[infowarrior1]

A clash of personalities between Bernard Chapin :

And Barbarosssaaa(prominent MGTOW personality):

one advocates shrinking the government and right-wing libertarian parties as well as countering cultural marxism another focuses on female nature and the root cause of feminism while at the same time dismissing cultural marxism as a conspiracy theory.


Here is Aurini's video on the clash of a MGTOW dust up

There appears to be a rift between MGTOW and AvFM. Caused by a battle over the definition of MGTOW.


Here is the MGTOW side of the argument:

The AVFM side:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-polit...vs-pigtow/


Drama in the manosphere. Here we go.

[SamuelBRoberts]

I like the ideas of MGTOW, but every person I know who publicly identifies himself as one is a screaming sissy.

[godfather dust]

Can you summarize a little bit about what is said in these videos? I'm not into the MGTOW movement so don't want to watch them without some idea of what they're about because time is money. If they sound like something worth watching I'll check them out.

[Roosh]

(01-20-2015 06:43 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

I like the ideas of MGTOW, but every person I know who publicly identifies himself as one is a screaming sissy.

Yeah for "red pill" guys they sure are blind to the effectiveness of game.

[Surreyman]

It was always a very vaguely defined 'movement'.

I'm sure most men who fit the description have never heard the phrase.

[Felix88]

The only MGTOW channel i listen to is sandman, since he is originally from Eastern Europe, his takes on thing is more interesting, also good for learning graphical works.

The other is cardguy of course.

[SamuelBRoberts]

Quote:

Yeah for "red pill" guys they sure are blind to the effectiveness of game.

That's a big part of it. They're just so incredibly negative about everything, game most of all. I think it's just an innate part of their personalities.

I really think that I could wave a magic wand and give them each a ten million dollar bank account, the body of Michael Phelps and a harem of supermodel girlfriends, and they wouldn't be a single jot happier than they are now.

[godfather dust]

The thing about MGTOW is they have put up a white flag. Which is for pussies.

[TravelerKai]

(01-20-2015 06:54 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 06:43 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

I like the ideas of MGTOW, but every person I know who publicly identifies himself as one is a screaming sissy.

Yeah for "red pill" guys they sure are blind to the effectiveness of game.

This is my biggest beef with these guys. Half or more of them are game denialists. The rest are lazy and don't care about self improvement. Anytime you call them out they vehemently deny it or attempt to accuse you of being a sleazy person or a disgusting pua that lies to women. As if all men that use game lie to bitches automatically.

I don't know how they get along. Many are like cats attempting to stay associated with each other in some strange way. The ones that ridicule the MRA guys pick on them for trying to change things. One thing I respect MRA types for is at least they do things. Many mgtow types are lazy as hell.

Any mgtow here that hate it everytime I say something bad about your kind. Tough nuts. I don't care what you think. You are just one of many and you probably should stop considering yourself one since you are different.

[Pontifex Maximus]

I see this whole scheme as a Monopoly game.

Government: Banker

Feminists: The little sister who doesn't play by the rules and coaxed the banker into skewing it into her favor.

Betas: Those who are still rolling the dice and buying houses. They systematically get $200 a lap, while the feminists secretly get more.

Omegas: Playing some other game.

MGTOWS: Already realized the scam. Keep finding ways to stay in "Jail" so they can pretend they aren't playing. Not participating in the system but bound by the system.

Us: Already realized the scam. Finding the optimum rolling technique to land on "Free Parking" every lap.

Conclusion: MGTOWs only need to get 10 squares to catch up. Roll the dice and let the fates decide.

[Deuce Anna Half]

(01-20-2015 08:36 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 06:54 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 06:43 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

I like the ideas of MGTOW, but every person I know who publicly identifies himself as one is a screaming sissy.

Yeah for "red pill" guys they sure are blind to the effectiveness of game.

This is my biggest beef with these guys. Half or more of them are game denialists. The rest are lazy and don't care about self improvement. Anytime you call them out they vehemently deny it or attempt to accuse you of being a sleazy person or a disgusting pua that lies to women. As if all men that use game lie to bitches automatically.

I don't know how they get along. Many are like cats attempting to stay associated with each other in some strange way. The ones that ridicule the MRA guys pick on them for trying to change things. One thing I respect MRA types for is at least they do things. Many mgtow types are lazy as hell.

Any mgtow here that hate it everytime I say something bad about your kind. Tough nuts. I don't care what you think. You are just one of many and you probably should stop considering yourself one since you are different.

