn't allow me any more. I can see that the outlook of women in the west is bleak, you're probably not going to find a wife here, and that leads to some depression in the average man. I don't think that these men are our complete enemies, because at least they see the issues of society and that there are significant issues with feminism and government intervention. They will be our allies when the day comes that the revolution begins.

That being said, it is against human nature to dismiss sex, as it is a basic need. Learn game, fuck the sluts here, and if you really want a wife, go travel to Russia or the Ukraine and settle there after you've made a ton of money in the west.

MGTOW are not against sex in the least. And if one tells you that, he is completely wrong.

With that said, you can go a long time without sex, you just have to fill your life with other things/priorities/goals. To each their own, enjoy your life and the freedoms other men died to give us.

The reaction of some of the MGTOWs to criticism of their movement pretty much shows you just how much they are "going their own way." It seems that many of them have made MGTOW part of their identities. If they were men just going their own way and doing their own things, then why would they care so much about what people think of them?

@Suits: Don't you wear fedoras casually?

That puts you in the same camp as Cardguy.

Quote: (01-22-2015 08:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (01-22-2015 05:49 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

I never said they were contradictions. Only that Reactionary Tree overestimates how many RVF'ers are mild MGTOW's who aren't interested in marriage or relationships. So far I don't know any existing members who've kept posting here after they got engaged, doesn't mean they've abandoned the "Red Pill" though. All the married members are guys who found RVF when they were already married.

Isn't FeisbookControl one who stayed? There are a small handful of others but they are not high repped or have high post counts.

Pretty sure he was already married. He hasn't been a member for that long.

Quote: (01-22-2015 09:55 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

@Suits: Don't you wear fedoras casually?

That puts you in the same camp as Cardguy.

Quote: (01-22-2015 08:09 PM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  

The reaction of some of the MGTOWs to criticism of their movement pretty much shows you just how much they are "going their own way." It seems that many of them have made MGTOW part of their identities. If they were men just going their own way and doing their own things, then why would they care so much about what people think of them?

IMO, the true MGTOW don't personally care. I know I sure don't, I have a busy life and my own goals and plans and I don't care what other people think because I don't want to be like them.

But I do care to hear MGTOW get a bad rap, because it is more of male shaming for not buying into this PC nonsense. I don't think most here are doing that, I think most here are just not aware that MGTOW does not mean celibacy nor does it mean avoiding relationships with women. It simply means red pill living. And the so called MGTOW who claim it does mean celibacy or avoiding all relationships with women are completely wrong.

If you identify as a MGTOW you are not one.

Quote: (01-23-2015 04:15 AM)Glaucon Wrote:  

If you identify as a MGTOW you are not one.

Not at all. Like I said, I am pretty sure I was on the forum when the idea was created. There were only a handful of us there.

MGTOW isn't some organized movement. It is an individual movement saying "no" to this PC feminist nonsense. But you are still a MGTOW.

Some hilarious shit in here: http://www.mgtow.com/faq/

I'm not a MGTOW. It seems like they are trying their damnedest to lump us in with them though.

I hope all of these MGTOW guys get booted from the forum. Don't they have their own forums to go to?

Quote: (01-23-2015 04:27 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Some hilarious shit in here: http://www.mgtow.com/faq/

I'm not a MGTOW. It seems like they are trying their damnedest to lump us in with them though.

I hope all of these MGTOW guys get booted from the forum. Don't they have their own forums to go to?

By the original definition every red pill man is a MGTOW. Even if they don't identify as one. Maybe someone has tried to hijack the movement and make it about celibacy. But that is not the concept.

If so, that is sad, because MGTOW is starting to pick up steam and help spread the red pill of knowledge to men out there.

Quote: (01-22-2015 08:04 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Zelcorpion, I believe that is where MGTOW splits into two groups....

Regular MGTOW. Which are men who women would under normal circumstances find attractive, or even in our poisoned society find attractive, but don't want to be tied down in a long term relationship for one of many different reasons.

And "FTL MGTOW". "FTL" stands for "Forced True Loneliness". This would be the guys at Wizard Chan often times, or the My Little Pony guys. The are men and they are going their own way, but they don't have enough value to really have much choice in the matter.

Yeah, MGTOW is a pretty loose group.

I mean staying single in your 30s and 40s to travel the world fucking girls seems to be similar. A lot of us are opting out of a system of marriage and shitty 9-5 jobs.

I'd never self-identify as one though. I've checked out MGTOW forums in the past and most of the loudest ones seem like they're just coming up with an excuse for never getting laid.

It's also a weird thing to talk about. I mean if you have no interest in women or marriage why are you talking about it online. Shouldn't they be moving on in their lives.

Quote: (01-23-2015 04:35 AM)Hedonistic Traveler Wrote:  

Quote: (01-22-2015 08:04 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Zelcorpion, I believe that is where MGTOW splits into two groups....

Regular MGTOW. Which are men who women would under normal circumstances find attractive, or even in our poisoned society find attractive, but don't want to be tied down in a long term relationship for one of many different reasons.

And "FTL MGTOW". "FTL" stands for "Forced True Loneliness". This would be the guys at Wizard Chan often times, or the My Little Pony guys. The are men and they are going their own way, but they don't have enough value to really have much choice in the matter.

That's what I always thought MGTOW was.

I mean staying single in your 30s and 40s to travel the world fucking girls seems to be similar. A lot of us are opting out of a system of marriage and shitty 9-5 jobs.

I'd never self-identify as one though. I've checked out MGTOW forums in the past and most of the loudest ones seem like they're just coming up with an excuse for never getting laid.

It's also a weird thing to talk about. I mean if you have no interest in women or marriage why are you talking about it online. Shouldn't they be moving on in their lives.

Oh, I never go on the MGTOW forums. I regard this forum as the best forum on the internet and pretty much just stick to this forum. So I don't know where the movement is going. If there are some fat loser celibate men who are pissed off about being lazy and not getting laid leading the charge, well then that sucks. Because they will kill off the red pill.

If this is the case, I wish I had the time and energy to go tell those lazy men to shut the hell up and to preach for men to find quality women, not to avoid all women. That they are ruining the red pill movement by being lazy wankers who are a caricature of a true MGTOW.

Yes, when this was created over 10 years ago, the main purpose was for men to find foreign women, because USA women were considered bottom of the barrel. It was not about avoiding all women as a prerequisite. I hate to hear that these losers are hijacking what was a great idea.

Sounds like I found the best home here with the true red pill men who strive everyday to make themselves better and smarter. Props to the Roosh posters!