Same here. Many self-proclaimed MGTOWs strike me as sore losers, they'd rather circle-jerk about how they don't want pussy and how women are the root of all evil. And then try to talk shit about the guys who know game and can actually get pussy because they "do what women want".

They're the same omega incels they were before they found out about redpill shit, they just have an excuse for not getting laid now.

[Kizman]

I might be confused here, but I always thought MGTOW was just males that avoid marriage and LTR's but can still live the bachelor lifestyle.... Or am I mixing it up that definition with something else?

[Felix88]

^I heard there is something called TFL and they are often got mixed up with MGTOW.

Personally I think MGTOW is kind of a oxymoron since a man have to cave his own path anyway whether he likes it or not.

[Suits]

(01-20-2015 09:21 PM)Kizman Wrote:  

I might be confused here, but I always thought MGTOW was just males that avoid marriage and LTR's but can still live the bachelor lifestyle.... Or am I mixing it up that definition with something else?

MGTOW exist under the belief that a lot of financial expenditure (and therefore a lot of income earning) goes to attempting to impress women/get laid.

Therefore, they "drop out" of the system, and try to minimize their lifestyle to be as cost effective as possible. They actively refuse to put on appearances, get a tiny apartment and buy only what they need to live day to day.

This is because they don't want to be yet another guy, toiling away, hoping that if they work hard enough, they'll eventually get some pussy.

These guys live under the presumption that trying to get pussy just isn't worth it and try to live their lives with women out of the picture altogether.

This would be Cardguy if he didn't have his parent's money and therefore couldn't afford to hire high end hookers, because he's unambitious and works a minimum wage job, while "being an work class expert in magic." Sure.

They also categorically reject learning game, because they don't like the idea of having to "work" for women in any way.

I actually am all for minimizing lifestyles and not working your ass off to be the man that can give women every stupid thing they think they need.

However, the real expense in life come from not having a enough room between your income each month and your necessity spending.

For example, having a bigger apartment than you necessarily need or spending a big part of your income on cars.

The reality, is everything you need to seem well adjusted and get laid doesn't real cost that much.

You don't need an impressive, big living space to get laid. You just need a small apartment. All the better if it is beautifully appointed, because what costs a lot of money is not the one time purchases on some tasteful art or a nice showerhead, but rather paying the large portion of your salary on rent.

If these suckers wanted to, they'd be able to minimize their lifestyles and could still get laid on the regular, if they bothered to learn any game at all.

They are omegas. Even a beta has a sex drive that will convince him that dropping out completely is not an option.

[runsonmagic]

I used to think I'd be MGTOW were it not for my crippling sex addiction, but now that I don't feel as strong a need there, I'm still not like those guys.

[infowarrior1]

(01-20-2015 08:36 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 06:54 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 06:43 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

I like the ideas of MGTOW, but every person I know who publicly identifies himself as one is a screaming sissy.

Yeah for "red pill" guys they sure are blind to the effectiveness of game.

This is my biggest beef with these guys. Half or more of them are game denialists. The rest are lazy and don't care about self improvement. Anytime you call them out they vehemently deny it or attempt to accuse you of being a sleazy person or a disgusting pua that lies to women. As if all men that use game lie to bitches automatically.

I don't know how they get along. Many are like cats attempting to stay associated with each other in some strange way. The ones that ridicule the MRA guys pick on them for trying to change things. One thing I respect MRA types for is at least they do things. Many mgtow types are lazy as hell.

Any mgtow here that hate it everytime I say something bad about your kind. Tough nuts. I don't care what you think. You are just one of many and you probably should stop considering yourself one since you are different.

I may be classified as mgtow. But I disown the screaming pussies who call themselves mgtow.

[infowarrior1]

(01-20-2015 06:45 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  

Can you summarize a little bit about what is said in these videos? I'm not into the MGTOW movement so don't want to watch them without some idea of what they're about because time is money. If they sound like something worth watching I'll check them out.

MGTOW summed up:

Quote:

MGTOW Manifesto
MEN GOING THEIR OWN WAY (MGTOW)

The goal is to instill masculinity in men, femininity in women, and work toward limited government!

By instilling masculinity in men, we make men self-reliant, proud, and independent.

By instilling femininity in women, we make them nurturing, supporting, and responsible.

By working for a limited government, we are working for freedom and justice.

Women having "other qualities" is not interesting to men because we don't need them! Femininity will be the price women pay for enjoying masculinity in men!

This is the aim of "Men Going Their Own Way".

By holding this point of view, we are helping other men and, more importantly, we are helping boys grow up to become men.

This goal is to take away everyone's "right" to vote on other people's affairs thus rendering it impossible for political organisms and ideologies to impose their personal will on everyone else. It is not about reinstalling patriarchy or revoking female voting rights or making socialism illegal. It might have this as a side effect - but not directly and not as a political ideology. Only the future will show what happens and by going our own way we are preparing men and boys for that future.

It is important for men to have a practical approach to implementing our strategies.

PRIME STRATEGIES FOR ACHIEVING OUR GOALS

We have 3 main strategies:

1. Instilling masculinity in men by:

- Demanding respect for men
- Serving as good male role models
- Living independent lives
- Fighting chivalry

2. Instilling femininity in women

- We will hold women equally accountable to men and ignore and shun those who refuse to take any responsibility for their own circumstances. Thus we induce women to take a complementary position with men instead of a competitive position, as is now the case.

Feminine qualities we want from women:
- Nurturing
- Supportive
- Responsibility
- Respectfulness
- Honesty

3. Limited government

In order to be independent of society, and live within it, while at the same time work for limiting governmental influence upon our daily lives, men will:
- Go Their Own Way
- Support other men
- Legally reduce any taxpaying
- Truthfully act out any duties in accordance with their conscience
- Use any rights to the benefit of other men as well as themselves


It is those 3 strategies that come together in one.

MEN GOING THEIR OWN WAY

This is the logo:

Link:http://no-maam.blogspot.com.au/2001/02/mgtow-manifesto.html
This is the old MGTOW manifesto and its sum.


As to the content of the videos. Bernard Chapin is accusing barbar of denying the role of the left is feminism as well as being sneaky about his real beliefs. While bar bar tells Bernard that he is missing the point and that the root of feminism is female biology that is that female biology is feminist also he seemed to have hung around the comment sections in an alternate account mocking Bernard for his Macho BS(Keeping your word and being honorable) as well as talking about making videos that expose Chapin for what he is.

And Ayam Sirias extolling the MGTOW community as the last male space. While AVFM compromised by letting women in on the action which subsequently led to a slow ejection of many former male members that provided excellent content

[Cattle Rustler]

MGTOWs are attention whores.

Real men who go their own way do so without realizing that they went MGTOW.

[Felix88]

I still think sandman said it best, or may be I just like the pictures he chose for his videos.

I don't know why the interests in mgtow all of sudden, but then I don't really understand the situation in the anglosphere.

[Old Fritz]

(01-20-2015 06:54 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 06:43 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

I like the ideas of MGTOW, but every person I know who publicly identifies himself as one is a screaming sissy.

Yeah for "red pill" guys they sure are blind to the effectiveness of game.

The few MGTOW men I've met still go for pussy but they have no interest in seriously dating.

I'm not sure what kind of MGTOW men you guys are seeing.

[Cattle Rustler]

^^^Cardguy.

[TigerMandingo]

delete

[GeroMeroHero]

It sounds like there is not set definition... that's not good

[SamuelBRoberts]

I'm not familiar with that forum, but whenever I see someone who calls himself a MGTOW on a blog or anywhere else he's always ranting about how horrible women everywhere are, how he hates women and society, and it's everybody else's fault that his life is miserable. They're just very unpleasant people to be around.

Here's an example: Paul Elam, a guy I know many on this forum don't really like, wrote a book on MGTOW. MGTOWers everywhere started giving it one-star reviews filled with exclamation points and shrieking. Just read a few of these.

"As a MGTOW since 1994, I can say that from the actions I've witnessed from Paul Elam, he is no MGTOW. This man tried to make himself an authority on the subject of MGTOW without understanding it's core principals. The MGTOW community tried to help this man and educate him in the way of MGTOW only to be met by a wall of arrogance and self importance. In his arrogance Paul Elam went as far as to make a video where he literally gives the entire MGTOW community the finger for trying to correct his misunderstandings and continues to mock them to this day ! ! In my personal opinion Paul Elam's only interest in this book is money. If you want to know about MGTOW, there are many great MGTOW's on YouTube for free. See; barbar (Barbarossa) , ThinkingApe-TV , Mayor of MGTOWN, Sandman and many others. The real MGTOW community will be happy to assist you in the understanding of MGTOW."

He literally gives them the finger! He mocks them to this day ! !

No matter how close to them I am ideologically, I want nothing to do with these people.

[Snowplow]

I used to go by (redacted) on here. But I never gave up and threw in the towel. I was constantly improving myself. I still gamed girls. I did my own thing. I like what the idea is, but lately it is sounding more for quitters and wusses. Thankfully we had a chance to change our user names.